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Student loan forgiveness act 2012

metal

 Rep. Hansen Clarke (D) of Michigan is proposing a Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. It wouldn't wipe away all student debt, but would forgive loan balances remaining for Americans who have made payments equal to 10 percent of their discretionary income for 10 years (the typical payback period for student debts).

the petition

 
Apr 26, 12 5:13 pm
metal

This with more jobs would be a great thing.

Apr 26, 12 5:15 pm  · 
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Careful what you wish for.  Forgiven loans typically considered as taxable income by the IRS (generating a 1099-C form).  If the fine print is neglected then you might end up with an unpleasant surprise on April 15, yo!

Apr 26, 12 5:22 pm  · 
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metal

oh word,
but how much is that tax compared to the size of the loan?

Apr 26, 12 6:12 pm  · 
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i r giv up

depends on your tax bracket, but try out a $100,000 loan forgiven at the 28% bracket (which is where a 100,000 extra income would put an architect earning anything below 78K)....

yeah.... this could potentially put you into the IRS's pocket for a few years.

Apr 26, 12 9:08 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't support this...

Apr 26, 12 11:40 pm  · 
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Like I said, it's all in the fine print.  So be careful what you wish for.

But that's a relatively minor detail.  Another issue to consider is that if the government is forgiving debts that means the taxpayer is ultimately picking up the tab.  In other words, those young architects who do manage to get a job (and make the payments on their own loans) are also subsidizing (via their income taxes) the educations of those students who couldn't get jobs (and pay their loans).  Something of a double hit.  Doesn't sound very fair does it?

Yo!

Apr 27, 12 9:34 am  · 
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Rusty!

"Doesn't sound very fair does it?"

Agreed. We should put the unemployed in debtor jails. Perhaps build some goulags in Alaska's north.

Apr 27, 12 10:13 am  · 
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stone

Well, I think the 'fairness' point Handsome was trying to make is that student loan debt -- like all debt -- involves an obligation that the borrower must consider and accept BEFORE taking the money. However, unlike a car or a house, an education cannot be 'repossessed' by the lender -- meaning, the borrower in default will have the benefit of that education for the rest of his/her life. That is why the existing regs don't allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Consider also the potential impact of debt forgiveness on wages in the profession. If you have two equally well qualified candidates -- one with $100k in ongoing debt and the other benefiting from substantial debt forgiveness -- which candidate's going to be willing to work for the lower wage? I'm truly sympathetic to the ongoing crisis associated with student debt in the profession. However, I'm not totally convinced this solution won't have lots of unintended consequences.

Apr 27, 12 10:39 am  · 
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Rusty!

"I'm not totally convinced this solution won't have lots of unintended consequences"

Isn't this how this mess originally got started? Federal gov. wanted to ensure equal access to education. Much lobbying ensued and the end result was not cheaper tuition but guaranteed loans.

Risk free loans? Every banker's wet dream. Heck, every university dean's wet dream.

Apr 27, 12 10:53 am  · 
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shellarchitect

forgiving student loans would be great for those of us who are done with school but I think would wuickly become a disaster for the following students.  However, I also think that the main reason tuition costs have raisen so rapidly and so high is that people are able to borrow whatever amount is needed to cover the costs.  When there is a limit to the market costs will at least stop increasing.

By the same token medical care costs have exploded for really every procedure except those not covered by insurance, breast implants, lasik, etc.

There are a lot of good reasons to oppose this bill, personally I think Hansen Clark is the lowest of the low as far as politicians go, I live near his district and this isn't the first of his attempts are populist econmonics.  Worrying about potential taxes seems like a very minor concern

Apr 27, 12 11:03 am  · 
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rationalist

I think this would be amazing, but needs to be a part of a larger program which would:

1) limit costs for current/future students

2) provide loan counseling for future students in high schools, before/as they are making their college decisions (instead of after they're on the college campus and have already signed up)

3) provide forgiveness that has limits, similar to the way the first-time homebuyer credit worked.

This way, we could tackle student loan debt as a whole issue, and prevent the situation shuelimi describes. It's important to aknowledge that the issue here is that educational costs are out of scale for most people's economic situations, and find a way to bring that in line as well as provide relief to those who have gotten caught in the educational/financial shitstorm of the past decade or two. Tackling one issue without the other is indeed unfair, and addressing both comprehensively is necessary.

Apr 27, 12 12:25 pm  · 
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3tk

funny, the feds were "taking back" some student loans off banks' books as part of TARP's "toxic assets."

IBR program provides forgiveness after 25.

i'd rather increase forgiveness to public sector workers, peace corps, americorps, teach for america, etc before giving out wholesale forgiveness; maybe tacking on volunteer/public service as part of forgiveness.

 

Apr 27, 12 1:14 pm  · 
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Potential taxes are a relatively minor detail in this discussion but they could easily be a major concern in practice.  Imagine, just for example's sake, that you are presently carrying $60K in student debt having graduated sometime in the past decade.  You've haven't found full-time work but you have managed some part-time gigs and having been grinding out a living on about $12K/year.  The good news is that you are now eligible to have that debt forgiven, you promptly file the paperwork and hallelujah a couple months later you are in the clear.  Except the Dept of Ed sends a 1099-C to the IRS and next April you shit your pants when you realize that the $60K of forgiven debt counts as income and you are kicked up a couple of tax brackets (while still only making $12K cash in pocket).  You are suddenly expected to cut a check for something like $14K (approx. 20% of your total income of $12K+$60K=$72K) by April 15th.  Not a minor concern then.  That is how debt forgiveness typically works.

With respect to debtor's jails, they are already here.  I recently posted this elsewhere but will add it here too, via the Daily Mail, Breast cancer survivor handcuffed and thrown in jail over a mistaken $280 medical bill as 'debtor's prisons' return to the U.S  despite debtors' prisons being outlawed, it is becoming increasingly common for debt collection agencies to take advantage of contempt of court laws to have people jailed on account of outstanding debts.

Yo!

Apr 27, 12 1:28 pm  · 
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Instead of forgiving student loans, I'd rather see a scheme where the government subsidizes your relocation and rent in lieu of forgiving your student loan. This would allow otherwise broke people with job skills to relocate to places where jobs exist, lower unemployment and generate more federal tax revenue.

For instance, if you owe $30,000, they would subsidize your relocation plus a stipend for the remainder of your balance— $5000 for relocation and interview expenses plus ~31 months of $800 for a living stipend. You could put stipulations on the program like they must continue to make timely loan payments and only receive the stipend as long as they're employed full-time.

This would cause massive housing shortages that would surely jump start the housing industry and it would avoid the government bailing out banks for properties sitting otherwise empty.

This entirely assumes a socialistic ride-on-coat-tails proposal that would indirectly help people pay off their loans and strengthen the economies of America's wealth-producing cities.

Apr 27, 12 2:45 pm  · 
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Rusty!

So james, you want a law passed that would cater to your very specific needs?

Apr 27, 12 3:13 pm  · 
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So james, you want a law passed that would cater to your very specific needs?

 

My needs aren't very specific, actually.

Labor mobility is a huge hurdle found globally right now.

When we take of waste, we generally think of an object, like a head of lettuce, was used 'inappropriately' or otherwise lost to neglect— just like leaving the lights on in an empty room, human capital can be also be wasted.

The problem with student loan forgiveness that I see is not necessarily along the lines of a general socialist-intervention-versus-laissez-faire-capitalism discussion. But forgiving the debts of someone does not necessarily improve their economic output,  access to jobs or living situation. For most people, 67% percent of bachelor degree holders borrowed with an average debt amount of $23,227. That's approximately $300 a month in payments. For people who make well above minimum wage, say $14 an hour, $300 a month hurts but it's not life threatening. For those who make less, having to pay $300 a month is devastating.

By canceling someone's debt, it doesn't do anything but make their shit job more bearable. If we want people to pay their debts, we have to increase workforce and labor mobility so those with educations and skillsets can be utilized to their full economic and productive extent.

Apr 27, 12 5:45 pm  · 
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metal

Yes James, that's what I meant by saying a bill like this with job growth would be a great thing. 

But there is not enough job growth or legitimate compensation in our field.
If you owe money to the IRS you can pay in installments, paying off $14k in a few years vs $80k until the end of time.

And if you relocated on gov't pay who is to say you will get a job? In any situation we are still going to wait for more jobs to appear until wealth is created.  if there is any profession out there that needs this its ours. Ancillary items can follow suit. Somebody messed up and it wasn't us. 

Apr 27, 12 8:57 pm  · 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can deduct moving expenses if you've moved for a job from your tax return. I'm not so sure about this one, but I think you can also deduct expenses you've incurred looking for work. Anyone know for sure?

May or may not be helpful depending on your own individual tax situation.

Apr 27, 12 9:18 pm  · 
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3tk

Both are correct, though I believe you are limited to one job search trip (with all the business expenses included), if you manage to get contract work, additional trips may count as business trips depending on the nature of the travel.

I'd rather see the fed not tax unemployment compensation before student loan forgiveness - something about implying that the more educated people in the country not being able to make sound financial decisions seems like a dangerous/irresponsible proclamation (we all knew we were in a bubble going through the late 90s right? we sure better have).  I'd have to assume our treasury bonds would lose value if the federal government went ahead and said "hey yeah our so-called-smartest folks have no understanding of economics and finance"; then again I guess wall street did just that...

 

Apr 28, 12 12:02 am  · 
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Punch84

Interesting solution to a long term problem.  I believe student loan debt will be the next bubble that'll bring us into another severe recession.  The problem with this solution though, is that it puts tax payers on the hook again for someone else's poor financial planning.  This takes the accountability out of education.  Plus, what's to say someone can't financially engineer their education?  Graduate some great schools, knowing that all you need to do is bend the truth on your income...  Good to bring this bubble to the surface, but not a very promising solution.

Apr 28, 12 11:07 am  · 
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"The problem with this solution though, is that it puts tax payers on the hook again for someone else's poor financial planning."

Yeah, that's similar to what I mentioned earlier.  Imagine a future where a young person could graduate and either A) starting working while losing large chunks of the paycheck to taxes & their own student loans or B) volunteer for the government thus avoiding taxes and having the debt written off (with the tab being picked up by those tax paying suckers who took jobs).

Considering that starting salaries are stagnant (and downright miserable in some professions such as architecture), why would anybody even want to get a job under those circumstances?

Sounds like a recipe for a Soviet style economic malaise, yo!

Apr 28, 12 12:09 pm  · 
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Tee002

Why should tax payers foot the bill for those who are financially irresponsible people? When did this country become a haven for beggars and plunderers? Nowadays, everyone feels like they are entitle to tax payer money as their grannys' treasure trove. That entitlement will bring this country down to the knee like Spain is having right now.

If politician are so generous with other people's money, increase the amount of grant. I don't care how much. It will cause less problem.

I should start thinking about moving to Canada. At least their socialist government cover citizens health insurance. And then I can say " Look these Amerikans, they don't have insurance to go to hospitol.

 

 

 

 

Apr 28, 12 1:39 pm  · 
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Rusty!

wow. this thread went to the dark side quickly. Yes, students of higher learning should be called 'financially irresponsible people' from now on. 

The tiny room that I rent in NYC costs more than my 2 bedroom apartment did (in the same area) back in '01. I guess that makes me financially irresponsible.

Education is an investment and it's going to cost something. Right now the cost is disproportionate to investment potential. There are a number of potential fixes, but screaming out 'OMG my taxes' is not one of them.

Tee002, there is a basic IQ test Canada makes you take before moving there. I suggest start studying for it now :)

 

Apr 28, 12 2:39 pm  · 
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Tee002

@Rusty Shackleford

There are a lot of students who can came out of college with relatively low debt. It is not an imperative or fashionable requirement to have tons of debt to get a degree. It is an option not a compulsory. Students does not equal irresponsible people. Financially irresponsible student is financially irresponsible person. You don't need to have stellar IQ to figure that one out.

If Education is investment, didn't these people check ROI ( return on investment) before they make investment.

Oh! yeah I don't scram MOG my taxes, because I always assume it as donation to the needy . So, I can feel better. But I prefer finical discipline to reckless spending. 

I'll repeat again " if they want to fix, increase the aid to students and the schools" What is point of giving out these astronomical amount of loan? I don't care if they increase the grant to $12,000 a year. It is worth it. It is decent amount of aid. It is much better than funding for endless wars. If a student want to spend more, they can take loan then. But please stop saying " OMG OMFG we're in hole, please help me plueazeeee.

For Cananda, as far as I concern all I need to do is to make a trip to their Consulate that I pass by almost every day. No Beggie. but thanks for your tip.

Apr 28, 12 3:15 pm  · 
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Tee002

@HandsumCa$hMoneyYo

Because of Soviet town planning legacy, people in Russia were able to have a place to for nothing in 1990s. I assume it is a good deal. I'm not sure I'll have free apartment here. May be foreclosed one in poor area. 

Sounds like a recipe for a Soviet style economic malaise, yo!

I think it is more like Greece recipe. In Greece, gov jobs were so popular that people won't even try to start a business or work for private industry. Gov essentially has become largest paycheck writer.

Job security + less stress+ insurance coverage+ union+ short hours = hallelujah what a good life! But it didn't last long though.

Apr 28, 12 3:31 pm  · 
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design

Yeah shame on those architects that bought an American dream and were ripped off. Those naughty spenders, we should punish them. The tax burden on you Tee002 will be close to nil. Its ridiculous to call those in debt irresponsible when what is happening is a legalized form of loan sharking.

Your over-blown paranoia of government is clouding your judgement on this one.

Apr 28, 12 6:36 pm  · 
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Tee002

@valet

I'm not promoting any form of loan sharking. The ones who are biggest customers of sallie mae are encouraging it. I'm suggesting to increase aid ( grant which is not require to pay back). I said " What is point of giving out these astronomical amount of loan? "

You may be too desperate to get rid of your loan. So it will probably be clouding your judgement. I think all architects should take Econ 101 to know a bit more about how economy/business & taxation works.

Yes, I'm very scary of free for all & all of nothing crowd. I'm scary of Greece scenario. I'm scary of Spain fiasco. I'm scary of Portugal misjudgement. Because the very incompetent government prove time and time again that they are totally clueless about things in life.  Financial crisis anyone? There are many many people telling them it was coming. What did they do? Nothing.

For those who want to bank on these populist politicians, go for it. Every election time, roll up their sleeves and tell the crowd " We're going there to take down these BAD people, we are going there to do great things, blurr blurr........"

Guess what? They forget little guys on street until they need ballots to stick their a** in the chair for next 2 yrs or 6 yrs.

 

Apr 28, 12 7:57 pm  · 
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design

the economy is loan sharking not the customer. Your placing blind faith in the free market economic policies that got us here in the first place, and your answer is to what exactly? Let  private companies take care of things? If this bill were a one time bail out like what all the other fat-assed companies got I don't see a problem with that other than seeing you fumbling over pocket change.

Bottom line, the self regulation of the economy begins with passing bills like this. the private sector should focus on creating jobs not robbing the banks of Americans that are trying to play by the rules.

Apr 28, 12 9:51 pm  · 
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maybe it would be better to subsidize the universities directly and leave it at that. i guess it is too socialist for usa (or harper's vision for canada even) but the current system obviously ain't working.

i can just barely remember a time when usa thought investment in education of its citizenry was worth doing.  now its like a dickens fable.

ah well, as long as that "dinosaur's lived with humans" museum is still running i guess the future is ensured. idiocracy awaits!

Apr 28, 12 10:34 pm  · 
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Punch84

@ valet

Let's not knock on free market economic policies as a whole.  After all, car sales surged at the beginning of this year.  Why?  High gas prices.  People traded in their older, less efficient cars for ones that get much better gas mileage bc it's not economical to drive a '98 Mercury Cougar anymore.  It happened 5 years ago and we got rid of Hummer...a blessing in disguise.  Ironic that we bailed out a company that rebadged the Chevy Tahoe, jacked up the price and made a killing off that product.  Can't wait to bailout the USPS next...

In regard to the original topic, it is definitely financial irresponsibility.  It's your choice to go to an Ivy league, private or state school.  The cost difference between those could be immense over 4 years.  Essentially you're taking a gamble, *hoping* that with the extra tuition cost an Ivy league education (for example) will provide you with better connections, education, job opportunities, etc, but once you graduate and are in the same pool of architects that got degrees for half price, you're both fighting for the same position. I have friend that succeeded with an Ivy league education and other that have $200K in debt, fighting for positions with graduates of much lesser known programs...but that can perform the same duties of intern architect.

Apr 28, 12 11:46 pm  · 
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Tee002

@will galloway

I think Hugo's Les Misérables might be better way to put it. We allend up doing the right things for wrong reasons or doing wrong things for right reasons.  

I'll say another controversial topic. College education is not for everyone. Not even for every college students. It sounds harsh, but it is true. 

Going college is right thing to do. Is it right reason or wrong reason for those who're not supposed to be in college?

Some people who should be in college choose not to be in college because of finical risk. Are they doing the wrong thing for right reason?

It is judgement call for individuals.

Apr 29, 12 12:12 am  · 
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x-jla

ah well, as long as that "dinosaur's lived with humans" museum is still running i guess the future is ensured. idiocracy awaits!

haha that is very true! 

 

Apr 29, 12 12:26 am  · 
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x-jla

 Debt is not a choice, it is the only chance at some hope for upward mobility.   

Apr 29, 12 12:32 am  · 
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Tee002

@jla-x

Are you saying that other people should foot the bill for those who want to have upward mobility?

Apr 29, 12 12:53 am  · 
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x-jla

we foot the bill for those who have destroyed the economy.  we pay for the roads that move the goods and consumers to the wal-mart.  We pay for the bailouts and the oil wars. 

Apr 29, 12 1:50 am  · 
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Tee002

@jla-x

yes i would rather put the whole economy in trash than footing these bills. I would not mind the consequences. Where are we going to draw red line? Compromise after compromise, when shall we say enough is enough?

Where did all these entitlements come from? Form the assumption that other countries will keep buying the printed paper called T bill? I sincerely hope that the assumption will last forever. 

After all, I'm not surprised to learn that companies like Apple keep their hundred billions dollars off-shore. It seems pretty wise decision.

Apr 29, 12 2:22 am  · 
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it isn't an entitlement, it's an investment ( isn't that the rationale behind all the entitlements apple and other corporations enjoy when they setup all those loopholes in the first place? )

better to spend time working out how to get a better return on the investment than deciding how to stop people from getting ahead without extracting sufficient pain in exchange for their good fortune to be borne in north america.

we should be investing in university and college.  we should also invest in every other sector of education from k-12.  instead there is this idea that education is for snobs.  not everyone needs go university of course, but we need to up the ante, not force everyone to drop out because rick santorum prefers his people uninformed....;-)  this whole anti-education thing has got to be one of the most self-destructive pieces of the culture wars.

Apr 29, 12 4:50 am  · 
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Wilma Buttfit

One of the reasons the economy continues to stagnant is lack of confidence - that others are making sound financial decisions, that the rules aren't going to change mid-game for some, that good decisions aren't going to be made into bad decisions and vice versa.

To compare it to a bailout - the bailouts have to be paid back if I'm not mistaken. So wouldn't getting student loans in the first place be the bailout, and a good investment for tax payers? Now you say it should be a handout? I think those petitions are for making lists of all the people who don't take their obligations seriously.  

Yes, why IS "education" so expensive? I am in a college town, why do these kids appear to have so much money yet are in so much debt? The two are related.

Apr 29, 12 9:40 am  · 
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I am in a college town, why do these kids appear to have so much money yet are in so much debt?

Tuition is only a small part of college expense— housing and transportation are huge factors as well. And unless you went to school in an urbanized city, whether it's some place as small as Ithaca or as large as Portland, personal automobile ownership is pretty much mandatory. This is especially true if you also want to work while in school.

I know that many people I went to school with had parents who invested decently in a prepaid college program and worked a job while in school— their tuition, room and board was essentially paid for. What did they use their student loans to buy? A car.

The problem with the calculations they use for fee schedules and cost-of-attendance generally grossly underestimate the cost of transportation.

For some reason, the government doesn't adequately estimate the cost of transportation across the board:

  • Average cost of transportation claimed by universities: ~$1,800
  • Average cost of transportation (per mile) claimed by the IRS: $0.55
  • Average number of miles driven as claimed by the DOT: ~12,000
  • Average cost combining the DOT and IRS: $6600
  • Average cost of driving as reported in urban planning literature: $11,500

And that $11,500 was in 2005 dollars with significantly cheaper gas— so, it's probably closer to $13,500. So, how does a university get a figure of $1,800 when the IRS/DOT is around $6600?

And the answer is not that people should not drive. Our entire economy is built on people driving, or at least moving. And public transportation really isn't a viable option for say 90% of the U.S. population. Just to compare costs of car ownership here, we have a hidden gap of living costs that range somewhere between $4,800 and $9,700 a year.

If you multiply that $4,800 by 4 years, it is surprisingly close to the same amount of money the average undergraduate is in debt.

Apr 29, 12 12:52 pm  · 
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Tee002

College education is not sole option for higher education. Take a look at Germany. They train people at different levels. Some go to university. Some decided to be at vocational training schools/technical schools. These schools also provide decent education as far as I know. They are the backbone of Germany equipment manufacturing industry.

There is also supply and demand issue. When there is so much demand for colleges, why should colleges lower their cost? It is very simple Econ 101 thing. Not a rocket science.

Those who are asking for this type of bail out decided to go to expensive schools, and didn't do the financial homework before they decided to do so.

For those who are saying it is a form of pursuing American Dream, why should we blame Wall St. fat cats then? They are pursuing American Dream too. Albeit  Rockefeller or J.P Morgan version! Let's support them enthusiastically. Yo  here is American dream at Battery Park, New York! Kettle calling pot black.

So, my last question will be what is the big difference between Wall St. bail out and (Supposedly)Student Loan bail out? The amount of money? They both said it is investment. They both are rooted in desire for individual advancement in society. They both make a bet that ROI will be great. Things go south. They both wanted other people to drag in to the mass. Seems like mirror image to me.

@J. James R.

College students are spending way more than they're supposed to! It is a fact. Not a hypothetical scenario. Frugality and Prudent are the two words they may never heard in their life too. I went to both public and private colleges for my education. I admit I'm lucky to get scholarships. But if you're good at managing your finical thing you should be able to get out school lower than $20,000. For $20,000, you don't need to get bail out form gov. Also, there are many metro areas where car is not essential thing. I'm not saying that you're supposed to be able live without a car.  There are many universities where having a car could be  a problem not a solution.

Apr 29, 12 4:52 pm  · 
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jyount10

They shouldn't give student loans to pe

Apr 29, 12 6:18 pm  · 
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jyount10

They shouldn't give people student loans to major in fields that leave you with no more marketable/profitable skills than your average hs grad. Who exactly will foot the bill for this "forgiveness"?

Apr 29, 12 6:38 pm  · 
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x-jla

I would rather have bailed out student debt than skank of america.  We all forget about the money that goes towards oil and big agriculture subsidies.  They are doing much better than students thats for sure.  Who really needs the help?  If we are going to give help, let's give it to those who need it.  If we are going to be fiscal conservatives, then lets stop all the dumb wars, subsidies, and tax breaks to big corporations.  I would be happy either way.  No one gets help or those who need it most get help, but helping the rich and bleeding the poor is not a fair option. 

   

Apr 30, 12 2:09 am  · 
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SkiSteve

Why forgive the debt when the system is broken?  We will have another trilion dollars in a few years again.  Don't forgive debt unless you can fix the system.

Apr 30, 12 11:56 am  · 
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jyount10

I think there is plenty of room to provide some relief, the banks have zero risk and zero interest in working with people to lower rates or make them more affordable. But I don't think it's fair or appropriate to forgive the loans, because that burden will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, and it's not right to saddle the guy who never had the opportunity to go to college and went to vocational school instead with that debt. I knew a lot of people in college that took out more loans than they needed to, didn't have a job, wore nice clothes and lived in nice apartments, and partied way more than they studied. That is their problem, not mine; and I have no interest in having my taxes raised on account of that.

Apr 30, 12 1:23 pm  · 
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Rusty!

"I knew a lot of people in college that took out more loans than they needed to, didn't have a job, wore nice clothes and lived in nice apartments, and partied way more than they studied."

Your anecdotal evidence is good enough for me, and should be good enough for solid policy making.

You do realize once this bubble bursts you'll be equally fucked anyways, right?

"That is their problem, not mine"

Just like people who did not buy property during the last bubble were completely unaffected by the fallout. Check.

The notion of letting your neighbor's house burn to the ground ‘because they deserved it’ is a noble pursuit of cosmic justice. Too bad you are sharing a demising wall with them.

Apr 30, 12 1:49 pm  · 
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Tee002

@Rusty Shackleford

I hope your let's print more money policy will be working very well too.

It is funny to see that people who want to support this bail out can't talk about fundamental things such as economy, taxation, monetary policy, fiscal policy, interest rate, etc. But they rather come up with I should get a slice of pie because, the Wall St. fat cats got theirs. I need to be saved because Loan sharks will bite me. I need to be save because education is such a noble thing to pursue.

Please also answer that part as well. So that we all can see your fairness.

But I don't think it's fair or appropriate to forgive the loans, because that burden will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, and it's not right to saddle the guy who never had the opportunity to go to college and went to vocational school instead with that debt.

let's fuck these poor, stupid people who just have hs diploma ,because they are too stupid to see being an opportunists is such a good thing!

Apr 30, 12 2:03 pm  · 
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Tee002

If the irresponsible people want a way out? 

How about an exchange for no credit for next 20 years?

You many not be able to buy a house. You many not be able to buy a car. You may not be able to borrow money from banks. No credit cards. FOR TWENTY YEARS!

You won't need to pay a dime for your loan debt.

I'm all in to support that kind of deal. Isn't that great deal? Other people will foot the bill for decision. All you have to do is agree to the deal. 

How bad do you want it?

 

Apr 30, 12 2:12 pm  · 
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Rusty!

"It is funny to see that people who want to support this bail out can't talk about fundamental things such as economy, taxation, monetary policy, fiscal policy, interest rate, etc."

You are seriously projecting here. 'Tragedy of the commons' should also be included in the salad of terms you just tossed out there. That one trumps 'personal responsibility' card every single time, by sheer size alone.

Having a significant portion of the population being crippled by the student loan debt is ultimately bad for the economy as a whole. The purchasing power goes down, yaddi yadda...

I get that just forgiving loans is not exactly a brilliant solution. Forgiving interest on loans would be a more sensible step. More important problem that should be solved is how do we prevent this situation from happening to the next generation of students. Right now the solution is "loan them more money".

Apr 30, 12 2:25 pm  · 
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