Israel pull out
Lebanon deploy army
Unifil help Lebanon
And we all live happily ever after...
I mean thats only 10 years guys.. the ongoing rythm has proved an israeli offensive every 10 years !
and Patrick don't u have another pic to display ? is that all u have on lately..
the same pic on all posts , and islamist fascists.. gees for a sec i thought u were the cowboy himself !
Parachute i totally agree except for this !
"Israelis speak better English than Arabs" !!! hehehe
10 years starting when? first those 4 days, then maybe the army comes in if they aren't eliminated first, then something happens and israel decides affairs haven't been sorted out, hizbollah....then maybe the 'future' gang, the syrian gang, the phalangists...
optimism keeps me going cd whore!
at least 4 now i'm feeling good about both governments accepting the "end of hostilities" by monday morning at 7:00 Beirut Time.
P.S. i don't know where they come up with shit like end the hostilities and no its different than cease fire - the first one allows u to continue killing till the political settlement !
whatever !!!!!
this is the strongest army in the world after the US ....
well ya.. that shows..lollolol guys start gathering food and water for the idf soldiers theyr starving heheheh thats a real pitty
the cease fire is already on but .. is it going to be for along time???? i wonder...
anyway .. i hope this weekend if MR olmert decide to lift his blockade.. so we can fill our cars with fuel.. i will be hitting the south area with my video cam .. and starting the humanitarian aids especially that as architect i am called to that.. we are going to start working on the mobile homes and mobile wcs and showers for the misplaced people around the southern area.. i will be bringing with me photos and videos and will be posting them on my website .. so wait for it...
"This war started because Hizbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers, and killed 6"
"don't be worry - be happy - we will end the job now it won't take much longer, you can depend on the idf."
Some of the posts we had on this thread previously...
It's a shame to see how such crap was convincing ppl , when a look at the UN resolution 1701, does not even mention anything abt the soldiers...
I went to the southerns suburbs of Beirut today...
first day of cease fire.. at 8 in the morning, was there in the afternoon after work.
The amount of destruction i saw is not compared to anything i have previously seen in my life - and i have seen many wars in Lebanon...
The whole region of the subrubs that was one of the major attack zones ... equals approximately NY area.
for the first timein my life .. i smelled destruction...
i didn't just c it, didnt't just live it.. I smelled it..
I smelled Death.. smthg i havent b4.
I smelled hatred
I smelled racism
I smelled inhumanity
I smelled weeds of anger and revenge.. smthg Israel has succeeded in creating in every one of us, even the non-lebanese that were there, or the lebanese who were NOT in Hizbollah's party, nor chiites...
I smelled victory for the ppl who proved to be loyal to their beliefs and humanity.
I smelled smoke.. that i was able just to c previously thru the balcony...
But most of all... I smelled terrorism... I smelled Israeli terrorism.. and what a smell that was.. reminding us again the years of 96 - 93 - 82 and so on... A smell no one but the zionist state can produce !
The smell that the zionist state produced the one that ET talked about.. that smell will go away ..
maybe it stinks now.. maybe it smelled racism .. hatred..but all thi swill vanish because we are a people of heart.. of love and of peace
we lived all our lives in war sometime the war of the others sometimes our war.. but every time we clean and rebuild and we will continue to do that..
the smell will vanish .. no matter what the zionist think or do that will never makes us low or shattered we will SURVIVE ..
ALL people who are human who are with peace and love and survival are invited to the birth of the new lebanon .. our lebanon lebanon of shiites .. sunnistes.. maronistes .. orthodox ...e tc..
Germany .. japan were rebuild with the work , hard work of its citizens .. we all are invited to give maybe an hour.. a day a week, a month or a year to work and to give whatever we can to help our people.. help the people of south lebanon.
we, more than anyone, Architects... you study 5 or 6 years to get your diploma.. apply it.. use your knowledge your creativity
Building communities..
building societies
developing .. our world our environment...
that is our porpose thats the lebanese way, no matter what they do to us .. we will avenge... and we will survive..
If someone would call someone 'a stinking arab' I would be offended as much for a Lebanese, Syrian, etc. Just the same I find the title of this blog racist, offending and inappropriate and the implication of the 'Jews' 'Zionists' was wrong from the beginning.
It was an act of the state of Israel.
Would you state that what the US is doing today is an act of the Christian Bastards against Iraq or the policy of the current government in the US?
It is WRONG to use racists tags, and yes much of what happened here on this list is pure bullshit.(One of th ereasons I held back so much on writing here).
While you walk around the ruins, think about it this way...
If you really want to rebuild and live a life get the troublemakers (Hezbollah) out of southern lebanon and try to keep the border a quiet one.
Chances are you won't have to rebuild again 5 years, ten years, twenty years down the road.
Stop blaming Israel all the time for everything, they are far from perfect, but look in the mirror, you guys are not saints just smoking your nargilas...
It seems the latest on the war on lebanon by the israelis is :
"The bacchus temple in Baalbeck - the roman city of the sun- has cracks due to the heavy bombing of the region" reported by lebanese french newspaper L'orient Le Jour on the 14/08/2007
Lany - at least i had the decency to say bastard zionists not bastard jews unlike some tv figures who were talking abt islamist fascists !!!!
and patrick - u can't throw ur ppl out of ur own country - just because u disagree with the people in Illinois, u dnt say u guys are not americans anymore, get out of the country !!!!
It seems that some ppl have different plans for Lebanon -
it's always one of both :
Syrian dominance backed by the U.S.
Isralei invasion backed by the U.S.
i guess both democrats and republicans have their respective share of the pie !
While we get to have all the fun in watching the ppl die , and the houses be destroyed !
The syrians are the worst.
1. Asad is playing to thcords of Bush
2. He is pretending to be a big hero (because of his military agreement with Iran
3. He would never have the balls to deal with Israel
4. He will do it like a coward like he has done during the past two decades...through Lebanon with Hezbollah.
I agree with Patrick. Lebanon is a wonderful country with wonderful people and culture.
Hopefully the Lebanese People will take a stand and not let this happen
I wish the Lebanes people a CENTURY of peace and prosperity.
"It seems that some ppl have different plans for Lebanon -
it's always one of both :
Syrian dominance backed by the U.S.
Isralei invasion backed by the U.S. "
where is it stated that the US backs Syrian dominance in Lebanon?
the last time i checked, it was the US that agreed to Syria no longer occupying Lebanese land after Hariri's assassination.... i could be wrong but for you to say the US backs Syrian occupation in Lebanon is questionable... plus, why would the US even support Syria in anything that they do expecially since Syria is a puppet of Iran?
dear jojon .. since 1975 the US backed syria in lebanon theyr the ones that told htem to enter and suported them..
the drift began beween them when 7afez el assad died.. and especially after 9/11
us administration begin to xhange.. and see that the only way to stop extremist is by opposing syria whihc is the factory of these militants.. not as ideology but more as supplying hem syria have been the one supporting bin laden and other extremist..(under the table).. as u know also US is the one that backed ben laden in afghanistan against the USSR actuall they ar ethe one that finance them and mad ethe m prosper in the chechneya.. afghanistan.. so they can "destroy" USSR.
the same thing with syria, after 9/11 US noticed that they cannot upheld syria anymore cse they r making trouble especially in iraq.. and t eonly way to break them was to take them out of lebanon .. so they can make the admin in syria weaker..
"the last time i checked, it was the US that agreed to Syria no longer occupying Lebanese land after Hariri's assassination"
I meant the 30 years previous to the Hariri assassination... isn't that enough ?
"Hopefully the Lebanese People will take a stand"
WE did on the 14th of March 2005.. the biggest demo as reported by Guinness (highest percentage of the population in a demo in one country)
I guess that wasn't enough !
We should spend ou lives demonstrating, and taking stands so people actually realise there's a problem ! kinda tiring dnt u think ? :-)
> You just don't like my politics because they don't agree with the apologist garbage that fills daily fills the UK Guardian's editorial page.
I don't like your politics because its dishonest and hypocritical. Nevermind the Guardian, from the inter-press service news:
Israelis are not aggressive enough! http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34322
What you call apologist garbage is an open fact of neo-con. mentality and their goals.
> Again, I am not uncomfortable with many underlying tenants of Zionist movement. But if you're not able to recognize the differences between the Israeli in the Iranian states that would have me characterize one as the greater of two evils...
'Uncomfortable' is too soft and polite a word...
Jewish-Zionists -Lesser of the two evils?! I regard them as not only as sick culture-retarders,
but also dishonest culture-distorters. They have a track record of encouraging wars and engaging in a profitable war-economy by funding and brokering with both sides of the warring parties. Bastards.
"In Algeria, Washington is on both sides: it is with the French Government, as its "ally": it is with the rebels by virtue of its world-program of "freedom" for everybody. In Egypt, the Washington regime told Palestine, England and France to attack, and when Russia rose, it told them to stop. It was, within a week, anti-Nasser and pro-Nasser. It occupied Lebanon, then evacuated. It held back Chiang when from his island, he would have attacked China with whom the Washington regime was then at war. It defended South Korea, but helped the Chinese maintain their supply line to the front. During the Chinese War in Korea, it made and negotiated peace at the same time, for years. In Cuba it forbade exportation of arms to the loyal Batista and thus helped Fidel Castro; now it is committed to the overthrow of Castro." http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/world.html http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/destiny.html
Their double-standards have wrecked many countries, my own India included. Ever since the 7th century, we were facing the Islamic invaders as invaders, and with the entry of Judea,
"Why does the Jew want Democracy in India, whilst opposing it in Palestine? Because Democracy would lose India for the British and would lose Palestine for the Jew, where he is a small minority. It is all perfectly simple."
-Arnold Leese, the Jewish destruction of India and the White Paper http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/destruction_of_india.htm
They collapsed us from the inside and the outside brokering 'unnatural peace' between two racial faiths of people, and to this day, we face terrorist attacks killing our people. Its the Jihadis who do it but who bred them, who brokered them, who supplied them, who accomodated them as 'citizens' in our country?!
And today, when it comes to their own 'homeland', they advocate exclusivity and outright expansion?! Laughter.
Jewish cosmology of victimhood and ritual sacrifice of children:
"Here," cried Winfried, as his eyes flashed and his hand lifted his heavy staff, "here is the Thunder-oak; and here the cross of Christ shall break the hammer of the false god Thor."
And yet, how do they feel when that same cult they created is catching up to them, wanting to 'harvest them'?...
Sure, there's the other evil http://www.meforum.org/article/686
but if even the most tolerant broad-minded Rome felt the former 'crooked', I know my instincts are well placed.
> well, then you're more thickheaded than the average 'liberal' today who worries more about the activities of our CIA than they do objectives of Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah. I put you in the same league with the anti-Semite rednecks I met up in Telemark Norway who asked me how I could live in a country where where "the media and government are run by Jews."
Mind your words before you call or categorize someone a redneck anti-Semite. Sometimes you don't have to be one of those, being pro-pagan/polytheistic more than does it.
> Well, how do you feel about Jews, Scott?
I have no sympathy for double-std. dishonesty.
For the record, I am all for a Zion homeland and for an Arab homeland as far as ethnicity goes, but if each of them expect to practise and impose their monotheistic theocracy singularly on a soil that is not theirs, I say they are 'evil'.
Every people, every kind of people have a right to exist and flourish, even the Semites, and so I condemn any ethnic cleansing and wiping out people just for the heck of it. Israelis have been masters at this stealing water from Palestinian families! And islamists burning off oil wells so no one else should have it either. I have nothing but disgust for such mean mental actions.
seriously anyone who thinks this is a real discussion anymore needs to follow sotthis links and tell me waht the fuck. Is this shit what archinect feels is acceptable? ive never had this opinion about anything ive seen on these disccussions because i feel you can make an argument about zionism and israel without being antisemitic (and dont start screeching about semetic races, im using a comonly ref. term) but Sotthi has repeatedly posted links to the most retarted shit on the net.
Sotthi !
actually i was discussing the same issue with a friend
1)- We're checking out with the lebanese army who asked for help just like Hizballah did - but personally i am to help architecturally with the lebanese government not any other party !
2)- I practically work for free.. (if u had any ideas about lebanese wages) hehehe - so definitely won't be charging any fees - will try to help in my spare time !
There's just like a positive energy now in the country that people can feel - media is doing a gr8 job at that - everyone wants to rebuild what has been destroyed the quickest way ever
so hopefully we'll do it in no time - i guess we got used to rebuilding so many times- it has become a piece of cake ! hehehe
caste:> seriously anyone who thinks this is a real discussion anymore needs to follow sotthis links and tell me waht the fuck. Is this shit what archinect feels is acceptable? ive never had this opinion about anything ive seen on these disccussions because i feel you can make an argument about zionism and israel without being antisemitic (and dont start screeching about semetic races, im using a comonly ref. term) but Sotthi has repeatedly posted links to the most retarted shit on the net.
Caste-on-the-lowest-rung crying out to everone for conformity! How pathetic. Shows what "freedom" means to you.
I made it explicitly clear I am not an anti-Semite and all for an ethnic Zion and Arab homeland, and that all kinds of people have the right to exist and flourish, so try and debate my "retarded" links if you can or want to, or else kindly take your whimpering elsewhere. Its undignifying.
Patrick Marckesano: > Jews are ruining the world by being the cause of every war...
No; just every profitable war, and in those wars that serve no purpose than pure malice, they share the hall of fame with the jihadis. And not jews, but Judaism.
"Dostoievsky especially condemned the exploitation of the poor, ignorant, and helpless Russian peasants by the voraciously greedy and utterly heartless Jews. For example:
Thus, Jewry is thriving precisely there where the people are still ignorant, or not free, or economically backward. It is there that Jewry has a champ libre. And instead of raising, by its influence, the level of education, instead of increasing knowledge, generating economic fitness in the native population -- instead of this the Jew, wherever he has settled, has still more humiliated and debauched the people; there humaneness was still more debased and the educational level fell still lower; there inescapable, inhuman misery, and with it despair, spread still more disgustingly. Ask the native population in our border regions: What is propelling the Jew -- and has been propelling him for centuries? You will receive a unanimous answer: mercilessness. 'He has been prompted so many centuries only by pitilessness to us, only by the thirst for our sweat and blood.'" http://library.flawlesslogic.com/dost.htm
I suppose Dostoevsky was full of shit and retarded too...
If you put half the energy you put in this thread into the reconstruction effort, you will have quite a rich portfolio.
I'd urge you to post a blog of that process here.
dear sotthy, ET.. when u do volonteer work to develop ur country and help u r people .. u deal with any1 gov.. hizbullah. i would remind u that the gov isnt working at alll not rebuilding not helping. during the war the lebanese government was doing less than the average even less...than any average. refugees were helped by local non- governmental organisations (red cross, local defense. lfp party, communist social parties etc.....)
also the rebuilding will be through these organisations and not by the lebanese gov. cse they are busy calculating the money that they ll steel from the aids. anyway...
for me as an architect i already began my volunteer work by helping the red cross and local areas with the rubbel and the cleaning the damaged villages.. we are starting this weekend. in the much less ravaged parts because the most destroyed vilages need to be cleared from mines and non explosed missiles ... also until the israelis are pulled out completely from the area..
regarding the projects as homes.. and shelters we already began proposals and of course it is for free.. no matter what are the wages in lebanon or outside lebanon, thats not the issue its a humanitarian work so if ur in the states helping katrina disaster area or in lebanon it makes no different free work is essential. what u can profit is from bridges and major contracting deals not from little houses and homes.
if u give 2 hours per day for this work.. ull rebuild evthg in a speedy way.... for me im giving my weekends for this .. and i hope i will be giving my full time for this in couple of months. ...
as for lany.. dear,,, what the portfolio has got to do with all this/?? getting a better job u mean? well...dear the pple that work in humanitarian work or the architects that are willing to contribute in anyway for free and spend his/her time helping residents to resettle. arent looking for a portfolio... the guys that have that target..wel l they arent true architects.....
Patrick Marckesano:> But being a genius as an artist does not except one from making huge philosophical blunders or being a racist.
That's a sorry excuse; and I actually think it cowardly when people only like to pick out bits and pieces of things they approve of and do away with the rest,- these are the kind who can only bear life being pleasurable at every turn.
Neither life, nor a human being is to be engaged in such a fashion I think. What you call 'philosophical blunders' or whatever itty gritty thing that is negative about a person or a life are the very and even necessary elements that constitute the totality of who he is.
An affirmative man learns to take in both - that is wholesome.
"With every increase of greatness and height in man, there is also an increase in depth and terribleness: one ought not to desire the one without the other or rather: the more radically one desires the one, the more radically one achieves precisely the other." - Nietzsche
> The excerpt of his writing that you have provided is a blatant example of anti-Semitism.
No; not to the ones who actually faced such a real oppression.
> This is completely unacceptable rhetoric in the 21st century
Wasn't indulging in one in the slightest. Just calling a spade a spade.
> your use of it as a defense only goes further to illustrate your own racist views.
I haven't been defending anything. Only your equivocation of various things compelled me to write here.
> Also, have you neglected to realize the great difference in historical and cultural context, from Dostoyevsky's day to your own?
I don't see much of a difference, the same repitions for the same reasons by the same moralities - everything's just gotten more 'efficient'.
> Putting responsibility for all the world's ills upon one group is the sure mark of a charlatan
Funny coming from someone who's been demonizing the third reich for every thing!
In any case, I already said in another thread, I don't point fingers at people, just their monotheistic ideaology. None of which can be denied. Ethnic cleansing of a whole group of people whether its by Israelis on Palestinians/Lebanese or vice-versa IS EVIL in my view.
I am all for an ethnic Arab or Israeli state, but I bitterly oppose the imposition of any tyrannical Zionist or Islamic state upon another - such kinds of theological expansionism/encroachment is barbaric of the most evil sort, and anyone defending such actions or even turning a blind eye as you do are the worst kinds of charlatans among charlatans.
> you clearly are incapable of reaching any conclusion other than that which you initially set out to prove.
I didn't set out to prove anything. lol
Its you that's incapable of reaching any conclusion because historical facts cannot simply be shyed away from, and all you can do is sully, and willy-nilly wish whatever disturbs you could just vanish away. What miserable impotency.
> The philosophy you wish to bolster is both an outmoded and archaic. With any luck, such thought will be slowly eradicated from human society--not by repression or censorship but by insurmountable proofs to the contrary. The means is universal education, untarnished by any religion or the politics of hate.
What crap. Pointing out to religion/politics of hate being practised in front of your very rosy liberal nose is neither outmoded nor archaic.
But don't let me stop you dreaming of your un-real utopias in limbo-land. Maybe when your feet touches the ground and you have the conscience, an intellectual honesty and the courage to not live in denial... then maybe your thoughts might bear some if any value.
"Also, have you neglected to realize the great difference in historical and cultural context, from Dostoyevsky's day to your own?"
... the really leads you in the other direction. it implies racism is culturally construed and therefor not an unchangeable principle. this could lead to absolving the nazi rule of all henous racist crimes commited in the name of race simply because they were not racist..being that racism is merely a contemporary notion and they are no longer our contemporaries. you were better off adoting less culturally relative benchmarks.
"I didn't set out to prove anything. lol"
- that be true. s/he's her/his own spokesperson.
finally: "I am all for an ethnic Arab or Israeli state, but I bitterly oppose the imposition of any tyrannical Zionist or Islamic state upon another " hear hear. but i repeat, remove the semitic reference elsewhere. it really didnt make sense.
"I have a job by which I make moderate economic gains. And if I spend all my time here debating with an anti-Semite on the folly of his ways, I will lose my apartment and girlfriend"
At what point in this thread did we get to this ?
lol
Patrick:> just think things are a little more complex than your theories about the excesses of Zionism or monotheism can explain.
I haven't heard of your better well-reasoned theories other than a blatant equivocation of all atrocities as Nazi totalitarianism. That's rich. Go ahead by all means and enlighten.
> Again, the nature of an Islamist state like Iran is closer to fascism (as exampled by Germany, Italy, Japan in the mid-twentieth century) than is a state like Israel.
Wrong. Neither Iran nor Isreal are fascist in the proper Axial sense; Fascism wasn't a theocracy. Should you care, I ask you to maintain a discipline for seeing each thing for what it is. Integrating them via look-alike comparisons isn't going to solve anything; in fact, that is likely to prove a hurdle.
> I simply identify with their present form of government and intellectual climate--more than say, that which exists in its neighboring countries.
wow... what a roundabout! you accuse me of an archaic mindset and here you are identifying yourself with a state that still identifies itself with an archaic text filled with wars and espousing hate and destruction of its civilizational time since egypt to this day!!
Israel's very identity and mindset is based on a revealed text of such old old wars and deadly hatred - which should have gone obsolete by now in this 21st century of 'civilized' people, and yet...
Same for the Koran.
How convenient for you that the Islamic countries should just forget their history and identity, while Israel can rampage on!
Now you know why I characterized your politics as both hypocritical and dishonest.
And as to your quibble about climatic conditions being bad in Iran and better than Israel: http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1807160,00.html
> National Socialism was a clear regression, with respect to contemporary forms of government (AND the Weimar Republic which it replaced).
I suppose that was why it was so admired equally by Churchill and by Zion to model their own states after such a fashion. It would be an understatement to say the crudity, the sadism, the bigotry of political policies of contemporary semitic governments... I mean there was something noble even in the barbarism of cave-men which these sods lack.
> What I meant was that I forgive a brilliant artist like Dostoyevsky for
You are so full of it. You 'forgive'?! LOL I am sure Dostoevsky gives a hoot. You are going to forgive Voltaire and Renan too?! Nevermind them. Read the views coming on anti-semitism from Israeli defectors and those few honest jews on the truth of their monotheistic faith and the truth about the holocaust and the holocaust 'industry' like shahak or finkelstein.
> his displaying anit-semitism in his day (preceding the enormous lesson of the 20th century's holocaust) while I cannot forgive such expressions in the current.
How perfectly smug! like the jews had a monopoly on 'the' holocaust - nevermind the intentional merciless starvation and oppression of poor russian peasants they put to. If anyone were to challenge the dollar hegemony and the stock market - like Hitler did then or like the Gulf countries now, its an immediate call for war. And the sad fact is, its not even honourable war anymore for honourable reasons, in their lingo war = market competition. Bastards. Why don't you go read the ugly zion protocols or the great nauseating weisthaupt to understand why they spew and breed such hatred in the world.
You cannot forgive such expressions in the current? fyi its a reality in the mideast with a historicism that cannot be conveniently white-washed away. Nothing's been more bloody destructive physiologically and spiritually than the tenets of Moses and his cutthroat army hooligans.
> In parting, let me provide you with a backhanded compliment--very rarely have I encountered somebody so well spoken with such poorly formed conclusions. Maybe if the British Crown had extended the years of their protectorate in your home country, you would have received a better education. I don't know and frankly I don't care.
Spoken like a true rouser [and member] of the rabble! The mob is always a coward, and I equally cease my interest in engaging with you.
i found french government's pledge of additional 200 troops to lebanon almost laughable.
i understand un mandate has to be more direct and clearer about international deployment's objectives, but, 200 troops in addition to existing 200? madame...
turkey who pledged up to 5000 battle experienced troops (bosnia, afganistan, south eastern turkey) is also very sceptical about the un mandate and might withdraw its pledge to a minimum number because of it. turkish public is mainly against sending any troops to lebanon; a-) maybe fighting for and protecting israel who were the agressors in their eyes, b-) lebanon was a host country training the pkk's kurdish terrorists (another man's freedom fighters) against turkey. turkish role in lebanon is irreplacable by any other force both for historical and cultural ties in addition to its well trained and equipped troop quality. i have not studied the un mandate as of yet, but like to hear from people here, who have.
also, a taboo of criticising israel is broken after this war which i think is only good for very survival of israel herself, and might very well be the beginnings of just peace in middle east. maybe i am wishfully dreaming. but we all have to dream a little for the things that don't exist on the ground, yet.
so far, hizbullah is laying low on guerilla action and back to its civilian support organization to make big on its much grown popularity, offering rent support to homeless victims of the israeli carpet bombing and other social services in which they are also very experienced and structured for.
on a related note;
i don't think it is responsible or sophisticated for the president of an very important and powerfull country to use words like 'islamo fascist'. it doesn't serve any purpose other than brewing more animosity towards west and give more power to the hands of radicalized factions in the islamic realm.
sorry, for jumping from branch to branch like a monkey, but lets go back to situation at hand, which is the humanitarian crisis in lebanon, in gaza, and yes, not so much physical but more psycological sense, in israel.
oh and I hate the definition of Fascism you have chosen Patrick. I prefer the following.
Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.
Patrick Marckesano:> (Feel free to have the last word
Very well, and I oblige you to the same generosity!
> and even call me nasty names.)
Not interested, never was.
> I never made such an equivocation, Do you know what fascism means?
Do you? Fascism has its origins since the days of the Roman fasces (the lictors). And more politically, during the periods between WWI and WWII, besides Italy and Germany, there were fascist movements with completely different stresses on the 'features' given by your dictionary - in, britain (Mosley), Ireland, Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania, Hungary, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.
So your equivocating totalitarianism and its tyranny with fascism is completely ridiculous. To properly speak, it should suffice to say Iran is a totalitarian tyrant or Israel is one or the policies of US is one. For one thing, there ARE nuances such as an non-totalitarian organic fascist state as was some of the states in the examples given. Bother to look up any of their charters sometimes. In the organic fascist state, racialism is one of its features; racism isn't necessarily an inherent feature of it.
> you racist dult.
Calling nasty names looks like your hobby... I've already said I amn't an anti-Semite. I am not a racist; I am a racialist - I believe in the integrity of every kind of race - semites included.
> I do not see the blatant censorship, state-dictated religion, succession of rule by non-democratic means, suppression and in many cases murder of student protesters that I see in Iran!
I am not here to defend Iran, but I have to disagree with this instantaneous equation of suppression of individual rights = fascism!
More than anything that is so unintelligent and useless to arrive at any meaningful study/solution on things.
"liberalism, in the sense of the emphasis on the individual above and even against that of the nation, actually endangers the individual by undermining the stability of the society which gives him identity, values, purpose and meaning, the social, cultural and biological nexus to which he owes his very being." - de Benoist, the Decay of Modern Society
""A State is organic when it has a centre, and this centre is an idea that shapes the various domains of life in an efficacious way; it is organic when it ignores the division and the autonomisation of the particular and when, by virtue of a system of hierarchical participation, every part within its relative autonomy performs its own function and enjoys an intimate connection with the whole." It is not difficult to see how this differs fundamentally with the individualism and liberalism of the modern age.
"totalitarianism merely represents the counterfeited image of the organic ideal. It is a system in which unity is imposed from the outside, not on the basis of the intrinsic force of a common idea and an authority that is naturally acknowledged, but rather through direct forms of intervention and control, exercised by a power that is exclusively and materially political, imposing itself as the ultimate reason for the system." - Evola, Men among the Ruins
So. There are two kinds.
One. Tyrannical totalitarian - where uniformity is forced and imposed from the outside by means of state intervention and coercion.
Two. Organic fascist - where the rights and the liberty of the individual are seen from the point of view of a collective unity of the nation.
"Fundamentally, classical liberalism was a doctrine which, out of an abstract individual, created the pivot of its survival. In its mildest form it merely emphasized individual freedom of action, and condemned excessive bureaucratic involvement by government. But praiseworthy though its defense of individual freedom was, its claim that the ideal system is that in which there is the least possible emphasis on nationhood leads to situations which in fact endanger the freedom of the individual. In its extreme form, classical liberalism has developed into universal libertarianism, and at this point it comes close to advocating anarchy. It denies the historical concept of the nation state by rejecting the notion of any common interest between individuals who traditionally shared a common heritage. In the place of nationhood it proposes to generate a new international social pattern centered on the individual's quest for optimal personal and economic interest. Within the context of extreme liberalism, only the interplay of individual interests creates a functional society—a society in which the whole is viewed only as a chance aggregate of anonymous particles." - de Benoist.
An organic fascist state lays stress on realizing this collective destiny, where the individual is more than an atom with mere economic interests and rights. His liberty is tied to the collective whole.
Your mindless equivocation of suppression of liberties = fascist is completely wrong.
> Short of advocating violence or overthrow of the government, you can say anything you want in Israel and not be censored.
> So don't tell me that the two are the same or that the government of Iran is not Fascist. It is the VERY DEFINITION OF FASCIST.
The dogmatic absolutism of semitic monotheism is the same to me.
Iran is not Fascist with no qualifiers like there's a single std.! Iran like Israel is clerical totalitarianism/clerical fascism (if you must be satisfied bringing in the word fascist, then do so with a qualifier).
> Besides your little nifty Dostoyevsky quote, have you ever bothered read anything of the Kremlin's own government rule?
So now you want to say the oppression by the czars justifies bolshevik atrocities?! LOL
Another person's painful reality may seem 'nifty' to you and what not, but its a fact. Dosteovsky's isn't the only one I can quote, but I am not here to do your work for you. And yes, I have bothered to read:
"First, we should consider the possibility that responsibility for the crimes of Communism can be traced to a Russian penchant for oppression. However, the tsarist regime of terror against which the Bolsheviks fought pales in comparison uith the horrors committed by the Bolsheviks when they took power. The tsar allowed political prisoners to face a meaningful justice system. The counsel for the defendant could represent his client up to the time of indictment and even beyond, and he could also appeal to national and international public opinion, an option unavailable under Communist regimes. Prisoners and convicts benefited from a set of rules governing the prisons, and the system of imprisonment and deportation was relatively lenient. Those who were deported could take their families, read and write as they pleased, go hunting and fishing, and talk about their "misfortune" with their companions. Lenin and Stalin had firsthand experience of this.
True, riots and insurrections were brutally crushed by the ancien regime. However, from 1825 to 1917 the total number of people sentenced to death in Russia for their political beliefs or activities was 6,360, of whom only 3,932 were executed. This number can be subdivided chronologically into 191 for the years 1825 - 1905 and 3,741 for 1906 - 1910. These figures were surpassed by the
Bolsheviks in March 1918, after they had been in power for only four months. It follows that tsarist repression was not in the same league as Communist dictatorship." - Stephane Courtois, The Black Book of Communism
In any case, this is what I am saying. Whether its the czarist christian orthodoxy, or the bolshevik jews or islamic jihadis, absolutist tyranny is a mindset and feature of semitic monotheism.
> And are you seriously suggesting that Hitler's anti-Semitism was in ANY WAY justified by supposed Jewish control/manipulation/hegemony of the global stock markets?
Why is it that Jews have been persecuted ever since history and constantly driven out? Everybody cannot be anti-semitic, everybody cannot be wrong!
I think Hitler's attitudes and outlook were largely politically motivated in national interests than racist hatred against a race per se. Look up David Irving to read of the German-Jews of whom he held a high opinion of and even promoted them in the national army. Mussolini came to power with Jewish help!
There were Jews who acted like a nation within a nation, practising bigoted dual laws. - these Hitler ordered out.
There were Jews who maintained their religion as a personal matter and were patriotic to uphold German interests first. Germany before jewishness - they were never persecuted.
So stop seeing everything in so black and white. Learn to apply some nuance in everything.
And if you are so objective, bother to read Michael Walsh's Witness to History, or
the role of the Jews in WWI and WWII written by a Jew himself: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/freedman.html
> Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during address in the Iranian city of Zahedan... I am supposed to believe that the whole Holocaust thing has been fabricated or at the very least, greatly exaggerated? And that the laws and doctrine of a single religion--Islam--are more worth upholding
I am not defending Iran (its Islamism has been viciously responsible for wiping out all the beautiful aryan traces of ancient Persia), but I don't think anything should be held so sacrosanct like the holocaust that it does not permit the freedom of a healthy skepticism.
The Hindu holocaust under Islamic hands is almost an unrecorded event... but we don't cry wolf at every turn and jump to anyone questioning the WWII holocaust (which included various nationalities) as immediately Nazi, Fascist, Anti-Semite, Jew-hater, Racist, etc.
> are more worth upholding than the lessons of a mass genocide perpetrated by Fascist leaders in mid-twentieth Europe?????
What emotive dogmatic crap.
Mass genocide = Fascist ?!
Lessons are to be learnt from any genocide! For example the genocide celebrated in the Old Testament.
For example, the ethnic cleansing in Africa by that evangelical buffalo Mugabe
Mass genocide is also = Communist/Stalinist/Maoist/Jihadist, etc.
You are the one who's racist! laying down every death and every totalitarianism at the feet of the German/Italian/Japanese people.
You 'bigoted racist dolt', look to yourself first, learn some nuance and stop equivocating every atrocity and every extreme as fascist.
Look up your dictionary for what 'nuance' means, nevermind fascism!
> but you are a racist ass
No, I am not. I don't harbour hate for the jewish/arab ethnicity - and not even their religion (by all means let them practise anything they want on their soil), but the totalitarianism of their faith - which in all my learning is only unique to their monotheistic texts. Ironically for that matter, National Socialism held that it was not! for export. I have abs. no sympathy for theocratic expansions and wiping out of ethnicities like Israel and the Islamists do. F--- them. And god help you if you cannot understand all that, and just want to call anyone who takes you to task on your double-standards as 'racist a--'.
> You are wrong and thankful the International diplomatic community has better perspective than you.
The human instinct is far stronger than all the history of oppression mankind has gone through. Noble values will stand again. Thank Gods, dharma has a better perspective than you.
Thanks for the email but its not my style commenting on someone at their backs. I don't have anything more to say to Patrick, because when he says I immediately lose my credibility over my consideration of any holocaust revisionism, it being a documented FACT, he just undermines his own self - because the very holocaust he's mourning for - the wars behind it were funded by you-know-who, on both sides as always! So its a little tragi-comical-ironical.
And the other is like everyday news: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=9898
In any case, I concur with him on his last remark, and that's that.
this just in from amnesty international, reporting israeli violations on lebanese civilians are deliberate and calling them war crimes.
[url=http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE020182006]"Israel’s assertion that the attacks on the infrastructure were lawful is manifestly wrong. Many of the violations identified in our report are war crimes, including indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks. The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of power and water plants, as well as the transport infrastructure vital for food and other humanitarian relief, was deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy," said Kate Gilmore, Executive Deputy Secretary General of Amnesty International.
[/url]
"You Cannot Promise Victory, Produce a
Humiliating Defeat and Stay in
Power"
Israel Must Win
By GILAD ATZMON
"The ceasefire in Lebanon was holding by a thread
last night after
Israel sanctioned a commando raid in the east of
the country. Kofi
Annan, the United Nations Secretary General, said
Israel had violated
the truce, and he was 'deeply concerned' about
it."
The Guardian
For those familiar with Israeli aggression, the
IDF violation was no
surprise at all. For a week or so, every Israeli
cabinet member and
military official promised publicly that it is
just a question of time
before there is a 'second round'. Indeed, they
must come up with
something. Since the end of the hostilities, all
Israeli political
analysts and polls suggest that Israel's
political and military
leadership failed completely. If elections were
to be held soon, both
Labor and Kadima would simply disappear. It is no
secret that with each
passing day, Olmert's and Peretz's popularity
continually slumps to new
lows. Jerusalem Post.
One may wonder whether the Israelis are changing
their spots, do they
stop approving Olmert's policies just because
peace is what they really
prefer? The influential political commentator Ari
Shavit provided an
answer two weeks ago. Mr Olmert, so he says, had
'failed shamefully'
and should resign. Shavit continues, "You cannot
lead an entire nation
to war promising victory, produce humiliating
defeat and remain in
power." As I mentioned more than once before, the
Israeli politician
has to cope with a demanding, bloodthirsty crowd.
This realisation throws some light over the
reasons behind the failed
Israeli operation in Lebanon just three days ago.
Israelis are simply
desperate to win. But it may also explain why
Israeli government
decided to expand its military operation pretty
much at the same time
it accepted the UN ceasefire resolution. Olmert
knew that he must serve
his voters with what they interpret as a
clear-cut victory. This would
mean either some severe form of revenge with lots
of Arab casualties or
a significant land invasion. Olmert, his
'national unity' government
and the army leadership have to do something that
would cover up four
weeks of disastrous military campaign that failed
to serve the Israeli
public with even a single second of glory.
Indeed, the IDF military offensive doctrine is
grounded on one basic
axiom that was defined by David Ben Gurion in the
early fifties:
whatever it takes, Israel must always win! This
axiom is indeed very
powerful, yet, in reality, the Israeli army can't
provide the goods
anymore. In the last three decades the Israeli
army is constantly being
beaten time after time by enemies that are
getting smaller and smaller.
Yet, one may mention that the IDF isn't very
original in being
defeated. The IDF fails exactly where the
American army has been
failing since Vietnam. Shockingly, the IDF has
managed to copy every
possible American mistake. It religiously adopted
the new American
military philosophy of a 'compact highly
sophisticated fighting force'.
Undeniably, this very doctrine is very effective
in producing some
gigantic collateral damage i.e., war crimes. Yet,
in the long run, it
fails miserably in wining wars. The new American
military doctrine may
win a battle or two but no more than that. In the
most recent years it
has been totally beaten in Afghanistan, Iraq,
Gaza and obviously in
Lebanon.
Though the early stages of the Israeli campaign
in Lebanon looked very
much like the first few days of the second Gulf
War (major air assault
on civilian infrastructure and populated areas),
there is at least one
major noticeable difference. While America can
stand and even ignore
international criticism referring to its own war
crimes, it isn't
willing to suffer much international criticism
for Israeli atrocities.
While in the early stages of the war America was
rushing to provide
Israel with air convoys loaded with its most
lethal conventional
arsenal, we have learned towards the last week of
the war that the
American administration changed its mind, it
suddenly refused to
provide the IDF with a shipment of cluster bombs
because it "would
endanger the civilian population". Seemingly,
there is a limit to what
the Americans are willing to do for their
'closest friend' in the
Middle East.
This is exactly where the Israeli limbo is. In
order to maintain its
status as a winning regional super power, Israel
needs the blind
support of America (politically, financially and
logistically). Yet
American blind support can be grunted to Israel
only if the Jewish
State is indeed a regional super power to start
with. Olmert and his
government are fully aware of this very
complexity. They know that
without being a regional super power in the first
place, they have
nothing to offer their almighty American
brothers. Israel is crucial
for the strategy of the Americans as long as it
can wipe out all its
enemies in six days at the most. The way things
appear now, the Israeli
Army is basically defeated by the two smallest
nations in the Arab
world, the Palestinian and the Lebanese ones.
As much as it clear to the Israelis, it is clear
to the Americans that
unlike the bold Hezbollah, the IDF soldier has
lost his will to fight.
The IDF is a spoiled, confused and tired army
that is specializing
solely in terrorizing civilian populations while
being engaged in
constant tactical withdraw. This Israeli Army is
not trained to win
wars anymore. Instead, its tank battalions are
mainly engaged in daily
shelling of schools and hospitals. Its Air Force
uses the best American
fighter planes to flatten neighborhoods and shoot
deadly rockets at
cars in the streets of Gaza. Its command units
are expert in abducting
democratically elected middle-aged Palestinian
politicians. The IDF is
basically a heavy army specializing in merciless
regional bullying.
Yet, it cannot win a war, and as such it has
nothing to offer the
American empire.
But the Israeli military defeat has some further
implications. Israel
without a victorious army, has nothing to offer
to world Jewry either.
It can never present itself as the ultimate
cosmic Judeo bunker. It is
pretty shocking to prospect the relative silence
of the infamous
Zionist media shield. While just six weeks ago
the loud supporters of
Anglo-American interventionism were still pushing
for democracy in the
Arab world and beyond, they were enthusiastic
about killing in the name
of human rights and about Israel being the only
democracy in the Middle
East. Somehow, since the war began, since Israel
revealed once again
its murderous tendencies and Hezbollah proved to
be the new Robin Hood,
these voices are caving in. Many among the global
Zionists do already
understand now that the Anglo-American assault on
the Arab world just
suffered a major blow. Some of them probably
grasp that it is just a
question of time before more and more Europeans
and Americans join the
sacred battle against the Americanized Global
Zionism, i.e.,
neo-conservatism.
The recent victory of the Hezbollah therefore
must be realized as a
major event with some global implications. While
the Hezbollah regards
itself a paramilitary organization concerned
mainly with some local
issues having to do with Israeli expansionism, it
has managed to cause
a serious blow to neo-conservatism as a political
praxis as well as a
philosophy. It has beaten the Zionized
Anglo-American worldview.
Standing up to Zionism and Americanism, it is the
Lebanese, the
Palestinians, the Iraqis, the Afghanis and the
Iranians who happen to
be at the vanguard of the war for humanity and
humanism. For those who
are yet to be convinced that this indeed the
case, I will mention that
the fact that it is Iran who rushed to pay 3
billion dollars to rebuild
Lebanon after the destruction made by 'American
interventionism' leaves
no room for interpretation. While America spreads
destruction and death
all over the world, it is Iran and the Hezbollah
that offers a new
beginning.
Olmert knows very well that if Israel doesn't win
this war, it is
global Zionism that is defeated, he knows as well
that without the
backing of global Zionism, Israel is basically a
dead entity. Olmert
knows that without America, it won't take long
before Israel turns into
an historic event. Israel will have to win its
mighty regional power
status whatever it takes. Israeli is indeed in
the very eye of the
neo-conservative storm. And the Hezbollah is
threatening something far
greater than just the Jewish State. As the
Israelis keep telling us,
the fight in Lebanon will resume soon and every
European leader knows
it.
Even now, they all know who is going to be the
aggressor when violence
spreads again in the region. They are all clever
enough to hesitate
about whether they want to send their soldiers to
the region. They know
that if Israel must win, it is better to stay out
of its way.
Gilad Atzmon was born in Israel and served in the
Israeli military. He
is the author of two novels: A Guide to the
Perplexed and the recently
released My One and Only Love. Atzmon is also one
of the most
accomplished jazz saxophonists in Europe. His
recent CD, Exile, was
named the year's best jazz CD by the BBC. He now
lives in London and
can be reached at: atz@...
War on Lebanon by bastard Zionists !
1701
finally a resolution !
Israel pull out
Lebanon deploy army
Unifil help Lebanon
And we all live happily ever after...
I mean thats only 10 years guys.. the ongoing rythm has proved an israeli offensive every 10 years !
and Patrick don't u have another pic to display ? is that all u have on lately..
the same pic on all posts , and islamist fascists.. gees for a sec i thought u were the cowboy himself !
Parachute i totally agree except for this !
"Israelis speak better English than Arabs" !!! hehehe
hmmm. turns out gunter grass was in the waffen ss.
" mean thats only 10 years guys"
10 years starting when? first those 4 days, then maybe the army comes in if they aren't eliminated first, then something happens and israel decides affairs haven't been sorted out, hizbollah....then maybe the 'future' gang, the syrian gang, the phalangists...
immaculately concieved : 'wheres the party?'
optimism keeps me going cd whore!
at least 4 now i'm feeling good about both governments accepting the "end of hostilities" by monday morning at 7:00 Beirut Time.
P.S. i don't know where they come up with shit like end the hostilities and no its different than cease fire - the first one allows u to continue killing till the political settlement !
whatever !!!!!
this is the strongest army in the world after the US ....
well ya.. that shows..lollolol guys start gathering food and water for the idf soldiers theyr starving heheheh thats a real pitty
the cease fire is already on but .. is it going to be for along time???? i wonder...
anyway .. i hope this weekend if MR olmert decide to lift his blockade.. so we can fill our cars with fuel.. i will be hitting the south area with my video cam .. and starting the humanitarian aids especially that as architect i am called to that.. we are going to start working on the mobile homes and mobile wcs and showers for the misplaced people around the southern area.. i will be bringing with me photos and videos and will be posting them on my website .. so wait for it...
chears
"This war started because Hizbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers, and killed 6"
"don't be worry - be happy - we will end the job now it won't take much longer, you can depend on the idf."
Some of the posts we had on this thread previously...
It's a shame to see how such crap was convincing ppl , when a look at the UN resolution 1701, does not even mention anything abt the soldiers...
I went to the southerns suburbs of Beirut today...
first day of cease fire.. at 8 in the morning, was there in the afternoon after work.
The amount of destruction i saw is not compared to anything i have previously seen in my life - and i have seen many wars in Lebanon...
The whole region of the subrubs that was one of the major attack zones ... equals approximately NY area.
for the first timein my life .. i smelled destruction...
i didn't just c it, didnt't just live it.. I smelled it..
I smelled Death.. smthg i havent b4.
I smelled hatred
I smelled racism
I smelled inhumanity
I smelled weeds of anger and revenge.. smthg Israel has succeeded in creating in every one of us, even the non-lebanese that were there, or the lebanese who were NOT in Hizbollah's party, nor chiites...
I smelled victory for the ppl who proved to be loyal to their beliefs and humanity.
I smelled smoke.. that i was able just to c previously thru the balcony...
But most of all... I smelled terrorism... I smelled Israeli terrorism.. and what a smell that was.. reminding us again the years of 96 - 93 - 82 and so on... A smell no one but the zionist state can produce !
The smell that the zionist state produced the one that ET talked about.. that smell will go away ..
maybe it stinks now.. maybe it smelled racism .. hatred..but all thi swill vanish because we are a people of heart.. of love and of peace
we lived all our lives in war sometime the war of the others sometimes our war.. but every time we clean and rebuild and we will continue to do that..
the smell will vanish .. no matter what the zionist think or do that will never makes us low or shattered we will SURVIVE ..
ALL people who are human who are with peace and love and survival are invited to the birth of the new lebanon .. our lebanon lebanon of shiites .. sunnistes.. maronistes .. orthodox ...e tc..
Germany .. japan were rebuild with the work , hard work of its citizens .. we all are invited to give maybe an hour.. a day a week, a month or a year to work and to give whatever we can to help our people.. help the people of south lebanon.
we, more than anyone, Architects... you study 5 or 6 years to get your diploma.. apply it.. use your knowledge your creativity
Building communities..
building societies
developing .. our world our environment...
that is our porpose thats the lebanese way, no matter what they do to us .. we will avenge... and we will survive..
oh god, im smelling some bullshit right here on this very thread
afro_al, ET
If someone would call someone 'a stinking arab' I would be offended as much for a Lebanese, Syrian, etc. Just the same I find the title of this blog racist, offending and inappropriate and the implication of the 'Jews' 'Zionists' was wrong from the beginning.
It was an act of the state of Israel.
Would you state that what the US is doing today is an act of the Christian Bastards against Iraq or the policy of the current government in the US?
It is WRONG to use racists tags, and yes much of what happened here on this list is pure bullshit.(One of th ereasons I held back so much on writing here).
While you walk around the ruins, think about it this way...
If you really want to rebuild and live a life get the troublemakers (Hezbollah) out of southern lebanon and try to keep the border a quiet one.
Chances are you won't have to rebuild again 5 years, ten years, twenty years down the road.
Stop blaming Israel all the time for everything, they are far from perfect, but look in the mirror, you guys are not saints just smoking your nargilas...
It seems the latest on the war on lebanon by the israelis is :
"The bacchus temple in Baalbeck - the roman city of the sun- has cracks due to the heavy bombing of the region" reported by lebanese french newspaper L'orient Le Jour on the 14/08/2007
While Lebanese show their will of life thru
http://www.lorientlejour.com/page.aspx?page=article&id=319808
Lany - at least i had the decency to say bastard zionists not bastard jews unlike some tv figures who were talking abt islamist fascists !!!!
and patrick - u can't throw ur ppl out of ur own country - just because u disagree with the people in Illinois, u dnt say u guys are not americans anymore, get out of the country !!!!
i meant 14/08/2006 (sorry)
on Bacchus
Update : Assad speech on Lebanon..
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAT001413.htm
It seems that some ppl have different plans for Lebanon -
it's always one of both :
Syrian dominance backed by the U.S.
Isralei invasion backed by the U.S.
i guess both democrats and republicans have their respective share of the pie !
While we get to have all the fun in watching the ppl die , and the houses be destroyed !
The syrians are the worst.
1. Asad is playing to thcords of Bush
2. He is pretending to be a big hero (because of his military agreement with Iran
3. He would never have the balls to deal with Israel
4. He will do it like a coward like he has done during the past two decades...through Lebanon with Hezbollah.
I agree with Patrick. Lebanon is a wonderful country with wonderful people and culture.
Hopefully the Lebanese People will take a stand and not let this happen
I wish the Lebanes people a CENTURY of peace and prosperity.
ET wrote:
"It seems that some ppl have different plans for Lebanon -
it's always one of both :
Syrian dominance backed by the U.S.
Isralei invasion backed by the U.S. "
where is it stated that the US backs Syrian dominance in Lebanon?
the last time i checked, it was the US that agreed to Syria no longer occupying Lebanese land after Hariri's assassination.... i could be wrong but for you to say the US backs Syrian occupation in Lebanon is questionable... plus, why would the US even support Syria in anything that they do expecially since Syria is a puppet of Iran?
dear jojon .. since 1975 the US backed syria in lebanon theyr the ones that told htem to enter and suported them..
the drift began beween them when 7afez el assad died.. and especially after 9/11
us administration begin to xhange.. and see that the only way to stop extremist is by opposing syria whihc is the factory of these militants.. not as ideology but more as supplying hem syria have been the one supporting bin laden and other extremist..(under the table).. as u know also US is the one that backed ben laden in afghanistan against the USSR actuall they ar ethe one that finance them and mad ethe m prosper in the chechneya.. afghanistan.. so they can "destroy" USSR.
the same thing with syria, after 9/11 US noticed that they cannot upheld syria anymore cse they r making trouble especially in iraq.. and t eonly way to break them was to take them out of lebanon .. so they can make the admin in syria weaker..
"the last time i checked, it was the US that agreed to Syria no longer occupying Lebanese land after Hariri's assassination"
I meant the 30 years previous to the Hariri assassination... isn't that enough ?
"Hopefully the Lebanese People will take a stand"
WE did on the 14th of March 2005.. the biggest demo as reported by Guinness (highest percentage of the population in a demo in one country)
I guess that wasn't enough !
We should spend ou lives demonstrating, and taking stands so people actually realise there's a problem ! kinda tiring dnt u think ? :-)
Patrick Marckesano:> Scotthi...
Its not Scott or Scotthi, its Sotthi.
> You just don't like my politics because they don't agree with the apologist garbage that fills daily fills the UK Guardian's editorial page.
I don't like your politics because its dishonest and hypocritical. Nevermind the Guardian, from the inter-press service news:
Israelis are not aggressive enough!
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34322
What you call apologist garbage is an open fact of neo-con. mentality and their goals.
> Again, I am not uncomfortable with many underlying tenants of Zionist movement. But if you're not able to recognize the differences between the Israeli in the Iranian states that would have me characterize one as the greater of two evils...
'Uncomfortable' is too soft and polite a word...
Jewish-Zionists -Lesser of the two evils?! I regard them as not only as sick culture-retarders,
Jewish dominance in Porn Industry:
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/jewish_dominance_in_porn.htm
http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=1841
but also dishonest culture-distorters. They have a track record of encouraging wars and engaging in a profitable war-economy by funding and brokering with both sides of the warring parties. Bastards.
"In Algeria, Washington is on both sides: it is with the French Government, as its "ally": it is with the rebels by virtue of its world-program of "freedom" for everybody. In Egypt, the Washington regime told Palestine, England and France to attack, and when Russia rose, it told them to stop. It was, within a week, anti-Nasser and pro-Nasser. It occupied Lebanon, then evacuated. It held back Chiang when from his island, he would have attacked China with whom the Washington regime was then at war. It defended South Korea, but helped the Chinese maintain their supply line to the front. During the Chinese War in Korea, it made and negotiated peace at the same time, for years. In Cuba it forbade exportation of arms to the loyal Batista and thus helped Fidel Castro; now it is committed to the overthrow of Castro."
http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/world.html
http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/destiny.html
Their double-standards have wrecked many countries, my own India included. Ever since the 7th century, we were facing the Islamic invaders as invaders, and with the entry of Judea,
"Why does the Jew want Democracy in India, whilst opposing it in Palestine? Because Democracy would lose India for the British and would lose Palestine for the Jew, where he is a small minority. It is all perfectly simple."
-Arnold Leese, the Jewish destruction of India and the White Paper
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/destruction_of_india.htm
They collapsed us from the inside and the outside brokering 'unnatural peace' between two racial faiths of people, and to this day, we face terrorist attacks killing our people. Its the Jihadis who do it but who bred them, who brokered them, who supplied them, who accomodated them as 'citizens' in our country?!
And today, when it comes to their own 'homeland', they advocate exclusivity and outright expansion?! Laughter.
Jewish cosmology of victimhood and ritual sacrifice of children:
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=war_israel_palestine&Number=294817081&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/11cosmo.htm
Their destruction of pagans:
"Here," cried Winfried, as his eyes flashed and his hand lifted his heavy staff, "here is the Thunder-oak; and here the cross of Christ shall break the hammer of the false god Thor."
And yet, how do they feel when that same cult they created is catching up to them, wanting to 'harvest them'?...
LOL, Jews for Jesus
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=717574&contrassID=2
Sure, there's the other evil http://www.meforum.org/article/686
but if even the most tolerant broad-minded Rome felt the former 'crooked', I know my instincts are well placed.
> well, then you're more thickheaded than the average 'liberal' today who worries more about the activities of our CIA than they do objectives of Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah. I put you in the same league with the anti-Semite rednecks I met up in Telemark Norway who asked me how I could live in a country where where "the media and government are run by Jews."
fyi, a small example straight from the Electoral Commission:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Australia/Jews/AJN200203.html
Mind your words before you call or categorize someone a redneck anti-Semite. Sometimes you don't have to be one of those, being pro-pagan/polytheistic more than does it.
> Well, how do you feel about Jews, Scott?
I have no sympathy for double-std. dishonesty.
For the record, I am all for a Zion homeland and for an Arab homeland as far as ethnicity goes, but if each of them expect to practise and impose their monotheistic theocracy singularly on a soil that is not theirs, I say they are 'evil'.
Every people, every kind of people have a right to exist and flourish, even the Semites, and so I condemn any ethnic cleansing and wiping out people just for the heck of it. Israelis have been masters at this stealing water from Palestinian families! And islamists burning off oil wells so no one else should have it either. I have nothing but disgust for such mean mental actions.
@ ET,
Thanks for bringing to attention the sad destruction of another ancient temple-complex.
And a personal question to you, you may refuse to answer if you wish so.
1. Are you going to volunteer yourself in reconstructing Lebanon - architecturally?
2. If so, will you charge your fee for it?
An honest answer would be appreciated.
Hamatreya, Emerson:
http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/transcendentalism/authors/emerson/poems/hamatreya.html
seriously anyone who thinks this is a real discussion anymore needs to follow sotthis links and tell me waht the fuck. Is this shit what archinect feels is acceptable? ive never had this opinion about anything ive seen on these disccussions because i feel you can make an argument about zionism and israel without being antisemitic (and dont start screeching about semetic races, im using a comonly ref. term) but Sotthi has repeatedly posted links to the most retarted shit on the net.
contingency plan?
hehe
wait
i feel it again
hehehe
no no
more like:
HE HE HE
ok, sounds mule-ish now
Sotthi !
actually i was discussing the same issue with a friend
1)- We're checking out with the lebanese army who asked for help just like Hizballah did - but personally i am to help architecturally with the lebanese government not any other party !
2)- I practically work for free.. (if u had any ideas about lebanese wages) hehehe - so definitely won't be charging any fees - will try to help in my spare time !
There's just like a positive energy now in the country that people can feel - media is doing a gr8 job at that - everyone wants to rebuild what has been destroyed the quickest way ever
so hopefully we'll do it in no time - i guess we got used to rebuilding so many times- it has become a piece of cake ! hehehe
caste:> seriously anyone who thinks this is a real discussion anymore needs to follow sotthis links and tell me waht the fuck. Is this shit what archinect feels is acceptable? ive never had this opinion about anything ive seen on these disccussions because i feel you can make an argument about zionism and israel without being antisemitic (and dont start screeching about semetic races, im using a comonly ref. term) but Sotthi has repeatedly posted links to the most retarted shit on the net.
Caste-on-the-lowest-rung crying out to everone for conformity! How pathetic. Shows what "freedom" means to you.
I made it explicitly clear I am not an anti-Semite and all for an ethnic Zion and Arab homeland, and that all kinds of people have the right to exist and flourish, so try and debate my "retarded" links if you can or want to, or else kindly take your whimpering elsewhere. Its undignifying.
Patrick Marckesano: > Jews are ruining the world by being the cause of every war...
No; just every profitable war, and in those wars that serve no purpose than pure malice, they share the hall of fame with the jihadis. And not jews, but Judaism.
"Dostoievsky especially condemned the exploitation of the poor, ignorant, and helpless Russian peasants by the voraciously greedy and utterly heartless Jews. For example:
Thus, Jewry is thriving precisely there where the people are still ignorant, or not free, or economically backward. It is there that Jewry has a champ libre. And instead of raising, by its influence, the level of education, instead of increasing knowledge, generating economic fitness in the native population -- instead of this the Jew, wherever he has settled, has still more humiliated and debauched the people; there humaneness was still more debased and the educational level fell still lower; there inescapable, inhuman misery, and with it despair, spread still more disgustingly. Ask the native population in our border regions: What is propelling the Jew -- and has been propelling him for centuries? You will receive a unanimous answer: mercilessness. 'He has been prompted so many centuries only by pitilessness to us, only by the thirst for our sweat and blood.'"
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/dost.htm
I suppose Dostoevsky was full of shit and retarded too...
> Who cares what your name is.
Well markkissassno, cultured gentlemen do.
ET, thank you for your reply; I wish you the best in your ventures.
E.T.
If you put half the energy you put in this thread into the reconstruction effort, you will have quite a rich portfolio.
I'd urge you to post a blog of that process here.
thx. lany !
but i already do have an ok portfolio ! hehe
dear sotthy, ET.. when u do volonteer work to develop ur country and help u r people .. u deal with any1 gov.. hizbullah. i would remind u that the gov isnt working at alll not rebuilding not helping. during the war the lebanese government was doing less than the average even less...than any average. refugees were helped by local non- governmental organisations (red cross, local defense. lfp party, communist social parties etc.....)
also the rebuilding will be through these organisations and not by the lebanese gov. cse they are busy calculating the money that they ll steel from the aids. anyway...
for me as an architect i already began my volunteer work by helping the red cross and local areas with the rubbel and the cleaning the damaged villages.. we are starting this weekend. in the much less ravaged parts because the most destroyed vilages need to be cleared from mines and non explosed missiles ... also until the israelis are pulled out completely from the area..
regarding the projects as homes.. and shelters we already began proposals and of course it is for free.. no matter what are the wages in lebanon or outside lebanon, thats not the issue its a humanitarian work so if ur in the states helping katrina disaster area or in lebanon it makes no different free work is essential. what u can profit is from bridges and major contracting deals not from little houses and homes.
if u give 2 hours per day for this work.. ull rebuild evthg in a speedy way.... for me im giving my weekends for this .. and i hope i will be giving my full time for this in couple of months. ...
as for lany.. dear,,, what the portfolio has got to do with all this/?? getting a better job u mean? well...dear the pple that work in humanitarian work or the architects that are willing to contribute in anyway for free and spend his/her time helping residents to resettle. arent looking for a portfolio... the guys that have that target..wel l they arent true architects.....
JUSTTTTTT... loved loved loved the Hariri/Jumblatt speeches !
Damn i adore that Jumblatt.. even when he's delusive...hehehe
Patrick Marckesano:> But being a genius as an artist does not except one from making huge philosophical blunders or being a racist.
That's a sorry excuse; and I actually think it cowardly when people only like to pick out bits and pieces of things they approve of and do away with the rest,- these are the kind who can only bear life being pleasurable at every turn.
Neither life, nor a human being is to be engaged in such a fashion I think. What you call 'philosophical blunders' or whatever itty gritty thing that is negative about a person or a life are the very and even necessary elements that constitute the totality of who he is.
An affirmative man learns to take in both - that is wholesome.
"With every increase of greatness and height in man, there is also an increase in depth and terribleness: one ought not to desire the one without the other or rather: the more radically one desires the one, the more radically one achieves precisely the other." - Nietzsche
> The excerpt of his writing that you have provided is a blatant example of anti-Semitism.
No; not to the ones who actually faced such a real oppression.
> This is completely unacceptable rhetoric in the 21st century
Wasn't indulging in one in the slightest. Just calling a spade a spade.
> your use of it as a defense only goes further to illustrate your own racist views.
I haven't been defending anything. Only your equivocation of various things compelled me to write here.
> Also, have you neglected to realize the great difference in historical and cultural context, from Dostoyevsky's day to your own?
I don't see much of a difference, the same repitions for the same reasons by the same moralities - everything's just gotten more 'efficient'.
> Putting responsibility for all the world's ills upon one group is the sure mark of a charlatan
Funny coming from someone who's been demonizing the third reich for every thing!
In any case, I already said in another thread, I don't point fingers at people, just their monotheistic ideaology. None of which can be denied. Ethnic cleansing of a whole group of people whether its by Israelis on Palestinians/Lebanese or vice-versa IS EVIL in my view.
I am all for an ethnic Arab or Israeli state, but I bitterly oppose the imposition of any tyrannical Zionist or Islamic state upon another - such kinds of theological expansionism/encroachment is barbaric of the most evil sort, and anyone defending such actions or even turning a blind eye as you do are the worst kinds of charlatans among charlatans.
> you clearly are incapable of reaching any conclusion other than that which you initially set out to prove.
I didn't set out to prove anything. lol
Its you that's incapable of reaching any conclusion because historical facts cannot simply be shyed away from, and all you can do is sully, and willy-nilly wish whatever disturbs you could just vanish away. What miserable impotency.
> The philosophy you wish to bolster is both an outmoded and archaic. With any luck, such thought will be slowly eradicated from human society--not by repression or censorship but by insurmountable proofs to the contrary. The means is universal education, untarnished by any religion or the politics of hate.
What crap. Pointing out to religion/politics of hate being practised in front of your very rosy liberal nose is neither outmoded nor archaic.
But don't let me stop you dreaming of your un-real utopias in limbo-land. Maybe when your feet touches the ground and you have the conscience, an intellectual honesty and the courage to not live in denial... then maybe your thoughts might bear some if any value.
"Also, have you neglected to realize the great difference in historical and cultural context, from Dostoyevsky's day to your own?"
... the really leads you in the other direction. it implies racism is culturally construed and therefor not an unchangeable principle. this could lead to absolving the nazi rule of all henous racist crimes commited in the name of race simply because they were not racist..being that racism is merely a contemporary notion and they are no longer our contemporaries. you were better off adoting less culturally relative benchmarks.
"I didn't set out to prove anything. lol"
- that be true. s/he's her/his own spokesperson.
finally: "I am all for an ethnic Arab or Israeli state, but I bitterly oppose the imposition of any tyrannical Zionist or Islamic state upon another " hear hear. but i repeat, remove the semitic reference elsewhere. it really didnt make sense.
"I don't know and frankly I don't care."
yes you do. you have gone to great length to deliver responses, many times.
"I have a job by which I make moderate economic gains. And if I spend all my time here debating with an anti-Semite on the folly of his ways, I will lose my apartment and girlfriend"
At what point in this thread did we get to this ?
lol
Patrick:> just think things are a little more complex than your theories about the excesses of Zionism or monotheism can explain.
I haven't heard of your better well-reasoned theories other than a blatant equivocation of all atrocities as Nazi totalitarianism. That's rich. Go ahead by all means and enlighten.
> Again, the nature of an Islamist state like Iran is closer to fascism (as exampled by Germany, Italy, Japan in the mid-twentieth century) than is a state like Israel.
Wrong. Neither Iran nor Isreal are fascist in the proper Axial sense; Fascism wasn't a theocracy. Should you care, I ask you to maintain a discipline for seeing each thing for what it is. Integrating them via look-alike comparisons isn't going to solve anything; in fact, that is likely to prove a hurdle.
> I simply identify with their present form of government and intellectual climate--more than say, that which exists in its neighboring countries.
wow... what a roundabout! you accuse me of an archaic mindset and here you are identifying yourself with a state that still identifies itself with an archaic text filled with wars and espousing hate and destruction of its civilizational time since egypt to this day!!
Israel's very identity and mindset is based on a revealed text of such old old wars and deadly hatred - which should have gone obsolete by now in this 21st century of 'civilized' people, and yet...
Same for the Koran.
How convenient for you that the Islamic countries should just forget their history and identity, while Israel can rampage on!
Now you know why I characterized your politics as both hypocritical and dishonest.
And as to your quibble about climatic conditions being bad in Iran and better than Israel:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1807160,00.html
> National Socialism was a clear regression, with respect to contemporary forms of government (AND the Weimar Republic which it replaced).
I suppose that was why it was so admired equally by Churchill and by Zion to model their own states after such a fashion. It would be an understatement to say the crudity, the sadism, the bigotry of political policies of contemporary semitic governments... I mean there was something noble even in the barbarism of cave-men which these sods lack.
> What I meant was that I forgive a brilliant artist like Dostoyevsky for
You are so full of it. You 'forgive'?! LOL I am sure Dostoevsky gives a hoot. You are going to forgive Voltaire and Renan too?! Nevermind them. Read the views coming on anti-semitism from Israeli defectors and those few honest jews on the truth of their monotheistic faith and the truth about the holocaust and the holocaust 'industry' like shahak or finkelstein.
> his displaying anit-semitism in his day (preceding the enormous lesson of the 20th century's holocaust) while I cannot forgive such expressions in the current.
How perfectly smug! like the jews had a monopoly on 'the' holocaust - nevermind the intentional merciless starvation and oppression of poor russian peasants they put to. If anyone were to challenge the dollar hegemony and the stock market - like Hitler did then or like the Gulf countries now, its an immediate call for war. And the sad fact is, its not even honourable war anymore for honourable reasons, in their lingo war = market competition. Bastards. Why don't you go read the ugly zion protocols or the great nauseating weisthaupt to understand why they spew and breed such hatred in the world.
You cannot forgive such expressions in the current? fyi its a reality in the mideast with a historicism that cannot be conveniently white-washed away. Nothing's been more bloody destructive physiologically and spiritually than the tenets of Moses and his cutthroat army hooligans.
> In parting, let me provide you with a backhanded compliment--very rarely have I encountered somebody so well spoken with such poorly formed conclusions. Maybe if the British Crown had extended the years of their protectorate in your home country, you would have received a better education. I don't know and frankly I don't care.
Spoken like a true rouser [and member] of the rabble! The mob is always a coward, and I equally cease my interest in engaging with you.
I'll play robespierre you play danton
what?
, oh no, whoa, we are mostly guilty but some of us have heavier crimes than others.
why can't we all get along?
i found french government's pledge of additional 200 troops to lebanon almost laughable.
i understand un mandate has to be more direct and clearer about international deployment's objectives, but, 200 troops in addition to existing 200? madame...
turkey who pledged up to 5000 battle experienced troops (bosnia, afganistan, south eastern turkey) is also very sceptical about the un mandate and might withdraw its pledge to a minimum number because of it. turkish public is mainly against sending any troops to lebanon; a-) maybe fighting for and protecting israel who were the agressors in their eyes, b-) lebanon was a host country training the pkk's kurdish terrorists (another man's freedom fighters) against turkey. turkish role in lebanon is irreplacable by any other force both for historical and cultural ties in addition to its well trained and equipped troop quality. i have not studied the un mandate as of yet, but like to hear from people here, who have.
also, a taboo of criticising israel is broken after this war which i think is only good for very survival of israel herself, and might very well be the beginnings of just peace in middle east. maybe i am wishfully dreaming. but we all have to dream a little for the things that don't exist on the ground, yet.
so far, hizbullah is laying low on guerilla action and back to its civilian support organization to make big on its much grown popularity, offering rent support to homeless victims of the israeli carpet bombing and other social services in which they are also very experienced and structured for.
on a related note;
i don't think it is responsible or sophisticated for the president of an very important and powerfull country to use words like 'islamo fascist'. it doesn't serve any purpose other than brewing more animosity towards west and give more power to the hands of radicalized factions in the islamic realm.
sorry, for jumping from branch to branch like a monkey, but lets go back to situation at hand, which is the humanitarian crisis in lebanon, in gaza, and yes, not so much physical but more psycological sense, in israel.
the best thing about fascism is its around every corner
oh and I hate the definition of Fascism you have chosen Patrick. I prefer the following.
Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.
In that context it sounds...well republican
"i found french government's pledge of additional 200 troops to lebanon almost laughable"
It's been almost a week - and yet no one still knows who's sending troops and to do what ?
No country wants its troops there-
then why the hell did they come up with such a resolution ANYWAY !?
Patrick Marckesano:> (Feel free to have the last word
Very well, and I oblige you to the same generosity!
> and even call me nasty names.)
Not interested, never was.
> I never made such an equivocation, Do you know what fascism means?
Do you? Fascism has its origins since the days of the Roman fasces (the lictors). And more politically, during the periods between WWI and WWII, besides Italy and Germany, there were fascist movements with completely different stresses on the 'features' given by your dictionary - in, britain (Mosley), Ireland, Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania, Hungary, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.
So your equivocating totalitarianism and its tyranny with fascism is completely ridiculous. To properly speak, it should suffice to say Iran is a totalitarian tyrant or Israel is one or the policies of US is one. For one thing, there ARE nuances such as an non-totalitarian organic fascist state as was some of the states in the examples given. Bother to look up any of their charters sometimes. In the organic fascist state, racialism is one of its features; racism isn't necessarily an inherent feature of it.
> you racist dult.
Calling nasty names looks like your hobby... I've already said I amn't an anti-Semite. I am not a racist; I am a racialist - I believe in the integrity of every kind of race - semites included.
> I do not see the blatant censorship, state-dictated religion, succession of rule by non-democratic means, suppression and in many cases murder of student protesters that I see in Iran!
I am not here to defend Iran, but I have to disagree with this instantaneous equation of suppression of individual rights = fascism!
More than anything that is so unintelligent and useless to arrive at any meaningful study/solution on things.
"liberalism, in the sense of the emphasis on the individual above and even against that of the nation, actually endangers the individual by undermining the stability of the society which gives him identity, values, purpose and meaning, the social, cultural and biological nexus to which he owes his very being." - de Benoist, the Decay of Modern Society
""A State is organic when it has a centre, and this centre is an idea that shapes the various domains of life in an efficacious way; it is organic when it ignores the division and the autonomisation of the particular and when, by virtue of a system of hierarchical participation, every part within its relative autonomy performs its own function and enjoys an intimate connection with the whole." It is not difficult to see how this differs fundamentally with the individualism and liberalism of the modern age.
"totalitarianism merely represents the counterfeited image of the organic ideal. It is a system in which unity is imposed from the outside, not on the basis of the intrinsic force of a common idea and an authority that is naturally acknowledged, but rather through direct forms of intervention and control, exercised by a power that is exclusively and materially political, imposing itself as the ultimate reason for the system." - Evola, Men among the Ruins
So. There are two kinds.
One. Tyrannical totalitarian - where uniformity is forced and imposed from the outside by means of state intervention and coercion.
Two. Organic fascist - where the rights and the liberty of the individual are seen from the point of view of a collective unity of the nation.
"Fundamentally, classical liberalism was a doctrine which, out of an abstract individual, created the pivot of its survival. In its mildest form it merely emphasized individual freedom of action, and condemned excessive bureaucratic involvement by government. But praiseworthy though its defense of individual freedom was, its claim that the ideal system is that in which there is the least possible emphasis on nationhood leads to situations which in fact endanger the freedom of the individual. In its extreme form, classical liberalism has developed into universal libertarianism, and at this point it comes close to advocating anarchy. It denies the historical concept of the nation state by rejecting the notion of any common interest between individuals who traditionally shared a common heritage. In the place of nationhood it proposes to generate a new international social pattern centered on the individual's quest for optimal personal and economic interest. Within the context of extreme liberalism, only the interplay of individual interests creates a functional society—a society in which the whole is viewed only as a chance aggregate of anonymous particles." - de Benoist.
An organic fascist state lays stress on realizing this collective destiny, where the individual is more than an atom with mere economic interests and rights. His liberty is tied to the collective whole.
Your mindless equivocation of suppression of liberties = fascist is completely wrong.
> Short of advocating violence or overthrow of the government, you can say anything you want in Israel and not be censored.
I see. Is historical revisionism of the holocaust 'legal' in Israel?! So much for freedom of thought and speech.
A typical reaction: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4781369.stm
> So don't tell me that the two are the same or that the government of Iran is not Fascist. It is the VERY DEFINITION OF FASCIST.
The dogmatic absolutism of semitic monotheism is the same to me.
Iran is not Fascist with no qualifiers like there's a single std.! Iran like Israel is clerical totalitarianism/clerical fascism (if you must be satisfied bringing in the word fascist, then do so with a qualifier).
> Besides your little nifty Dostoyevsky quote, have you ever bothered read anything of the Kremlin's own government rule?
So now you want to say the oppression by the czars justifies bolshevik atrocities?! LOL
Another person's painful reality may seem 'nifty' to you and what not, but its a fact. Dosteovsky's isn't the only one I can quote, but I am not here to do your work for you. And yes, I have bothered to read:
"First, we should consider the possibility that responsibility for the crimes of Communism can be traced to a Russian penchant for oppression. However, the tsarist regime of terror against which the Bolsheviks fought pales in comparison uith the horrors committed by the Bolsheviks when they took power. The tsar allowed political prisoners to face a meaningful justice system. The counsel for the defendant could represent his client up to the time of indictment and even beyond, and he could also appeal to national and international public opinion, an option unavailable under Communist regimes. Prisoners and convicts benefited from a set of rules governing the prisons, and the system of imprisonment and deportation was relatively lenient. Those who were deported could take their families, read and write as they pleased, go hunting and fishing, and talk about their "misfortune" with their companions. Lenin and Stalin had firsthand experience of this.
True, riots and insurrections were brutally crushed by the ancien regime. However, from 1825 to 1917 the total number of people sentenced to death in Russia for their political beliefs or activities was 6,360, of whom only 3,932 were executed. This number can be subdivided chronologically into 191 for the years 1825 - 1905 and 3,741 for 1906 - 1910. These figures were surpassed by the
Bolsheviks in March 1918, after they had been in power for only four months. It follows that tsarist repression was not in the same league as Communist dictatorship." - Stephane Courtois, The Black Book of Communism
In any case, this is what I am saying. Whether its the czarist christian orthodoxy, or the bolshevik jews or islamic jihadis, absolutist tyranny is a mindset and feature of semitic monotheism.
> And are you seriously suggesting that Hitler's anti-Semitism was in ANY WAY justified by supposed Jewish control/manipulation/hegemony of the global stock markets?
Why is it that Jews have been persecuted ever since history and constantly driven out? Everybody cannot be anti-semitic, everybody cannot be wrong!
I think Hitler's attitudes and outlook were largely politically motivated in national interests than racist hatred against a race per se. Look up David Irving to read of the German-Jews of whom he held a high opinion of and even promoted them in the national army. Mussolini came to power with Jewish help!
There were Jews who acted like a nation within a nation, practising bigoted dual laws. - these Hitler ordered out.
There were Jews who maintained their religion as a personal matter and were patriotic to uphold German interests first. Germany before jewishness - they were never persecuted.
So stop seeing everything in so black and white. Learn to apply some nuance in everything.
And if you are so objective, bother to read Michael Walsh's Witness to History, or
the role of the Jews in WWI and WWII written by a Jew himself:
http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/freedman.html
> Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during address in the Iranian city of Zahedan... I am supposed to believe that the whole Holocaust thing has been fabricated or at the very least, greatly exaggerated? And that the laws and doctrine of a single religion--Islam--are more worth upholding
Spiegel interview with the Iranian President:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html
I am not defending Iran (its Islamism has been viciously responsible for wiping out all the beautiful aryan traces of ancient Persia), but I don't think anything should be held so sacrosanct like the holocaust that it does not permit the freedom of a healthy skepticism.
The Hindu holocaust under Islamic hands is almost an unrecorded event... but we don't cry wolf at every turn and jump to anyone questioning the WWII holocaust (which included various nationalities) as immediately Nazi, Fascist, Anti-Semite, Jew-hater, Racist, etc.
> are more worth upholding than the lessons of a mass genocide perpetrated by Fascist leaders in mid-twentieth Europe?????
What emotive dogmatic crap.
Mass genocide = Fascist ?!
Lessons are to be learnt from any genocide! For example the genocide celebrated in the Old Testament.
For example, the ethnic cleansing in Africa by that evangelical buffalo Mugabe
Mass genocide is also = Communist/Stalinist/Maoist/Jihadist, etc.
You are the one who's racist! laying down every death and every totalitarianism at the feet of the German/Italian/Japanese people.
You 'bigoted racist dolt', look to yourself first, learn some nuance and stop equivocating every atrocity and every extreme as fascist.
Look up your dictionary for what 'nuance' means, nevermind fascism!
> but you are a racist ass
No, I am not. I don't harbour hate for the jewish/arab ethnicity - and not even their religion (by all means let them practise anything they want on their soil), but the totalitarianism of their faith - which in all my learning is only unique to their monotheistic texts. Ironically for that matter, National Socialism held that it was not! for export. I have abs. no sympathy for theocratic expansions and wiping out of ethnicities like Israel and the Islamists do. F--- them. And god help you if you cannot understand all that, and just want to call anyone who takes you to task on your double-standards as 'racist a--'.
> You are wrong and thankful the International diplomatic community has better perspective than you.
The human instinct is far stronger than all the history of oppression mankind has gone through. Noble values will stand again. Thank Gods, dharma has a better perspective than you.
You may have your one-sided monocled say now.
Good day.
Been reading the discussions here.
sotthi, you gave up too easy he he
i second your views, thanks a lot for the info.
It didn't take too long for the Israelis to break the truce going attheir raiding again.
Scarface, are you a provocator?
Thanks for the email but its not my style commenting on someone at their backs. I don't have anything more to say to Patrick, because when he says I immediately lose my credibility over my consideration of any holocaust revisionism, it being a documented FACT, he just undermines his own self - because the very holocaust he's mourning for - the wars behind it were funded by you-know-who, on both sides as always! So its a little tragi-comical-ironical.
And the other is like everyday news:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=9898
In any case, I concur with him on his last remark, and that's that.
Am very busy, 'll catch up on here later.
this just in from amnesty international, reporting israeli violations on lebanese civilians are deliberate and calling them war crimes.
[url=http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE020182006]"Israel’s assertion that the attacks on the infrastructure were lawful is manifestly wrong. Many of the violations identified in our report are war crimes, including indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks. The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of power and water plants, as well as the transport infrastructure vital for food and other humanitarian relief, was deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy," said Kate Gilmore, Executive Deputy Secretary General of Amnesty International.
[/url]
"Whatever it takes, Israel must always win!"
- Israel Must Win, by
Gilad Atzmon
http://www.counterpunch.org/atzmon08222006.html
August 22, 2006
"You Cannot Promise Victory, Produce a
Humiliating Defeat and Stay in
Power"
Israel Must Win
By GILAD ATZMON
"The ceasefire in Lebanon was holding by a thread
last night after
Israel sanctioned a commando raid in the east of
the country. Kofi
Annan, the United Nations Secretary General, said
Israel had violated
the truce, and he was 'deeply concerned' about
it."
The Guardian
For those familiar with Israeli aggression, the
IDF violation was no
surprise at all. For a week or so, every Israeli
cabinet member and
military official promised publicly that it is
just a question of time
before there is a 'second round'. Indeed, they
must come up with
something. Since the end of the hostilities, all
Israeli political
analysts and polls suggest that Israel's
political and military
leadership failed completely. If elections were
to be held soon, both
Labor and Kadima would simply disappear. It is no
secret that with each
passing day, Olmert's and Peretz's popularity
continually slumps to new
lows. Jerusalem Post.
One may wonder whether the Israelis are changing
their spots, do they
stop approving Olmert's policies just because
peace is what they really
prefer? The influential political commentator Ari
Shavit provided an
answer two weeks ago. Mr Olmert, so he says, had
'failed shamefully'
and should resign. Shavit continues, "You cannot
lead an entire nation
to war promising victory, produce humiliating
defeat and remain in
power." As I mentioned more than once before, the
Israeli politician
has to cope with a demanding, bloodthirsty crowd.
This realisation throws some light over the
reasons behind the failed
Israeli operation in Lebanon just three days ago.
Israelis are simply
desperate to win. But it may also explain why
Israeli government
decided to expand its military operation pretty
much at the same time
it accepted the UN ceasefire resolution. Olmert
knew that he must serve
his voters with what they interpret as a
clear-cut victory. This would
mean either some severe form of revenge with lots
of Arab casualties or
a significant land invasion. Olmert, his
'national unity' government
and the army leadership have to do something that
would cover up four
weeks of disastrous military campaign that failed
to serve the Israeli
public with even a single second of glory.
Indeed, the IDF military offensive doctrine is
grounded on one basic
axiom that was defined by David Ben Gurion in the
early fifties:
whatever it takes, Israel must always win! This
axiom is indeed very
powerful, yet, in reality, the Israeli army can't
provide the goods
anymore. In the last three decades the Israeli
army is constantly being
beaten time after time by enemies that are
getting smaller and smaller.
Yet, one may mention that the IDF isn't very
original in being
defeated. The IDF fails exactly where the
American army has been
failing since Vietnam. Shockingly, the IDF has
managed to copy every
possible American mistake. It religiously adopted
the new American
military philosophy of a 'compact highly
sophisticated fighting force'.
Undeniably, this very doctrine is very effective
in producing some
gigantic collateral damage i.e., war crimes. Yet,
in the long run, it
fails miserably in wining wars. The new American
military doctrine may
win a battle or two but no more than that. In the
most recent years it
has been totally beaten in Afghanistan, Iraq,
Gaza and obviously in
Lebanon.
Though the early stages of the Israeli campaign
in Lebanon looked very
much like the first few days of the second Gulf
War (major air assault
on civilian infrastructure and populated areas),
there is at least one
major noticeable difference. While America can
stand and even ignore
international criticism referring to its own war
crimes, it isn't
willing to suffer much international criticism
for Israeli atrocities.
While in the early stages of the war America was
rushing to provide
Israel with air convoys loaded with its most
lethal conventional
arsenal, we have learned towards the last week of
the war that the
American administration changed its mind, it
suddenly refused to
provide the IDF with a shipment of cluster bombs
because it "would
endanger the civilian population". Seemingly,
there is a limit to what
the Americans are willing to do for their
'closest friend' in the
Middle East.
This is exactly where the Israeli limbo is. In
order to maintain its
status as a winning regional super power, Israel
needs the blind
support of America (politically, financially and
logistically). Yet
American blind support can be grunted to Israel
only if the Jewish
State is indeed a regional super power to start
with. Olmert and his
government are fully aware of this very
complexity. They know that
without being a regional super power in the first
place, they have
nothing to offer their almighty American
brothers. Israel is crucial
for the strategy of the Americans as long as it
can wipe out all its
enemies in six days at the most. The way things
appear now, the Israeli
Army is basically defeated by the two smallest
nations in the Arab
world, the Palestinian and the Lebanese ones.
As much as it clear to the Israelis, it is clear
to the Americans that
unlike the bold Hezbollah, the IDF soldier has
lost his will to fight.
The IDF is a spoiled, confused and tired army
that is specializing
solely in terrorizing civilian populations while
being engaged in
constant tactical withdraw. This Israeli Army is
not trained to win
wars anymore. Instead, its tank battalions are
mainly engaged in daily
shelling of schools and hospitals. Its Air Force
uses the best American
fighter planes to flatten neighborhoods and shoot
deadly rockets at
cars in the streets of Gaza. Its command units
are expert in abducting
democratically elected middle-aged Palestinian
politicians. The IDF is
basically a heavy army specializing in merciless
regional bullying.
Yet, it cannot win a war, and as such it has
nothing to offer the
American empire.
But the Israeli military defeat has some further
implications. Israel
without a victorious army, has nothing to offer
to world Jewry either.
It can never present itself as the ultimate
cosmic Judeo bunker. It is
pretty shocking to prospect the relative silence
of the infamous
Zionist media shield. While just six weeks ago
the loud supporters of
Anglo-American interventionism were still pushing
for democracy in the
Arab world and beyond, they were enthusiastic
about killing in the name
of human rights and about Israel being the only
democracy in the Middle
East. Somehow, since the war began, since Israel
revealed once again
its murderous tendencies and Hezbollah proved to
be the new Robin Hood,
these voices are caving in. Many among the global
Zionists do already
understand now that the Anglo-American assault on
the Arab world just
suffered a major blow. Some of them probably
grasp that it is just a
question of time before more and more Europeans
and Americans join the
sacred battle against the Americanized Global
Zionism, i.e.,
neo-conservatism.
The recent victory of the Hezbollah therefore
must be realized as a
major event with some global implications. While
the Hezbollah regards
itself a paramilitary organization concerned
mainly with some local
issues having to do with Israeli expansionism, it
has managed to cause
a serious blow to neo-conservatism as a political
praxis as well as a
philosophy. It has beaten the Zionized
Anglo-American worldview.
Standing up to Zionism and Americanism, it is the
Lebanese, the
Palestinians, the Iraqis, the Afghanis and the
Iranians who happen to
be at the vanguard of the war for humanity and
humanism. For those who
are yet to be convinced that this indeed the
case, I will mention that
the fact that it is Iran who rushed to pay 3
billion dollars to rebuild
Lebanon after the destruction made by 'American
interventionism' leaves
no room for interpretation. While America spreads
destruction and death
all over the world, it is Iran and the Hezbollah
that offers a new
beginning.
Olmert knows very well that if Israel doesn't win
this war, it is
global Zionism that is defeated, he knows as well
that without the
backing of global Zionism, Israel is basically a
dead entity. Olmert
knows that without America, it won't take long
before Israel turns into
an historic event. Israel will have to win its
mighty regional power
status whatever it takes. Israeli is indeed in
the very eye of the
neo-conservative storm. And the Hezbollah is
threatening something far
greater than just the Jewish State. As the
Israelis keep telling us,
the fight in Lebanon will resume soon and every
European leader knows
it.
Even now, they all know who is going to be the
aggressor when violence
spreads again in the region. They are all clever
enough to hesitate
about whether they want to send their soldiers to
the region. They know
that if Israel must win, it is better to stay out
of its way.
Gilad Atzmon was born in Israel and served in the
Israeli military. He
is the author of two novels: A Guide to the
Perplexed and the recently
released My One and Only Love. Atzmon is also one
of the most
accomplished jazz saxophonists in Europe. His
recent CD, Exile, was
named the year's best jazz CD by the BBC. He now
lives in London and
can be reached at: atz@...
Scarface, are you a provocator?
sotthi, you a hot babe? show some eh i mean fire he he
scarface,
I think you'r slowly moving in the direction of yetanotherscaronface
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.