I think by now, every1 in the world has heard somehow of the war on Lebanon , and no this time its not over the Hezbollah only...
What Zionist bastards claim to be a war to eliminate terror has ended with a war on all lebanese infrastructure, tourism and many cities which do not even harbour Hizbollah !
For those of you who think (hizbollah started the fight by kidnapping 2 soldiers I say... Pls wake up and dnt be as idiotic as Bush - do u actually think that such a war was planned in 6 hours ?)
For those of you who would like to support the Lebanese people which r (in deep shit - thx to the israelis - oh and lets not forget, americans, russians, germans, etc. etc.. mainly the g8 leaders, who support the israeli war over lebanon one way or the other, and even the ppl in these states which were very useful in their demonstrations not to make a war over Iraq but yet can't move their fat asses on the streets of their towns to stop the slaughter of civilians which by the way has reached the number of 120 dead ppl - mostly children and women which indeed are the ones who are at the borders somehow fighting the israelis) please send ur help to this bank account
SGBL Sin El Fil
001-004-361-236446-01-3
SWIFT: SGLILBBX
Thank you for your support
P.S. Even a dollar might help - hell ur taxes r ending up in the israeli tanks and airplanes.. so a dollar wont kill u !
contingency war plans are nothing new. i am sure the israelis have plans for every possible scenario. the usa had naval blockade plans against england during trade wars of the 1920's. oh by the way hezbollah killed 248 marines in 1983 so a dollar might kill me...
plus, 'zionist bastards' sounds juuuuuust a touch racist and besides, reasonable people understand that this conflict is nuanced and complicated.
yes it totally sucks shit that Lebanese civilians have been and will be killed by Israeli action and that Israeli citizens have and will be killed by Hezbollah rockets. The reality is that the incursion into Lebanon basically DOES only concern Hezbollah. This isn't a war against Lebanon, it's against Hezbollah.
In case anyone forgot, the Syrians and pro-Syrian Lebanese govt were run out of town a year or so ago. those goons were replaced by a weak, but democratic government who is, as we see, hamstrung at times by the vocal, radical minority extremist military wing of Hezbollah. It's not in any way in Israel's interest to threaten the democratic government of Lebanon and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
if you're going to be hyperbolic about this, then you really aren't any better than the strictly and always pro-Israel crowd.
Also, Vado Retro is totally right about contingency war plans aren't new and most would argue are generally sensible. This is what responsible governments do. It's no secret to anyone that Israel has been looking for an excuse to go after Hezbollah.
No, actually sympathy was not something i would expect from ppl like YOU ... i see ur bombs falling over my head by the minute here.. so SYMPATHY... PLEASEEEEEE...
i Just put the address for donations, to help people in need (food-milk- basic stuff like that)
but i guess magpie Thats TOO much for u to understand... !
P.S. Vado retro - yes 248 marines were killed in the 1982 - but 200 thousand lebanese were killed by american rockets... (do i need to comment on that ?)
AND THE MONEY IS NOT FOR WARRRRRRRRRRRRR
ITS FOR NEEDS - FOOD , SHELTER .. ETC. ETC.
I don't c ppl opening bank accounts (in FRANCE) to hel HIZBOLLAH !!!!!!!!!!!!
(yes it totally sucks shit that Lebanese civilians have been and will be killed by Israeli action and that Israeli citizens have and will be killed by Hezbollah rockets. The reality is that the incursion into Lebanon basically DOES only concern Hezbollah. This isn't a war against Lebanon, it's against Hezbollah.)
please spare me the crap !!!! - sorry to be so rude - but as i mentioned previously, im in a state where there is no Hizbollah - and i mean literally not 1 single guerrilla !!! SO y am i in the shelter??? and Y am i the one targeted here again????????
You cannot be for real, but even if you were in fact in a shelter, I would seriously question your reasoning for posting your dire situation on ARCHINECT! This is hardly the appropriate forum to for you to post your distasteful rhetoric and expect people to send money to an anonymous bank account!
I knew it was a waste of time to ask ppl to help the southerns in Lebanon !!!!
I rest my case, hell I'm asking an ignorant cowboy and his ppl for help>>>>
What was i Thinking??????
maybe its useless to drop a few points in a murky lake of media fed cliches but then again:
"oh by the way hezbollah killed 248 marines in 1983 so a dollar might kill me..."
the american military force was supporting a lebanese militia (the lebanese phalangists-a christian rightwing militia that sought to 'sanitize' lebanon from pro-arab pro islam elements back then) against another; perhaps naively, they ended up siding with one faction against another and not the national establishment (which did not exist at that time) against terrorists. so I see no reason why the marines shouldnt have been equally fair game...or at least as unfair game as others in lebanon. either u refuse the very premise of murder, or you accept the rule of the game. lebanon has its share of pale blue eyed innocent young men (yum) who died unjustly en masse. furthermore, no it can't kill you dramaqueen since your only confrontation is a televised one.
a logical point of dispute: 'zionist bastard' cannot be racist since zionism is an ideology, not a race or ethnicity and neither is it , or should it be, synonymous with jewry.
google it if you don't get it; elemantary Watson.
Hezbollah is a significant organic part of lebanese society, economically and socially. personally i am not 'into' their religious subculture but calling it an iranian group is not just a misrepresentation of the party but also of the lebanese society's setup. would u refer to lebanese graduates of u.s. universities as americans (provided they werent given the citizenship of course)? similarly, with regards to the iranian connection there, are those other who go to iran to study in their religious institutions, by all means a legitimate and personal quest. dragging up the anti-u.s. sentiment propogated by iran is something else altogether. this does not make one 'iranian'. it is,this too, a moronic illogical argument.
there is almost no group in lebanon that is not, in one way or the other, affiliated to and reliant upon the cultural, moral, economic or whatnot support of a second country. this is the bane of the country. it is, in the very basic, cultural. lebanon is both a miniscule country and the possibility of fracturing into other countries. this is its charm and its flaw.
furthermore, it is a myth that hezbollah is the only armed party in lebanon. all old-guard militias-turned-political have a stash of ammunition hidden dormant somewhere..and if this is not the case, there is always the possibility of gaining them. the difference is that hezbollah sees itself as having an external-internal cause (liberating the rest of lebanon and generations of lebanese (not hezbollah in essence) prisoners held in israeli camps). it is also the one of the most, if not the most, influential and organized group in lebanon and its goverment. they are also hated (as shiites, as moslems, whatever) by many other lebanese (sunnite, druze and maronite) and this should not be a surprise. they are a very powerful shiite force. however, all this does not warrant preclusion from the lebanese community.
en fin, ET, you seriously don't believe someone is going to send you money just because you posted a Sin El Fil address? and anyways, people are going to die this way, always, anywhere. just please as a favour, don't hold stupid opinions..let me go watch the beeming G8 leaders smile and laugh now, they look so happy its contagious.
1)- where did u c any racism... go read abt zionism and RACE b4 sharing ur stupidity with us !
2)-is ET a designer..?? no !! he's not - ur so right
hes just an architect with a masters in urban design.. oh im sorry its just a designer's website !!!!!!
3)-I think i said enough abt me
4)- ET go home???? well FUCKIN LEAVE MY HOME !!! how about that?
i'll agree that i think israel is way out of line, and i feel helpless because i know that our gov't is going to have a hard time finding what position to take.
but i'm still not sending money to an anonymous acct...
didn't want to post for a thread with such a racist undertone...
but still
ET: what the Israeli govt. does is wrong.
at the same time it's exactly what Hizbollah and their Syrian and Irani sponsors wanted them to do. It was a trap and the Israeli were stupid enough to react as the were expected to.
The consequence is that a country, which only recently got rid of Syrian influence/oppression will fall back in old perceptions of cause-and-effect. (something very obvious in ET's posts)
I hope that there is a way, how Hizbollah will become a part of the political-system in Lebanon (included into a multi-ethnic goverment) and quit their terrorist activities.
At the same time I am sure that Syrian/Irani influence on the one side and the stupidity of Israeli/U.S.-leaders will prevent this.
i am well aware of why we were there during the sunny times of ronald reagan. believe me i was against israels invasion of lebanon at the time. but if you think israel is just going to sit back and let hezbollah shoot missiles into haifa then you had better wake up. the fact that lebanese government has no means to control hezbollah means that israel right or wrong whatever is going to.
"but i'm still not sending money to an anonymous acct..."
Due to the comment - i should clarify that the bank account belongs to the free patriotic movement which is one of the major lebanese parties ! http://www.tayyar.org
their website and it has an english version with a news update!
hezbollah only started bombing haifa after israel started bombing citizens and residential districts after the kidnapping of the soldiers. in actual fact, it waited a couple of days to signal its intention of only bombing haifa as an 'eye for an eye' policy.
israel still occupies lebanese territory and holds thousands of lebanese in jail camps as an aftermath of its occupation. many of them have been in there for over 20 years and israel refuses to set them free.no fair trials if any trials at all. hundred or thousands of families have had to go on without fathers and brothers and many mothers and daughters. hezbollah is not a consequence of iran, it is a consequence of israeli's history in lebanon. this is the simplist fact. hezbollah is an organized reponse on the part of predominantly shiite southern lebanese, not iran or syria. israel has only allowed prisoners (or more accurately POWs) off in exchange for kidnapped israelis. despite the potests, the rules were written by both parties.
i do not care that israel isnt going to let hezbollah blah blah. this is a minor detail. the more important fact was this was going to happen. i do not wish to delve into justifying why israel's actions are acts of terrorism, either someone is intelligent enough to get that by her/himself or not. But what is more interesting is the internal lebanese predicament; to read the discourse of the different relevant sociopolitical figurheads, many of whom were previous warlords. wounds that never heal.
Does it appear to anyone else that when a society looks on their women as second class citizens, that society fosters oppression and closed thinking.
What is happening in the mosques? Those young men, 20-30 year olds, come out after their mosque teachings with bulging eyes, veins popping, and yelling.
They want the rest of the world to convert to Islam?
There is evidence that the female in the Hebrew societ
Interesting that some of the comments on here seem to have an anti-Israel bias while also totally glossing over the Palestinian militant/Hezbollah actions. Is it even possible to have a debate over the conflict? Can everyone admit that they've already chosen sides by now?
Did this begin with the "alleged shelling" of civilians on a beach in Gaza? I have heard that the explosion could have been caused by mines placed by militants after the beach was used by the IDF to land commandos. So I can either pick whichever one I want, or I can go even further back...to the second intifada...the first...and find something that one side did that seems more disgusting than what the other side did.
What is an "appropriate" response? Was it appropriate for Palestinian militants to use the newly-ceded Gaza strip as a rocket launching pad? This is a spider web of nastiness, but how well has diplomacy worked for the past decade? How do you deal with fundamentally perverted groups like Hezbollah or Hamas?
What is happening in the mosques? Those young men, 20-30 year olds, come out after their mosque teachings with bulging eyes, veins popping, and yelling.
This is such a racist statement !!!!!!!!!!
and no, it's not as u see on TV or in MOVIES that things happen in life..
I've been living for 10 years now in Beirut, and never seen that happen !!!
But once again, Media has its way to get the false image there !!!
But yes I agree that women are treated as second class citizens in the Arab World - tho not in Lebanon !
ET:
How is THAT a racist statement?
How did Lebanon come to treat there women differently?
Why do many Arabs want to leave their country for Lebanon?
Why do muslims as far away as Southeast Asia want to completely destroy Jewish civilization?
Why can't a Christian or an athiest visit Mecca, but an Arab (Muslim) can visit the Vatican?
Is it the Western media that makes the Isalm look like a bunch of juvenile deliquents?
Who wants to spend the afterlife make love to virgins? Talk about a high school boy's dream.
How did Lebanon come to treat there women differently?
how many times have u been to Lebanon ? to come up with such prejudice ?????
Why do many Arabs want to leave their country for Lebanon?
"Lebanon is the only democratic country in the region" quoting the cowboy !
Why do muslims as far away as Southeast Asia want to completely destroy Jewish civilization?
"why did bush call the war on iraq a Cruisade"
Oh no ! sorry that was a mistake - he didnt mean it that way !
Is it the Western media that makes the Islam look like a bunch of juvenile deliquents?
i've been living for nearly 10 yrs now in Beirut - most of my friends r muslims tho I'm not - i don't c them as "juvenile delinquents"
Oh please... both sides are as bad as eachother. Both extremish bigotted groups polarised by history and rants (like above) - Perhaps one main difference is that one side openly wishes the other washed into the sea for whatever reason. There's no logic under those circumstances - just rage.
ET - for your own sanity and ours, do express some form of openness and grasp for the thinking and reasoning behind both sides. You may get the openminded majority behind you - and maybe some cash.
please, to anyone who has posted any kind of overzealous remark on this thread, take a step outside of yourself for one second, take a deep breath, and try to initiate some civilized discourse. this going back and forth just perpetuates the problem.
domi - openminded u say !!
1)- well cool let me have u under a 60 bomb/hour attack then we might go hang out at starbucks and talk abt openmindedness !!!
2)- i seriously dont even care about a majority behind me ! it all started with a bunch of idiots like me on the net trying to do their best under the stress of war - not having a beer checking email- to help the ppl under the blockade (its helping PPL - not political parties)
3)- orEqual - red cross or any organization working in Lebanon would do .. i seriously don't think it's a funny joke to say i need a laptop when ppl in lebanon need shelter and kids need milk !!
Islam's intent has been to be aggresively expansionist centuries longer than the U.S. Let the world become completely muslim, only the wealthy men can marry- one huband for 200 wives. You know who the husbands will be? Arabs. Because they will be the only first class citizens in the great new world. You see how it works, ET? Open your eyes. You have been brainwashed for far too long!!! This isn't your fault. You need help! Don't try to place your aggrevation on other people because of your lack of knowledge. You can change. It is not beyond your ability. Show some backbone and all will be well. Take the chains off and set yorself free. Let the chickens come home to roost, they will provide you with eggs and fried chicken for dinner!!! This is a brave new world we are living in. We have the tools to make you better. Try not to blame yourself. You have not completed your project. Get back to work, the deadline is in three days. I am working to the best of my ability. Have you received the fax from Civil. No, but I talked to them 5 minutes ago. We have a problem with the piers and the existing water line in the same location. What is that Archinect on your screen? Oh that is flashing research. Make sure that underground water line is flashed to the best of your ability. That I will do.
I'll take a slice of boysenberry pie with a scoop of vanilla...
All wars are economic competion with a super sized side order of civilian death to go. Look at Bush's grab at Iraqi oil...
Destroying infrastructure will prolong the conflict by inflicting economic harm to the entire country. The best hope for peace is creating affluence in neighborhood near israel. Rebuilding the infrastructure should be core to Israel's exit strategy.
A well fed syrian, iranian, or palestian population has no need to hate or destroy! When then have sufficient resouces to take care of their family, populations tend to stabilize politically.
the bigger issue is climate change- the economies of the middle east (and the world) are tied to available water/rain fall. Drought is the most pressing issue that is being overlooked for short term security!
ET, look at it this way, if lebanon plays its cards right (after israel withdraws, and it will be forced to do so soon), lebanon can have:
1. financial aid from world powers to reconstruct and develop lebanese economy and infrastructure, and u.n. military aid to insure security and political stability.
2. a democratic government which excercises its sovereignty over the entire lebanon (including the southern districts formerly dominated by possibly soon to be former hizbolla)
3. a POW swap with israel allowing all brothers and fathers to return home to their families.
think, you could of had that and more long ago. i mean, the isrealis havent been occupying any lebanese land for the past few years, and when warring nations make peace there is always a full POW swap. these are basic facts.
we all know what brought on israel's current (totally unproportional, yet totally unavoidable) strike in lebanon. but what has prevented lebanon from seeking peace with israel up until now? is it hizbolla? syria? iran? or is it just hatred of the "zionist bastards"?
while israel has proven it can make bitter war, but that it can make peace too, even with bitter enemies like jordan and egypt, what will lebanon prove to the world a few months from now?
ET:
Let me tell you something, mister, sister, or whatever, you just insulted me, my family, my heritage and my god that I was born to. This action, that was cleanly premeditated, will have dire consequences. The call to arms has been made as ordained by the fore standard bearers at large, after the last virgin has been defiled, and you will not live to regret your trespasses as we overcome those who trespass against us. Lead us not into virginal temptation but deliver the virgins to us for thyn is provider of virgins forever and ever.
And this means all you and you know who you are. The sword has been drawn!!!!
While I am in fact sympathetic to your cause and I do understand the beauty of Lebanon, I would urge you to read your first post with a little self-criticism.
Did you think that insulting people and asking them for money in the same sentence would work?
All issues aside, the character issue that sets the tone for the post is inseparable from the overall tone of the problem.
whats wrong with having virgins fuck you. quite a broadminded thing for religion. and hey, if you can't get laid in the here and now, how cool that you get another chance in the thereafter with virgins. wouldnt you just kill for the chance? personally, i prefer hot sluts.
the tayyar is a credible (or at least as credible as they get there) lebanese party, though its topdog Aoun must be on some form of bipolar medication that he occasionely forgets to ingest. they are currently giving assistance to refugees from the south and the southern suburb of beirut. so the money could end up helping them, or could end up making more orange flags. orange is so 3 seasons ago.
What people fail to realize is that the US is behind this entire Israeli operation. Is it just a coincidence that all this bombing started July 13, one day after Iran was supposed to answer regarding their nuclear weapons program? The US is hoping that Iran and Syria get involved in this situation, so they can attack and do to Iran and Syria what they have already done to Afghanistan and Iraq. Which is to create a mess only for the financial benefit of a few who run this country.
While the request for funds seemed extremely suspect, I'm glad you have continued to post on this thread. It's an interesting read.
I am one of, what I presume to be, a hundred million Americans who are watching these developments with both increasing voyeuristic interest but yet greater indifference to all things Middle East. What a mess. I sincerely wish you luck in both the short- and long-term.
I'm interested in knowing:
Are you still in Beirut? Is there perhaps a safer place for you to go for the time being?
This is an interesting thread. I think it has a lot to do with architecture and especially American Architecture.
Here, thorough the miracle of the internet, you have someone who could quite possibly really be sitting in a bomb shelter typing on a laptop (I’m holding ET to a lower standard of level-headedness than I would expect from my non-bombed colleagues. Cellar Door Whore will be our level headed Lebanese, ET can emote all he wants until they sound “all clear†as far as I’m concerned). They could also be a colleague in another country doing what architects do in that country. Instead of trying to connect with this guy and figure out what’s going on and what to do (like good designers would) we disbelieve his existence, or want to talk about pie or go into this sophomoric college kid hand wringing relativism about seeing both sides or some sort of bullshit arm-chair punditry which invariably excuses our staying in our arm-chair.
I don’t hang out much with Islamisist types (they don’t drink so what would we do) but I’m sure they suck just as about as bad as the blood-thirsty, glassy-eye Zionists fanatics I have run into (funny how many of them are rich kids from New York). That’s my college kid relativism for you.
I do however know a number of Israelis who actively resist the war (often a great personal cost) or who have left the country to avoid being a part of it and these people seem to represent the side that I would go to the barricades for. Not the Israeli peace movement (despite all those tax dollars it’s not my struggle, however heroic) but the youth who want life and a future for themselves and architects who want to build culture. Killing people and blowing up infrastructure should be as against architects constitution as doing harm is to a doctor. I believe that there are partisans of my side sitting in bomb shelters (or unwillingly behind sandbags) on both sides of the border.
In terms of fighting phalangists, there was a generation of intellectuals and professionals like us who had to decide whether to go fight in Spain or stay home and work. This is could be as serious but perhaps even more complex a problem.
What do we do? For architecture? For our colleagues, both level-headed and wigged out, on which ever regime of institutionalized violence they struggle under? What would real interest rather than voyeurism look like?
Et: you better be for real after all that. What’s going on over there? What are people going to do? What’s being talked about in your bomb shelter (besides the milk money situation- I’ll check out your site, no promises)?
If they want orange flags maybe some of these Princeton people can figure something out.
ok ! well to answer some of the questions (im sorry i couldnt earlier since bombing the power plants killed my connection throughout the night)
1)- to make one thing clear cellardoor whore is right about the orange party- they are one of the most credible parties in Lebanon and i actually took their bank account used currently for donations or help - although i dnt think id get along with the party's political views.
2)- Well yes I am ok for now - shelter / home (no work hehe) thats the ongoing routine 4 now (mostly the net or the news )
3)- What are people going to do : (newstreamlinemodel)
well heres the big problem
we're facing a huge dilemma -
we should all know that Hizbollah is part of the social structure in Lebanon (its not like Afghanistan where all u have is The taliban - go kill them like on a PS game and its over) it would be literally HELL if the lebanese partys didnt agree together on how to solve the problem by spreading the lebanese army on the borders with BOTH israel and syria - disarming Hizbollah- and integrating it into the "lebanese" government -differently than the case today, where the government is only an american muppet show, so obviously seen due to its failure ro hold any responsibilities (or at least this is what I believe in)
But all that aside... ppl should know that such an attack by Israel against Lebanon will only increase the Syrian-Iranian view of the crisis and ask Hizbollah to keep its arms cause as the lifelong excuse goes :"Israel will always strike Lebanon" - which after this latest war im starting to believe.
The interesting part of this is though, that we hear Israel say they're fighting the Hizbollah - they're not fighting Lebanon .
I hear the cowboy say : Lebanon is a fragile democratic country -we support the gvment , and yet he says lately in the G8 "I should get Kofi to call Assad, it's only one phone call to end this shit"
WELL HELLO.... it;s been 7 days , 200 ppl dead on the lebanese side, around 20 to 30 maybe on the israeli , lebanese infrastructure completely destroyed in the south and in Beirut, what the hell r u waiting 4 to make that SHITTY phone call of urs?????????
Plus i seriously dont get how Israel hitting the Jounieh Port affected war on so called Terror - its like saying Hizbollah are in L.A. and they bomb New York.. its like what the hell just happened?? did i miss smthg?????
There;s a blockade so u can;t go anywhere...
The ports were all bombed.. The airport is destroyed- haven't cn it yet since id be shocked- but its closed 4 now. and Israel bombed all roads that would lead to Syria ... so that leaves u with a small country of 10452 sq.km.
It's basically like a fish tank and we're waiting 4 our turn !
hehehe
War on Lebanon by bastard Zionists !
I think by now, every1 in the world has heard somehow of the war on Lebanon , and no this time its not over the Hezbollah only...
What Zionist bastards claim to be a war to eliminate terror has ended with a war on all lebanese infrastructure, tourism and many cities which do not even harbour Hizbollah !
For those of you who think (hizbollah started the fight by kidnapping 2 soldiers I say... Pls wake up and dnt be as idiotic as Bush - do u actually think that such a war was planned in 6 hours ?)
For those of you who would like to support the Lebanese people which r (in deep shit - thx to the israelis - oh and lets not forget, americans, russians, germans, etc. etc.. mainly the g8 leaders, who support the israeli war over lebanon one way or the other, and even the ppl in these states which were very useful in their demonstrations not to make a war over Iraq but yet can't move their fat asses on the streets of their towns to stop the slaughter of civilians which by the way has reached the number of 120 dead ppl - mostly children and women which indeed are the ones who are at the borders somehow fighting the israelis) please send ur help to this bank account
SGBL Sin El Fil
001-004-361-236446-01-3
SWIFT: SGLILBBX
Thank you for your support
P.S. Even a dollar might help - hell ur taxes r ending up in the israeli tanks and airplanes.. so a dollar wont kill u !
not until you learn how to use a comma.
contingency war plans are nothing new. i am sure the israelis have plans for every possible scenario. the usa had naval blockade plans against england during trade wars of the 1920's. oh by the way hezbollah killed 248 marines in 1983 so a dollar might kill me...
you don't stop a war by giving money to one of the parties, ET.
plus, 'zionist bastards' sounds juuuuuust a touch racist and besides, reasonable people understand that this conflict is nuanced and complicated.
yes it totally sucks shit that Lebanese civilians have been and will be killed by Israeli action and that Israeli citizens have and will be killed by Hezbollah rockets. The reality is that the incursion into Lebanon basically DOES only concern Hezbollah. This isn't a war against Lebanon, it's against Hezbollah.
In case anyone forgot, the Syrians and pro-Syrian Lebanese govt were run out of town a year or so ago. those goons were replaced by a weak, but democratic government who is, as we see, hamstrung at times by the vocal, radical minority extremist military wing of Hezbollah. It's not in any way in Israel's interest to threaten the democratic government of Lebanon and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
if you're going to be hyperbolic about this, then you really aren't any better than the strictly and always pro-Israel crowd.
Also, Vado Retro is totally right about contingency war plans aren't new and most would argue are generally sensible. This is what responsible governments do. It's no secret to anyone that Israel has been looking for an excuse to go after Hezbollah.
If you are looking for sympathy, forget it.
No, actually sympathy was not something i would expect from ppl like YOU ... i see ur bombs falling over my head by the minute here.. so SYMPATHY... PLEASEEEEEE...
i Just put the address for donations, to help people in need (food-milk- basic stuff like that)
but i guess magpie Thats TOO much for u to understand... !
P.S. Vado retro - yes 248 marines were killed in the 1982 - but 200 thousand lebanese were killed by american rockets... (do i need to comment on that ?)
AND THE MONEY IS NOT FOR WARRRRRRRRRRRRR
ITS FOR NEEDS - FOOD , SHELTER .. ETC. ETC.
I don't c ppl opening bank accounts (in FRANCE) to hel HIZBOLLAH !!!!!!!!!!!!
(yes it totally sucks shit that Lebanese civilians have been and will be killed by Israeli action and that Israeli citizens have and will be killed by Hezbollah rockets. The reality is that the incursion into Lebanon basically DOES only concern Hezbollah. This isn't a war against Lebanon, it's against Hezbollah.)
please spare me the crap !!!! - sorry to be so rude - but as i mentioned previously, im in a state where there is no Hizbollah - and i mean literally not 1 single guerrilla !!! SO y am i in the shelter??? and Y am i the one targeted here again????????
ET,
You cannot be for real, but even if you were in fact in a shelter, I would seriously question your reasoning for posting your dire situation on ARCHINECT! This is hardly the appropriate forum to for you to post your distasteful rhetoric and expect people to send money to an anonymous bank account!
Please stop wasting people's time.
Well..
I knew it was a waste of time to ask ppl to help the southerns in Lebanon !!!!
I rest my case, hell I'm asking an ignorant cowboy and his ppl for help>>>>
What was i Thinking??????
1. I am surpised the editors allow such racist, venomous trash posted here.
2. ET just signed up today to post this..is he a designer? I doubt it.
3. ET, why not identify yourself.
4. ET.............Go Home.
maybe its useless to drop a few points in a murky lake of media fed cliches but then again:
"oh by the way hezbollah killed 248 marines in 1983 so a dollar might kill me..."
the american military force was supporting a lebanese militia (the lebanese phalangists-a christian rightwing militia that sought to 'sanitize' lebanon from pro-arab pro islam elements back then) against another; perhaps naively, they ended up siding with one faction against another and not the national establishment (which did not exist at that time) against terrorists. so I see no reason why the marines shouldnt have been equally fair game...or at least as unfair game as others in lebanon. either u refuse the very premise of murder, or you accept the rule of the game. lebanon has its share of pale blue eyed innocent young men (yum) who died unjustly en masse. furthermore, no it can't kill you dramaqueen since your only confrontation is a televised one.
a logical point of dispute: 'zionist bastard' cannot be racist since zionism is an ideology, not a race or ethnicity and neither is it , or should it be, synonymous with jewry.
google it if you don't get it; elemantary Watson.
Hezbollah is a significant organic part of lebanese society, economically and socially. personally i am not 'into' their religious subculture but calling it an iranian group is not just a misrepresentation of the party but also of the lebanese society's setup. would u refer to lebanese graduates of u.s. universities as americans (provided they werent given the citizenship of course)? similarly, with regards to the iranian connection there, are those other who go to iran to study in their religious institutions, by all means a legitimate and personal quest. dragging up the anti-u.s. sentiment propogated by iran is something else altogether. this does not make one 'iranian'. it is,this too, a moronic illogical argument.
there is almost no group in lebanon that is not, in one way or the other, affiliated to and reliant upon the cultural, moral, economic or whatnot support of a second country. this is the bane of the country. it is, in the very basic, cultural. lebanon is both a miniscule country and the possibility of fracturing into other countries. this is its charm and its flaw.
furthermore, it is a myth that hezbollah is the only armed party in lebanon. all old-guard militias-turned-political have a stash of ammunition hidden dormant somewhere..and if this is not the case, there is always the possibility of gaining them. the difference is that hezbollah sees itself as having an external-internal cause (liberating the rest of lebanon and generations of lebanese (not hezbollah in essence) prisoners held in israeli camps). it is also the one of the most, if not the most, influential and organized group in lebanon and its goverment. they are also hated (as shiites, as moslems, whatever) by many other lebanese (sunnite, druze and maronite) and this should not be a surprise. they are a very powerful shiite force. however, all this does not warrant preclusion from the lebanese community.
en fin, ET, you seriously don't believe someone is going to send you money just because you posted a Sin El Fil address? and anyways, people are going to die this way, always, anywhere. just please as a favour, don't hold stupid opinions..let me go watch the beeming G8 leaders smile and laugh now, they look so happy its contagious.
Landman !!!
1)- where did u c any racism... go read abt zionism and RACE b4 sharing ur stupidity with us !
2)-is ET a designer..?? no !! he's not - ur so right
hes just an architect with a masters in urban design.. oh im sorry its just a designer's website !!!!!!
3)-I think i said enough abt me
4)- ET go home???? well FUCKIN LEAVE MY HOME !!! how about that?
wow ... so surreal !!!...
" The reality is that the incursion into Lebanon basically DOES only concern Hezbollah"
That kid is a Hizbollah leader ! and the burned car is one of their tanks ;)
http://www.gulfnews.com/indepth/israelattacks/Lebanon/10053311.html
And yes another violent guerrilla there !...
i'll agree that i think israel is way out of line, and i feel helpless because i know that our gov't is going to have a hard time finding what position to take.
but i'm still not sending money to an anonymous acct...
didn't want to post for a thread with such a racist undertone...
but still
ET: what the Israeli govt. does is wrong.
at the same time it's exactly what Hizbollah and their Syrian and Irani sponsors wanted them to do. It was a trap and the Israeli were stupid enough to react as the were expected to.
The consequence is that a country, which only recently got rid of Syrian influence/oppression will fall back in old perceptions of cause-and-effect. (something very obvious in ET's posts)
I hope that there is a way, how Hizbollah will become a part of the political-system in Lebanon (included into a multi-ethnic goverment) and quit their terrorist activities.
At the same time I am sure that Syrian/Irani influence on the one side and the stupidity of Israeli/U.S.-leaders will prevent this.
i am well aware of why we were there during the sunny times of ronald reagan. believe me i was against israels invasion of lebanon at the time. but if you think israel is just going to sit back and let hezbollah shoot missiles into haifa then you had better wake up. the fact that lebanese government has no means to control hezbollah means that israel right or wrong whatever is going to.
"but i'm still not sending money to an anonymous acct..."
Due to the comment - i should clarify that the bank account belongs to the free patriotic movement which is one of the major lebanese parties !
http://www.tayyar.org
their website and it has an english version with a news update!
it's not my psl bank account ! hehehe
hezbollah only started bombing haifa after israel started bombing citizens and residential districts after the kidnapping of the soldiers. in actual fact, it waited a couple of days to signal its intention of only bombing haifa as an 'eye for an eye' policy.
israel still occupies lebanese territory and holds thousands of lebanese in jail camps as an aftermath of its occupation. many of them have been in there for over 20 years and israel refuses to set them free.no fair trials if any trials at all. hundred or thousands of families have had to go on without fathers and brothers and many mothers and daughters. hezbollah is not a consequence of iran, it is a consequence of israeli's history in lebanon. this is the simplist fact. hezbollah is an organized reponse on the part of predominantly shiite southern lebanese, not iran or syria. israel has only allowed prisoners (or more accurately POWs) off in exchange for kidnapped israelis. despite the potests, the rules were written by both parties.
i do not care that israel isnt going to let hezbollah blah blah. this is a minor detail. the more important fact was this was going to happen. i do not wish to delve into justifying why israel's actions are acts of terrorism, either someone is intelligent enough to get that by her/himself or not. But what is more interesting is the internal lebanese predicament; to read the discourse of the different relevant sociopolitical figurheads, many of whom were previous warlords. wounds that never heal.
i never said it wasnt state terrorism or that israel is justified. im just saying what they are going to do.
Does it appear to anyone else that when a society looks on their women as second class citizens, that society fosters oppression and closed thinking.
What is happening in the mosques? Those young men, 20-30 year olds, come out after their mosque teachings with bulging eyes, veins popping, and yelling.
They want the rest of the world to convert to Islam?
There is evidence that the female in the Hebrew societ
Interesting that some of the comments on here seem to have an anti-Israel bias while also totally glossing over the Palestinian militant/Hezbollah actions. Is it even possible to have a debate over the conflict? Can everyone admit that they've already chosen sides by now?
Did this begin with the "alleged shelling" of civilians on a beach in Gaza? I have heard that the explosion could have been caused by mines placed by militants after the beach was used by the IDF to land commandos. So I can either pick whichever one I want, or I can go even further back...to the second intifada...the first...and find something that one side did that seems more disgusting than what the other side did.
What is an "appropriate" response? Was it appropriate for Palestinian militants to use the newly-ceded Gaza strip as a rocket launching pad? This is a spider web of nastiness, but how well has diplomacy worked for the past decade? How do you deal with fundamentally perverted groups like Hezbollah or Hamas?
What is happening in the mosques? Those young men, 20-30 year olds, come out after their mosque teachings with bulging eyes, veins popping, and yelling.
This is such a racist statement !!!!!!!!!!
and no, it's not as u see on TV or in MOVIES that things happen in life..
I've been living for 10 years now in Beirut, and never seen that happen !!!
But once again, Media has its way to get the false image there !!!
But yes I agree that women are treated as second class citizens in the Arab World - tho not in Lebanon !
ET,
Why do you feel the need to vent on archinect? This has nothing to do with architecture. Why not direct your energy to other more approptiate forums?
this thread is now about pie.
cherry for me please!
mmm pie. waffle house peacon pie (slightly heated) for me.
ET:
How is THAT a racist statement?
How did Lebanon come to treat there women differently?
Why do many Arabs want to leave their country for Lebanon?
Why do muslims as far away as Southeast Asia want to completely destroy Jewish civilization?
Why can't a Christian or an athiest visit Mecca, but an Arab (Muslim) can visit the Vatican?
Is it the Western media that makes the Isalm look like a bunch of juvenile deliquents?
Who wants to spend the afterlife make love to virgins? Talk about a high school boy's dream.
forum says
discussion - politics !
Plus i'm not only an architect, but an urban planner as well - politics and sociology r strongly related to that !
a piece of advice - read (Elissar and the southern suburbs of Beirut - Mona Hatoum) u might get my point !
no no no no.
PIE!
How did Lebanon come to treat there women differently?
how many times have u been to Lebanon ? to come up with such prejudice ?????
Why do many Arabs want to leave their country for Lebanon?
"Lebanon is the only democratic country in the region" quoting the cowboy !
Why do muslims as far away as Southeast Asia want to completely destroy Jewish civilization?
"why did bush call the war on iraq a Cruisade"
Oh no ! sorry that was a mistake - he didnt mean it that way !
Is it the Western media that makes the Islam look like a bunch of juvenile deliquents?
i've been living for nearly 10 yrs now in Beirut - most of my friends r muslims tho I'm not - i don't c them as "juvenile delinquents"
and I won't dignify that last 1 with an answer !
Landman...you stole my entire post from the other thread. That's weird!
Donating to the International Red Cross/ Red Crescent would be a much better idea.
Unless you're interested in buying ET a new laptop.
Oh please... both sides are as bad as eachother. Both extremish bigotted groups polarised by history and rants (like above) - Perhaps one main difference is that one side openly wishes the other washed into the sea for whatever reason. There's no logic under those circumstances - just rage.
ET - for your own sanity and ours, do express some form of openness and grasp for the thinking and reasoning behind both sides. You may get the openminded majority behind you - and maybe some cash.
please, to anyone who has posted any kind of overzealous remark on this thread, take a step outside of yourself for one second, take a deep breath, and try to initiate some civilized discourse. this going back and forth just perpetuates the problem.
domi - openminded u say !!
1)- well cool let me have u under a 60 bomb/hour attack then we might go hang out at starbucks and talk abt openmindedness !!!
2)- i seriously dont even care about a majority behind me ! it all started with a bunch of idiots like me on the net trying to do their best under the stress of war - not having a beer checking email- to help the ppl under the blockade (its helping PPL - not political parties)
3)- orEqual - red cross or any organization working in Lebanon would do .. i seriously don't think it's a funny joke to say i need a laptop when ppl in lebanon need shelter and kids need milk !!
sigh.
Islam's intent has been to be aggresively expansionist centuries longer than the U.S. Let the world become completely muslim, only the wealthy men can marry- one huband for 200 wives. You know who the husbands will be? Arabs. Because they will be the only first class citizens in the great new world. You see how it works, ET? Open your eyes. You have been brainwashed for far too long!!! This isn't your fault. You need help! Don't try to place your aggrevation on other people because of your lack of knowledge. You can change. It is not beyond your ability. Show some backbone and all will be well. Take the chains off and set yorself free. Let the chickens come home to roost, they will provide you with eggs and fried chicken for dinner!!! This is a brave new world we are living in. We have the tools to make you better. Try not to blame yourself. You have not completed your project. Get back to work, the deadline is in three days. I am working to the best of my ability. Have you received the fax from Civil. No, but I talked to them 5 minutes ago. We have a problem with the piers and the existing water line in the same location. What is that Archinect on your screen? Oh that is flashing research. Make sure that underground water line is flashed to the best of your ability. That I will do.
double sigh.
You dot do not know how to sigh, you have never known how to sigh!
cf r u pmsing?
I'll take a slice of boysenberry pie with a scoop of vanilla...
All wars are economic competion with a super sized side order of civilian death to go. Look at Bush's grab at Iraqi oil...
Destroying infrastructure will prolong the conflict by inflicting economic harm to the entire country. The best hope for peace is creating affluence in neighborhood near israel. Rebuilding the infrastructure should be core to Israel's exit strategy.
A well fed syrian, iranian, or palestian population has no need to hate or destroy! When then have sufficient resouces to take care of their family, populations tend to stabilize politically.
the bigger issue is climate change- the economies of the middle east (and the world) are tied to available water/rain fall. Drought is the most pressing issue that is being overlooked for short term security!
PEACE brothers/sisters!
ET, look at it this way, if lebanon plays its cards right (after israel withdraws, and it will be forced to do so soon), lebanon can have:
1. financial aid from world powers to reconstruct and develop lebanese economy and infrastructure, and u.n. military aid to insure security and political stability.
2. a democratic government which excercises its sovereignty over the entire lebanon (including the southern districts formerly dominated by possibly soon to be former hizbolla)
3. a POW swap with israel allowing all brothers and fathers to return home to their families.
think, you could of had that and more long ago. i mean, the isrealis havent been occupying any lebanese land for the past few years, and when warring nations make peace there is always a full POW swap. these are basic facts.
we all know what brought on israel's current (totally unproportional, yet totally unavoidable) strike in lebanon. but what has prevented lebanon from seeking peace with israel up until now? is it hizbolla? syria? iran? or is it just hatred of the "zionist bastards"?
while israel has proven it can make bitter war, but that it can make peace too, even with bitter enemies like jordan and egypt, what will lebanon prove to the world a few months from now?
ET:
Let me tell you something, mister, sister, or whatever, you just insulted me, my family, my heritage and my god that I was born to. This action, that was cleanly premeditated, will have dire consequences. The call to arms has been made as ordained by the fore standard bearers at large, after the last virgin has been defiled, and you will not live to regret your trespasses as we overcome those who trespass against us. Lead us not into virginal temptation but deliver the virgins to us for thyn is provider of virgins forever and ever.
And this means all you and you know who you are. The sword has been drawn!!!!
ET.
While I am in fact sympathetic to your cause and I do understand the beauty of Lebanon, I would urge you to read your first post with a little self-criticism.
Did you think that insulting people and asking them for money in the same sentence would work?
All issues aside, the character issue that sets the tone for the post is inseparable from the overall tone of the problem.
How do you fix that?
b.
Chill guys.Our rants here fuel our egos and sensibilities but they dont reduce the pain on either side.
Peace to the Kafir Infidel.
Peace to the true believer.
&
Peace to the petro monger
whats wrong with having virgins fuck you. quite a broadminded thing for religion. and hey, if you can't get laid in the here and now, how cool that you get another chance in the thereafter with virgins. wouldnt you just kill for the chance? personally, i prefer hot sluts.
the tayyar is a credible (or at least as credible as they get there) lebanese party, though its topdog Aoun must be on some form of bipolar medication that he occasionely forgets to ingest. they are currently giving assistance to refugees from the south and the southern suburb of beirut. so the money could end up helping them, or could end up making more orange flags. orange is so 3 seasons ago.
What people fail to realize is that the US is behind this entire Israeli operation. Is it just a coincidence that all this bombing started July 13, one day after Iran was supposed to answer regarding their nuclear weapons program? The US is hoping that Iran and Syria get involved in this situation, so they can attack and do to Iran and Syria what they have already done to Afghanistan and Iraq. Which is to create a mess only for the financial benefit of a few who run this country.
ET:
While the request for funds seemed extremely suspect, I'm glad you have continued to post on this thread. It's an interesting read.
I am one of, what I presume to be, a hundred million Americans who are watching these developments with both increasing voyeuristic interest but yet greater indifference to all things Middle East. What a mess. I sincerely wish you luck in both the short- and long-term.
I'm interested in knowing:
Are you still in Beirut? Is there perhaps a safer place for you to go for the time being?
Metaphoracle
This is an interesting thread. I think it has a lot to do with architecture and especially American Architecture.
Here, thorough the miracle of the internet, you have someone who could quite possibly really be sitting in a bomb shelter typing on a laptop (I’m holding ET to a lower standard of level-headedness than I would expect from my non-bombed colleagues. Cellar Door Whore will be our level headed Lebanese, ET can emote all he wants until they sound “all clear†as far as I’m concerned). They could also be a colleague in another country doing what architects do in that country. Instead of trying to connect with this guy and figure out what’s going on and what to do (like good designers would) we disbelieve his existence, or want to talk about pie or go into this sophomoric college kid hand wringing relativism about seeing both sides or some sort of bullshit arm-chair punditry which invariably excuses our staying in our arm-chair.
I don’t hang out much with Islamisist types (they don’t drink so what would we do) but I’m sure they suck just as about as bad as the blood-thirsty, glassy-eye Zionists fanatics I have run into (funny how many of them are rich kids from New York). That’s my college kid relativism for you.
I do however know a number of Israelis who actively resist the war (often a great personal cost) or who have left the country to avoid being a part of it and these people seem to represent the side that I would go to the barricades for. Not the Israeli peace movement (despite all those tax dollars it’s not my struggle, however heroic) but the youth who want life and a future for themselves and architects who want to build culture. Killing people and blowing up infrastructure should be as against architects constitution as doing harm is to a doctor. I believe that there are partisans of my side sitting in bomb shelters (or unwillingly behind sandbags) on both sides of the border.
In terms of fighting phalangists, there was a generation of intellectuals and professionals like us who had to decide whether to go fight in Spain or stay home and work. This is could be as serious but perhaps even more complex a problem.
What do we do? For architecture? For our colleagues, both level-headed and wigged out, on which ever regime of institutionalized violence they struggle under? What would real interest rather than voyeurism look like?
Et: you better be for real after all that. What’s going on over there? What are people going to do? What’s being talked about in your bomb shelter (besides the milk money situation- I’ll check out your site, no promises)?
If they want orange flags maybe some of these Princeton people can figure something out.
^a more worthwhile direction. I'm also more interested in the discussion taking this [proposed] course.
ok ! well to answer some of the questions (im sorry i couldnt earlier since bombing the power plants killed my connection throughout the night)
1)- to make one thing clear cellardoor whore is right about the orange party- they are one of the most credible parties in Lebanon and i actually took their bank account used currently for donations or help - although i dnt think id get along with the party's political views.
2)- Well yes I am ok for now - shelter / home (no work hehe) thats the ongoing routine 4 now (mostly the net or the news )
3)- What are people going to do : (newstreamlinemodel)
well heres the big problem
we're facing a huge dilemma -
we should all know that Hizbollah is part of the social structure in Lebanon (its not like Afghanistan where all u have is The taliban - go kill them like on a PS game and its over) it would be literally HELL if the lebanese partys didnt agree together on how to solve the problem by spreading the lebanese army on the borders with BOTH israel and syria - disarming Hizbollah- and integrating it into the "lebanese" government -differently than the case today, where the government is only an american muppet show, so obviously seen due to its failure ro hold any responsibilities (or at least this is what I believe in)
But all that aside... ppl should know that such an attack by Israel against Lebanon will only increase the Syrian-Iranian view of the crisis and ask Hizbollah to keep its arms cause as the lifelong excuse goes :"Israel will always strike Lebanon" - which after this latest war im starting to believe.
The interesting part of this is though, that we hear Israel say they're fighting the Hizbollah - they're not fighting Lebanon .
I hear the cowboy say : Lebanon is a fragile democratic country -we support the gvment , and yet he says lately in the G8 "I should get Kofi to call Assad, it's only one phone call to end this shit"
WELL HELLO.... it;s been 7 days , 200 ppl dead on the lebanese side, around 20 to 30 maybe on the israeli , lebanese infrastructure completely destroyed in the south and in Beirut, what the hell r u waiting 4 to make that SHITTY phone call of urs?????????
Plus i seriously dont get how Israel hitting the Jounieh Port affected war on so called Terror - its like saying Hizbollah are in L.A. and they bomb New York.. its like what the hell just happened?? did i miss smthg?????
and i 4got to answer metaphoracle.
There;s a blockade so u can;t go anywhere...
The ports were all bombed.. The airport is destroyed- haven't cn it yet since id be shocked- but its closed 4 now. and Israel bombed all roads that would lead to Syria ... so that leaves u with a small country of 10452 sq.km.
It's basically like a fish tank and we're waiting 4 our turn !
hehehe
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