I'm currently doing 4+2.5 at SCI-Arc with experience similar to yours. Keep in mind the first 2 semesters are "super digital", essentially technique-based and using software to produce architecture. But after that you get 2 semesters of nearly hand picked studios and then your thesis in the summer. The good thing is you are done in 2 years (5 semesters) finishing and starting in the first part of September.

are you suggesting that Sci-Arc would be a good solution? - I was just checking them out now and see they advertise a 2.5 year program for pre-professional degree students.

But the price! Cal Poly is 3,600 I think, Sci Arc is 19,000! After working so long, I really can't justify the extra cost in my mind, I just kind of want to get it done... cheap and cheerful :-) (I realize this isn't very idealistic of me)

most Marchs are 3 year programs, not 3 1/2.
but a BA lasts 4 years, not 5, right? unless you spent more time in school for other reasons (transfers, etc)

so then it's usually a 4+3.

there are some schools that offer an advanced placement possibility but I don't know what they are.

the extra cost is justifiabla...
and the ivies are 30,000+, sciarc is really not an expensive school

hmmmm - i just always remeber hearing it described as a '5+2' path, just because it takes so long nowadays most people go to school for 5 years (as did I)

well, the rumour I hear from Cal Poly's students is 4 years might be more realistic for their program, though it is advertised as 3 years and one quarter.

At least at Hawaii I would come out with an architectural doctorate after 4 years....

well, no
a 5+2 means a 5 year professional degree and an optional March (if you want to teach, etc)

I'm confused - do you want a professional degree or a doctorate?
if you just want to get licensed why would you have to get a doctorate?

"5+2" is used to refer to the actual, 5-year long professional B.Arch. degree, and nothing else. If you took 5 years to do a 4-year pre-professional degree, then disregard what you see on school websites referring to 5+2--you cannot be accepted into those programs.

Thus, based on schooling alone, I would guess you'll be in for the typically 3 years or so for your Master's at the majority of accredited schools (unless they offer some kind of hybrid degree).

If you really want "cheap and cheerful", I would suggest examining your reasons for going to school--if it's just to be qualified for licensure you might consider the possibility of attaining licensure through your work experience alone, since you have plenty of that. Some states (I believe California included) offer this route. (Work long enough, pass IDP and tests, and voila.) If you want the school experience for its own sake then consider possible hybrid degrees that would be shorter, if you don't necessarily want more of a traditional architectural education.

Otherwise I would guess you're in for 3 years at least.

Also, check and see if Hawaii offers a masters instead of just PhD. (I'm also surprised to learn you can earn a PhD after just 4 years + 4 years.)

It's either:

Professional 5-year degree + 2 years for Masters

OR

Pre-professional 4-year degree + 3 years for Masters

(approximately)

Basically it always takes at least 7 years to a pure Arch. Masters. (unless there is a combo, non-traditional degree being offered, which is exceptional.)

Pre-professional degree in architecture from an accredited school should translate to 4+2. I have a non accredited degree in Arch studies so I will be doing 4+3.5. BArch is 5 years and an additional MArch is usually 2 years after that. Berkeley, I dont believe, has an accredited BArch program, but if you got a BA/BS in Architecture then you should be looking to get an MArch in 2 years I think. I've always heard

5 (BArch)
4+2 (BA Arch + MArch)
4+3 (BA nonArch + MArch)

Forgot some schools distinguish between arch undergrad and non-arch undergrad. Or do they all?

okay, sorry, wrong about the 5 + 2 (perhaps it was just at berkeley we said that ) the idea is, though, a pre professional degree, i though would mean advanced standing in an MArch or a shorter MArch than someone with no previous architectural experience.

well, I would very much like to go back to school. But after working 8 years in architecture, I dunno, I just have decided simpler is better for me. Additionally, none of my work experience is eligible for IDP or licensure. (2 years were under a non-licensed architect, and 5 1/2 years working in Ireland. I have checked with the California licensing board and they say none of my Irish work is eligble)

U of Hawaii is a unique 7 year Arch Doc according to them...(first professional)

guig... that's my understanding, too. SCI-Arc = 4+2.5 and ?+3.5

yeah, guiggster, that is the impression i had - that's why i was wondering if things had changed....

also want to point out that the length of your MArch program is NEGOTIABLE. I know of 2 people who talked their way from a 3 year to a 2 year program at Columbia and Sci-Arc respectively. They used their portfolio and acceptances to other schools as leverage.

My friend is going through the 7 year doctorate program in Hawaii. He will be one of the first graduates of this program as it is relatively new. The program involves at least 1 non-pay internship semester every year (you actually pay tuition to work somewhere). This is a tough pill to swallow esp. if you have been doing the same work for the past 8 years and are getting paid to do it. However, it is actually a doctorate degree.

Keep in mind, Sci Arc has a phenominal world wide reputation with top architects teaching there that some may seem is well worth the money...

Cal Poly is in the smog hole of LA county. It is at least 2 hours from the coast, and there are nothing but dirt people out there. If I had a choice, I would pick some better schools (Sci Arc, UCLA, USC...) or ride the surf in Hawaii

Ganeagla,

Did you make your mind on which grad school to go to?

I'm planning to apply to grad school for 2010 and I'm trying to hear opinions from people that graduated from Berkeley with the pre-professional degree. I want to know if we can get away with finishing the M.Arch earlier than those with no architectural background. Since we hold an architectural background it would be fair to get some credits specially if we have worked at an architecture firm before.

Well, I graduated last year and I am working at a firm. I plan to go for my masters at Cal Poly since it's is the cheapest and very close to my house. I just don't know if they will let me finish in less than 3 years and a quarter like they say the program lasts.

Anyone else with an un-accredited Architecture degree with the same situation?

Hi Joyce -

Well what I have discovered since coming to Cal Poly is a few things. For one, there are a couple of schools who seem to have M. Arch programs specifically designed for us with pre professional degrees. I believe U of Oregon and possibly U of Washington are a few, so hopefully the 2 year M. Arch they have would not have to go any longer than they claim. In terms of Cal Poly, I have definitely seen that occasionally people with a pre professional degree do come in with credit. I remember one student with a pre prof came to tour Cal Poly and the graduate advisor said that she would essentially be coming into the 2nd year of the program and skipping the first year entirely. Now, I have never understood why they weren't able to do that for me - perhaps I just did not make my qualifications clear in my application. However, they did accomodate me once I arrived and it became clear that I had much more experience than the other students (many did not know how to draw a section!) and I was able to finish early, in 2 1/2 years. though I must admit the process was awkward, as the program is set up to be done a certain way. I would suggest talking to the graduate advisor about it before hand. I wish I had.

I will say that I would highly recommend Cal Poly as a grad school. The faculty is fantastic, very interested in their students, very highly qualified. And of course it is great value for a graduate degree. I am thrilled that I chose to come here. Some students at Cal Poly who are more theoretically minded seem to think they would prefer a school like Berkeley, however I am personally of the opinion that if they actually attended such a school they may not be that impressed. I appreciate that here I am taught more about how to actually construct a building. But of course that is all a matter of opinion. But nearly every grad student at Cal Poly agrees it is an excellent education and good value.

good luck!

ganeagla, would you consider going to CAL again?
it would be 2 yrs or possibly lesser for you since you have far more work experience and if you can reflect that sophistication in your portfolio.
btw, CED in CAL was founded in 1959 as one first institutions to adopt '4+2' system. (haha one thing I learned from practice of architecture course...) it has never been 5+2 officially ..but academic life in cal's pretty stressful and many of us finish in 4.5-5 yrs.

I think USC also offers 2 yrs, 3 for UCLA, and if you aim for 3yrs in Princeton, they might cover 75% of your tuition.

one of the first...

ganeagla,

I'm glad to hear you liked the M. Arch program at Cal Poly. I now want to apply but I need to wait till next year :)

I have lots of questions for you.

- You said you were able to finish in 2 1/2 years right...what classes were you able to skip with your Berkeley credits?

- I see on the CPP website that the last quarter of the M. Arch is for the thesis (I assume that it is regularly a Fall quarter for most people) ...so that means you were able to do your thesis on a different quarter? I guess what I'm really trying to get to is if I can finish after a spring quarter in June. If I were to start in Fall 2010, ideally I would like to finish by Spring 2013 or even earlier would be much better. Can we present our thesis at any of the quarters or does it have to be in groups (Like in Berkeley I saw all the grad students present their thesis projects all during the same spring semester).

- Did you go abroad? I didn't have the change to go abroad while in Berkeley so I really want to get out during grad school. A lot of my co-workers say I missed out on the international programs. Sad. But yea...I really want to go abroad.

PHeww!! I don't want to trouble you with lots of questions… It’s just that I'm very excited to hear about a Cal graduate that went to CPP for grad school :)


Thanks for replying to my last comment.

joyce -

no, I think I gave a false impression there. I did not finish my thesis on a different quarter, I am finishing it now in fact! My presentation is exactly one week from tomorrow! I don't believe there would be any other way of completing thesis other than the standard way, which at the moment is to finish in fall quarter of 4th year of the program. There is a rumor that they may be shortening this as we all hate having to come back for just one quarter, but its just a rumor at the moment. So no, you may be able to finish thesis late, but you have to go through the process the standard way with everyone else i believe.

To answer the first question, as I say, I think if anyone else were to get advance standing they would probably skip the whole first year of the program, which would be Arch history, 3 design studios, and other classes as well. My situation was very different in that they started me in the 1st year of the 3 1/4 year program, and, because I complained and felt under challenged, they accomodated me and let me jump ahead. But I wouldn't use my situation as an example, I am glad they allowed me to jump ahead but it has also been tremendously awkward.

The reason it was awkward is also the reason you probably can't finish thesis early. The classes in the grad program are very set so that you have to take them in order, and some classes really need to be taken concurrently. Many classes are only given in one specific quarter, so if you miss them then you have to take them next year. So, because I skipped ahead, there were still some classes that I need to have taken for the 2nd year set of classes, but since I started Fall quarter in 1st year classes, I then had to go back in 3rd year and take them! If that makes any sense. That is why if you get advanced standing you would probably just come in late or else straight into 2nd year. But they may also try to convince you to do the full 3 1/4 year program as I am told by Cal Poly that some who have pre profs have done the whole 3 1/4 years and were happier for it, but I don't know if I believe them!

No I didn't go abroad as I have traveled a bit already and I wanted to save the money. There is absolutely an opportunity to do so though, if you wish, even if you get advanced standing. There is a summer program in Greece and one in China that you can take after 2nd year. Also some people year went in their fall quarter of 3rd year to Italy or to Taiwan. So as grads our options are more limited than the undergrads, but it is still very possible.

Well back to the thesis work - good luck in your apps and as I say, best thing to do is talk to the grad advisor, or even better, come by the campus if you can and try to talk to him in person.

Hi,

Thank you for answering my questions. I want to go visit the campus and see if i can talk to a grad advisor.

I wish you the best on your thesis project.

Texas Tech has a 4+1 March.

A few years ago, NCARB and NAAB were considering elimination of the 5 year Barch.

There was a great deal of pushback and the idea was abandoned.