"Just look at the monstrously banal skyscrapers surrounding the 9/11 Memorial."
Uhhhhhhh......I.........like.........those.........skyscrapers.............. 7 World Trade Center looks rather compelling! Especially in that area where there are a lot of crappy post modern skyscrapers that were done in the 80s and 90s.
Many have absorbed your comments and we hope your illness partially explains the hate filled rhetoric you've expressed the past couple days. Given your hostile attitude and means of expression, its not surprising experienced Architects are reluctant to mentor or keep you around. I don't get the impression you'd be a lot of fun to work with.
Perhaps one day, after a decade of hard work, you'll develop your own Utopian firm; but I have a feeling you're the type of personality doomed to repeat the failures of those you criticize. On the other hand, I don't know you and some of your points are as valid today as they were when I was your age.
These are times of professional despair for Architects of all ages. So, for now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...good luck and hope you feel better soon.
Blasph, would you e-mail me directly? I have a young lady I would like to put you in touch with. She is looking to enter a 5 year architecture program and I keep telling her she needs to talk to some recent grads for real information.
Times of dispair for architects of all ages? What the FUCK are you even talking about??? You've canned almost every single person of my generation. I was at a happy hour recently with a bunch of other architects and it was agreed that all of us have been laid off at least twice within the last five years. I myself was laid off from a firm I worked at for 5 years on my birthday two days before I was to propose to my girlfriend. On the way out of the firing squad I looked through the glass door only to see the three guys laughing - only at how bad they fucked me.
You have absolutely no idea how hard my generation has been hit yet you continue to shed croccodile tears about laying people off and about how it's your generation that everyone should feel sorry about. Sorry but you guys irrrevocably screwed everything up for everyone. You all spend way too much money doing way too many stupid things and you were far too stupud to know anything about the world so you wanted us to go out there and kill a bunch of people just because there was no mpore big and bad scary communists - so what better way now than to go out there and kill a bunch of Moslems! And wait....wasn't that somehow supposed to give us more oil and money like you guys wanted and preached about?? Instead we now have suffocatingly intolerable gas prices, miserably expensive housing prices, and hyperinflation like nobody's business - all so YOU can live the American dream while we all sat around and would pray that a miricle would happen.
We have nothing to thank your generation for. I only wish that for a second you guys thought about your children and thought abpout your weckless mistakes of Vietnam. It makes me shed some serious tears when I see men 5 years younger than me with 3 out for of their limbs left only because of some stupid horseshit you fed to them.
Things have improved since the start of the great recession. But there are so many who can't find jobs.
There is so much for us to do. Improve urban areas, better modes of transportation or completely new methods of transport for that matter. We need ideas to reshape our urban condition, which can create opportunities for a better way of life. Now, all we need is for the leaders of our country to step forward, unite and lead. Our tax payer dollars can fund these things, right? Stimulate growth? We fund wars and not stimulate the growth of our country? Our leaders should give America a fighting chance, so professionals can bring food to the table, whether green or seasoned.
What will happen to our middle class if this cycle continues, or even worse - if we hit another recession? Our profession is over as we know it.
I feel for the poor college students who will struggle to pay off loans working in some odd job. It is happening and it is scary.
You're filled with hate - yet you proclaim a desire for World Peace
You despise 'boomers' and wish they were dead - yet you expect them to mentor you
You posess negative hostility toward your profession - yet you can't understand why former co-workers would enjoy seeing you leave their workspace.
You vehemently criticize seniority within your profession - yet you attack me as a newbe member for expressing my observations about your obvious lack of character.
Gee, and I'd given you the benifit of the doubt and attempted to provide worth while advise to lighten your heavy load. So here's a little more:
Regardless of age, Architecture is tough and requires positive energy to handle the stress - along with a sense of professionalism and good will toward others.
Perhaps you've just chosen the wrong profession. If so, given your state of mind, I suggest you practice this simple phrase:
"Would you like fries with that Sir (or Ma'm)...........
Yeah, jeebus, chill out, med.: it's not only 20-somethings that have been laid off in this recession, and I know lots of 50-somethings who are laid off or panicked that they are about to be, or have packed it in (like the OP) and are doing their own thing to try to keep a minimal lifestyle together. Replace your rant above about "you guys screwed everything up" by inserting "black people" or "Jews" instead of "olds" and listen to how incendiary it sounds.
You all spend way too much money doing way too many stupid things and you were far too stupud to know anything about the world so you wanted us to go out there and kill a bunch of people just because there was no mpore big and bad scary communists - so what better way now than to go out there and kill a bunch of Moslems! I'm 45 years old and NONE of this statement applies to me or my attitudes toward our country's actions. Yet poll a bunch of non-college educated 20 year olds and you'll hear a LOT of support for "killing Muslims".
You have a lot of rage, and not a lot of perspective. Remember that in 1990 most of my college graduating class couldn't find work for a year, too - not as deep or long a recession as this one is, but architecture has *always* been heavily hit by recessions, cyclically: if you can't stand the uncertainty of it, you really should consider another line of work, though frankly in *this* recession no profession at all is immune, and I'm guessing that's going to be SOP for the next several decades.
It's also pretty tough to be an owner of a firm when nothing is getting built - not only are you owning a marginally-running business, but you might also not be getting paid. I knew at least a few principal-level people who had at least several months to a year of not taking a paycheck to meet payroll. It's not like you can easily walk away from that, or fire yourself.
Maybe you've just been working at crappy firms (it's not like architects are stereotyped to be good at business), or are particularly sensitive to being wronged. It's tough to live with so much bitterness, and ultimately not constructive! Maybe this is why you seem to be having a harder time finding productive things to do.
Lots of bad things happen in each 'generation' (whatever one of those is - wasn't Vietnam started by people who fought in World War II?), but they shape a lot of things we take for granted. I'm pretty glad that the boomer era changed some (very basic) things that I don't even think about now, like being able to have serious female coworkers and not having to take into consideration the race of someone I have a relationship with.
med. quick! Jump on my valociraptor, I'm getting you outta here. Never wage a landwar with boomers, man. The trick is to wait till sunset when they are back in their retirement suites. Chain the doors and burn the place down! It's the only way to be sure.
That said, I think peeps are misunderstanding you here. The issue of 'boomer hate' is not personal. It's just a good example of how major demographic shifts work. In this case it's the great post-war monoculture. Boomers brought us suburbs, death of American cities, slavery to motor and oil companies, and (to be fair) some killer rock'n'roll! Now they are too old and set in their ways to deal with crisis such as the one we are in. We will be stuck in this political purgatory until the boomer voting power becomes insignificant. And with medical breakthroughs, we may have to wait till forever (here's hoping Obama's deathpanels work on commission).
MaxministerFicus, suburbs of 50s and 60s are Manhattan compared to crap that was built afterwards. Your point about trends v. demographics is mostly valid, but purchasing power of the boomers has had a significant impact on current state of affairs. Look at Iran for another great example of weird post-war demographics (Sadam nearly killed entire generation of men).
Monoculture is never good, be that potatoes, corn, poodles, or people.
You attacked me first and iumputed a bunch of thoughts into my head and made absoutely ridiculous assumptions that were categorically untrue. No love needed.
You're filled with hate - yet you proclaim a desire for World Peace
Another stupid and uneducated assumption. I do want world peace but all your generation wants is fearmongering and war.
"You despise 'boomers' and wish they were dead - yet you expect them to mentor you"
Again, don't put fucking words in my mouth. There is a certain expectation you all have on us and that is to be professional and productive yet all we see is the guys calling shots screwing everyone over - see Enron, see Lehman Brothers, see WorldCom, see all the other architecture firms that were bought out by megaconglomorates that just chewed them up and spit them all out. What kind of message does this send to those you wish to mentor. You have expectations of us - we follow - and we have expectation of you - to LEAD.
"You posess negative hostility toward your profession - yet you can't understand why former co-workers would enjoy seeing you leave their workspace."
Not even worthy of a response. You don't know me.
"Gee, and I'd given you the benifit of the doubt and attempted to provide worth while advise to lighten your heavy load. So here's a little more:
Regardless of age, Architecture is tough and requires positive energy to handle the stress - along with a sense of professionalism and good will toward others."
I love architecture. Not stupidity like that bag of drivel posted above.
blashph, right on with your Gaudi comment. One thing I am grateful for is that my architectural education was free, i just wish i had chose pharmacy...so i would have a job now and a hefty salary.
"Perhaps you've just chosen the wrong profession. If so, given your state of mind, I suggest you practice this simple phrase:
"Would you like fries with that Sir (or Ma'm)..........."
Nice so you preach and preach all of your self-righteous bull shit and now when anyone questions the absolute dismal state of the profession, you ask them if you would like fries with that? Really?
Arguing amongst ourselves about which generation is at fault is productive...
Let's not forget the wise words that we wear proudly emblazoned on our chests:
Architecture Sucks.
This business is hard.
"Replace your rant above about "you guys screwed everything up" by inserting "black people" or "Jews" instead of "olds" and listen to how incendiary it sounds."
Oh my.....This has to be the dumbest thing you have ever said. So what are you saying ? I'm anti-black and anti-Semitic now? None of what you said in that sentence makes any sense.
Sure other people were laid off - including one of my super awesome and cool former bosses (and I think it's because he was super awesome and cool) But It is no laughing matter that an overwhelming majority of my generation was the first to go in your little "Great Recession." Now are going to follow that oldieorwhatever poster by telling young people who have grievances if they would like fries with that?
Stephen according to everyone here it seems like our generation is at fault for everything much in evidence to the fact that an overwhelming number of us have been the ones to meet with the mighty axe.
100 years ago, there was a similar battle in architecture - those young punk hipsters Le Corbusier, Gropius and Mies where on to the latest technologies and rebelled against those old 19th century types - "why Le Corbusier can't even draw - look at those scribbles" he can't draw this Corinthian capital - he is no architect
Frank Lloyd Wright felt threatened by those punks and would go off on them in front of the "fellows" swatting flies named Gropius or Corbusier and Mies.
If Zenakis was alive today, he would be over there across the bay with #occupy Oakland -
zenakis, the arguments you are talking about are intellectual. We are talking about sustenance here, and the fact that the way architectural practices are structured (by influence of the AIA, NCARB or who have you) do not encourage spreading the work on all levels, but on highly concentrated points.
It seems the most desirable groups these days are employees aged 20-30 (for the Rhino, Revit and Grasshopper wizardry) and those aged 45-55 (for experience and still being slightly current). The others seem to be screwed. There is no other profession where this polarization occurs. This is an unsustainable model and something needs to change soon.
given that most of my office is between 30 and 40, i'm not seeing it, s.o.d.
sure, the principals are over 40, but that's to be expected, right?
no one *wanted* to lay off anyone over the last few years, i expect. and the decisions about layoffs aren't targeted at certain age/culture demographics so much as they are about who is bringing value at a given point in time that can keep a firm solvent.
All my friends that are 30-40 are without jobs, except like 3 and they don't even work in firms. Architecture indeed sucks. I don't blame the old folks for the recession, there are plenty of young people that don't value money and have abused their credit that got us into this mess. But I do sympathize with med on the lack of mentoring and leadership in architecture, it is just so incredibly inadequate.
The point is in all of this..... At least you guys were given a chance to establish yourselves before shit hit the fan. You guys were able to afford homes, nice cars, and were able to start families. None of us can do anyt of the above without breaking bank.
Despite what some of you think, I'm not a selfish person and have been blessed to be gainfully employed hroughout much of the "Great Recession." I identify with my generation because many of them were not as lucky as me and I feel for every single one of them. It pains me when I get phenominal resumes/portfolios from people (with the idea I might be able to pass it allong to a higher up) -- It pains my heart because they believe I might be their final hope in getting them employed even though I can do virtually nothing.
After five years of employment at one firm (and fearing each and every one of those days would be my last) I was finally laid off last year (on my birthday) mainly because of redundancies caused by several mergers and the ugly corporation politics that followed. Just ugly ugly office politics where you can imagine allegiances needed to be established and along with that the expected backstabbings and gosip mongering. It was very nasty and a moralle was at an all-time low in the midst of a rapidly evaporating workload. Keep in mind, I was 100% billable but because I was kept things professional enough not to take sides or be in stupid and immature office allegiances I was considered a target. Everyone was shocked by my departure actually.
This is an anonymous message board where we should be free to show our frustrations as I would expect everyone to do. I don't go around naming names or companies and such. I am only interested in telling you my experiences from my angle. Because no one is hearing it. Some of you make it out to sound like this is the way I would talk in the profession - I wouldn't be employed if that were the case.
Feb 29, 12 10:20 am ·
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This is not a "great recession." It is the early stages of a deflationary depression. And there is still a lot of leverage out there that needs to be unwound so it is unlikely that things will improve anytime soon.
Sadly, it's fucking us all (every generation) in the ass hard, yo!
I totally get the need to vent. Actually, I'm not surprised the older folks aren't venting more (maybe not computer literate?). It would be horrible to start in a fairly stable profession, assured of success, only to become less and less stable until you were finally laid off five years before you could retire. It's hard to start out and not immediately have the means to afford a stable life - it's even harder to start out with those means, only to have them taken away from you.
Being on the receiving end of this myself (it is hard to get a job in architecture! I am six months away from having enough IDP hours to finish the legal process of licensure once and for all, and have been for like three years), I totally get some of the sentiments - things are top-heavy, architects eat their young, etc., etc. Things are hard, although I usually also hear how hard things are from the perspective of the older people too; it sort of makes it hard for me to be angry at them for long.
I can only speak for myself here, but if there had been no recession, my career trajectory would have been infinitely more boring. I probably would have worked as an architect up until becoming a PM (and would be licensed now), going through the ranks or possibly striking out on my own, but never really questioning the way I operated as a traditional practitioner. I would basically be rising through the ranks inside a system that others had designed, my comfortable path written for me by tradition, playing within the confines of the rules set by traditional practice, for the rest of my life. It's easy to go with the flow.
Because of the recession, this path is no longer really open to me if I want to advance and have the sort of career I want. But in a way, it's empowering. There were things that kind of bothered me about the profession, and I've been able (forced to?) pursue a path that I feel addresses a lot of those issues and makes me a stronger architect/engineer/whatever. It's taken experience outside the field and an extra degree, but I feel far more in charge of my career than if I had stayed in the confines of traditional practice, doing what I had been originally trained to do. I don't quite know what will happen, so it's a little scary, but if it were easy and worth doing it would have been done already.
It's perverse to call the recession and its timing a gift. However, I do feel it has made me stronger in a strange way, and I think it's because of having the 'correct' perspective. I don't know if I would feel this way if I were much older and this were happening. I have friends who have been 'sort of lucky' in that they work long hours for little pay in unfulfilling jobs in badly-run firms because 'it's the way things are done', and it is frustrating to see them feel stuck - even more so because the economy inhibits firm-jumping.
The happiest people I know have taken their training and made it their own, sometimes doing things that aren't even architecture. I wish we were all like this. We'd be a much stronger (and happier) profession.
Med. I am sorry you are not meeting senior professionals in architecture who in your eyes and perhaps my own have their moral compass aligned with our own. But it is a big world and there is some experienced older architect out there who you may find to be a role model. It is hard to find them and even harder to muster the courage and humility to ask for help and advice.
The community project I mentioned has borne fruit, I now have a small church renovation to make a small stage for sound equipment accessible, it pays not much but wow things happen as a result of the contacts you make when you do work in the community.
I may be a total weirdo but I think the best thing to do is to get a few recently retired architects together for Sunday brunch, oh the stories they tell. If you do this I recommend you have lots of sketch paper and pens around and just have the patients to listen, so many fun and interesting “War Stories” this kind of mentorship requires the following ingredients:
1-1/2 dozen eggs
Cooking oil (Pam)
Pepper, tomato, onion, cilantro, and other veggies diced
½ -1 pound bacon
Good bread for toast
Butter
Pens
Paper
Orange juice
Champaign (for mimosas)
Coffee
Bloody Mary mix
Three to six senior architects
And a humble invitation
Prepare ingredients on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon and you will have interesting stories, ideas and a new perspective.
When you reach the end of your career it must be flattering and nearly impossible to resist an invitation to share some of what you learned. I wonder if such an invitation would be perceived as some kind of honor.
I find that being humble is often easier than being arrogant, and you often get what you want or what you need with less hassle and more friends to share the fortune with. It all takes time.
PJ, your current concept of a mentor is a person who is teaching you to work for free. Think about it. Maybe you should be drinking cheap beer with people who work for a living instead of trading war stories about broken lead holders and mylar.
I think retired architects, much like those who can work for free when it's more convenient, are living off trust funds given to them by either their wealthy family or their spouses wealthy family. Just a theory.
Second on PJN26's post *almost* being the best post out there, except [s]he forgot to include heart-healthy things in the breakfast - egg beaters? Fruit? Sometimes, retired architects have to watch their diets, y'know.
I'm glad we're in a profession where people are pretty willing and eager to talk about their experiences. I can think of very few architects who respond to questions with something like 'that's a secret' or 'I don't want to talk about that' - the advantage of working in a field where people generally like the concept of what they do, if not always the execution or the pay.
No Retired Architects? I am one. No great secret. Takes a LOT of penny pinching, a little luck and studiously avoiding the I-love-this-work-so-much-I'd-do-it-for-nothing mentality that pervades this profession. It now gives me the luxury of an I-hate-this-work-so-much-I-wouldn't-even-do-it-for-money mindset.
curtkram: "I think retired architects ... are living off trust funds given to them by either their wealthy family or their spouses wealthy family. Just a theory."
LOL
I've retired and I can assure you that -- in my case at least -- the theory espoused above could not be farther from the truth. I can afford to be retired because my spouse and I started planning for retirement -- with a vengence -- when in our 30s.
Thanks geezertect and Quzzical. I will take your experiences into account and amend my previous theory. If my generation and the millennials can sustain jobs with a sufficient income to maintain a reasonable quality of life, and if we maintain personal discipline, maybe we too will be able to retire some day.
By the way, congratulations on your retirement Quizzical. It seems you were working last month, so I assume that's new? I hope it is good new for you rather than forced.
toaster: No, no motorhome -- although we are thinking about a travel trailer in order to spend more time visiting parts of the US we haven't seen yet. Definitely not planning to join the 'old folks' in FL -- we're stlll living where we've always lived.
curt: My retirement was a long-time coming, as part of a well organized transition plan. Although I've left my firm, you might actually say that I'm 'semi-retired' now since I'm still doing a little work out of my house, helping an old developer friend with some residential design. However, I don't see that lasting very long since I'm eager to devote a lot more time to some of my other interests in life.
Some additional thoughts occurred to me since my earlier post. Much of the recent generation of graduates seems rather fatalistic about the profession. Given the state of the economy the past several years, I suppose that fatalism is not wholly unexpected.
However, over a fairly long career, I've experienced a series of rather frequent and rather severe economic downturns. I've lost my own job twice and my wife lost her job once. I can remember some rather desperate years, especially when our children were very young. Each of those downturns left us absolutely convinced that the profession would never recover, yet it always bounced back (sometimes in spite of itself).
Despite these periodic ups and downs, we continued to live frugally and save at an unnaturally high rate. With the passage of time, those savings gave us freedom and flexibility. And, because we made some decent investment decisions, it became financially possible for us to retire at a time of our choosing.
The practice of architecture is very hard, but it need not condemn us to economic poverty. Those of us who really love architecture find it hard to imagine any other way to spend one's time. However, one always must recognize the profession for what it is (warts and all) and operate accordingly.
IMHO, economic success for most of us requires dedication, hard work, frugality and a willingness to adjust one's lifestyle as conditions dictate. Working in architeccture is not a guarantee of economic success -- but, neither is it an insurmountable barrier to success. In my view, it's really all about how you decide to conduct yourself and your life. It's about making certain necessary trade-offs to achieve what you want long-term.
You make good points, but speaking as a recent grad (B. Arch and M Arch) that fatalism isn't just some temporary ailment. It's a full-blown panic. And it's a well earned panic.
You have to remember that most students are coming out in huge debt. And the student debt has skyrocketed in the past decade. Not only that, but most recent graduates began school before the recession, so it was not something an 18 year old high school student could have foreseen.
I personally went back to grad school to ride out the recession. I grew tremendously, and I am a better person/designer for it. I had that fleeting moment of optimism about "taking charge of my own life" quickly squashed once I re-entered the job market, and I realized that my personal growth and maturity didn't add value to my job prospects. It's still incredibly difficult to land an interview, and I find myself downplaying my experience so that I can get survival jobs. Sure, I can get the odd job here and there and put my skillets to use, but the lack of security is really aging me quite quickly, and the IDP hours seem like an obstacle that is continuously running ahead of me.
You mentioned that you saved diligently, and that's honorable. But for recent graduates, the prospect of saving is becoming impossible. How can graduates save when they can barely cover their expenses? And forget starting a family, how can someone do that when they'll be buried in debt from all those loans they took out for an evaporating job market?
The issues most graduates face is that the access to those opportunities literally dried up while they were preparing in school for their professional life.
And to be quite honest, I think it takes a certain level of disillusionment to think that positive thinking is going to change someone's outlook. Sure, there will be some outliers here and there, and that's good for them. But for most Americans, (not just architects) without a basic re-distribution of wealth then the access that was afforded previous generations is not going to be available to recent graduates. Even the most frugal, cautious, and careful planning and rigorous work ethic is not going to be enough to keep many Americans from being swallowed whole by this recession. And that's just a reality that needs to be confronted.
This country is very sick right now, and I just have a real hard time seeing a recovery when all of the evidence is pointing toward some type of collapse. The people who have amassed absurd levels of prosperity during this large-scale transfer of wealth are going to do everything within their power to maintain this inequality, and it's not going to be pretty. We're at the end-game of Monopoly right now, and most of the country is sitting at the table bankrupt, waiting for the Banker to wipe the grin off his face and put the cards back on the table so that we can start over.
The sad thing, though, is that what emerges after that re-structuring is going to be AMAZING. Seriously, if there is a silver-lining in all of this, it is that a new social-political movement WILL emerge from this, and the architecture that it manifests will be great.
I just hope everyone can hang on until we reach that point. Until then, I'm gonna go have a drink.
quizz - congratulations on moving to 'act 2' (or 3 or 4 as the case may be). i'm not nearly close to retirement but feel like a similar change is out there...
newguy - one of the outcomes of this particular recession that i think is different for most of us (say under 80) is how the impacts - professional, personal, etc. - seem random and indiscriminate. meaning, people who are incredibly talented seem to catch no breaks whatsoever but some people who seem dumber than a box of rocks graduate and find a job in 2 days. throw in the fact that this is happening at a widespread scale and, yes, it's incredibly discouraging.
but.
opportunities really are out there. people are getting hired. work is happening for some firms. is it enough that everyone who wants a job will be able to find one? no. and it's not likely to be that way for a while - until many unemployed (or yet to be employed) architects move on into other fields and the economy as a whole recovers.
in the end, what you mentioned - 'stability' - is really at the core of the overall unease in the country. and the reality is we've only had very brief interludes of true economic instability since wwii (and this is the longest and most severe by far). i think most people on the economic spectrum would fully agree that a stable and modestly rising middle class is the best hope to achieve long term prosperity for the country as a whole. unfortunately, for 30 years, we've pursued policies and allowed systems to be built that make the reality of that stability far more difficult to achieve.
from what you say about yourself, though, maybe you need some mentoring on the 'how' of creating a space within the system for yourself, instead of looking to plug into something else. maybe? or am i reading it incorrectly?
Quizzical, I'm really glad that all worked out for you but what you describe will NEVER be the case for us.
Most of us are in far more debt than any of you. School was somewhat more affordable for your generation and is not at all for us. Your generation has driven up all the prices for everything to unbearable levels while the incomes of architects have changed very little. It's almost as if architects allowed other industries to walk all over us......
Newguy, great post (sorry to hear the state of affairs) and you are articulating a situation I have suspected regarding recent graduates. I agree that there are opportunities, but it is a question of the ratio of those opportunities relative to people chasing them. Is it 1 to 10, or more like 1 to 100?
I recently saw an interview on Bill Moyers (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html) with 2 economists on their new book, I think it is going to be an interesting read regarding this broader topic in America:
My only suggestion for you is that if you can't find any water in this well, go start looking in other wells. An architectural education does have weight and meaning in the market place with potential employers. Who knows you may even find something you enjoy doing more!
zenakis, I have a theory on that too (which may be refuted by our older and wiser members).
There was a time when what mattered is what you knew. You knew how to do your job, you did your job, that was enough. Then, 'character' became important, and it wasn't 'what you know' so much as 'who you are.' Then the 80's came along and it wasn't 'who you are' but 'who you know' that became important. I believe we have the baby boomers to thank for that.
With the advent of an economic/ political system that rewards investors at the expense of those of us who work for a living (probably what Keith's book above suggests), along with the 'who you know' crap the baby boomers gave us, then I would suggest the available jobs are being provided as favors. It's essentially a quid-pro-quo situation within the investor class. I think this has been going on for quite a while, but since there were more jobs available only some of them were being traded as favors. Now that the decision makers have to decide whether to take a given employee as a favor or hire someone based solely on qualifications, they may be preferring the favor. As a commodity, the job is worth lot more now than it used to be, and the employee is worth a lot less.
If that is the case, then you should probably try to put yourself in a situation where you can be collateral for someone in the investor class. Seriously, I wish I knew how to help you guys.
sick of architecture being called a bad profession
"Just look at the monstrously banal skyscrapers surrounding the 9/11 Memorial."
Uhhhhhhh......I.........like.........those.........skyscrapers.............. 7 World Trade Center looks rather compelling! Especially in that area where there are a lot of crappy post modern skyscrapers that were done in the 80s and 90s.
Med.
Many have absorbed your comments and we hope your illness partially explains the hate filled rhetoric you've expressed the past couple days. Given your hostile attitude and means of expression, its not surprising experienced Architects are reluctant to mentor or keep you around. I don't get the impression you'd be a lot of fun to work with.
Perhaps one day, after a decade of hard work, you'll develop your own Utopian firm; but I have a feeling you're the type of personality doomed to repeat the failures of those you criticize. On the other hand, I don't know you and some of your points are as valid today as they were when I was your age.
These are times of professional despair for Architects of all ages. So, for now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...good luck and hope you feel better soon.
Blasph, would you e-mail me directly? I have a young lady I would like to put you in touch with. She is looking to enter a 5 year architecture program and I keep telling her she needs to talk to some recent grads for real information.
Goldenoldie - keep thinking that way. Seriously - 14 posts and you can only musterup this tangential bag of absolute drivel?
You don't know a single goddamn thing about me on this anonymous message board.
i've been doing some reading on letting go of anger...it' really interesting
med: "You don't know a single goddamn thing about me on this anonymous message board."
And yet, med seems to know absolutely everything about the "older generation who fucked everything up" Talk about "absolute drivel".
Times of dispair for architects of all ages? What the FUCK are you even talking about??? You've canned almost every single person of my generation. I was at a happy hour recently with a bunch of other architects and it was agreed that all of us have been laid off at least twice within the last five years. I myself was laid off from a firm I worked at for 5 years on my birthday two days before I was to propose to my girlfriend. On the way out of the firing squad I looked through the glass door only to see the three guys laughing - only at how bad they fucked me.
You have absolutely no idea how hard my generation has been hit yet you continue to shed croccodile tears about laying people off and about how it's your generation that everyone should feel sorry about. Sorry but you guys irrrevocably screwed everything up for everyone. You all spend way too much money doing way too many stupid things and you were far too stupud to know anything about the world so you wanted us to go out there and kill a bunch of people just because there was no mpore big and bad scary communists - so what better way now than to go out there and kill a bunch of Moslems! And wait....wasn't that somehow supposed to give us more oil and money like you guys wanted and preached about?? Instead we now have suffocatingly intolerable gas prices, miserably expensive housing prices, and hyperinflation like nobody's business - all so YOU can live the American dream while we all sat around and would pray that a miricle would happen.
We have nothing to thank your generation for. I only wish that for a second you guys thought about your children and thought abpout your weckless mistakes of Vietnam. It makes me shed some serious tears when I see men 5 years younger than me with 3 out for of their limbs left only because of some stupid horseshit you fed to them.
You should be ashamed of yourseld.
babs, let's see:
You spend all of our money and wasted it.
You've started the dumbest wars that have the absolute dumbest meaning.
You've made everyone in the entire world hate us including people who should be our allies.
What's not to understand here?
Things have improved since the start of the great recession. But there are so many who can't find jobs.
There is so much for us to do. Improve urban areas, better modes of transportation or completely new methods of transport for that matter. We need ideas to reshape our urban condition, which can create opportunities for a better way of life. Now, all we need is for the leaders of our country to step forward, unite and lead. Our tax payer dollars can fund these things, right? Stimulate growth? We fund wars and not stimulate the growth of our country? Our leaders should give America a fighting chance, so professionals can bring food to the table, whether green or seasoned.
What will happen to our middle class if this cycle continues, or even worse - if we hit another recession? Our profession is over as we know it.
I feel for the poor college students who will struggle to pay off loans working in some odd job. It is happening and it is scary.
Med. Where's the love buddy?
You're filled with hate - yet you proclaim a desire for World Peace
You despise 'boomers' and wish they were dead - yet you expect them to mentor you
You posess negative hostility toward your profession - yet you can't understand why former co-workers would enjoy seeing you leave their workspace.
You vehemently criticize seniority within your profession - yet you attack me as a newbe member for expressing my observations about your obvious lack of character.
Gee, and I'd given you the benifit of the doubt and attempted to provide worth while advise to lighten your heavy load. So here's a little more:
Regardless of age, Architecture is tough and requires positive energy to handle the stress - along with a sense of professionalism and good will toward others.
Perhaps you've just chosen the wrong profession. If so, given your state of mind, I suggest you practice this simple phrase:
"Would you like fries with that Sir (or Ma'm)...........
Yeah, jeebus, chill out, med.: it's not only 20-somethings that have been laid off in this recession, and I know lots of 50-somethings who are laid off or panicked that they are about to be, or have packed it in (like the OP) and are doing their own thing to try to keep a minimal lifestyle together. Replace your rant above about "you guys screwed everything up" by inserting "black people" or "Jews" instead of "olds" and listen to how incendiary it sounds.
You all spend way too much money doing way too many stupid things and you were far too stupud to know anything about the world so you wanted us to go out there and kill a bunch of people just because there was no mpore big and bad scary communists - so what better way now than to go out there and kill a bunch of Moslems! I'm 45 years old and NONE of this statement applies to me or my attitudes toward our country's actions. Yet poll a bunch of non-college educated 20 year olds and you'll hear a LOT of support for "killing Muslims".
You have a lot of rage, and not a lot of perspective. Remember that in 1990 most of my college graduating class couldn't find work for a year, too - not as deep or long a recession as this one is, but architecture has *always* been heavily hit by recessions, cyclically: if you can't stand the uncertainty of it, you really should consider another line of work, though frankly in *this* recession no profession at all is immune, and I'm guessing that's going to be SOP for the next several decades.
Nevermind.
It's also pretty tough to be an owner of a firm when nothing is getting built - not only are you owning a marginally-running business, but you might also not be getting paid. I knew at least a few principal-level people who had at least several months to a year of not taking a paycheck to meet payroll. It's not like you can easily walk away from that, or fire yourself.
Maybe you've just been working at crappy firms (it's not like architects are stereotyped to be good at business), or are particularly sensitive to being wronged. It's tough to live with so much bitterness, and ultimately not constructive! Maybe this is why you seem to be having a harder time finding productive things to do.
Lots of bad things happen in each 'generation' (whatever one of those is - wasn't Vietnam started by people who fought in World War II?), but they shape a lot of things we take for granted. I'm pretty glad that the boomer era changed some (very basic) things that I don't even think about now, like being able to have serious female coworkers and not having to take into consideration the race of someone I have a relationship with.
med. quick! Jump on my valociraptor, I'm getting you outta here. Never wage a landwar with boomers, man. The trick is to wait till sunset when they are back in their retirement suites. Chain the doors and burn the place down! It's the only way to be sure.
That said, I think peeps are misunderstanding you here. The issue of 'boomer hate' is not personal. It's just a good example of how major demographic shifts work. In this case it's the great post-war monoculture. Boomers brought us suburbs, death of American cities, slavery to motor and oil companies, and (to be fair) some killer rock'n'roll! Now they are too old and set in their ways to deal with crisis such as the one we are in. We will be stuck in this political purgatory until the boomer voting power becomes insignificant. And with medical breakthroughs, we may have to wait till forever (here's hoping Obama's deathpanels work on commission).
Comment summary: Soylent Green is boomers!
...'cause infant and child boomers built all those suburbs in the '50s and '60s.
Larger trends in society are really tough to pin on one demographic group.
MaxministerFicus, suburbs of 50s and 60s are Manhattan compared to crap that was built afterwards. Your point about trends v. demographics is mostly valid, but purchasing power of the boomers has had a significant impact on current state of affairs. Look at Iran for another great example of weird post-war demographics (Sadam nearly killed entire generation of men).
Monoculture is never good, be that potatoes, corn, poodles, or people.
"Med. Where's the love buddy?"
You attacked me first and iumputed a bunch of thoughts into my head and made absoutely ridiculous assumptions that were categorically untrue. No love needed.
You're filled with hate - yet you proclaim a desire for World Peace
Another stupid and uneducated assumption. I do want world peace but all your generation wants is fearmongering and war.
"You despise 'boomers' and wish they were dead - yet you expect them to mentor you"
Again, don't put fucking words in my mouth. There is a certain expectation you all have on us and that is to be professional and productive yet all we see is the guys calling shots screwing everyone over - see Enron, see Lehman Brothers, see WorldCom, see all the other architecture firms that were bought out by megaconglomorates that just chewed them up and spit them all out. What kind of message does this send to those you wish to mentor. You have expectations of us - we follow - and we have expectation of you - to LEAD.
"You posess negative hostility toward your profession - yet you can't understand why former co-workers would enjoy seeing you leave their workspace."
Not even worthy of a response. You don't know me.
"Gee, and I'd given you the benifit of the doubt and attempted to provide worth while advise to lighten your heavy load. So here's a little more:
Regardless of age, Architecture is tough and requires positive energy to handle the stress - along with a sense of professionalism and good will toward others."
I love architecture. Not stupidity like that bag of drivel posted above.
You are really starting to be boring.
blashph, right on with your Gaudi comment. One thing I am grateful for is that my architectural education was free, i just wish i had chose pharmacy...so i would have a job now and a hefty salary.
"Perhaps you've just chosen the wrong profession. If so, given your state of mind, I suggest you practice this simple phrase:
"Would you like fries with that Sir (or Ma'm)..........."
Nice so you preach and preach all of your self-righteous bull shit and now when anyone questions the absolute dismal state of the profession, you ask them if you would like fries with that? Really?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
And on the contrary I love architecture.
Arguing amongst ourselves about which generation is at fault is productive... Let's not forget the wise words that we wear proudly emblazoned on our chests: Architecture Sucks. This business is hard.
"Replace your rant above about "you guys screwed everything up" by inserting "black people" or "Jews" instead of "olds" and listen to how incendiary it sounds."
Oh my.....This has to be the dumbest thing you have ever said. So what are you saying ? I'm anti-black and anti-Semitic now? None of what you said in that sentence makes any sense.
Sure other people were laid off - including one of my super awesome and cool former bosses (and I think it's because he was super awesome and cool) But It is no laughing matter that an overwhelming majority of my generation was the first to go in your little "Great Recession." Now are going to follow that oldieorwhatever poster by telling young people who have grievances if they would like fries with that?
Stephen according to everyone here it seems like our generation is at fault for everything much in evidence to the fact that an overwhelming number of us have been the ones to meet with the mighty axe.
100 years ago, there was a similar battle in architecture - those young punk hipsters Le Corbusier, Gropius and Mies where on to the latest technologies and rebelled against those old 19th century types - "why Le Corbusier can't even draw - look at those scribbles" he can't draw this Corinthian capital - he is no architect
Frank Lloyd Wright felt threatened by those punks and would go off on them in front of the "fellows" swatting flies named Gropius or Corbusier and Mies.
If Zenakis was alive today, he would be over there across the bay with #occupy Oakland -
w/o argument, there is no progress
zenakis, the arguments you are talking about are intellectual. We are talking about sustenance here, and the fact that the way architectural practices are structured (by influence of the AIA, NCARB or who have you) do not encourage spreading the work on all levels, but on highly concentrated points.
It seems the most desirable groups these days are employees aged 20-30 (for the Rhino, Revit and Grasshopper wizardry) and those aged 45-55 (for experience and still being slightly current). The others seem to be screwed. There is no other profession where this polarization occurs. This is an unsustainable model and something needs to change soon.
given that most of my office is between 30 and 40, i'm not seeing it, s.o.d.
sure, the principals are over 40, but that's to be expected, right?
no one *wanted* to lay off anyone over the last few years, i expect. and the decisions about layoffs aren't targeted at certain age/culture demographics so much as they are about who is bringing value at a given point in time that can keep a firm solvent.
All my friends that are 30-40 are without jobs, except like 3 and they don't even work in firms. Architecture indeed sucks. I don't blame the old folks for the recession, there are plenty of young people that don't value money and have abused their credit that got us into this mess. But I do sympathize with med on the lack of mentoring and leadership in architecture, it is just so incredibly inadequate.
The point is in all of this..... At least you guys were given a chance to establish yourselves before shit hit the fan. You guys were able to afford homes, nice cars, and were able to start families. None of us can do anyt of the above without breaking bank.
Despite what some of you think, I'm not a selfish person and have been blessed to be gainfully employed hroughout much of the "Great Recession." I identify with my generation because many of them were not as lucky as me and I feel for every single one of them. It pains me when I get phenominal resumes/portfolios from people (with the idea I might be able to pass it allong to a higher up) -- It pains my heart because they believe I might be their final hope in getting them employed even though I can do virtually nothing.
After five years of employment at one firm (and fearing each and every one of those days would be my last) I was finally laid off last year (on my birthday) mainly because of redundancies caused by several mergers and the ugly corporation politics that followed. Just ugly ugly office politics where you can imagine allegiances needed to be established and along with that the expected backstabbings and gosip mongering. It was very nasty and a moralle was at an all-time low in the midst of a rapidly evaporating workload. Keep in mind, I was 100% billable but because I was kept things professional enough not to take sides or be in stupid and immature office allegiances I was considered a target. Everyone was shocked by my departure actually.
This is an anonymous message board where we should be free to show our frustrations as I would expect everyone to do. I don't go around naming names or companies and such. I am only interested in telling you my experiences from my angle. Because no one is hearing it. Some of you make it out to sound like this is the way I would talk in the profession - I wouldn't be employed if that were the case.
This is not a "great recession." It is the early stages of a deflationary depression. And there is still a lot of leverage out there that needs to be unwound so it is unlikely that things will improve anytime soon.
Sadly, it's fucking us all (every generation) in the ass hard, yo!
I totally get the need to vent. Actually, I'm not surprised the older folks aren't venting more (maybe not computer literate?). It would be horrible to start in a fairly stable profession, assured of success, only to become less and less stable until you were finally laid off five years before you could retire. It's hard to start out and not immediately have the means to afford a stable life - it's even harder to start out with those means, only to have them taken away from you.
Being on the receiving end of this myself (it is hard to get a job in architecture! I am six months away from having enough IDP hours to finish the legal process of licensure once and for all, and have been for like three years), I totally get some of the sentiments - things are top-heavy, architects eat their young, etc., etc. Things are hard, although I usually also hear how hard things are from the perspective of the older people too; it sort of makes it hard for me to be angry at them for long.
I can only speak for myself here, but if there had been no recession, my career trajectory would have been infinitely more boring. I probably would have worked as an architect up until becoming a PM (and would be licensed now), going through the ranks or possibly striking out on my own, but never really questioning the way I operated as a traditional practitioner. I would basically be rising through the ranks inside a system that others had designed, my comfortable path written for me by tradition, playing within the confines of the rules set by traditional practice, for the rest of my life. It's easy to go with the flow.
Because of the recession, this path is no longer really open to me if I want to advance and have the sort of career I want. But in a way, it's empowering. There were things that kind of bothered me about the profession, and I've been able (forced to?) pursue a path that I feel addresses a lot of those issues and makes me a stronger architect/engineer/whatever. It's taken experience outside the field and an extra degree, but I feel far more in charge of my career than if I had stayed in the confines of traditional practice, doing what I had been originally trained to do. I don't quite know what will happen, so it's a little scary, but if it were easy and worth doing it would have been done already.
It's perverse to call the recession and its timing a gift. However, I do feel it has made me stronger in a strange way, and I think it's because of having the 'correct' perspective. I don't know if I would feel this way if I were much older and this were happening. I have friends who have been 'sort of lucky' in that they work long hours for little pay in unfulfilling jobs in badly-run firms because 'it's the way things are done', and it is frustrating to see them feel stuck - even more so because the economy inhibits firm-jumping.
The happiest people I know have taken their training and made it their own, sometimes doing things that aren't even architecture. I wish we were all like this. We'd be a much stronger (and happier) profession.
Med. I am sorry you are not meeting senior professionals in architecture who in your eyes and perhaps my own have their moral compass aligned with our own. But it is a big world and there is some experienced older architect out there who you may find to be a role model. It is hard to find them and even harder to muster the courage and humility to ask for help and advice.
The community project I mentioned has borne fruit, I now have a small church renovation to make a small stage for sound equipment accessible, it pays not much but wow things happen as a result of the contacts you make when you do work in the community.
I may be a total weirdo but I think the best thing to do is to get a few recently retired architects together for Sunday brunch, oh the stories they tell. If you do this I recommend you have lots of sketch paper and pens around and just have the patients to listen, so many fun and interesting “War Stories” this kind of mentorship requires the following ingredients:
1-1/2 dozen eggs
Cooking oil (Pam)
Pepper, tomato, onion, cilantro, and other veggies diced
½ -1 pound bacon
Good bread for toast
Butter
Pens
Paper
Orange juice
Champaign (for mimosas)
Coffee
Bloody Mary mix
Three to six senior architects
And a humble invitation
Prepare ingredients on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon and you will have interesting stories, ideas and a new perspective.
When you reach the end of your career it must be flattering and nearly impossible to resist an invitation to share some of what you learned. I wonder if such an invitation would be perceived as some kind of honor.
I find that being humble is often easier than being arrogant, and you often get what you want or what you need with less hassle and more friends to share the fortune with. It all takes time.
I think PJN26's recipe for success is one of the best posts I've read in quite a while --on several levels.
(And I'd add a little grated cheese for the eggs.)
PJ, your current concept of a mentor is a person who is teaching you to work for free. Think about it. Maybe you should be drinking cheap beer with people who work for a living instead of trading war stories about broken lead holders and mylar.
Dunnint-Kruger effect
hmmm, food for thought...
retired architects? how do you meet these magical creatures?
I think retired architects, much like those who can work for free when it's more convenient, are living off trust funds given to them by either their wealthy family or their spouses wealthy family. Just a theory.
Second on PJN26's post *almost* being the best post out there, except [s]he forgot to include heart-healthy things in the breakfast - egg beaters? Fruit? Sometimes, retired architects have to watch their diets, y'know.
I'm glad we're in a profession where people are pretty willing and eager to talk about their experiences. I can think of very few architects who respond to questions with something like 'that's a secret' or 'I don't want to talk about that' - the advantage of working in a field where people generally like the concept of what they do, if not always the execution or the pay.
No Retired Architects? I am one. No great secret. Takes a LOT of penny pinching, a little luck and studiously avoiding the I-love-this-work-so-much-I'd-do-it-for-nothing mentality that pervades this profession. It now gives me the luxury of an I-hate-this-work-so-much-I-wouldn't-even-do-it-for-money mindset.
curtkram: "I think retired architects ... are living off trust funds given to them by either their wealthy family or their spouses wealthy family. Just a theory."
LOL
I've retired and I can assure you that -- in my case at least -- the theory espoused above could not be farther from the truth. I can afford to be retired because my spouse and I started planning for retirement -- with a vengence -- when in our 30s.
quiz - congrats on your retirement! did you buy a motorhome or are you now living in florida? (or both?)
Thanks geezertect and Quzzical. I will take your experiences into account and amend my previous theory. If my generation and the millennials can sustain jobs with a sufficient income to maintain a reasonable quality of life, and if we maintain personal discipline, maybe we too will be able to retire some day.
By the way, congratulations on your retirement Quizzical. It seems you were working last month, so I assume that's new? I hope it is good new for you rather than forced.
toaster: No, no motorhome -- although we are thinking about a travel trailer in order to spend more time visiting parts of the US we haven't seen yet. Definitely not planning to join the 'old folks' in FL -- we're stlll living where we've always lived.
curt: My retirement was a long-time coming, as part of a well organized transition plan. Although I've left my firm, you might actually say that I'm 'semi-retired' now since I'm still doing a little work out of my house, helping an old developer friend with some residential design. However, I don't see that lasting very long since I'm eager to devote a lot more time to some of my other interests in life.
Some additional thoughts occurred to me since my earlier post. Much of the recent generation of graduates seems rather fatalistic about the profession. Given the state of the economy the past several years, I suppose that fatalism is not wholly unexpected.
However, over a fairly long career, I've experienced a series of rather frequent and rather severe economic downturns. I've lost my own job twice and my wife lost her job once. I can remember some rather desperate years, especially when our children were very young. Each of those downturns left us absolutely convinced that the profession would never recover, yet it always bounced back (sometimes in spite of itself).
Despite these periodic ups and downs, we continued to live frugally and save at an unnaturally high rate. With the passage of time, those savings gave us freedom and flexibility. And, because we made some decent investment decisions, it became financially possible for us to retire at a time of our choosing.
The practice of architecture is very hard, but it need not condemn us to economic poverty. Those of us who really love architecture find it hard to imagine any other way to spend one's time. However, one always must recognize the profession for what it is (warts and all) and operate accordingly.
IMHO, economic success for most of us requires dedication, hard work, frugality and a willingness to adjust one's lifestyle as conditions dictate. Working in architeccture is not a guarantee of economic success -- but, neither is it an insurmountable barrier to success. In my view, it's really all about how you decide to conduct yourself and your life. It's about making certain necessary trade-offs to achieve what you want long-term.
quizzical,
You make good points, but speaking as a recent grad (B. Arch and M Arch) that fatalism isn't just some temporary ailment. It's a full-blown panic. And it's a well earned panic.
You have to remember that most students are coming out in huge debt. And the student debt has skyrocketed in the past decade. Not only that, but most recent graduates began school before the recession, so it was not something an 18 year old high school student could have foreseen.
I personally went back to grad school to ride out the recession. I grew tremendously, and I am a better person/designer for it. I had that fleeting moment of optimism about "taking charge of my own life" quickly squashed once I re-entered the job market, and I realized that my personal growth and maturity didn't add value to my job prospects. It's still incredibly difficult to land an interview, and I find myself downplaying my experience so that I can get survival jobs. Sure, I can get the odd job here and there and put my skillets to use, but the lack of security is really aging me quite quickly, and the IDP hours seem like an obstacle that is continuously running ahead of me.
You mentioned that you saved diligently, and that's honorable. But for recent graduates, the prospect of saving is becoming impossible. How can graduates save when they can barely cover their expenses? And forget starting a family, how can someone do that when they'll be buried in debt from all those loans they took out for an evaporating job market?
The issues most graduates face is that the access to those opportunities literally dried up while they were preparing in school for their professional life.
And to be quite honest, I think it takes a certain level of disillusionment to think that positive thinking is going to change someone's outlook. Sure, there will be some outliers here and there, and that's good for them. But for most Americans, (not just architects) without a basic re-distribution of wealth then the access that was afforded previous generations is not going to be available to recent graduates. Even the most frugal, cautious, and careful planning and rigorous work ethic is not going to be enough to keep many Americans from being swallowed whole by this recession. And that's just a reality that needs to be confronted.
This country is very sick right now, and I just have a real hard time seeing a recovery when all of the evidence is pointing toward some type of collapse. The people who have amassed absurd levels of prosperity during this large-scale transfer of wealth are going to do everything within their power to maintain this inequality, and it's not going to be pretty. We're at the end-game of Monopoly right now, and most of the country is sitting at the table bankrupt, waiting for the Banker to wipe the grin off his face and put the cards back on the table so that we can start over.
The sad thing, though, is that what emerges after that re-structuring is going to be AMAZING. Seriously, if there is a silver-lining in all of this, it is that a new social-political movement WILL emerge from this, and the architecture that it manifests will be great.
I just hope everyone can hang on until we reach that point. Until then, I'm gonna go have a drink.
quizz - congratulations on moving to 'act 2' (or 3 or 4 as the case may be). i'm not nearly close to retirement but feel like a similar change is out there...
newguy - one of the outcomes of this particular recession that i think is different for most of us (say under 80) is how the impacts - professional, personal, etc. - seem random and indiscriminate. meaning, people who are incredibly talented seem to catch no breaks whatsoever but some people who seem dumber than a box of rocks graduate and find a job in 2 days. throw in the fact that this is happening at a widespread scale and, yes, it's incredibly discouraging.
but.
opportunities really are out there. people are getting hired. work is happening for some firms. is it enough that everyone who wants a job will be able to find one? no. and it's not likely to be that way for a while - until many unemployed (or yet to be employed) architects move on into other fields and the economy as a whole recovers.
in the end, what you mentioned - 'stability' - is really at the core of the overall unease in the country. and the reality is we've only had very brief interludes of true economic instability since wwii (and this is the longest and most severe by far). i think most people on the economic spectrum would fully agree that a stable and modestly rising middle class is the best hope to achieve long term prosperity for the country as a whole. unfortunately, for 30 years, we've pursued policies and allowed systems to be built that make the reality of that stability far more difficult to achieve.
from what you say about yourself, though, maybe you need some mentoring on the 'how' of creating a space within the system for yourself, instead of looking to plug into something else. maybe? or am i reading it incorrectly?
maybe you need some mentoring on the 'how' of creating a space within the system for yourself
I think I need some of that too...
Quizzical, I'm really glad that all worked out for you but what you describe will NEVER be the case for us.
Most of us are in far more debt than any of you. School was somewhat more affordable for your generation and is not at all for us. Your generation has driven up all the prices for everything to unbearable levels while the incomes of architects have changed very little. It's almost as if architects allowed other industries to walk all over us......
But hey - I really am happy for you.
Newguy, great post (sorry to hear the state of affairs) and you are articulating a situation I have suspected regarding recent graduates. I agree that there are opportunities, but it is a question of the ratio of those opportunities relative to people chasing them. Is it 1 to 10, or more like 1 to 100?
I recently saw an interview on Bill Moyers (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html) with 2 economists on their new book, I think it is going to be an interesting read regarding this broader topic in America:
http://www.amazon.com/Winner-Take-All-Politics-Washington-Richer-Turned/dp/1416588698
My only suggestion for you is that if you can't find any water in this well, go start looking in other wells. An architectural education does have weight and meaning in the market place with potential employers. Who knows you may even find something you enjoy doing more!
that being the case - if it is 1:100 or 1:200 - then what are the qualifications of the successful 1% or 1/2% of graduates that can get a job?
Good looks and family connections. :-)
zenakis, I have a theory on that too (which may be refuted by our older and wiser members).
There was a time when what mattered is what you knew. You knew how to do your job, you did your job, that was enough. Then, 'character' became important, and it wasn't 'what you know' so much as 'who you are.' Then the 80's came along and it wasn't 'who you are' but 'who you know' that became important. I believe we have the baby boomers to thank for that.
With the advent of an economic/ political system that rewards investors at the expense of those of us who work for a living (probably what Keith's book above suggests), along with the 'who you know' crap the baby boomers gave us, then I would suggest the available jobs are being provided as favors. It's essentially a quid-pro-quo situation within the investor class. I think this has been going on for quite a while, but since there were more jobs available only some of them were being traded as favors. Now that the decision makers have to decide whether to take a given employee as a favor or hire someone based solely on qualifications, they may be preferring the favor. As a commodity, the job is worth lot more now than it used to be, and the employee is worth a lot less.
If that is the case, then you should probably try to put yourself in a situation where you can be collateral for someone in the investor class. Seriously, I wish I knew how to help you guys.
Curtkram
You are so right
I am told after interviews "you certainly have the technical qualifications" "but we don't feel you would be a good cultural fit"
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