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That was my first concern, too, that you would open yourself up to MORE liability if you get licensed.  So yes, you're right.  Don't do it for now but keep an open mind about the future! 

Jul 16, 13 1:04 pm

Liability issue harms the creative side of architecture like it did with few other sectors. Re; license at 50, I also got my first tenure track job at 57. Retirement is not what I plan on. Thank you for quoting me Donna, greetings from Türkiye TC..

Jul 16, 13 1:38 pm

I also got my first tenure track job at 57. Retirement is not what I plan on.

Just curious, if you choose to answer.  For how long were you an adjunct prior to getting onto the tenure track?

Jul 16, 13 3:43 pm

in this particular school, 2 semesters. 

Jul 16, 13 3:55 pm

how's turkey?  i haven't seen much since the protests.  hopefully it's somewhat squared out, and they aren't going to bulldoze city parks anymore?

Jul 16, 13 4:12 pm

Orhan, congratulations.  I've seen some people do the adjunct racket for ~ 7 years prior to landing a c.c. teaching job on a full-time basis.  In most cases, it has been in the liberal arts and social sciences, and they were "freeway flyers" (a standard colloquialism) prior to that.  I think that, with more specific fields, it might be better.

Jul 16, 13 4:45 pm
Sarah Hamilton

Is that how you spell Turkey in Turkish, Orhan?  How did it get its name, do you know?  It doesn't seem like a place that would be a habitat for turkeys, and the area is older than England anyway, isn't it, so it can't be that the English named it after the birds, so how did it happen?

This is how my mind works, sorry.  Culture fascinates me so much, that if we met at a party, or bar, there's a good chance I would ask you something crazy just like that.  I'm actually so curious that I'm not even going to wait for you to respond, and I'm going to try to look it up.  I'd still like to hear what you say, though.

Jul 16, 13 9:19 pm
Sarah Hamilton

'Turkey was named for the Turks, believe it or not. Turk can mean either 'a citizen of the modern state of Turkey' or more broadly, 'an individual of the Turkic-speaking people.' The many Turkic languages are spoken not only in Turkey but also in a large area of central Asia and in northern Siberia. The real question is the origin of the name Turk. The word is essentially the same in many languages, including English, Turkish, Arabic, and Persian (Farsi). It probably comes from some Turkish root, but there's no consensus on which one. It may be one root meaning 'strong' or 'vigorous' (according to the American Heritage Dictionary) or it may be another meaning 'the people' (according to the Encyclopedia Americana).
There are a couple of other theories of how the country got its name, both wrong. The first has it that the country was named after the first leader of the Turkish Republic, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. But like most Turks, Mustafa didn't have any surname at all until 1934, when he chose Ataturk ('Father of the Turks') for himself. He had already given the country its western-influenced name Turkiye several years earlier. During the period of the empire, the Turkish name for the country had nothing to do with the Turks. Rather, it was named for the Osman (Ottoman) dynasty that ruled it. Another theory has it that the English named the country after the bird, as a taunt. But the country was already called 'Turki' or 'Turkeye' in English by 1275, hundreds of years before the bird was known in the Old World.


Turks was the name of the indigenous people and the word may have meant 'strong and powerful'. The bird turkey was so named in error and originally used for African guinea fowl imported from Guinea and through Turkey. The American turkey eaten at Thanksgiving and Christmas was wrongly identified as a species of African guinea fowl, so was given the same name.
Brewer's Dictionary of Names.

Well, that's a quick search.  Not sure I'm happy with the outcomes, but I'd have to dig a lot deeper.  Instead, I now wonder if all Ottomans were Turks, and then what happened to end the Ottoman Empire (what do you call that, Otto, Ottoma?)  My brain is an endless spiral.

Jul 16, 13 9:32 pm

hey n_ !

probably potential for more money (not that it's everything) going owner/developer route.

also congrats Orhan on the upgrade. Wish i could share some time in Turkey with you...

Jul 16, 13 10:06 pm

curtkram, I really don't know what is happening in the urban centers yet but the conversations in the little fishing village of a town where I am staying oscillates between recent politics and politicians to how much fish so and so caught this morning. Then a dog chases a stranger's car as we all watch. All activity gets either amplified or distracted by a couple of scantily dressed strolling women who obviously enjoy the celebrity status attention. Then from our chairs we jump into the Aegean Sea to cool down.  

Sarah, keep digging. There is a lot about who the Turks are.

Observant, thank you!

Nam, yeah!

Jul 17, 13 4:16 am

Sarah, that's the kind of stuff I talk about at parties too. If this was a party, I'd say, "Did you know the English word turquoise is rooted in Turk as well?" Oh, and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire came post WWI, but I don't know how exactly.

Jul 17, 13 8:42 am
Sarah Hamilton

Fascinating!  I learned while digging last night, the India Chicken is another name for turkey.  So strange.

And I know it had something to do WWI, but all I know about WWI is that either Prince or Duke Ferdinand was shot, and then everyone went crazy.  I blame the high school coach that I had for history class.  I think part of the issue is that we were taught about WWI when we were 15, and had no way to relate.  At the same time, there wasn't some definitive villain like in WWII, so it must have been more complex.  I'd love to understand it better now; maybe I should make the switch to non-fiction.

I just read a book called Lady Macbeth, and learned that Macbeth was an actual ruler of Scotland, and his wife wasn't crazy.  Damn Shakespeare for skewing history for me.

Jul 17, 13 10:06 am

Causes of WWI, told in a humorous manner:

Jul 17, 13 10:27 am
Sarah Hamilton

That video was awesome!  It all seems so silly, really.

Jul 17, 13 3:15 pm
It was silly Sarah. If you like movies I'd recommend watching all quiet on the western front for German (kind of) point of view of the nonsense.

Your life sounds idyllic orhan.
Jul 17, 13 6:41 pm

Your life sounds idyllic orhan.

Well, the Mediterranean is an idyllic place, if you ignore some of the economic and political hassles the area currently is seeing.  I have met a person in each Greece, Italy, and Portugal (technically not the Med), and on short trips, who was born in the U.S. to immigrant parents from those countries, who decided somewhere between reaching the age of majority and adulthood to make their ancestral countries their home ... and have never looked back.  Typically, they are the offspring of the latest wave of immigration from Europe, which was down to a trickle by the end, and they had all of the cultural traditions and personal styles in place in their homes when growing up.  I guess they felt that there would always be a chasm between the value system they had adopted as a baseline and that of standard issue WASPs, and decided to take that step.  I have no clue what they did to make it pencil.  In a way, I could see why they bolted.  My parents told me they had some tight friends who were pushing them to come to their second tier (population wise) Midwestern city's ethnic enclave upon arriving to the U.S., while our relatives were in the greater N.Y.C. area.  I asked my parents if they would have crossed the pond had that other city been their only option, or contained our relatives.  They said they would have stayed put.

Oh well, 3 wonderful weeks in July 2012 in the Med, and in islands off the coast of Morocco but belonging to European countries, was great, and boarding the big plane to come home was tough.

Jul 17, 13 8:42 pm

Orhan i think you love LA/California to much to ever move or no?

nite nite all off to bed...

Jul 17, 13 11:04 pm

Nam, I shouldn't have said anything!  Generally, those who live in a major coastal California city from other places in the world gladly call it their new home.  Those from, let's say Albany or Syracuse NY, might give it a second thought.  Or those from Detroit or Flint MI.

Jul 17, 13 11:32 pm

I am pretty much an LA person. I never lived anywhere as long as I lived in Los Angeles. I studied architecture and the city here and don't want to move to anywhere else at the moment. My life have a lot of rough spots but I enjoy it nevertheless. Both Izmir and LA are home to me.  Former pulling the umbilical cord and the latter having fused with my intellectual existence.

Jul 18, 13 3:21 am

That's interesting, Orhan.  I don't think i would ever have become expat if i had family in any of the countries i've lived in.

I moved to be as far away as possible from anything familiar.  can't imagine what it would be like to be immigrant in search of a better life, not just a different life.  Having found it (or not) can't imagine ever moving back either.  Kind of weird I want my kids to go to Canada to live at least for awhile, but am not sure I want to live there myself. 

anyway, at some point we should all live in idyllic place if we can. if only for a few weeks.

Jul 18, 13 3:21 am

Considering most Americans remain within a certain limited radius from where they grew up, I'm adventurous.  By other people's standards, I would be provincial.  I only travel to countries where, other than English being the main language, they speak a Latin based language and are relatively crime free, UNLESS I am accompanied by someone of that country.  That really only means southern Europe, a few countries in South America, and Quebec.  The transition is effortless and makes for a relaxing vacation.

Greece was cool, but what the fuck is "^A^APIA"?  College statistics was good for something: ^ = lambda and P = rho.  Thus, it was "LALARIA," the exotic white beach on the island of Skiathos.  But after a week of converting Greek signs phonetically, it was time to go home.

Forget the Cyclades islands (Mykonos, Paros, etc.), check out the Sporades:

Jul 18, 13 12:49 pm
vado retro

im an expat. i live in louisianastan.

Jul 18, 13 12:54 pm

^ Didn't we invade there a few years ago?

Jul 18, 13 1:18 pm

^  No, but we got a screaming deal when we bought it in 1803, as did the Dutch when they bought Manhattan in 1624, or 1642, for a pittance.  Why couldn't I have been born into money?  I could just "do" architecture as a hobby.

Jul 18, 13 1:29 pm

hi guys - here's my plan to get published:


redo an existing concrete space -  exposed mech painted white, sloppy floor refinish job, put in cheap linear florescent fixtures at jaunty angles, a supergraphic on one wall (preferably a rip-off of sagmeister circa 1995), a few overpriced classic chairs from DWR, maybe a plywood reception desk - and blurry bearded hipsters (or circus bears) riding dutch-style bikes.


and I'll list about 30 people on the "design team."

Jul 18, 13 4:55 pm

observant: I think you're wrong. Blackwater mercenaries were deployed there in '09. 

Jul 18, 13 5:10 pm


I was thinking the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 - of Louisiana and then some, and a whole bunch of alligators to sweeten the pot.

Jul 18, 13 6:08 pm

I guess everyone has a fried brain on the East  Coast.  I took extreme measures today and set up some temporary shading devices on the West wall of our house, being stone it absorbs a lot more heat when it is not in the shade.  I was out testing it today and to the touch of the hand it is significant.  Thinking with Global Warming, I'm going to go for a long term solution, I have been thinking about a portable  screening system for the summer cause during the winter the sun is most desirable  so don't want to exclude it. Of course this project is on a Architects I have to be inventive.  Anyone have suggestions.

Panels need to be  around  6' tall.

Jul 19, 13 6:08 pm

Bang for the buck:

A tensioned tarp with grommeted holes roped to eye screws, stakes, etc.

Jul 19, 13 7:21 pm

trellis and virginia creeper.

Jul 19, 13 7:52 pm

you do need to keep tabs on it otherwise it'll overtake your house - but the leaves fall off in the winter and produces some stunning red foliage in the fall.  if you offset the trellis far enough you probably don't really need to do much.

Jul 19, 13 8:05 pm

Deciduous trees work nice for summer shade winter sun.  Especially if you stager them in a triangular pattern.  Like this.   •  .  •  .  •

Jul 19, 13 8:34 pm

Also, pretty sure Virginia creeper won't need a trellis. It should be able to adhere itself to the wall. You can train it with some wire.  

Jul 19, 13 8:40 pm

it doesn't need a trellis on a masonry wall - but you do need to do something to prevent it from destroying your eaves - trellis is pretty clean and you can have it go up high and just trim at top before it hits the house.  also - cleaning masonry wall can be a pain after removing vines...

Jul 19, 13 10:54 pm

i have honeysuckle on my fence line.  some consider it evasive, but if you want to fill a trellis the size of your house fast in the spring, that's not a bad thing.  it's quite sturdy so it doesn't take any care.  i attack mine with a hedge trimmer or weed eater about 2 times a year so it keeps a decent shape.  it flowers, and the flowers smell nice, so i see that as a big plus over virginia creeper.

also you can grow a climbing rose on a trellis, but that would take forever to get established.

i wonder if "tensioned tarp with grommeted holes" means blue plastic tarp with bungee cords?

Jul 20, 13 9:45 am
Curtkram I hate to be a spelling nazi but I think you mean invasive. Though I love the idea of a honeysuckle vine being evasive: "well it's not like you ever said I wasn't *allowed* to grow all over your backyard..."

Snook I'm more and more convinced we should all live in houses modeled after Judith Chafee's Ramada House! Shading devices for everyone!!
Jul 20, 13 2:44 pm

I have a trellis covered in vines  at the gable end of the house which has a large window facing directly west.  It is  12' wide and 12' tall  situated off the wall by about  3 feet.  So I know all about having to keep it under control.  I'm not sure of the vines name but it grows quickly and flowers for a long period of time.   We also have a Wisteria (SP) Vine which is no were close to the house it over a a trellis that spans a gate into our back yard.  It is a monster so we trim it all summer long.  It will send shoots that will grow a foot a day. We have a nice self starting   15'-0' maple in a good location so it will in a couple of years be a real god send when it comes to shading the west side of the house roof.  We have a line of "Rose of Sharon"  bushes along the south side of the house which do a great job of providing  shade on the wall yet allow enough summer light to enter  our office.  

I was just curious how much temp difference there would be between a shaded wall and and unshaded wall when  it was hovering around 100 degrees outside in the middle of the afternoon.  I have concluded,  something has to be done.

Jul 20, 13 3:19 pm

Depending of course on the wall material, angle of incidence, etc., you could easily see more than 30 degrees difference.

Jul 20, 13 4:24 pm
Sarah Hamilton

Why not Bris soliel? (Fix THAT spelling, Donna)  I need to do the calculations, and build a few for my west and south facing windows.  You could angle the slats so they only block the summer sun.  Otherwise, trees.  I like trees.  I don't like vines on houses because I don't like bugs, and we have lots of those in Texas.  Now that I think about it, you could do what some Texans do, and just wash the wall with a sprinkler.  I've seen folks do this on top of trailer houses.  Not very green, though.

Or build a lean-to, then you could store stuff in your shading device!

You should start a thread.  Design my western wall shading device!

Jul 20, 13 7:40 pm

green curtains are super popular here now.  every school and lots of homes have them on balconies.  usually with some kind of vegetable like goya.  it works very well to reduce heat and sits off the building so no worries about it becoming evasive.

Jul 20, 13 9:16 pm

Sarah,  Water is extremely expensive where I live.  So you don't use it for the obvious reasons.  

My temporary solution  to provide partial shading was 1/2" 3'X' 5 sheets of  Hardi tile backer board.  I had three sheets left over from a project.  One good thing about it is you don't have to worry about it getting wet.  It seemed to do the trick.  Along with my  deck  umbrella in front of the window (providing shade for the window ac unit).   We have survived this go around of a heat wave, so now it is time to  make some long term changes, knowing how much difference it will make over the course of the summer.

Jul 21, 13 11:49 am

Have you ever spent a day, or portions of several days, just tearing up paper - accumulated junk mail and paperwork you really didn't need to hang on to?  Cathartic, huh?  It made me wonder if I was a hoarder, anal-retentive, or a little of both.

Jul 21, 13 11:57 am


How are you feeling about not doing architecture anymore? Do you miss it? I had a moment today, looking at Houzz, that I just feel like I can't stand another frigging' day of this profession.  Like every homemowner, real estate agent, developer, cabinetmaker, and gay man in the world feels like we're useless, so why bother any more?

Ugh, existential angst.  But seriously: if I could earn a decent living doing something else, lately I feel like I'd leap at the opportunity.

Jul 21, 13 10:40 pm

^ Only a moment?

Jul 21, 13 10:59 pm

I wish people, in general, would qualify their bitching about architecture.  I'm talking about everyone who bitches about it, here and everywhere else.  And everyone complains - everywhere I talk to architects.  Friends' parents who were architects advised me to go into something else, since some of them were no longer in traditional practice.

I doubt anyone dislikes the work itself.  I think most people dislike the milieu.  Granted, it is not possible to separate the two.  However, the work, even the most mundane, is interesting.  The milieu (obtuse or cheap clients, dysfunctional offices, pricing jobs, billings and cash flow, people in-house who require babysitting, and people on the team who also need babysitting) is the problem.  Sometimes, you run into clients, coworkers, consultants, and contractors (all "c"s, coincidentally) who have a sense of humor, and it takes off the edge.

Jul 21, 13 11:14 pm

started from the bottom now we here

Jul 22, 13 3:44 am
That's a pity Donna. Don't think I've ever felt that. Or not quite. We turn down clients that don't match our approach and since we give work to the builders couldn't care less if they think we're worthless or nuts. Maybe it's about control ?
Jul 22, 13 3:56 am
That's a pity Donna. Don't think I've ever felt that. Or not quite. We turn down clients that don't match our approach and since we give work to the builders couldn't care less if they think we're worthless or nuts. Maybe it's about control ?
Jul 22, 13 3:56 am
Stupid phone.
Btw what's houzz?
Jul 22, 13 3:57 am

I think I'd enjoy this profession a lot more if there weren't so many frustrated howard roark wannabes.


Although - after spending a couple hours last week designing a parking lot that was 4 times as big as the building next to it - I really wished we all weren't so dependent on our cars...  but I guess trying to change policy is far more frustrating than following it.

Jul 22, 13 7:55 am

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