Yes, images of Pruitt Igoe and the World Trade Center Towers imploding are profoundly coincidental. Poor Yamasaki! I do like his Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton, however.
Life magazine did a nice photo-spread of the Pruitt Igoe implosion when it happened in 1972, ironically the same year that the World Trade Center was nearing completion as well (which was also nicely featured in Life magazine in 1972).
I saw Koyaansqatsi a few times when it first came out in 1983. I didn't know that the implosion of Pruitt Igoe was depicted therein.
Probably the broadest blame regarding what is happening in France today is Colonialism and post-Colonialism--the European politics of pretty shitty treatment of minorities par excellence.
"Probably the broadest blame regarding what is happening in France today is Colonialism and post-Colonialism--the European politics of pretty shitty treatment of minorities par excellence."
yes- but may i say that i am particularly interested in what was the british empire? i wish there are more discussions comparing the different kinds of post-colonialism, comparative post-colonialism if you will. what interests me about the british empire was their way of getting their tendrils into every aspect of the culture they were colonizing, and learning something about the culture as well as themselves. i am most interested by the british empire's capacity (though imperfectk, of course) for self-criticism. for example, to me, brit post-colonial literature seems to be the richest expression of post-colonialism. why is that? and if there are any other literary artisitic traditions that wrestle so well with post-colonialism please let me know, as i'd be interested in checking that out too.
compare this capacity for self-criticsim to the situation in the U.S. for example, where the common attitude seems to be "we don't do empire" as donald rumsfeld put it in that brusque, 'non-elitist' manly man american way.
now the french seem to be uniquely standoffish when it comes to relationships with 'foreign/outside' culture. a friend of mine once said that he believed most french criticism of american culture was really just a psychological proejection of themselves. what they seem to describe seems to describe themsleves pretty well.
Nov 18, 05 1:04 pm ·
·
lateral, I wish I could better discuss post-colonialism with you. I'm very knowledgable of when and where all the European colonies were (via childhood stamp collecting), but I don't really know the politics (except broadly). Perhaps there is "good" post-Colonial literature also written in French.
The USA does "do empire," and a great job of brain-washing US citizens into not knowing it was/is done too. The USA still owns some of the Spanish colonies it received as a result of winning the Spanish-American War, but that's only the most literal manifestation of US colonialism.
French: re: " They didn't think that mass scale housing where good for society, but... you had to do it the right way."
yes this is true to a certain extent, and brings up the interesting politics v. art dilemma that the moderns were in the thick of - slapping accustations back and forth, you're just a aesthete, ...well yOu're just a functionalist.....
re: shoddy construction - true to , similar perhaps to soviet block housing-(though those were maybe even worse -and think it had also to do w. concrete being poured in the cold )
lateral , re: the po-co, take a look at corb's plans for algiers ( former french colony, whose war for independence in the 50's granted them independance in 62, but it was only 2-3 yrs ago that france formally acknowledged it's massacres etc...)
i 'm aware that a lot of post-colonial literature theory from frnace came from northern africa. i'd say the theory that came from there was more infamous/famous? is it also of portent that the school of thought (derrida et al) has been in decline/ discredit in europe eince the 80s?
maybe what i think is that the french are theoretical to a fault when it comes to the concept of egalitarian. and that they tend to fight theory with theory.
i have a love hate relationship with french culture.
Where the riots caused by an inherent racisim in French post-colonial culture?
Or
Are the rioters and their community partly to blame because of their inability to assimilate to French culture, thereby isolating themselves from jobs/integration?
Technologically determinate groups, not nessessarily euro-centric in the case of the native americans and the reservations, always conqure when confronted by an opposing society or idealism. Reservations are not colonies either. A colony is outside rule by foriegn Government. A reservation is a place to go gambling and get cheap ciggarettes.
Nov 21, 05 11:43 am ·
·
Reservations were brought up with regard to "empire building a different way."
reservations were brought up as a backhanded slap to the one nation in the entire history of mankind that has tried to empire build on the principles of free trade, individule rights, democracy and free thought. I guess that empire isnt worth building for some of the people here.
hey did anybody notice that short q & a with baurdrillard in the nytimes magazine last weekend?
"A reservation is a place to go gambling and get cheap ciggarettes."
ouch
"a backhanded slap to the one nation in the entire history of mankind that has tried to empire build on the principles of free trade, individule rights, democracy and free thought."
the permalink for the Byrne piece to prevent having to dig too much in his journal.
Well written arguement. Although I disagree with some of his arguements (blaming Corbu's theoretical Voisin for what got built following it is still, to me, like blaming video games for violent behavior), but it is easier to take this argument from someone who actually knows a little about architecture rather than the knee-jerk "blame the architect" attitude.
the best part about this article in the ny magazine is that the article ends right next to a full page glossy ad for luxury condominims replete with intricate digital renderings of an imaginary sea of slick modernist high rises in tribeca-soho-whatever..
Corbu and the French Riots
Yes, images of Pruitt Igoe and the World Trade Center Towers imploding are profoundly coincidental. Poor Yamasaki! I do like his Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton, however.
Life magazine did a nice photo-spread of the Pruitt Igoe implosion when it happened in 1972, ironically the same year that the World Trade Center was nearing completion as well (which was also nicely featured in Life magazine in 1972).
I saw Koyaansqatsi a few times when it first came out in 1983. I didn't know that the implosion of Pruitt Igoe was depicted therein.
Probably the broadest blame regarding what is happening in France today is Colonialism and post-Colonialism--the European politics of pretty shitty treatment of minorities par excellence.
"Probably the broadest blame regarding what is happening in France today is Colonialism and post-Colonialism--the European politics of pretty shitty treatment of minorities par excellence."
yes- but may i say that i am particularly interested in what was the british empire? i wish there are more discussions comparing the different kinds of post-colonialism, comparative post-colonialism if you will. what interests me about the british empire was their way of getting their tendrils into every aspect of the culture they were colonizing, and learning something about the culture as well as themselves. i am most interested by the british empire's capacity (though imperfectk, of course) for self-criticism. for example, to me, brit post-colonial literature seems to be the richest expression of post-colonialism. why is that? and if there are any other literary artisitic traditions that wrestle so well with post-colonialism please let me know, as i'd be interested in checking that out too.
compare this capacity for self-criticsim to the situation in the U.S. for example, where the common attitude seems to be "we don't do empire" as donald rumsfeld put it in that brusque, 'non-elitist' manly man american way.
now the french seem to be uniquely standoffish when it comes to relationships with 'foreign/outside' culture. a friend of mine once said that he believed most french criticism of american culture was really just a psychological proejection of themselves. what they seem to describe seems to describe themsleves pretty well.
lateral, I wish I could better discuss post-colonialism with you. I'm very knowledgable of when and where all the European colonies were (via childhood stamp collecting), but I don't really know the politics (except broadly). Perhaps there is "good" post-Colonial literature also written in French.
The USA does "do empire," and a great job of brain-washing US citizens into not knowing it was/is done too. The USA still owns some of the Spanish colonies it received as a result of winning the Spanish-American War, but that's only the most literal manifestation of US colonialism.
Since America was a colony, 13 to be exact, we do empire building a different way.
Yeah, we put the natives into reservations, etc.
French: re: " They didn't think that mass scale housing where good for society, but... you had to do it the right way."
yes this is true to a certain extent, and brings up the interesting politics v. art dilemma that the moderns were in the thick of - slapping accustations back and forth, you're just a aesthete, ...well yOu're just a functionalist.....
re: shoddy construction - true to , similar perhaps to soviet block housing-(though those were maybe even worse -and think it had also to do w. concrete being poured in the cold )
lateral , re: the po-co, take a look at corb's plans for algiers ( former french colony, whose war for independence in the 50's granted them independance in 62, but it was only 2-3 yrs ago that france formally acknowledged it's massacres etc...)
c-
i 'm aware that a lot of post-colonial literature theory from frnace came from northern africa. i'd say the theory that came from there was more infamous/famous? is it also of portent that the school of thought (derrida et al) has been in decline/ discredit in europe eince the 80s?
maybe what i think is that the french are theoretical to a fault when it comes to the concept of egalitarian. and that they tend to fight theory with theory.
i have a love hate relationship with french culture.
I hear you mate...
You all raise another interesting question.
Where the riots caused by an inherent racisim in French post-colonial culture?
Or
Are the rioters and their community partly to blame because of their inability to assimilate to French culture, thereby isolating themselves from jobs/integration?
Rita -
Technologically determinate groups, not nessessarily euro-centric in the case of the native americans and the reservations, always conqure when confronted by an opposing society or idealism. Reservations are not colonies either. A colony is outside rule by foriegn Government. A reservation is a place to go gambling and get cheap ciggarettes.
Reservations were brought up with regard to "empire building a different way."
reservations were brought up as a backhanded slap to the one nation in the entire history of mankind that has tried to empire build on the principles of free trade, individule rights, democracy and free thought. I guess that empire isnt worth building for some of the people here.
hey did anybody notice that short q & a with baurdrillard in the nytimes magazine last weekend?
"A reservation is a place to go gambling and get cheap ciggarettes."
ouch
"a backhanded slap to the one nation in the entire history of mankind that has tried to empire build on the principles of free trade, individule rights, democracy and free thought."
you forgot to include 'religious fanaticism'
Im not religious, nor particularily is America, contrary to what you've been told lately.
Piss on it all you want guys, it wont change for you.
use gentle cycle for delicate intimate apparel
joins the conversation in defense of Corb...
the permalink for the Byrne piece to prevent having to dig too much in his journal.
Well written arguement. Although I disagree with some of his arguements (blaming Corbu's theoretical Voisin for what got built following it is still, to me, like blaming video games for violent behavior), but it is easier to take this argument from someone who actually knows a little about architecture rather than the knee-jerk "blame the architect" attitude.
the best part about this article in the ny magazine is that the article ends right next to a full page glossy ad for luxury condominims replete with intricate digital renderings of an imaginary sea of slick modernist high rises in tribeca-soho-whatever..
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