there there: "My demand: Allow self employed individuals to refinance their homes at today's low rates. I can't refinance my house because I have been self employed for less than 2 years."

I've noticed this as well. I know more self employed people now than ever before. Some of them are actually doing pretty well financially (most are scraping by). Banks will not touch any of them. Doesn't matter how much you can put down in downpayment. 

Real estate developers are in the same boat. There's a lot of them itching to get back to building, but banks are not interested. 

This brings me to savings and loan side of the equation. These assholes switched their business model a few years back, from loan-interest to fee-based profit model. And they are not looking back.

This behavior almost seems ideological. In any case, we are all equally fucked until this changes.

Oct 7, 11 7:30 pm  · 

cashmoney yo!: "There is really only should be one demand coming out of the mouths of any & everybody who is pissed off right now (protesters & investors, Occupiers & Tea Partiers alike):  mark to market."

Yes. 100x yes. The problem with mark to market is it's such an abstract concept.  It's like E equals MC squared from hell. Analysts are calling mark to market a major contributing reason for recession. Is true!

I won't blame anyone down at occupywallstreet for not knowing what the hell that is. Financial industry is full of such dirty little tricks. Financial industry is deeply corrupt. That's a great starting point as any.


Oct 7, 11 7:57 pm  · 

As usual, Portland knows how to protest.  Good pics.

Oct 7, 11 11:53 pm  · 

Thanks for posting Donna, wow Portland really rocks.

Well, I've got a busy dance card here in SoCal this weekend, apparently lots of smaller clone events are popping up all over the place here.  I've got my sign ready to go.

Oct 8, 11 10:43 am  · 

Mark to market is a waste of time. Leave it up to S&P or Arthur Andersen?

Kucinich is calling for nationalizing the Federal Reserve. That's an excellent place to start.


Oct 8, 11 2:07 pm  · 

yeah all the commentary about not knowing what the protests are about just seem to me to be willfully ignorant. As Cornell West said in a recent TV appearance, simple corporate greed/malfeasance...

and FRac sorry but  IMHO Charles Krauthammer is a "bowel movement"....

Oct 9, 11 11:35 am  · 
eric chavkin

Parody  from my friend Ralph Mursina

Oct 9, 11 12:50 pm  · 
chatter of clouds

funny thing. on my first trip to NY, i happened to chance on the earliest protests near brooklyn bridge. mostly young people, obviously frustrated at status rampant wall street...etc. well, it starts to rain...we scurry off, along with some of the protesters, to take shelter and use the restrooms at the nearby starbucks. some of them also get themselves a coffee as they exctedly relay their philosophies of anti capitalism to each other.

Oct 9, 11 8:45 pm  · 

tammuz! I miss tammuz comments.

eric, that photo is adorable. There need to be a few more signs. Like the piglet with a sign that says "Why am I such a pig?", panda with "My dick looks like a door knob", and your friend Ralph Mursina with "I'm a douche who drives a beamer and finds in necessary to include my car in every photo I take".

Last sign needing to be kind of big.

Oct 9, 11 9:05 pm  · 

LOL, rusty! You're the best!

Oct 9, 11 9:56 pm  · 

rusty! you should check out tammuz!'s comment on this thread, hilarious!

Oct 9, 11 10:14 pm  · 

Thanks Donna! I really liked your link to Portland photos, but they were painful to see since I miss that city on daily basis.

Nam, I am well aware of awesome tammuz writing style. I've given her shit in previous threads, but only because I had a secret crush on her. I'm a sucker for women way smarter than me. 

To keep this thread on course, here is a video of BBC interviewing an average Wall Street broker. Insightful as hell, but pretty much in line with what my Wall Street 'buddies' were saying three years ago.

Oct 10, 11 12:47 am  · 

btw for anyone who clicked on the youtube video link I just posted, keep in mind that guy is lying through his teeth. You kinda have to read between the lines. The 'secondary' truth is much scarier than what he said. 

If you have savings that you are worried about, DO NOT put them in gold stocks (or any  other precious metals). 

Instead do joint your local #occupy. Great things are about to happen. I'm marching next Saturday in my local variation of the movement.

Can't wait!

Oct 10, 11 1:17 am  · 

you know, i swung by the occupydc camp yesterday. got to say, not much happening. it actually looked more like a fall carnival - i mean, there was a bouncy 'castle' for the kids. and, it was remarkably well organized - there were food distribution points, a massive stage set up, and then a bunch of nice looking tents. 

this isn't to criticize the movement (which i've spent all day defending on facebook) - it's to say that this particular setup, to someone just passing by (and there were plenty of us in that demographic), it didn't look quite like the force it probably is in nyc.



Oct 10, 11 8:40 am  · 
Token AE

Rusty- I tend to agree with you.

My perception of the 'secondary truth' is that he is trying to drive up the price of bonds so they can get out of the market- a Jim Cramer move at its finest.

I do a tiny bit of trading for fun, and my research (and my tingly engineer sense) tells me that federal and municipal bonds are going to go down.

To an extent, many bonds tend to mirror what the stocks are doing; as the stock market falls, bonds rise and vice versa. Stocks in several key industries are starting to pick up save for a few european hiccups.

I'd bet money that these scumbags are done protecting their assets with bonds, see what I (and many others see) as an upturn in the economy and are ready to get back into the real moneymaker- stocks.


Oct 10, 11 9:09 am  · 

Tick up compared to what?  They've been up, down, down, up, down, up for the last year now.  I haven't seen a clear up in a long time.

Oct 10, 11 9:20 am  · 

I thought this was a good, insightful opinion:

" They’re people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens"

Oct 10, 11 11:08 am  · 

I'm going to go buy some Cherry Garcia TODAY!!  It is possible to be a large corporate entity and still support the goals of the Occupy Movement.

Oct 10, 11 11:13 am  · 

Last week at OccupySF.  Tents were torn down the next day.  Not sure where Occupy SF is now.  I know it's a lousy pic - trying to snap it between buses while keeping 23 grad students in tow!

Oct 10, 11 11:17 am  · 

I might head down to Occupy Indianapolis today but I'm afraid it's going to be embarrassing...still, I really will be angry at myself if I don't.

Oct 10, 11 11:18 am  · 
Token AE

Tick up?

Never said that they have- but the signs are pointing towards it doing so soon.

I am keying off of changes in hiring rates and the downturn of federal/ municipal bonds. I have never been wrong using those two as reference points- it may not be a massive recovery and its timeframe may only be a month or two, but it is going to go up slightly. Just check today's news:


These banksters have connections that you and I do not and are more or less insider trading and not getting caught on a daily basis- per several former friends that are now investment bankers.

They already know what financial regulations are going to pass around the world before they happen. The guy in the video that rusty posted is using the media to try and get people to buy bonds so that the bankers can sell them at a higher price before pulling out- he was just very bad at concealing it and did a pretty piss poor job of fearmongering.

Oct 10, 11 12:07 pm  · 

Tick up?

Stock prices have zip to do with the real world. 60% or more of volume is high-frequency trading: it’s hedge funds and investment banks cycling money. It's not how much you make on a trade, it's how many trades you can make where you make anything. And those trades can be options up or down with tremendous leverage. The big bets now are on sovereign economies, apparently the last thing left to pump and dump.

All the measurements are bogus, especially the last unemployment figures that show unemployment unchanged at 9.1%. Self-employed people aren't counted. People who no longer qualify for unemployment benefits aren't counted. And in the last batch of job numbers - propaganda designed to make the public think that the situation is not as bad as it appears - half of the "hires" were Verizon employees returning to work after a strike.

Things are so bad that illegal immigrants are self-repatriating in a reverse migration. A more visual metaphor might be rats leaving a sinking ship.


Oct 10, 11 1:34 pm  · 

I do a tiny bit of trading for fun, and my research (and my tingly engineer sense) tells me that federal and municipal bonds are going to go down.

You don't even need much research to know that!

Architects, civil engineers, landscape architects and urban planners all have the basic skill set to understand future profitability of a project even if profitability is simple measured by use or enjoyment. And the government, unlike businesses, doesn't even have to make a profit!

A local example of which is that my county has spent nearly $160,000,000 building a 12-mile long parkway-slash-boulevard through the swamp and basically to nowhere to try to jump start development. It was never completed either.

Ignoring extraneous factors and costs like interest, this project has to generate roughly $5,333,333 a year in new taxes. If the average household here pays $1,000 a year in property taxes with 30% of that going to improvements, this parkway must attract 16,016 new households.

That's approximately 56,000 people! That would require an immediate 10% growth in the country population.

They would have been better off simply building a public power utility or increasing the number of people on sewage to allow for density increases. Power production and new business due to density would have surely generated more revenue than another exurban parkway.

Oct 10, 11 1:43 pm  · 

@donna: I really do hope you go to occupyindy. Colts are 0-5. There will be a bunch of people down there who just need a hug.

@token: "These banksters" haha. Forgot about that term. Love it! Other than that, you are spot on. Glad to see you take interest in this movement.

@Miles: You're such a cheeky bastard, aren't ya? But do take extra care not to compare Mexican immigrants to rats. :)

@Gregory: I thought you were based in Hotlanta. What kind of lobbying were you doing up in DC? :)

Oct 10, 11 1:46 pm  · 

I'm going, on Wednesday - taking my son and going with a few other local moms.

Oct 10, 11 4:26 pm  · 

Occupy the London Stock Exchange 
15 October

Oct 10, 11 8:01 pm  · 

Best comment of the day as seen on the internets:

"%99 of the worlds cookies are eaten by %1 of the worlds cookie monsters. Occupy Sesame Street."

Oct 10, 11 8:22 pm  · 

zarathustra, yeah October 15 seems like a big day in all kinds of places.

Oct 10, 11 8:24 pm  · 

I will be at Occupy Phoenix on the 15th.  I hope Sheriff joe and the boys don't shoot and/or arrest me! 

Oct 10, 11 9:47 pm  · 
Token AE

Pipe down with your fancy ivory tower education and logic, JJR. Do you take the American People for fools? Are you better than they? Does your "fuzzy math" put food on the table? No. Do you know what does, viewers? Protecting your assets in times of need-


*opens window*


*closes window*

Cash4Gold!!! We give cash for your gold! ...Err, damn, wrong TV spot.

*shuffles through papers on desk*

... the best way to protect your family in times of economic turmoil is to buy bonds! Evil people like me want the stock market to tank because we are evil and make money off of everything! But only stocks. I am not doing that now, this is just good advice from a friend. You should buy bonds because those are safer and not because we are trying to free up capital. Honest. 

Oct 10, 11 10:15 pm  · 

I lol'd.

That was hilarious, Token.

Oct 10, 11 11:50 pm  · 

Greek bonds are hot now. Italian bonds, too.


Oct 11, 11 12:20 am  · 

Gotta love Jon Stewart and his half-joking analysis of Fox and Occupy Wall St. (in a good way of course).  The message is quite clear.

Oct 11, 11 12:26 am  · 

Ideas for protest signs anyone??? 

-The top 1% fuck sheep

-I want to punch Mitt Romney

-Eat a dick B.O.A


Oct 11, 11 3:59 am  · 
drums please, Fab?

- my standard of living has decreased over the last 30 years :'(

<sent from my iPhone>

- nationalize everything!   what could go wrong?

- we are sheep


Oct 11, 11 9:51 am  · 
drums please, Fab?

- i skipped sailing to protest.  oh, the humanity!

Oct 11, 11 10:06 am  · 

The hipocracy from the right wing puppets is funny.  They are portraying the protests as dangerous, violent, anti-american....Meanwhile a few months ago they supported people attending tea bagger rallies with fully automatic guns.  They are just plutocrats and oligarchs that will say anything their coorporate masters tell them to say. 

Oct 11, 11 1:08 pm  · 

So 50 arrested in Boston this morning on account they were endangering the recently installed shrubbery. 

Why are shrubs against the 99%? Why?

I'm contemplating a "Landscape Architecture Sucks" sign for Saturday.

Oct 11, 11 4:44 pm  · 


Oct 11, 11 9:18 pm  · 

EKE, is this what self-proclaimed hard working, decent people (the real silent majority) like yourself do in your spare time? Mock confused transgender kids? 

Get a life.

The hippie that jumped in to defend the poor kid looked menacing as hell (like he'd stab ya through the computer screen), but said mostly reasonable things. In a creepy voice.

I want his rainbow shirt!

Oct 11, 11 9:38 pm  · 

Oh dear, EKE.  That video is both sad and mean.

And you know, fuck it.   I'm a middle class middle aged Midwest mom with a Masters degree and a business of my own* and I'M GOING to my local Occupy with others like me tomorrow. The critics can film every single off-kilter unwashed hippie they like but they can only do so while willfully ignoring the hundreds and thousands of mainstream people like me who support this movement.



*I'm a legal corporation, for godssake!

Oct 11, 11 9:42 pm  · 

"*I'm a legal corporation, for godssake!"

I heard #occupydonna happens every Wednesday night.

It's business time

Oct 11, 11 10:47 pm  · 

that shirt was fucking awesome!

Oct 11, 11 10:55 pm  · 

Why is it sad and mean, Donna? Nobody was mocking that kid or his rainbow friend. They said what they said. I made no comment about it whatsoever. I simply posted it with a smilie. My point in posting it is not to mock anyone, but to simply point out that this movement seems to me to be about alienated rage across a broad spectrum of human experience, and is ultimately pretty unfocused. I don't agree with you that my inability to discern any cogent message, apart from a diffuse rage at the wealthy and powerful, is any kind of willful ignorance at all. I've thought long and hard about this movement and it's implications. If someone were to say that this protest were about trying to eliminate crony capitalism, and government/corporate influence that is inappropriate, then I agree 100% and I'm onboard. But this movement has spawned all sorts of calls for things like Maoist statism, Communist dictatorship of the proletariat, and all sorts of uber-radical big government stuff that I simply can't agree with. So it's hard to get onboard for me, although as a bleeding-heart libertarian, I agree with much of their anger and frustration

Oct 11, 11 10:58 pm  · 

I've been bringing food to the protest site in LA, boy were they glad to see me.

All I can say is I have the up most respect for anyone who attends these rallies, I have met some really great people from all walks of life. 

Looks like allot is happening on Oct. 15th, I've got my sign all ready......

Oct 11, 11 11:09 pm  · 

Where is the LA rally that you are attending, Keith?

Oct 11, 11 11:20 pm  · 

But this movement has spawned all sorts of calls for things like Maoist statism, Communist dictatorship of the proletariat, and all sorts of uber-radical big government stuff that I simply can't agree with

And again, you can find calls for that among the hundreds of other voices just saying things need to change.  No one in Indianapolis is calling for Communism, for heaven's sake!  And the parallel is I can go around calling all Tea Partiers racist welfare queen hypocrites, but doesn't that willfully ignore the probable majority of them who are just frustrated and want things to change?  Whether we agree exactly on what that change should be isn't the point right now, the point right now is that everyone is unhappy and the elected officials we have are unresponsive to anyone who can't afford to buy them.  Media tends to make us hate one another so we'll conveniently ignore that we aren't able to do any of the buying.

And yes - making fun of a gender-confused youngster, someone who most likely has received messages all his/her life (mostly from the Right, let's be honest) that s/he is a sinner and a weirdo and unacceptable in "our" society is just mean.  It's sad because the poor kid is confused, and it's mean because some asshole with a camera is making fun of that confusion.  For heaven's sake, aren't we ALL embarrassed about certain strident, passionate positions we took in our youth?  I once thought Post Modernism was cool! 

Oct 11, 11 11:36 pm  · 

Also, here.  This is a pretty clear message.

Oct 11, 11 11:37 pm  · 

EKE, They are @ City Hall, it's really quite a sight.  They actually have tents all around the building.

Looks like Oct 15th is an international day of action, I will be attending.

Yes, there are inconsistencies, lack of focus, and even items I do not support.  But those issues are minor details and pale in comparison to the totality of the problem we as a society are confronted with at this point in time.

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” – Desmond Tutu
Oct 11, 11 11:38 pm  · 

EKE, you don't respond to my comments. Fine. You're not a fan.

Here is a video of your fellow libertarian giving a speech at #occupywallstreet. He was received more than well by other protesters. Can you get back behind that one? The point is that these protests (as a whole) are relatively ideology free. It really is meant to be a stew of opinions with a common goal: more stable future.

I personally find libertarians to be nutty, but there are good (if not great ideas) somewhere in the mix. All are welcome to the cause (yet to be defined).

Keith Carlson, you have become my hero of the month. Keep at it brother.

Yes Oct. 15th is the big one. I just hope it doesn't fizzle out after that. 

Oct 12, 11 12:28 am  · 

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