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'The Bartlett' or 'Yale', an urgent debacle in choosing an MArch.1 course

the_student_?

Recently I've been lucky to get offers from both 'The Yale School of Architecture' and 'The Bartlett', the issue being I am torn on which one to choose. The course at the Bartlett is 1 year shorter when compared to its US counterpart. Of course Yale is notoriously expensive however I was granted some financial aid, therefore it will significantly reduce the price. I see the Bartlett and giving me more freedom in exploring the work I am passionate about but I feel that YSOA really has the potential to aid in reshaping my thinking when it comes to how a population explores the built environment. What would you do if you where in my position? 

 
Mar 10, 22 7:10 pm
Non Sequitur

protip1, don't base major adult decisions on the opinions of anonymous wankers in web forums.

protip2, choose the cheapest option.

Mar 10, 22 7:32 pm  · 
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the_student_?

Thanks for the reply I really appreciate it. Of course the final decision is with me. I was just interested in the reasoning other people would give as potentially it could unearth something I had yet to properly consider.

Mar 10, 22 7:41 pm  · 
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur

The regulars on these forums (including the one who answered above) represent the bottom of the barrel of the architectural profession, so it's not really worth asking for their opinion on matters as important as your education, especially if you are good enough to be admitted at Yale or UCL.

Mar 11, 22 4:40 pm  · 
1  · 
Questions

Protip1: not to make decisions based on strangers’ opinions Protip2: give an opinion as a stranger

Mar 30, 22 1:08 pm  · 
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∑ π ∓ √ ∞

If you're "good enough" to get into Yale, or Bartlett, and we're such bottom feeding troglodytes, then pray tell, why would anyone come here looking for opinions? I'll go on to suggest that my perpetual frustration comes from the idea that most of the people applying to grad school, and then come here looking for us to make a decision for them, are fucking infants, and need to be broken from the teat. How do you not know which program is best? What are trying to do with this advanced degree, do you even know? If you did, the answer would be obvious. Stop dithering.

Apr 11, 22 6:24 pm  · 
1  · 

It dose make sense why Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur is here though. They had to make a burner account and post as a non linked user. That leads me to believe they're not very proud of their architectural accomplishments.

Apr 11, 22 6:45 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Non-Asd is DeTwan.

Apr 11, 22 6:57 pm  · 
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I went to Yale. My ex went to UCL. Go to Yale. She'd agree. 

Now that doesn't take into account anything else. Seriously consider the overall cost (incl living) for both programs. But MOST importantly, where do you want to end up geographically? You'll make more money in NYC than London (I've worked in both), paying off that debt. Do you want to be licensed in either the UK or US? It is very cost prohibitive to transfer a license between countries (I've tried). 

Mar 11, 22 5:09 pm  · 
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kjpn

the most practical thing you get out of grad school are possible employer connections and employer recognition, so think about for who/where you want to work. also, 3 years is way too long. not worth it at any school as i look back on things. 

Mar 11, 22 7:12 pm  · 
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archi_gram

Absolutely UCL Bartlett. But it really depends on your style. Yale is an extremely extremely practical school, while Bartlett is on the opposite end of the scale in terms of creativity freedom. Yale can be considered conservative with more traditional architectural education, crafting skills, social context etc. Bartlett is all about technology, imaginative and visionary expression, artistic authenticity, and individualism. But also Bartlett has like 20 different styles because of their Unit system which is really different from any schools in the US. In comparison within the US, GSD MIT GSAPP are much more progressive than Yale and Cornell. Yale is the most practical one out of the big five, so if you prefer something more attached to the reality and future job experience for a traditional architect position. If you like hand modeling, straight lines no curves, unsaturated rendering style, Yale. If you like Zaha stuff, or want to explore Houdini, Maya, Unreal, coding, robotics, Bartlett.

Mar 11, 22 8:23 pm  · 
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sabbyyuu

Hi, I have been accepted to Yale and am waiting to hear back from the Bartlett as i applied super late like on the last day on a whim. I'm a British student so that really should affect my decision, its cheaper to study at the Bartlett for me and I can get a government student loan for fees and maintenance with low interest.

HOWEVER, if I am accepted to the Bartlett alongside my other offers which span schools in London (AA,RCA) , EU and US (GSD,SCi-ARC)  (which I think is highly likely as I was accepted last year - declined as I wanted to work at my current practice for another year), I would still probs choose Yale. I was also granted significant financial aid from Yale and am currently negotiating said amount for a higher offer so the costs will probably work out the same in loans. 

Aside from the financial situation, my reasoning is firstly that I believe Yale breeds a more harmonious environment in terms of relationship between students, faculty and in turn, this leads to a more fulfilling and exploratory work output. From my first interaction as an admitted student with the YSOA faculty I have felt so welcomed and cared for, with Joyce reaching out to me and constantly checking in on me and my needs. She has also gotten me in touch with several current students who have been so nice and really informative about their experiences! In contrast, the Bartlett is super competitive, some people may thrive off this but it is a really toxic environment. There are recent accounts of people turning on their studio mates, lots of people hide their work, theres hardly room for conversation about work with colleagues.. its just not a nice situation and can breed anxiety.  A lot of my friends have studied at the Bartlett over the last 6 years or so and have experienced this and also have ptsd from it as a result.. and many of them have been the recipients of student awards etc, but have found it hard to find architectural or related work post study. Bartlett students typically go on to work at practices such as Foster and partners and Rogers, but if thats not your thing it could be hard to find your way away from that..  This is because the Bartlett is known to be more of a factory of beautiful drawings as opposed to work that is rooted in spatial principles, theory and actual architectural design. This is why these students go onto work at the more corporate firms that value extreme output. 

Representation and visualisation is highly important and although the Bartlett is known for harnessing this in their students, I believe Yale teaches you to do it too - true orthographic representation is taught from Core I, and from what I've seen in current Yale student work they are highly expressive of lineweights and the attention to deal is also prominent. Additionally, there are modules which allow you explore your own drawing language so its really up to you to explore the kind of drawing you want to do and softwares you want to pick up.. I plan on engaging with animation and image making so want to explore more cinema3d and blender softwares whilst at Yale.. I am certain there is support for this too. 

My feeling is that Yale would allow you to design your own course more than the  Bartlett, which is organised by a unit system. Each unit is led by two professors and has a key focus/pedagogy. This could be an interesting way to explore architecture, and really cause you to focus on developing your own thesis and language immediately. However, personally I'd prefer a more broad masters experience to start off with, exploring a plethora of ideas, pedagogies and learning under several professors. I am not interested in being shuttled into one type of focus. 

I mean it depends also if you want to live in London as opposed to New Haven... two extremes... I will absolutely miss London, like its hurting my heart to leave this city haha.. but NYC isnt far from NH or that is what I keep telling myself!

Let me know what you think and I wouldn't mind connecting with you outside the forum as we are both in similiar positions! :) 

Mar 30, 22 6:57 am  · 
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fizh

hi sabbyyuu! thank you for sharing your insight about yale. I'm also heavily inclined to yale but have difficulty with tuition even with the current scholarship. I just sent them an email ystd to see if yale could provide a higher amount. guess they won't reply until next week. May I know how much more in the end you successfully got ?

Apr 9, 22 12:48 am  · 
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justavisual

Go where you have a better chance (aka visa) to work after.

Mar 30, 22 12:48 pm  · 
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monosierra

A big question is where you'd like to work afterwards - the US or the UK? Your student visa will segue into some form of work authorization right after graduation. Working in say, LA, after Bartlett is not as easy as working in London.

Mar 30, 22 2:52 pm  · 
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sabbyyuu

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY...

Mar 31, 22 5:23 am  · 
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HeptagonAgency

Wow. Had a good look through the page and I'm surprised to find so many negative experiences from Bartlett. Never knew the culture within the school until now... Seems quite atrocious how student welfare is handled.

Mar 31, 22 8:55 am  · 
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sabbyyuu

​yeah its super sad... i had a similar experience at another London university during my BArch, by an a professor who was ex-Bartlett, the PTSD is strong... really keen to avoid this experience during my masters!

Mar 31, 22 11:31 am  · 
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Volunteer

What's an "urgent debacle"?

Mar 31, 22 6:51 am  · 
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bbart

Hi if you are joining Bartlett

This is the Facebook group: 

https://www.facebook.com/group...

This is the Discord chat:

https://discord.com/invite/P3z...

(These groups are run by current students only, so please don't spam)

Apr 12, 22 1:28 am  · 
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