How is it...

atelier nobody

...that people think they can prepare adequate CDs for a major renovation without even looking at the record drawings/"as-builts" for the building? New recessed lights in an existing gyp. bd. ceiling with NO details...REALLY?!?!?

Nov 26, 19 10:06 pm

It depends on the type of recessed lights I suppose, but if they're fairly run-of-the-mill lights that can use a remodeling housing then I wouldn't think this would need any details - any electrician can do that.  If the designer cares about accurately laying out the lighting then locating the structure would be helpful, but I wouldn't necessarily trust record drawings for that anyway.

Nov 26, 19 10:18 pm
Happy Anarchy

I don't trust as-builts anyway.  See it to believe it.

Nov 26, 19 11:44 pm

I agree with don't trust record drawings and definitely don't base any CD's on them.  Details of recessed lighting in an existing gyp. bd. ceiling shouldn't be necessary unless there's something unusual about this ceiling.  

Nov 26, 19 11:49 pm

Like framing?

Non Sequitur

I was thinking sharks, but framing can be a bitch too.


Framing is unusual?

Locating the framing would be a good thing to do.  But not from record drawings.  Detailing the framing would not be a good use of time, in my opinion, unless it's Very Special framing.

Ever notice that in a renovation there is framing everywhere you want to put a recessed light?


Sure, that's why you need to locate it - to figure out a viable layout and do an RCP or some other sort of location directions. But that doesn't usually require any details.

Location is a minor detail.


Ok maybe we have a different understanding of "detail". I don't consider an RCP or spacing diagram to be a detail. Your definition of "detail" might include plans and diagrams.


A set of instructions as to where the lights are to be located which takes into account the existing conditions is important. How to go about that is something that will likely change from project to project. That being said anyone who redraws the recessed can detail from the manufacturer and adds a couple of lines to indicate the ceiling is wasting everyone's time unless it's a very special ceiling.


Simple....just remove existing ceiling gyp board....then design new lighting layout.

Nov 27, 19 2:23 am

They aren't called as-builts anyways. 

Nov 27, 19 10:03 am

They are if you want to get into trouble with your friendly neighborhood lawyer.


^ pedantic

Nov 27, 19 10:03 am
Wood Guy



Wait, a detail for a recessed light fixture??? 

Nov 27, 19 10:33 am
Happy Anarchy

fire proofing


the detail would look like something like "install per manufacturer's recommendation"

Nov 27, 19 10:53 am

Yes, exactly. It reminds me of a firm I worked in that used to do elaborate section details of the extruded aluminum marker ledges of manufactured marker boards. They were very pretty details with lots of curves.  But... those ledges come attached to the board, from the manufacturer. They're not being extruded in the field by the contractor like gutters. The only possible thing anybody could need to know about them in order to install them correctly might be their approximate depth, and the manufacturer's recommended fasteners for the applicable substrate. When I questioned why they did these details the explanation is it's because there is a space for them on the firm's sheet template - which in turn was because 50 years before, when those templates were devised, their projects had field-constructed slate chalkboards with wooden chalk ledges.


maybe more complicated if there's a fire rating involved, but even then.....

Nov 27, 19 12:47 pm

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