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Soon I'll be able to begin taking the ARE exams

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RickB-Astoria

Given recent legislative changes in the state of Washington, I'll be able to begin taking the ARE divisions. Changes that will only require enrollment in the AXP program which I have been enrolled in.

Wish me best of luck on the ARE exam divisions and the NCBDC certification exam which I'll be working on concurrently.

There will be a form that I will have to fill out with the Washington state DOL to begin so I would have my "authorization to test" with NCARB and begin this process. So, hopefully, 2020 will be the beginning of the exam process. I will however, have to meet all other requirements for licensing to obtain the architect license.

 


 
Oct 29, 19 4:11 pm

1 Featured Comment

All 17 Comments

tduds

Wish me best of luck on the ARE exam divisions

Don't tell me what to do.

Kidding - godspeed you, old Balkins.

Oct 29, 19 4:48 pm
RickB-Astoria

Hahaha..... yeah. Still plenty of work ahead to get these behind me. At least it would get one major milestone of the architectural licensure path done and I think passing the ARE divisions would help employability with an architect/architectural firm. As is always true, no guarantee I get a job with an architect/firm but it would help.

ArchNyen

RickB-Astoria. are you still unemployed?

ArchNyen

with your reputation, creditably, skills, knowledge of the subject, and many acronyms behind your name, why would any firm not hire you on the spot of an interview?!

RickB-Astoria

My point is that there is no guarantee of getting a job at any employer. It never is. There is no such thing... ok... there is only one exception... which is working for your own business/company. That is the only guaranteed employment. If it involves other people making a decision whether to hire you or not then by definition employment is not guaranteed. 

Why would a firm not hire me depends on how each particular firm reviews resumes. It isn't necessarily having acronyms behind ones own name. Does the firm recognize the acronym? If not... then that acronym means little to nothing. How will a firm evaluate someone without an architecture degree? How would they evaluate that person if the person passes all the ARE division. I would bet all architects and firms in the U.S. knows and recognizes the ARE. How will it rank? Would it rank higher than someone with an architecture degree but not passed any of the exams of the ARE? I think that is a variable.

 I'm currently working on some software projects so there really not enough hours to get the projects through by the deadlines and milestone dates and working for anyone half-time or full-time. It's way far too complex for a single person to do by oneself at a part-time level.

tduds

Something about missing 100% of the shots you don't take...

atelier nobody

Good on ya.

A bit of very unorthodox (not to mention unsolicited) advice: Take all sections immediately, 1 week apart, with minimal study. You'll probably surprise yourself and pass at least a couple. The ones you fail will be better than any exam prep you could buy, and you'll almost certainly pass the 2nd time.

Oct 29, 19 5:05 pm
RickB-Astoria

It will depend cash on hand. The worst thing I could do is fail divisions and have to spend money on retaking it. It wouldn't be the end of the world.

atelier nobody . I like your style and strategy. I too am about to start the ARE. I have about five years of architectural experience. I think there is alot of value in this strategy long-term. Dive in and see how I do initially, prior to much dedicated study time.

Featured Comment
kjdt

These resolution-making threads never work out for you.  Remember this one from 2017?

Beginning about October or so, I'll begin working on the NCBDC
Certification Candidate application work which will be gathering
documents and other documentation required for beginning the application
filing. The goal is to begin taking the exams beginning January 2019
but may start a little sooner than that as the goal is to complete it in
2019.

Are you on track to finish that in 2019?  Did you start?  Did you even ever gather the documents and begin the application?

Just stop talking and do it. You don't need luck from us. You need action from you.

Oct 29, 19 5:19 pm
kjdt

Also this one. Stop talking. Just do it:

Obtain Oregon CCB License. (Residential General Contractor - level). I may potentially obtain also the (Residential Developer license) at some point if I got into the developer side of things but at a later time. RGC license.... work on to complete or substantially completed by DECEMBER 2019 to DECEMBER 2020. 

Almosthip7

less crying and more dying.......

RickB-Astoria

kjdt, I did complete one of the goals which includes finishing the education/degree at the college that needed to get finished. I have started on the NCBDC certification application form and got some letters of references/documents for the application. However, I haven't sent in the application packet.


RickB-Astoria

I am likely running behind on getting the CPBD certification before December 31, 2019. I am currently working on the 3d modeling designs of virtual buildings for a 3d virtual environment (virtual city) for a large complex online platform that is being developed which I am also doing that, video game development and getting to the point of crowdfunding for cash flow / capitalization. There is some crucial deadlines for one of the video games to be made and completed by June 2020 and a working alpha version of the online platform completed by June/July of 2020. There is other progress and demonstration of progress to be ready by December 2019, January 2020, and regular progress throughout. Those are literally full-time to overtime level. There's a lot going on.

RickB-Astoria

During the past month or so.... I've been busy with stuff relating to this: ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiltfive/holographic-tabletop-gaming/description ) and projects I am working on.... their deadlines for some of it is correlating to estimated delivery date and some other progress milestones are much sooner than that. There is a huge amount of work that has to get done.

kjdt

I'm willing to bet that "tilt five" never delivers and is dissolved within 2 years.  Why let yourself get sucked up in those same people's latest scam?  Don't you ever learn from the past?

RickB-Astoria

I know what caused the problems in the first time and a large part of it has nothing to do with the individuals in Tilt Five specifically. The VCs that were involved that caused the problems in the first place are not involved. I have had access to information regarding that. The big project being worked on isn't dependent or limited to Tilt Five's augmented reality platform while initially it maybe the first targeted system but strategically an online platform will need a larger user base in the long run but before servers are in place, I wouldn't want to be directly running a server through the same computer and internet connection that I am developing from. A smaller CCU is fine to begin but the scale must go up with server capacities that are used for MMOs.

kjdt

There's a thread from 4 years ago in which somebody specifically warned you that the previous one of these projects was a kickstarter scam - and you responded "we'll see" and blithely continued wasting time and money on it for another year or two, until they closed down the crowdfunding, declared bankruptcy, and as I understand it then formed another company to buy back the previous company's assets for fractions of pennies on the dollar at auction. This new project sure reads like a scam too. Up to you, but you know the saying... "fool me once..."  Sucks if you lose another couple years of time.  Did you get your money back on the last one?

RickB-Astoria

That somebody only had speculation. Just mere bad experience by some other kickstarter campaign and is jaded by that experience. As for my main project, I'd make more than a magnitude of an order than I spent on backing such KS campaigns.

RickB-Astoria

In those same "couple of years" in the future, I'll be working on these exams while I am working on these software & video game projects, and getting crowdfunding with cash coming in.

RickB-Astoria

So where do you think I'd be getting the cash for taking these exams? It's not like I'm some fucking leprechaun shitting out pots of gold and pissing out rainbows.

JBeaumont

Balkins I was the one who warned you last time about the CastAR kickstarter being a scam.  It wasn't just speculation, it was based on the histories of the founders. Tanking kickstarters is a business model for some.  As for where to get the cash to take exams: first don't invest any more money on scams. Yes it is a scam.

Second get a job.  When I took ARE 2.0 it had 9 versions and cost $2040, and I got a side job for a short time to scrounge up the money to pay for it so I could take them all in quick succession.  The exam fees have dropped by almost 40% since then, it's only $1260, Oregon minimum wage is $11.25, and unemployment is at a record low. You should be able to get hired in any low/no skill local job and put up with it long enough to get the money to take the exams almost immediately.  Even in a 20-hour a week part-time job you could fund the exams in under 2 months. Don't stay holed up in your house making video game parts. You've been down that route lots of times before, it's been your perpetual excuse for not doing anything else for years now, even decades, but it never pans out - if it did you wouldn't still be on here writing "where do you think I'd be getting the cash for taking these exams?"

Third: why don't you just crowdfund the exam fees?  I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd put a little $$ toward the first exam at least, just in the hopes that you'd go study and learn a few things.

Oct 30, 19 10:14 am
RickB-Astoria

JBeaumont, based on what history that you have no facts on. You mentioned histories but you don't say what specific histories with evidence that can be fact checked. You don't use Patreon, Kickstarter, or Indiegogo to crowdfund for ARE exams. You can't exactly campaign on those platforms for such purpose. It would be somewhat violating the guidelines of those platforms. You may do that via GoFundMe. I am not sure who all would pay for such a thing (aside from you) but I could do that independent of any other projects or crowdfunding for such projects. 

I didn't approach that because there is no point in crowdfunding for ARE until you have your authorization to test or otherwise eligibility. I would be more then willing to campaign for that in December 2019 / January 2020. Crowdfunding on Patreon would provide some amount of money via monthly payments from supporters to project creators which can be a video game or other creative works within the guidelines of Patreon. Therefore, I am working on a project right now, that would begin crowdfunding on in a matter of weeks from now. Namely, there is a certain degree of preliminary work that needs to be done in order to get the crowdfunding going. In a way, I would be working off the various connections that I have from supporters of TiltFive project, and others abroad in the whole scene. There's a pool of connection to raise quite a few dollars a month. I don't predict how much because these things are impossible to know with certainty. 

Earnings from crowdfunding for software projects is my earnings. The main project I am working on is not a video game in and of itself. The missing info is because I am not releasing that info until crowdfunding begins. It is not by its intent, design, or purpose.... parts of a video game other than it can function to launch games or apps. It's more than just designing 3d models but its a major part of the work involved. Its not just making static models of buildings. Seriously, there is more to it. You're an architect, use your damn imagination a little and you might begin to understand the concept behind the project I am working on. If not a video game, what do you think I would be designing "virtual buildings" and a so forth?

RickB-Astoria

Just so you know, I never heard of people ever crowdfunding for taking the ARE exams or similar exams for other licensed professions or for certifications. Just saying. Without something similarly done, I haven't really been thinking about such a means for funding the cost of exams or whatever.

kjdt

People crowdfund for things like exam fees, certification courses, expenses to go to conferences, and other things like that all the time. One of my firm's PMs raised over 5k that way just to go to Renaissance Weekend (expensive New Year's eve party mostly for has-been politicians) because the firm wouldn't cover it as work-related - go figure. The crowd will pay for all sorts of things in order to get some vicarious sense of accomplishment or status, so playing on the whole "I always wanted to be an architect but..." trope seems likely to succeed. Whether it would work in your individual case is hard to know. You seem to have some fans here of the sort who always root for the underdog, but you've also got those of us who have watched a truly unbelievable trail of excuses over the years who won't think you're a good bet to even get around to doing the paperwork to become eligible for the exams, let alone ever take one.

I'd pitch in a few bones for Rick. Though I would probably condition it to be only for exams that he passes, and only after completing all 6 of them. If he could get a couple dozen of us to chip in $10 for each exam he passes, he could get the whole thing paid for plus a little extra. $60 isn't too much for me to gift him as a reward/incentive. 

Really though, he should just find a job at an architecture firm that will reimburse him for the exams. In order to get licensed in WA he'll need to complete AXP and work for an architect anyway. Might as well get started now.

RickB-Astoria

kjdt, I'm going to put a stop on circular arguments regarding software project/Tilt Five. I can make some cash along the way whether or not Tilt Five is successful. Funds from my own crowdfunding for software projects which is planned to begin in December via Patreon can be used with some room for discretion of personal uses while I have to deliver on my own part. Therefore, I don't have time to waste a lot on back and forth arguments. Having said that, a separate crowdfunding via an appropriate platform or method for the ARE exams can be done and conducted. 

Personally, I have been apprehensive of using "GoFundMe" as much as platforms like Kickstarter or Indiegogo or Patreon in that the latter platforms are based on crowdfunding a project (of creative work of some kind) and a reward of some fashion to the backers [REWARD-BASED CROWDFUNDING] while GoFundMe is not. GoFundMe is a "non-incentive based crowdfunding" platform in which backers are not rewarded a reward, equity, etc. Generally, I haven't been one to pursue crowdfunding to fund my own personal causes but more for business purposes where backers are rewarded and so in a sense, they are kind of pre-ordering for some kind of good... be it physical or virtual. 

I DO agree that this has to be more action and less talk.

flatroof

Good luck, the profession is cruel to non trad people born without a silver spoon like us, but I hope you make it. 

Oct 30, 19 1:52 pm
RickB-Astoria

Everyday_Architect wrote:

"I'd pitch in a few bones for Rick. Though I would probably condition it to be only for exams that he passes, and only after completing all 6 of them. If he could get a couple dozen of us to chip in $10 for each exam he passes, he could get the whole thing paid for plus a little extra. $60 isn't too much for me to gift him as a reward/incentive..."

I did read the whole reply but definitely the idea or concept above sounds good. I would consider after passing the exams to forward the help to exam candidates in a similar manner. Again, I think the idea of a reward/incentive is good. We might not be able to crowdfund to support every candidate for exams but it would be a good idea for the architecture community to help out in a similar fashion. 

I know some firms do something like this for their employees. 


Nov 2, 19 6:38 pm
Non Sequitur

not sure how I missed this one. So Ricky can now maybe write the exams? Cool beans, and it’ll be interesting to see the follow through.  


Hopefully there are no questions about kangaroos or theatre space fire egress. 

Nov 2, 19 8:55 pm
eeayeeayo

The "follow through" is highly likely to be excuses. The excuses for not completing the video game or city or whatever it is will be "too busy with my building design business and studying for ARE" and the reason for not following through on even getting the ok to take the ARE, let alone take it and pass it, will be "too busy with my video game project".

RickB-Astoria

Non Sequitur, I don't think I said I get to "write" the exams. At least I hope not. I would have to fill out a form or whatever with the Washington state DOL for the formalities of process for authorization to test / NCARB ARE Eligibility stuff. In any case, I'm fine with that. Passing the ARE divisions alone will not make me a licensed architect but it would be one mile stone out of the way UPON passing those divisions but that IS my responsibility to study, DO (take the exams), and pass the ARE exams (divisions). 

After that, to become licensed will require working for an architect/firm. Not doing that will simply delay licensure. That would be entirely on me and no one else to blame if I don't even apply or attempt to get a job. I may delay it until after the exams but after that, there wouldn't necessarily be a good excuse. Taking the ARE doesn't matter if I am working for an architect or not.

If I want licensure, I have to get that AXP/Architectural experience completed. 

RickB-Astoria

Since I am not making up this legislative change... http://aiawa.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Practice-Act-amendments-summary.pdf

This will allow me to move forward with the exams even when not actively employed with an architect but this is only one step of the process and an important one. I would reason that passing the exams would make me more competitive for employment with firms even in Oregon.

RickB-Astoria

"Just stop talking and do it. You don't need luck from us. You need action from you." I agree with the main point of kjdt. Get 'er done. Whether employed at an architect office or not. Waiting on the link to be sent to me from the Licensing manager as they are doing something in updating stuff or whatever. This would be something I'm patiently waiting on so everything is in check. I did talk to the Licensing manager Tuesday of this past week.

eeayeeayo

Balkins NS is Canadian and the phrase "write the exams" there means the same thing as "take the exams" means in the US. Nobody cares about what forms you have to fill out or or the particulars of Washington statutes. If you're really committed to less talk and more action, then challenge yourself to stop talking here until it's to announce that you've passed the exam.

Non Sequitur

^Thanks for clearing that up... was a little confused. So Balkinator, to summarize, you may be able to "take" your exams but you still need to start & complete the intern experience portion. Seems a little backwards to first pass the exams in order to score a job in an office.

RickB-Astoria

N.S., I only need to be enrolled in AXP which I have been for some years now. The new law allows concurrency of education/experience and the exam. It may seem that way but even lawyers will often get their bar exam done to improve scoring a job. My point isn't that I couldn't begin AXP any time already. Getting jobs after passing those exams WOULD make getting jobs easier in a competitive environment where not having a bachelors or masters degree in architecture (NAAB accredited or not) would normally put a person lower on the ranking of candidates to interview. Passing those exams would likely bump the ranking. You know there is some sort of ranking mechanism when it comes to sorting the top ___ of candidates to whom to interview and an effective cutoff. Those that fall below the cutoff simply gets the rejection letter or nothing at all for a response.

RickB-Astoria

To rephrase, I would be able to begin taking the ARE exams. I do have to complete AXP and any additional experience in lieu of an architecture degree BEFORE licensure but not before taking the ARE. I just have to be enrolled in AXP which I am and have been for some years now. I know it is a little unconventional to do it this way. Getting a job at a firm in Oregon without an arch degree is close to impossible unless you have something to neutralize that "handicap"... otherwise you are there as a receptionist or some other position in a firm that has nothing to do with architecture itself which does not count for shit.

RickB-Astoria

"If you're really committed to less talk and more action, then challenge yourself to stop talking here until it's to announce that you've passed the exam." Everybody else yacks too. Sometimes the wait on some bureaucratic process can seem awfully long when there is some anxiousness. It helps with the waiting to let time pass some. Anyway, the essential point isn't talking but the following through by actually doing what is said.

Chad Miller

I thought the new AXP allowed some exams, not all to be taken while fulfilling your internship hours. I could be wrong though.

Chad Miller

Nope, I was wrong. Although WA dose say:


"HB 1148 removes the three years’ practical work experience requirement from the trainingprogram and requires instead “practical architecture work experience in a structured training
program approved by the Board.” The Board would define what this looks like in Washington. "


Sneaky

Bench

Ive been working almost 5 years out of school and just taking my first exams now .... there is no way i'd be up for taking them without having a lot of work experience under my belt prior.

Non Sequitur

^Bench If only you had access to a simpler, easier path via the Canadian exams... 8-) Side note, today is the annual day on which tests 1 and 2 are taken.

Bench

^ I'm surprisingly quite happy with how the US ones are set up. More material from the sound of it, but taken at one's own pace - meaning I can fit it into my life in a way that works for me, with more flexibility. If I had to take 4 exams in two days, knowing that failure anywhere meant waiting another year... man that pressure is big.

Non Sequitur

It's not that bad but I have 2 friends writing theirs today. They have been studying and putting off evening drinks and whatnot for months now.

Chad Miller

So NS, how are the tests given in 'THE GREAT WHITE NORTH'?  aka America's hat.  

Non Sequitur

It’s a nice hat.

Non Sequitur

Canadian exams are giver on a year over 2 days. There are 4 tests and you get 3hr to complete. There are no examples or prep guides. If it’s your first time, like fight club, you must take all 4 tests. If you need to retake one, then you can redo only the ones you failed but you must wait until the next year. I believe failing on test 3 times requires the redo of all 4. Tests are scantron and short/long answer. Very little design is involved.

Bench

Forgot to mention - its been a stream of posts from friends on FB for the last few months on exam prep. Hoping most of them get it done!

Chad Miller

Non Sequitur - interesting. Sounds like a mid 90's version of how us yanks did it. Oh and we appreciate Canada being out hat, keeps our ears warm.

I think the Canadian term is toque, eh?

Non Sequitur

Everything is either a tuque (because I'm french-canadian, deal with it) or a casque (ie. hockey helmet). Sometimes you need to wear both.

Chad Miller

Toque? You mean beanie.

Non Sequitur

do beanie have pompoms?

Tuque de trappeur Canada Mélange de gris

RickB-Astoria

Chad Miller, there is still the requirement of AXP which is what is being referred to by structured training program and that AXP is part of the overall architectural work experience. The change doesn't remove the requirement of AXP and the overall required number of years of qualifying experience under an architect. That is still required other than it has been reverted back to 8 years instead of 9. What is changed is that I don't have to complete the experience requirements PRIOR to taking the exam. I can essentially begin the exam upon enrollment in AXP which can begin with only a high school diploma or equivalent. 

So yes, I can basically do the exams first and then the experience. I just have to be enrolled in AXP which doesn't require employment with an architect but it usually is a good idea for most people. They removed the linearity but it is still necessary to complete all requirements in order to get the architect license. This is just one part of it.

Aluminate

If you still intend to eventually get an NAAB degree and get licensed in Oregon you may want to check with Oregon's board to see if testing early will be a problem for reciprocity. If they tell you it won't be, make sure to get that in writing. Oregon's board has a history of rejecting test results and IDP records of people who applied for reciprocity with NCARB records showing that they started their testing or IDP "early" or "out of order" in states that allowed it.

That is some petty BS right there. Like the order in which you complete a degree, AXP, and the ARE would somehow invalidate your completion of any of those things.

Aluminate

This is the same state who tried to fine a guy for "practicing engineering without a license" because he calculated traffic light intervals as part of his fight against a traffic ticket (but he sued the state and won.)

atelier nobody

Not sure about other states, but here in CA, they changed the experience requirement so that part-time (or even full-time) work while in school only counts for 6 months, regardless of how much you actually worked. We have a few schools trying the "integrated path to licensure" - I wonder what's going to happen to those folks?

Aluminate

Different states have different rules about that. For instance NY doesn't count experience worked while one is a student half-time or more, and they pull that card in rejecting some reciprocity applications. There's this general belief that if you have an NAAB degree, did IDP, and passed the ARE, and you get licensed in one state then you're good-to-go with reciprocity in all the others.  It's true for a lot of states. But some states will still fall back on their own state-specific rules about the orders of things, and allowable training settings and such, to reject people.

RickB-Astoria

Aluminate, I will take that into consideration. I would be doing reciprocity after NCARB Certification process is completed. At least that's the current plan but I have to adapt with the rules as they change. Good point but the same board members today may not be there in say.... 10 years. I think by that time, they will relax some on this issue. I will be looking for written communication on this anyway.

RickB-Astoria

online form submitted through the computerized online form process. Funny thing, it (the computer) wanted me to submit the Architectural Law Review which was surprising and maybe not intended but oh well.... that's comedy for ya.

lol, I remember that signal light timing thing when it was in the news.

RickB-Astoria

Actually, in that case, it was the engineers board. Separate board from OBAE when it comes to Oregon but I get where Aluminate is coming from. That was a situation where I think the board gone overboard a little bit but also the person in the case wasn't exactly perfect and spotless in his wording. Oh well.

RickB-Astoria

Aluminate, what I do know is AXP portfolio won't be counted with Oregon. This is not the same as NCARB Certificate Portfolio. I will have to earn the AXP hours via regular methods. It is something I am aware of.

shellarchitect

Video game design, architecture, kangaroo expert, doesn't matter the path.  Just pick one and do it without distractions

Nov 3, 19 12:56 pm
SneakyPete

I think someone wiser than me said something about the journey being at least as important as the destination. I wish you success on the exams. The negativity and dragging going on above isn't necessary due to its redundancy. Everything that's been said has been said before.

Nov 4, 19 11:48 am
RickB-Astoria

Thanks SneakyPete. I'm taking the opportunity to move forward on some part of the overall architectural licensing path. I am not suggesting or promoting that anyone or everyone should start the exams immediately out of high school. I like the freedom of choice that this provides me for my own situation but I recognize that not everyone will have the same background. People should take the ARE exam divisions when they are ready for it not before hand but they can get there.

tintt

When people wonder why those exams are so hard and why reading comprehension is important to be able to pass them, this is why. 

Nov 6, 19 3:40 pm

I'm finding it hard to understand the level of hatred from some toward Rick in this thread. The only explanation I can think of is that people are worried Rick might actually pass the exams. It's been easy to criticize Rick as a know nothing, and they're afraid of what it means if he actually does know enough to pass the exams.

I wish you the best of luck on the exams Rick. 

Nov 7, 19 8:04 pm
Non Sequitur

My job is safe from a Ricky take over but I’m all in favour for removing some of the hurdles in the path to license.

jla-x

My advice is take one step at least every day until you reach the goal...even if it’s as small as printing the paperwork...it took me years and years to train myself to do this...I was always a person obsessing over the big picture...overwhelming amount of steps...once you find that discipline you will see things change quickly and after months will be making good progress 



Nov 8, 19 11:59 am
RickB-Astoria

Yep. good advice and good for others as well. Breaking a large goal into manageable steps. 

In my case, I already submitted the "paper work" via the online form system. It's just the standard stop and go stuff. There is not much I can do at the moment aside from going over the ARE material and referenced materials. There are other stuff I am working on concurrently. I will have to get back to the progress of the NCBDC certification stuff which should not be too much to get setup and going. I know... a little procrastination on my part. No excuse. 

RickB-Astoria

Aside from some posts getting nuked in the process, I will still state a thank you to Miles and E_A for the positive comments and defense. Thank you, again. I know it got nuked in the process but will still acknowledge. There is a line between stating concerns and legitimate criticism and just downright being a jerk. For one, I do not try to hold on to grudges. There is too much crap in life to have that burden.


Nov 8, 19 4:29 pm
RickB-Astoria

It's now official.... ARE Eligibility has been established. Now, the next steps are purchasing "Sear Credit" and scheduling for the exam divisions and all that fun stuff.

Nov 12, 19 6:35 pm
RickB-Astoria

Ok, typo... that's "Seat Credit".

RickB-Astoria

If I decide to go to architecture school in the future (after passing the ARE exams and probably also the AIBD's CPBD certification program), I will have something to tell the schmucks at the arch schools that gripe about my gpa or no SAT scores or whatever.  

Nov 14, 19 4:39 pm
Bench

Maybe stop writing endlessly about what you might do/decide/start/finish...

joseffischer

Ok, I'll bite, how do you get into college with no SAT scores?

tduds

A lot of schools are dropping the SAT requirement.

RickB-Astoria

joseffischer, when you already have a degree, one should not have to take SATs and all. My point being is if they try to reject someone who passes the ARE from admissions, it would be like rejecting a person who passes the BAR exam from being admitted into law school. The ARE is by far a much more stronger metric of someone's aptitude for architecture then the SAT.

Anyway, passed Washington state DOL's architectural law review. 

kjdt

The ARE isn't an academic assessment test. There's no reason to think that any university will accept it in lieu of the SAT.

You already went through this refusal to take the SAT once - and it cost you 3 years in time and tens of thousands in student loans, and yet you weren't able to get into the architecture department because of the combination of low GPA and no SAT.  Why do you insist on continuing to resist that one easy threshold?

If you really want to go to an undergrad architecture program just take the SAT already!  The SAT costs $46.50, and there are at least 7 community colleges in Washington that offer it, so you wouldn't have to take it at a high school.  The costs of travel, test fees, a hotel for a night, etc. all add up to much less than the costs to take the ARE - and you can't fail the SAT.

Formerlyunknown

That law school analogy doesn't work in your favor. There are 4 states that don't require law school in order to take the bar. People who pass the bar in those states without having attended law school and then later choose to go to law school are still required to take the LSAT in order to apply.

RickB-Astoria

Sure, I could but I think my alma mater in Eugene, Oregon has since dropped requiring the SATs for their architecture degree unless you have below a certain number of credits. [ https://archenvironment.uoregon.edu/architecture/apply/barch ] I haven't applied in awhile.

Even, PSU wouldn't need it from what I recall and wouldn't matter anyway. I have these two institutions as options for a degree if I want to do so. The 4 year B.S./B.A. in architecture is all that I would need for NCARB Certificate without having to do the NCARB Certificate Portfolio thinggy... and just record more AXP hours. 

RickB-Astoria

LSAT is not SAT. SAT stands for Scholastic Aptitude Test. LSAT stands for Law School Admissions Test.... in which case, that would be more appropriate. They could have had an ArchSAT (Architecture School Admissions Test) which would be a better system, in my opinion. I would take that if I had to.

RickB-Astoria

FYI: The University of Oregon did not require me to submit SAT scores for admissions to the university... which the SAT would be more appropriate with. It was the Architecture department requiring that at the time.

RickB-Astoria

You can draw parallels with the LSAT to SAT. True. Much of law is a matter of reading comprehension and stuff like that. It can be said that it is a profession of word art or word crafting. LSAT and GRE are somewhat congruent and I wouldn't hesitate to take the GRE if I had to.

kjdt

I know. The architecture department at the University of Oregon requires the SAT for transfers whose GPA's are low, because they're a limited-admission department. And you spent a long time arguing with them, and it didn't work, so you couldn't get into the department, so you spent a lot of money and 3 potential earning years whiling away your time studying something else, but weren't able to graduate. So why don't you learn from that and just take the SAT? I don't understand what the huge objection is. Are you worried you won't do well? Is it worth the $1200 to take the ARE and then finding out that the universities don't care and still want the SAT?

The content of the GRE general exam is nearly identical to the SAT - but the scoring is more stringent.  If you're ok with taking the GRE you should be more than ok about taking the SAT, because it's easier to get a higher score on the same exact types of verbal and math questions.

RickB-Astoria

kjdt, 

TO BE CLEAR: At this point in time, I am not objecting to taking the SAT in the future (as in going forward) if I need to or when I am getting closer to the applying to go to any of the arch programs. It would be something I would do closer to the time of actually applying. The investment in the ARE is for issues like licensure which once taken and passed is effectively good for life (more or less).

RickB-Astoria

In say 5 years.... will I need to have SAT scores submitted. What school will I apply to? That part is still up in the air. It would become more definitive over the next 3 or so years.

Just in case it was overlooked or missed, yeah.... I did pass the Architect Law Review exam with DOL in Washington so the SAT stuff should be almost as comically simple as that exam. (Maybe why I'm criticized for not doing it).


kjdt

Rick it wasn't missed. It's just that the Washington Architect Law Review isn't really a test. Nobody fails. Its intent is to create a record of proof that applicants have seen and understood the laws, so that architects who practice in the state can never claim in the future that they were unaware of or misunderstood those laws. In other words it's CYA on the state's part. 

RickB-Astoria

True... so true. Not a biggy. Just making note that is done along with the ARE eligibility being established. The real test is the ARE. I get ya being perplexed to all f--- that I would be willing to take the ARE and the appearance of being hesitant to take the SAT. Anyway, go figure.

RickB-Astoria

If I go to PSU, the SAT wouldn't be required and taking the SAT might be an unnecessary expenditure. No need to jump the gun to taking an exam that may not be necessary. I have to decide the school. The ARE would be necessary for licensure so its expense is justified for the long term goal.

curtkram

so did you pass?


Nov 16, 19 9:55 pm
RickB-Astoria

The Architect Law Review? If so, yes. As for the ARE, it takes scheduling and stuff that will take longer than a week and it would have been far too soon before NCARB would have score results.

RickB-Astoria

Even though I was technically not required to have taken the Architect Law Review "exam" (multiple choice, T&F, etc.) yet, the online application "program" kind of required it. A technical mistake of the computer but oh well... I did it anyway so I can complete the application process so the application form they needed can be submitted for initiating the ARE Eligibility. The rest of the stuff needed for licensure would be submitted to the DOL and/or be in the NCARB record. Those will still need to be completed before licensure. The ARE would take inherently more time but I will aim to post here on this thread or otherwise in an appropriate thread or something when I pass each division. In short, if I am too dumb to pass the law review, I would be too stupid to pass the ARE.


RickB-Astoria

1. I received ARE Eligibility for testing from Washington DOL.

2. I passed the WA state DOL's Architect Law Review.


RickB-Astoria

Legally, I didn't technically have to do the Architect Law Review until the time I needed to get licensed but since there isn't a particular law or rule that explicitly says I have to do it after say, arch degree/experience. The online application form as a technical mistake required me to upload the law review before I can submit the application form that I needed to submit for the board to begin process for issuing ARE eligibility.


SneakyPete

NCARB gives you preliminary results at the time you complete the exam. These results are nearly certain to be correct unless there's suspicion of cheating.

RickB-Astoria

Thanks for the info.

shellarchitect

That's awesome, beats waiting 6 weeks

RickB-Astoria

Yes, indeed.

natematt
The final scores for ARE 5.0 are actually really quick. Under two weeks most of the time it seems.
Nov 18, 19 4:17 pm

Even at the end of 4.0 the scores were pretty quick. Rarely took longer than 2 weeks.

Bench

Is it via email?

b3tadine[sutures]

In my state, I hear, they are are immediate.

As mentioned earlier 5.0 has started allowing the test candidate to get a provisional pass/fail at the testing center. I have not heard of them ever being wrong, but it isn’t official until you get the score report, usually within a week or two. This gives NCARB the ability to check for irregularities and such. The official report will then be posted to your NCARB record online maybe a few hours ahead of the email notifying you that it has been posted.

Bench

Perfect, many thanks!

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