Archinect
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Please eliminate anon posting

350

The quality of this site would drastically improve if anon comments were not allowed.

Supposedly this is a website to connect architects and others in a respectful, useful way.

Anon accounts do not encourage that.

Many newspapers have removed the comment function entirely due to the anon trolls.

 
Oct 14, 18 3:51 pm
Non Sequitur

no.


Oct 14, 18 3:53 pm

What are the anon people afraid of? 

Oct 14, 18 5:29 pm
urbanity

your proposal would stifle freedom of speech and expression...

should that happen simply because something or someone annoys you? if that were the case, this site and others like it would not exist.



Oct 14, 18 6:01 pm

If your speech depends on anon user accounts, I am sorry.

Non Sequitur

See the featured comment for your anwser

This site would exist. The trolls, they would have to refocus on other sites. I suggest they focus on Fox News or perhaps RT?

urbanity

freedom of speech and expression are rights in this country. your opinion does not negate the rights of others.

your original post mentions connecting architects and others in a respectful way. should there be a different set of circumstances based on a posters user name?

Oct 14, 18 6:26 pm

I respect people when I know who I am speaking to. Anon people could be closet Nazis. If I am addressing Hitler2 I want to know upfront so I can take appropriate actions.

urbanity

so you feel entitled to be disrespectful to others just because they choose to use a pseudonym instead of their given name on a website?

RickB-Astoria

urbanity, 

FYI: the rights of the U.S. Constitution does not apply to websites that are not ran by the U.S. government or individual states of the U.S. Internet websites are private properties like people's homes. Also another FYI: your U.S. Constitutional rights does not protect you from being kicked out of a person's home or shop, or place of business because when you are in someone else's place, you are only there as guest and on the privilege of being a guest in someone else's place. There is no inherent right in that regard. U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights was to establish enumerated rights that you have that shall bar the U.S. government from arresting or imprisoning you. Think of the context. We just fought the War of Independence which began when we issued our declaration of Independence which that very act was an act of treason under the laws of the British empire. Prior to the war, if you spoke against the king of the British empire, they can arrest you, hang you, shoot you or whatever. So when you say, F--- Donald J. Trump, you can legally say that and not have the FBI storming your home and arresting you. That is what the Freedom of speech is about. The freedom to express and even peacefully protest without fear of being in prison because you have some grievance against the direction of your elected officials. It has nothing to do with what a privately owned and ran site such as this. 

In effect, our freedom to express here is at the privilege of the owner(s) of Archinect. It isn't like we have an absolute Constitutional right to express whatever and however we feel. This is ultimately at the discretion of Archinect staff. The choice of a privately run site like this to allow a wide degree of expression is a choice of the site owners and the staff of Archinect. LinkedIn is a platform that inherently by the nature of how the platform is ran that effectively requires disclosure of identity on the various forums on LinkedIn. In which case, people are inherently held accountable and that maybe a certain fear. The biggest reason for anonymity is when an employee expresses grievances about the firm or heir owners, the anonymity provides some degree of shielding but had they expressed their grievances with their name, they would or could have a pink slip (termination of employment) within the next day or so. Employers legally can retaliate against employees who speaks negatively about them with many employers in countries with little to no protection from employers firing employees. Even in the U.S., there really isn't much employees if they were fired especially in At-will employment states. The issue isn't about me or others reporting them to licensing boards. While you may go by your real name but then it would be easier for you to be held accountable but then you shouldn't be doing stuff that would be in violation of the law nor should you EVER talk about such stuff on the internet. If you did, you kind of deserve what happens. 

Now, as I said earlier, the issue of being fired by your employer because they got upset with what you said and fired you, whether you deserve it or not is situational on a case by case basis. I can rationally see an oppressive overbearing employer who's a total jerk retaliating because some employee discloses their inappropriate yet not totally illegal conduct. You might think the "whistle-blower" laws would come to your rescue. The reality it, it doesn't. You usually won't get your job back and you would usually have an expensive process of suing the employer and you might get lost wages/salaries for the duration you were unemployed before you got another job and your court and lawyer costs. You won't necessarily get much more than that. In the end, you still lost the job. The damage was done. I can see both sides of the issue but since this is a forum with a significant population of employees and students, it may make sense. It isn't a forum of business owners even though there are firm owners on this forum as well. It is a mixed population.

curtkram

getting rid of anon's accounts wouldn't get rid of balkins. 

also, i don't want my speech here associated with my firm or clients.  

Oct 14, 18 6:32 pm

So then your speech here is false.

citizen

That's quite the leap: opinions expressed without a notarized affadavit are thereby "false."

curtkram

No David, my speech that represents my opinion will sometimes be different than my speech that represents an organization that is bigger than just me.

Speech = $


Or vice-versa

.

@#*%&! iPad  

RickB-Astoria

curtkram, I agree with you. 

Personally, I would treat your personal opinions in casual discussion different than how you might make as a professional or in an official business capacity regardless of whether your business was just you or involved other co-owners. I would reason that I would expect likewise in return regardless of whether the firm or business represented is one owner or multiple owners. Context matters. 

Just because Miles has his opinions in casual discussion which I may agree with or disagree with, I understand that he may take a different stance when its a professional decision as a business. A business position and personal position can be different. The same as how I may look at David Curtis.

Another point, just because one person likes Trump and another doesn't. If they were both good employees that I would like to hire ans I had a need for two positions, I would hire both especially if they can conduct themselves professionally despite opposing political views even those I don't agree with politically. 

I treat political discrimination like religious discrimination. It would be inappropriate to hire or fire on political or religious views differences.

citizen

Rewrite as "Please eliminate most posting."  

Because that would be the effect.  The vast majority of anonymous posters here aren't obnoxious.

Oct 14, 18 7:15 pm
BulgarBlogger

I think David is referring to my doorman comments as being a symptom of his perception of me of being Hitler2 lol

Oct 14, 18 8:44 pm

bingo, you get the door prize

geezertect

What makes you think people wouldn't just make up false but legitimate sounding names?

Oct 14, 18 8:53 pm
citizen

I claim Lance Manion, A.I. friggin A.

RickB-Astoria

There are ways to verify. Such as disclosure of name, license #, licensing jurisdiction, contact information, etc. Of course, if you use a false identification then you might be able to get into trouble but it isn't something I would want to spend my time on.

I own my words. My name is applied to them. I highly recommend it. It is called not being a fraud.

Oct 14, 18 10:54 pm
RickB-Astoria

Are you sure you want to stand by all of them them in a professional capacity? I know I made some zingers which I wouldn't stand by on a professional capacity but because it was a casual debate that they aren't nor should be treated as professional judgment. I think you made a few of them 'zingers' over the years.

all of them, 100%

it's called not being a douchebag

RickB-Astoria

Including making some of my own mistakes?

Non Sequitur

I ain't no fraud, just feel like I might need to point out to the occasional dumb hipster wankers that they are dumb without having my social media (or work place) accounts messed with by said dumb hipster wankers. It's happened before, so anonymous I remain.

RickB-Astoria

The only thing I have noticed more of when people (I don't mean everyone) use anonymous accounts, there is a tendency for them to act more "dickish" ( https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dickish&utm_source=search-action ) in their comments. While in other forums where you were identified by your real name, there is a tendency to be more respectful in their replies with a higher standard of professional decorum.

RickB-Astoria

"I ain't no fraud, just feel like I might need to point out to..." Be careful with the use of double negatives. It can be read via proper grammar against you. "ain't" is the contraction form of "am not" especially in your sentence form. 

What you said is "I am not no fraud..." If we properly correct the grammar of the double negative, you have to apply the grammar math rule that is derived from the math rules. In this case, two negatives equals a positive rule. The double negative of "not and no" would neutralize each other and in turn transform your sentence to saying "I am fraud" which requires a preposition. In this case, "a". Now that sentence you said ultimately says, "I am a fraud, just feel like I might need...". 

 In any case, you should never in grammatically correct sentence use double negative. I do understand your intended meaning but some jerk might call you on it as such. You might want to avoid using double negatives in written and spoken communication.

This point isn't just for you but others as well who have a habit of using double negatives. Simple: Don't use double negatives. Rewrite so you are not using double negative and be clear what you mean.

Non Sequitur

Thanks Ricky. I’ll just pull out the “English is not my primary language” card.

RickB-Astoria

You're in Ontario.... right? It is obvious that you write primarily in English with a clear command of the language that a person would have if they learned it as a primary language. Some people in places have two primary languages because they are taught it concurrently from childhood. Considering you primarily write in English on this forum unlike people who speak in other languages because that is what they know and have a command of. I would know if you were writing in French. I'll take it that you may have a stronger command of French than myself while I took three college courses in French some years ago as a foreign language requirement in bachelors and higher level education which I took at the community college a decade ago.

Bonne journée.

Non Sequitur

Ricky, I, as well as my entire family, is francophone (french first language, but live in ontario... aka, not dirty quebec). Learned both official languages concurrently. This helps greatly since the vast majority of the trades are french-only speaking in my area. (See dirty quebec comment above). Not sure what the point here is tho. 8-)

kjdt

Rick you have your own chronic grammar issues that make the meanings of your comments unclear or ambiguous. "Maybe" and "may be" don't mean the same thing and aren't even the same parts of speech. Sentences that begin with "while" are always compound. They need to have a comma, followed by a second phrase. Without that they are just incomplete thoughts that make no sense at all. "Then" and "than" are different words with different meanings. They're not interchangeable. "The rights of the US Constitution" are plural. "Are not ran" mixes tenses and means nothing. Those are just a few of the more than 50 mistakes in your post above. If you're going to nitpick others' grammar then hold yourself to the same standard.

RickB-Astoria

Non Sequitur, 

I may have my own grammar issues like misusing "maybe" for "may be" (or vice versa) or not always putting a comma after the word "while". When I start a post that with your name followed by a comma and then the word while, I frequently forget to put the comma after the word "while" during the edit cycle to break up long paragraphs and other changes. I have to do that along with all the other edits or modifications in literally 5 minutes or less after the initial posts. The comment feature doesn't allow separating paragraphs when writing a reply message. 

To get to the point, I was suggesting you to avoid using double negative in sentence form when writing in English. When a person says "I ain't no fool". They are saying "I am not no fool". That means the person said "I am a fool". You can change the word fool to fraud and you would understand that would or could be used against you. When you wrote, "I ain't no fraud" you are saying you are a fraud which I was trying to tell you to don't do that. It would be tools a person such as a lawyer would use against you. Be careful is the point.

PandasAreSexy

What if someone is being sexually harassed or experiencing racism at their work place, which happens to be a prominent architects office.

And what if they are in a financial situation that makes the above problems complicated.

What if they want to get some advice and support on what they should do but need it to be anonymous due to the topics sensitive nature and potential negative effect on their career and current job that they can't really afford to loose right now?

Oct 14, 18 11:19 pm

Pandasaresexy, call a lawyer, file a police report. Today. Now. 

PandasAreSexy

And if those are not options, hypothetically speaking?

They are always options, always. No exceptions.

File a police report. They will make it difficult. Do it anyway. Press charges.

PandasAreSexy

Yes, I never said there where no options, I asked what your solution is if the options you listed are not available, for example the woman in question is in a conservative country where a 'scandal' like the one I have made up being public in any form could ruin her chances of marriage or cause other social or family problems? Or let us say in the USA where someone possibly reading her post could get back to her bosses and she could be fired from her job she absolutely cannot afford to lose at this moment?


File a police report. They will make it difficult. Do it anyway. Press charges.

Then sue the fuck out of the asshole.

PandasAreSexy

Little or nothing may come of a police report and lawsuits take years with no guarantee of winning, not to mention that sexual harassment is not taken seriously in many countries.

Well I can only describe your legal options.

The non-legal ones are in movies.

PandasAreSexy

Why can't you give me any other options? How about some other examples... A frustrated first year university student has a professor that is not so good, and just needs to have a good rant about their shitty professor, should they have to do it under their full name were the professor may find it later and then be biased against them and give them a bad grade? What about a teenager who is interested in architecture and says some foolish things here?

University students can file complaints too. The teenager typically then gets abused by anon aholes.

curtkram

it was great you were able to get this advice from david on this forum without having to worry about exposing your identity panda.

Panda could have and perhaps should file an anon complaint with the school. Then they will sit on it. So he/she should file a police report. Then get an attorney. There is literally no other option that is legal.

SneakyPete

The past month's events might have provided evidence that this:


"David Curtis

File a police report. They will make it difficult. Do it anyway. Press charges.

David Curtis

Then sue the fuck out of the asshole."


is terrible advice.

If you never do the police report, none of the other steps matter. And then one day you are testifying maybe at the SC and 50% of the voters don't believe you.

ask your attorney 

Oct 15, 18 12:25 am
PandasAreSexy

Are you offering to pay for that?

Step 1: police report = zero dollars.

SneakyPete

Step 2: targeted harassment, slander, character assassination, and termination of employment because our country idiotically made "at-will" the default employment style.

Stop being an employee?

randomised

I'm against eliminating anon posting. You can already flag posts or threads that are crossing the line, or ignore users. I'm pro-choice here, leave it up to the individual. If you want to use this forum to advertise yourself and get real-world clients out of your interactions here, or use it for networking or showing off all your credentials, go right ahead. If you want to just participate in online discussions on all matters architectural or more, without using your real name, that should be possible too, this is the internet after all.

Oct 15, 18 4:05 am

Oh this is the internet. Thank you for explaining that.

archiwutm8

So you want a system like China where everyone is tracked via a ID system? 


Everyone is entitled to their privacy and anonymity. It's the beauty of the internet.




Shit may as well start censoring everything, link everyones internet usage to their passports.

Oct 15, 18 5:19 am

I want a forum that is like reality. With faces and names. Then when someone is being a dick, we can say hey Joey, you are being a dick. We can specifically know the specific Joey who is being the problem. And Joey will be less likely to post asshole remarks constantly.

If you want to be anon go post on Wikileaks.

randomised

But what if it is not about being a dick (simply flag their posts or ignore them entirely, it's not rocket science )but about much smaller things, let's say Joey is an anon admirer here of the work of Mies or Rem but at his job he's stuck designing with styrofoam cornices and Mies is regarded there as the anti-Christ. His admiration here might cause Joey his job or promotion. Sorry, but if you can't handle the anonymity of the internet that is totally your problem, archinect was born with it.

Joey should lose his job, he is a fraud

Non Sequitur

Being a dick is subjective. No value in putting real life things at risk because some online wanker takes a fit.

randomised

Yes, sure he's a fraud but what if there are no other jobs in his neck of the woods, he can't help it he likes Mies and Rem. Who'll provide for little Joey Jr. or Mrs. Joey when Joey's out on the street? Poor Joey...and Little Joey Jr. especially, considering his pre-existing medical condition, how will they get coverage now? You've killed Little Joey Jr., and all because you couldn't figure out how to work the "flag post" or "ignore user" button of Joey Sr.'s posts.

Then Joey can call me. #endgame...

RickB-Astoria

David Curtis, if you work as an employee for anyone but yourself, you will always be something you disagree with than your boss and yous boss may disagree with you. Employers in at-will employment states can fire you for those reasons. Wrongful termination laws would be of no use in trying to sue the boss because a boss can legally fire you for the reason randomised said and there is ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL RECOURSE. Hiring a lawyer or even consulting one would be a waste of time and money. If you have any iota of understanding of your legal options and when they apply and don't apply then you would know that you can't sue the boss. Employees are generally more in need of a job than an employer needs employees. This is the usual norm.

SneakyPete

Hey David, you're being a dick. Stay tuned to see whether this post had any effect.

It only works if you type it with your actual name.

( o Y o )

I never post anonymously.  

Oct 15, 18 9:16 am

sensible

Many newspapers have removed the comment function entirely due to the anon trolls.

Many newspapers have removed the comment function because of people challenging the bullshit they print.

Oct 15, 18 9:18 am
Non Sequitur

people still read newspapers?

randomised

people still read?

Tweets. Don't read the comments below the articles, trust me

100% agree with the idea of removing anonymous posting. It's not being used as it was intended. 

Oct 15, 18 2:16 pm
JLC-1

what is not used as intended? this forum or the whole internet?

JLC-1

1.this is not a newspaper.

2.what would you do if you knew BulgarBlogger's real name?

3.Do you ask every person you interact with for his/her full name?

4.Can you point to 3 useful and respectful interactions between architects on this forum?

Oct 15, 18 2:17 pm

1. So what?

2. Avoid him.

3. Yes.

4. How would I know, they are anon?

JLC-1

exactly

JLC-1

unfortunately david, life surrounds us with anon people, and we just have to play it by ear - would you refuse to work with a tile setter or an electrician if you knew his political affiliation to be different than yours?

JLC-1

or the alternative, don't play if you don't like the rules - I closed facebook and twitter for that reason, but I don't expect them to change the rules for me.

I would refuse to work with a contractor if he chose to be anon, yes, all day long

geezertect

And you think a contractor building one of your buildings is analogous to an anonymous poster responding to one of your entries. Don't you think the potential consequences are a little different????

Nope they are totally the same thing. I'm surprised, frankly you would not see it that way, being the anon commentor that your are being...(totally not biased)

RickB-Astoria

I don't see it that way Mr. Curtis. With a contractor, they have to be licensed or registered up in Oregon and Washington, respectively. If they are going to practice construction, we need to be able to verify those things. Add to that, there is even more serious potential consequences.

This is a private vehicle. Users sign a use agreement. The agreement could add the part about no anon users. Easy peasy.

RickB-Astoria

Well, what does the user agreement say? You don't own the "vehicle". A website is generally compared to being in someone else's home or vehicle if you like. The owner (usually driver but not always) dictates the rule. It's not a democracy. It's not the United States here. It is Archinect. Piss off the owner or driver and you are out of the car just like the being kicked out of the house. You are a guest. You have NO RIGHTS. You only have privileges. If you don't like it.... there's the door. Get the message, now?

kjdt

People frequently post here about their job searches, problems at work, what to do about a bad boss, should they stay at their current job or move on, etc. The responses that they get often include a lot of anecdotes from others' similar experiences, lessons learned, and regrets at roads not taken.  If anonymous posting was removed then I wouldn't post as much about my past work experiences, current firm, client interactions, or many other topics.  It's not that I'd be uncomfortable with my own identity being known - it's that sharing my identity indirectly shares the identities of those who figure into my experiences.  If anonymous posting was lost then so would much of the openness to share and advise from experience.

I'd rather put up with the occasional abuses that anonymous posting can allow, and make good use of the Ignore button.

Oct 15, 18 2:24 pm

Perhaps a public forum is not such a great place for that sort of content? #rocketscience

kjdt

It seems like exactly what the forum is intended for, and what it's been used for lo these 20 years.

Perhaps the original premise has an obvious and persistent flaw?

kjdt

Perhaps.  Flaws are in the eye of the beholder.

There are lots of other architecture and home designer forums that are less anonymous - on LinkedIn, AIA "knowledge communities", CSI, and countless other sites. If this one's setup isn't to your liking why do you spend so much time here?

to bust your balls

Non Sequitur

^how are you so sure there are balls to be busted?

I use the term loosely

balls/vagina

kjdt

Ok, bust away. If that's your reason for being here then why do you care if it's anonymous? Same balls (or lack thereof) either way.

I only bust anon balls/vagina

kjdt

The reason you're here instead of somewhere non-anonymous is so you can bust anonymous balls... but you want here to be non-anonymous too. Won't that eliminate your raisson d'être? Then what?

No the reason I am here is because:

1. I was born in 1964.

2. Archinect exists and I put some content on it.

3. That now gives license to anon trolls to vomit on it all day with no resulting taken on the part of the creators of Archinect.

randomised

What anon vomit? Most vomit here is not anon ;) Should the creators of Archinect babysit you and protect you personally from other posters you might have a disagreement with? Really? I thought you had thicker skin than that. This is the internet. Come on, flag the posts, ignore the users and move on. Don't you have other things to do? I really don't get this obsession with anon posters, are you referring to anyone in particular, that might clarify things a bit.

I am currently involved in renaming a school district in California that was named for the Confederacy. I am getting a lot of anon attacks all day long. So far, the attacks have merely verbal.

(been)

randomised

That's annoying but has nothing to do with Archinect.

oh there was an "action" that was supposed to go btwn "resulting" and "taken". (lacking the persistent edit function)

Supposedly the premise was to connect.

Supposedly Facebook was a place for "Friends".

Oct 15, 18 2:33 pm

or Facial recognition...public mocking, something.

JLC-1

land of the free, home of the brave.

Voting on which entitled a-hole student was "hot"

JLC-1

you know the story of zuckerberg, maybe you need to create your own website, only for serious , non anonymous posters.

Yes another website will fix everything

JLC-1

stop moving the goal posts, that's worse than anonymity

Life is not (a) race. Ken Lee

PandasAreSexy

That isn't what moving the goal posts means...

I just want to point out that pandas are sexy. (to pandas)

Rusty!

This forum averages 0.7 new threads per day. Let's eliminate 80% of commenters! That will make it even better. 

Oct 15, 18 2:37 pm

sounds ok to me

No, let's assign actual names to them before allowing them to vomit on our eyes all day.

RickB-Astoria

David Curtis,

How about contact your former IDP/AXP supervisor for those NCARB hours on LinkedIn. He has a LinkedIn profile. I don't his condition and all but I might suggest you look up his license detail from California Architect Board for an address that you can mail him. 


Oct 15, 18 2:52 pm

That had occurred to me over the last 22 days as I have left messages with him and sent emails...

I can only assume either his wife won't let him or he fell off a cliff taking a selfie

or perhaps he is butt hurt over having to deal with ahole corporate real estate management yahoos all day when he wants to be doing yoga

RickB-Astoria

Try sending an actual mail to the mailing address as listed n the California Architect Board licensee verification. It's there. I'm trying to not post that information directly on the forum. With a little cleaver searching methods (and legal), phone number could be found. I don't know the situation. Another option, albiet not desired would be to earn another 900 hours or whatever as needed to meet your AXP hours. I know it sucks but be prepared because if it would take more than 6 months to get him to sign off or if he is for other reasons no longer able to, I would pursue redoing those hours.

I did that too because rocket scientist

RickB-Astoria

I wish you best of luck and outcome to getting that PITA process behind you.

thank you, it means "the world" to me

proto

I want to shake Lance Manion, AIFA,'s hand



bravo, sir

Oct 15, 18 2:59 pm

but you cannot be sure that he/she even has hands...

yoga/drumming

Oct 15, 18 3:47 pm

I'm trying public shaming because all the normal methods did not work 

Oct 15, 18 3:48 pm
curtkram

i don't feel ashamed yet

This could be because you are a healthy person/not person X?

sameolddoctor

David you either have nothing to do/self employed. Most of us here are employed with others. So, NO.

Oct 15, 18 4:53 pm

Your employment status is not my problem.

Today, as you may have noticed, I am trying to get a self-employed licensed architect in CA to do HIS job.

I would refuse to work with a contractor if he chose to be anon, yes, all day long. So would you.

Oct 15, 18 5:41 pm
LITS4FormZ

You could always hire some SJSU intern to build your own archinect and insist that everyone create accounts based on their academic or professional emails. Problem solved.

Oct 15, 18 5:53 pm

not a bad idea, thanks

"Mission: The goal of Archinect is to make architecture more connected and open-minded, and bring together designers from around the world to introduce new ideas from all disciplines."

The new idea I am introducing is to get rid of anon posting.

Oct 15, 18 5:59 pm
rickrossdaboss

get rid of shitposting, like say someone’s wedding pictures. #letsgetreal #whosusesthese

Oct 15, 18 6:15 pm

#jealousy is not attractive

RickB-Astoria

You wrote above: "Mission: The goal of Archinect is to make architecture more connected and open-minded, and bring together designers from around the world to introduce new ideas from all disciplines."

The new idea I am introducing is to get rid of anon posting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The getting rid of anonymous posting (italicized) can be argued to be counter to the mission especially the noted the parts in bold.... connected and open-minded. People tend to be afraid to speak openly their thoughts because they live and conduct their career under an oppressive employer especially where there is little to absolutely nothing they can legally pursue that would result in any restitution let alone appropriate level of restitution because the laws fall short of being enough. We don't any laws where an employer will lose their business, business licenses, 1,000,000 fine per unlawful termination and restitution of loss wages/salaries that a person gets for the entire duration of their unemployment times in 6 month units plus 50% additional for the emotional stress on the employee, compensation for any losses including restitution for losing housing be it rent or real property, full compensation of all court cost fees & lawyer fees, and the employers loses their occupational licenses and spend a decade in prison for firing employees exercising their freedom of speech and expression. When we have serious laws with actual teeth that will bite hard on employers being jackasses, the employee loses out. Unless we put this kind of penalty, employees are always subject to repercussions from their employer for expressing their opinions. 

This is why there is this sort of rule: If you are an employee, you do not speak publicly in any way or form. Employers infringes on employees freedom of speech and other Constitutional rights but there is no legal recourse. You can attempt to sue but what attorney that is qualified to represent a person fired from their job would do this work for free without there being a slam dunk legal case. The only way it would be a slam dunk case is if the reason the employee was fired in clearly known and is clearly and outright violating law. If you noticed, "protected classes" such as in anti-discrimination, does not protect political speeches. It protects religion but doesn't protect you from having merely different opinions in a forum. 

I know some of my comments would have outright got me fired but that's being clear cut honest. Some firms would fire you because you used the words balls and pussy and not referring to baseballs, basketballs, and the likes or cats. They may find an employee using that in a public forum as offensive and detrimental to their business image they want to project. Therefore, you would have got a pink slip by some employers and you couldn't hope to pursue a lawsuit with any chance of winning. An attorney that knows their shit wouldn't even take you as a client for such a case even in California. 


Oct 15, 18 6:25 pm
RickB-Astoria

There are justifiable reasons for anonymous posting. However, like anything, people don't always use it for justifiable reasons.

For you I would have a special rule that requires your post(s) be in the form Haiku.

RickB-Astoria

Would that make me an architect?

A poet

godcomplex

not much of a difference

RickB-Astoria

What's the difference?

Poets make even less money

RickB-Astoria

Are you sure?

sameolddoctor

Get back on your meds bro.

Oct 15, 18 6:59 pm

Any suggestions?

curtkram

benadryl

straight or mixed?

curtkram

mixed of course. everything should have whiskey in it. could you even imagine brushing your teeth in the morning without mixing in some whiskey?

Sadly, I am more of a coffee by day, whiskey by night kind of guy.

Non Sequitur

This one is for you Curt:

ryetooth

I think we can try out a compromise and allow the folks who create a thread the option to ban anonymous folks from posting, this can be useful for the threads that get the worst of the trolling, the students asking for help, and the folks outside the profession seeking advice.  

As for your conduct on these forums, If you don't want to be fired for being a jerk to someone on-line then don't be a jerk. It is so easy to not type in vitriol and foolish things.

Also I have managed to land a few clients from these forums by being as professional as I can be, if architect does not reform then it will end up losing it's relevance in the profession as we are probably losing out on people who are interested in architecture and want to have an informative and constructive discourse.

Over and OUT

Peter N

Oct 16, 18 10:09 am

excellent points

randomised

What trolling are you referring to Peter?

Non Sequitur

People who come here for informative & constructive discourse are likely outnumbered 10 to 1 by those looking for freebies.

People who come here for freebies are likely outnumbered 10 to 1 by those posting spam.

Trolling? How about the whole balkins affair? Things degenerate fairly quickly when you are personally not going to be held to account to that you post.

Non Sequitur

but balkins is not anonymous.

RickB-Astoria

The road is two ways here. Employers need to not base firing decisions on any vindictive reasoning.... EVER. Firing someone for having a disagreement or different point of view would be wrong. However, firing someone for being a jerk in public (which includes web forums). The internet is not a truly private venue. It's like a house with no acoustic dampening. If the posts on the forum can be viewed by anyone not with an account or otherwise, we have to act like proper professional adults. Something we have not always done so as a forum. In fact, this basic conduct is the legally required and expected conduct of adults. Legal requirements comes from case law of adults being of capacity to make decisions for themselves would also know how to socially behave with others and fundamental right and wrong. Douchebaggery is unbecoming of an adult and in turn a professional.

randomised

What affair and is it even trolling if you simply believe what you post?

RickB-Astoria

"but balkins is not anonymous." 

You're right because if I was being anonymous, I wouldn't be too obvious. I'm only very mildly obfuscating my identity but not much. It's really a thin veil like superman's Clark Kent glasses and parting the hair in the opposite direction kind of mild obfuscating.

You have to be oblivious to absolutely everything in the world and profoundly dumb like a doctoral genius in "dumbass-ology" if you don't see the obvious.


Balkins is a real person the trolling of his comments and post is an example. https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150089889/the-whereabouts-of-richard-w-c-balkins-faia

RickB-Astoria

I don't recall if I already done so but congrats on completing your architectural licensing back in May.

placebeyondthesplines

this is adorable


Oct 16, 18 1:57 pm

thank you, this means a lot

Another issue is:

I post as my actual name I take 100% risk.

Anon person risks 0%.

I guess I am saying grow a pair/or a vagina.

Zero risk people die invisible and lonely.

Oct 17, 18 4:43 am
randomised

An anon person can be more open and discuss things that are usually not discussed out in the open. They risk more by the possibility of being found out, you risk nothing, everybody knows who you are, what's the risk?

curtkram

my online identity will die alone :(

Non Sequitur

slow clap for David

Randomised, the problem is there are a few bad actors who post anonymously and they drag the forum down into the dirt with them. The need to vent your frustrations is one thing the need to bully people and make crass snide remarks in response to someone asking for some help is another. People are growing tired of the nonsense, there is a steep decline in the number of people posting on threads as compared to a few years ago, I guess the vitriol some of the anonymous posters may have had something to do with it. If the decline continues and the forum is just a romper room for 10-12 folks to shout at each other then it will likely go away. We can keep the forum or we can keep anonymous posting until we lose the forum.

randomised

Who's being bullied here Peter? The person who's mostly being bullied here is Rick as far as I can tell, and he's somehow anonymous (and being singled out also by non-anon posters). I don't see any bullying of non-anon archinectors here, do you? The decline in posting is because this site was established pre-social media, and it could only go down, the opening up of non-anon/verified accounts made it even slower (in 2010?). I think the more you make this place like Facebook, the slower the traffic will get. Anonymous posting is the lifeblood of archinect, without it there simply is no forum:


Note that blue flatline in the bottom image...

Comparison to FB is irrelevent. If anything the charts show a downward trend in general.

randomised

The comparison with FB is not irrelevant, it's a solid spurious correlation, and that's what posting under your real name here feels like, and for some people they even use archinect like my aunt is using FB (yes you David ;-)

JLC-1

you're a hero, the internet will be always on your debt

Your aunt sounds like a genius type person, and good looking I imagine, but what happened to her hair?

The risk is location. Location, location, location. See also insane persons and John Lennon...

randomised

Her hair? I guess she pulled it out out of frustration.

RickB-Astoria

I'll argue that this trend is common on just about all forums. In the beginning, they would get a lot more posts and they gradually reach apex and then gradually decline in rate of posts because what needs to be said, had been said. What had been said 15 to 100 times will not be regularly repeated because those who knows the answer and answered multiple times gets burned out in repeating themselves. This site has reached its maturity as a site and forum considering the population it serves is a niche sector. When it is no longer "new" and people will eventually decline in how often they post. This is what we see. Our user base is about critical mass for our sector. When the site was new, every tom, dick, and harry architect checked it out. Some liked it. Some didn't. The population is at a steady base. We see new individuals from time to time. Everything I see in that chart looks pretty much the same as any other site as they mature over a 10 year period.

Keep it the same, the line will keep heading south. See also: the early and mid career decisions of Madonna.

DC makes the argument that getting rid of anon posting would improve the quality of the site (albeit without much solid evidence other than his own opinion), but most of the anon posters aren't really addressing that. Instead they focus on how their participation would stop and traffic to the site would go down. It's an argument of quality vs quantity. 

Perhaps DC is correct that forced to post under their real name, the quality of posts would increase. I'll point out that just because someone is anonymous doesn't mean they don't make substantive comments. It's a personal choice for each person involved. DC has posted a lot to the site (over 5000 comments at the time of this posting), not all of it quality. This thread itself could easily be classified as trolling. 

Have I trolled in the past? Yes. Have I disguised trolling as substantive content? Yes. Have I contributed quality content to the site? I believe so. Would I have contributed that content under my real name ... at my current employ? No*. Has that content generated quality interactions? Definitely. Has it generated traffic and trolling? Definitely**. Only the big green head can really say whether it is good or bad for the site. 

Ultimately, I don't think DC is really concerned with quality of content in the forums. Instead, I think he is looking for an easy way to dismiss the opinions of others by ad hominem attacks (it's hard to attack the person rather than the argument if you don't know anything about the person). But that's just some anon's opinion.



*I'm too early in my career, I want to be able to post content without wondering how my employer or coworkers (or future employers and coworkers) will interpret it. I acknowledge that I can't always ensure that people will be able to distinguish my personal statements from my employer's position, so I don't really leave it up to them by posting anonymously preventing any attempt to link my statements with my employer.

**Note the troll in that thread was not anonymous, was banned, and is now back posting ... even then you can find substantive content in there if you take the time.

Oct 17, 18 1:04 pm

you have a conflict of interest being an anon poster...

My motivation is bandwidth. I use this site for architecture related BS. I will just unlink to it until the anon comment function is removed. Cheers.

You are making your employment status somehow my problem...

randomised

"It's an argument of quality vs quantity. " You are correct but if I would stop posting, because anon were ausradiert, both quality and quantity would go down :)

randomised

Oops, sorry forgot the

randomised

/b

I still don't get it please try again

  1. You have a conflict of interest being a non-anon poster. My conflict is self imposed because I also participate from an account linked to my real identity ... or does that make the conflict null and void? 
  2. Feel free to unlink to the site ... assuming that means you'll stop coming to the site and posting the architecture related BS. 
  3. My employment status is not your problem. Your problem is you want to know who I am and I'm not divulging that information willingly.
RickB-Astoria

He wants your identity so he can sue you or have his lawyer spouse or whatever draft up the nasty cease and desist letter and similar letters to threaten a lawsuit against you if felt that you bothered him. He can't sue someone unless he has their real identity. The process to obtaining that via IP address records of the site that is associated to you logging in to this forum AND then having to subpoena the internet service provider which the IP address will link back to to obtain customer account information for which customer that IP address was assigned to on given date and time. Then they can go to the house or business location and seize the computers for their investigation. A process that is far more expensive than already having your identity. David Curtis, forget it. No one is going to fall for that trap. Your lawsuit happy approach makes you the poster child for why people use anonymity. How about grow a thick skin and not worry about other people's opinions.

"...makes you the poster child for why people use anonymity."

^ That's cute because Rick used to be the poster child for why people use anonymity. It used to be that if you pissed off Rick he'd find a reason to report you to your state's licensing board. Glad your skin has gotten thicker Rick.

RickB-Astoria

Haha, yeah.

Dear Rick, when someone threatens your family member, come back and let me know how that went for you.

RickB-Astoria

That would justify use of anonymity on your part as well. It does depend on what the threat is. Is it a lawsuit threat? Is it a threat of bodily harm? They can't intentionally follow through on threatening your family member if they don't know who you are or any other background information. They probably would get shot. If they threatened, they would already raise security levels here. In this country and in the states, we have the unvetted right to defend and protect our life, liberty, and property. This means, I have the right to use any reasonable means necessary to defend my life and that of my family members and property and liberty. In a situation like a threat of life or bodily harm, I have the right to execute those rights, within reason, as necessary which includes use of lethal force when reasonable threat warrants that level of force response. This doesn't mean you resort to using lethal force if the threat does not involve the use of a life threatening weapon where you can reasonably respond with less than lethal force to stop the situation. You could call the police if there is time but usually in a situation, there usually isn't the time to have a phone conversation with dispatch.

history, in the past

RickB-Astoria

History repeats itself to those who never learns from it.

Yes, keeping a racist name means nothing was learned.

RickB-Astoria

Racist name? Dixie is not a racist name. It's not really racism. The school district was named after its first school building.... the Dixie Schoolhouse. Dixie was never a racist name. It isn't the same thing as saying the n-word. Dixie has been used as a derogatory label for Southerner or Confederate but guess what.... the Confederacy is dead. If it was a racist label as you implied, then that label would be applied to ALL Caucasians (white people). It may have a stereotype in its origins as a word but that wasn't why the school district was named. It had nothing to do with Confederacy. Why are anyone today bent out of shape over a word that had absolutely no relevancy today. If anything, Dixie was a slang to refer to a region and people of a region of the United States. Mason-Dixon line is a key here. Jeremiah Dixon was the surveyor of which "Dixie" gets its namesake from. People are getting bent out of shape for what? Because of Donald Trump and is racist pals. Then do something about Donald Trump and his regime. I've seen enough nonsense because people are too onion-skin and making a mountain out of a non-existent mole hill. Why wasn't there protest against it in the 1960s or 1970s? This is because they had more tact about themselves and more self control. Lets stop trying to "white-out" the Civil War which is exactly what the people whining about "Dixie" wants. Here's a lesson to be learned, if you try to forget history that shaped the events that leads to our present, we will repeat those mistakes. We will have another Civil War. Humans always repeats the past when they forget the past. This has happened EVERY SINGLE TIME in all of the last 2 MILLION YEARS of human existence. If we forget about the tragedy of using the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we will commit that mistake again. We would be forgetting why we try to stop nuclear proliferation. Thou who forgets their mistakes repeats them.

JBeaumont

David Curtis what thread is it where you posted content and it got vomited on by anonymous trolls?  I'd like to see the context, and the example of why anonymity should not be tolerated.

Oct 17, 18 1:54 pm

Feel free to look

JBeaumont

I tried. It only shows me the list of your posts back to about halfway through this thread. I'd assume whatever prompted this thread came before you started it, so... that's why I'm asking you.

It isn't just this forum. I'm taking legal action against another forum.

JBeaumont

On the other forum I didn't see anything actionable. Some people called you names and insinuated things about your sanity - but you did the same, at roughly the same frequency. What is there to take legal action against? There's no legal principle that prevents a newspaper from allowing anonymous name-calling. If you've experienced threats as a result of the paper's reporting, or quantifiable damages as a result of libel on their forum, then I'm sure your attorney would have told you to stop posting there and stop discussing it here.

The attorney already took action. I have freedom of speech regarding basically everything.

The actionable items (some of which are itemized in two attorney letters) are in the attorney's hands, sir/madam.


randomised

Where's the freedom of speech if people start using lawyers for archinect posts that could easily be flagged or ignored, class justice anyone?

RickB-Astoria

While I may criticize the douche-baggery that some individuals tend to conduct themselves when anonymous but having to have lawyers for archinect posts takes the cake. I think we all can do better as a whole in our behavioral conduct on the forum regardless of whether we use anonymity or not.

It's called don't be a dick, it's this thing I sometimes promote

RickB-Astoria

In your case, you'd be called a super dick. Why? Because you don't get the idea that the Internet doesn't belong to the United States. If you want to get down to it, you better have a case that you can take up with the International tribunals and international courts because when someone is from Europe calling you an asshole, you can't sue them. It's a federal and international court matters involving not only U.S. but the other person's country. It doesn't pertain to the laws of the State of California unless terms of service explicitly states every member posts and disputes between members are to be held under the jurisdiction of the State of California. What happens is you got easily three different courts of jurisdiction at play. One for each poster and that of the immediate court having jurisdiction over Archinect based on their Los Angeles County location. Who's court is going to be having jurisdiction? Due such a nature as this forum, U.S. federal courts would have jurisdiction. You will have to show actual financial losses not some hypothetical loss due to being humiliated on a forum. You do realize it is unlawful to file frivolous lawsuits as it would be an "abuse of process" and also maybe considered "malicious prosecution" which in many places is considered unlawful and they may come back and sue you for that. Stop being petty. This site probably has to comply with GDPR because of members from the EU. GDPR requires protection of privacy. Considering that virtually all websites are global, GDPR has effect on sites based in the U.S. if they have Europeans on their sites including web forums. The GDPR requires "personal data" of any person of the EU to be protected. 

Links: 

https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/personal-data

and

https://www.itgovernance.eu/blog/en/the-gdpr-what-exactly-is-personal-data

In a sense, a persons name is considered personal data if their name is particularly unique or not common. In which case, you would be subject to the GDPR "personal data" protection. If the name can be clearly linked to a particular person, it must be protected. Henceforth, it is best practice to treat a person's name as "personal data" even if the name is someone common. 

Other data like address and so forth when composited with posted information on a forum can easily ascertain the individual person.


RickB-Astoria

In short, case closed. For even GDPR compliance oriented reasons, this site can not just let that information be public unless they opt to it. I think there is some technical issues regarding GDPR compliance as far as this site is concerned but the allowance of people to create anonymous accounts helps because creating an account with your actual name would have to require opting into disclosure of certain personal data which they have to have control in allowing being displayed. GDPR requirements doesn't stop a person from directly disclosing their identity on a forum within a post they make. However, this forum would be prudent in its international scope to maintain the ability to be anonymous.

randomised

Being a dick is subjective, sending attorneys after someone for posts on archinect is kind of a dick move, that's exactly why people want to post anonymous.

I am using leverage to encourage change. It is a thing people sometimes do.

A forum is a private tool. One signs a user agreement. The user agreement should address this persistent problem.

Users should have to log in with ID.

RickB-Astoria

David Curtis, it is a thing that can get you banned because an owner of a forum is entitled essentially God-level right to do as he or she pleases and can ban anyone as he or she damn well pleases with ABSOLUTELY ZERO LEGAL REPERCUSSION. Why? Internet activity on private sites including private web forums are not regulated (except beyond maybe the scope of the GDPR but that's about it). I've seen people literally banned from website just because they were annoyed by a person telling them how they should change their site. Some will ban you for doing this Mr. Curtis because you are giving unsolicited advice on how they should run their site or forum and they have no interest in changing it to accommodate a "snow flake" like yourself and thus takes offense and bans you. Guess what, there is no legal recourse. You can't justify a loss because you don't pay to have access. As a reasonable person, you would simply move on to some other site if you were banned. Standard of reasonable care applies to every person on every situation. Under situation of X, what would a reasonable prudent person do. Now, we can defined X as "being banned from a web forum". If you didn't pay anything like a subscription, you being banned is not really a financial loss. This forum is meant for personal/private or otherwise non-commercial use. While you may incidentally gain some commercial activities from a web forum, the principle purpose of this forum is not about people using it for commercial gain (aside from the Jobs posting section so general care to avoid banning a business from using the site is something one usually will consider. In this site, with clever coding, you could have your site and they can set things up where posting on the forum itself be terminated yet you have access to other parts of the site or reading. A variety of tools are often available in most web forum software. Again, you being a mere user has no skin in the game to have any legal repercussions if you were banned. On some forums, they pretty much ban people because they were annoying to them or just about any reason.

RickB-Astoria

The point is, it is usually not a good idea telling site owner/admins and moderators how to do their job which is implied when you aggressively expect them to make changes to accommodate your desires against that of others. The concept of legal contract really doesn't apply because it isn't one. Elements of a legally binding contract: 1) Offer to perform an action, 2) Consideration (Remuneration or Compensation or Reward) A reward or compensation of something of value be it cash or other things of intrinsic value (barter), 3) Acceptance, 4) Mutual Understanding of the contractual terms (mutual understanding of what is being agreed to by all parties of the contract. What there maybe is a terms of use agreement but those kinds of agreements are generally "top-down" as in the forum owners sets the terms of use agreement and you either agree and gain access to posting comments or replies or you don't and don't get posting privileges. Usually, those agreements are written in such a way that the site owners reserves all right to banning a user as they seem fit. There is usually ambiguity as to what the admin can do. In other words, for all intents and purposes they are GOD of the website/forum and have unvetted right to do with the forum and users access privileges to the website/forum as they deem.

randomised

"I am using leverage to encourage change. It is a thing people sometimes do."

Well, I'd call it blackmail and it isn't the change I can believe in but the change of Orwellian novels, no thanks, I think I'll pass Big Brother...

I notice that addicts tend not to enjoy being leveraged

Archinect isn't the only site with pending legal problems...

http://www.votedavidcurtis.org...

Oct 17, 18 2:23 pm
JLC-1

why does your page have a question that reads, Do you like this page? but doesn't allow to answer NO?

RickB-Astoria

It's a facebook thinggy. If you don't like, you don't click like. It would be nice to see an answer NO with a list of NOs as well.

I don't know why it has a YES, it probably came with the Nationbuilder template.

Oh it is Mark Zuckerberg widget

RickB-Astoria

Yep it's Zuckerberg's widget.

God love him

Looks like the MarinIJ shut down the comment function five minutes after receiving my phone call and letter...hint hint

Oct 17, 18 2:46 pm
JBeaumont

It seems to still be working for me. Are you sure they didn't just shut down your posting privileges?

RickB-Astoria

Yep, I could, too but there is no reason for me to post. I think JBeaumont might be right.

They shut down one article comments. The latest Dixie article.

RickB-Astoria

Yeah, I think it really had to do with the civility falling apart in the discussion. Even when a person is using a photo of themselves and maybe just their first name, it isn't really all that anonymous if you with relative ease find out who they are.

Personally, I don't want to get involved on that thread.

3rd attorney letter coming up. Like pizzas.

RickB-Astoria

I'm going to make it clear. There is nothing under any rule of law that says people have to use their real name on web forums. If I set up a web forum for Astoria Building Design, LLC. for use in communication activities between employees, business partners, clients, consultants, and other stake holders, we may require the use of real names and other identifying information that may need to appear in profile. HOWEVER, this gets a little uglier when you deal with international scope especially if European Union is in your area of commercial activity. In which case, you may have to comply with the GDPR. In which case, I may have to meet GDPR compliance requirements. 

This site is international and has members on this forum that are in the European Union and the GDPR may have application to this forum and the Archinect website as a whole.

For primer information on GDPR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

There are much more resources out there that gets into the minutae of the requirements GDPR compliance.


Oct 17, 18 3:00 pm

Anyone who interacts with me on Twitter gets sucked into my NationBuilder app where I can decide what to do with them/it. Highly recommend the product. If you are in to shutting down jerk offs.

OK the van is all loaded. See you on the other side.

Godspeed JohnSomething666

Oct 17, 18 3:24 pm
Steeplechase

And now it is clear, this isn't about raising the level of discourse, it is about conforming it to one person's point-of-view.

Oct 17, 18 5:34 pm

It is different things for different sites. The local issue is my family has been threatened so I am identifying the various swell neighbors doing the harassment. But thanks for not being a dick about it. You are great really. Probably licensed too?

Steeplechase

Since other people's situation is not your problem, why should your local issues of which I have no knowledge be my problem?

Perhaps there are no racist labels near you, during a fascist admin...

Steeplechase

Again, why are your issues elsewhere our problem? You’ve offered no actual goal beyond you being more important than others and therefore getting to make others do as you want.

it would help others in that they would have to click the "ignore" button less frequently.

Steeplechase

But you keep saying the problems of others is not your problem.

Sometimes my needs align with the convenience of others

5839

I don't think he even really cares about anybody conforming to his viewpoint. It's more about just generating some buzz, so that people will keep bumping his posts here and elsewhere, and keep visiting his and his wife's sites. They're both local politicians. She's also a lawyer - probably the one churning out nuisance letters to their local paper about the "harassment" they've received in response to their 300+ non-stop posts on the same forum.

Oct 17, 18 6:04 pm

1. "She" isn't posting.

2. Have you ever had a family member abducted? It is not something I recommend.

But be a dick some more to me, and put your name on it. Fucking coward.

randomised

Your post about a family member being abducted could also read as a threat.

JBeaumont

Agreed. That's how I read it. Good thing he put his name on it, so authorities will know who to look for when 5839's family goes missing.

I have had a family member abducted. I don't recommend it.

randomised

Could still read it as a threat.

randomised

The use of the present perfect "I have had" could still indicate an active involvement: My family member was abducted vs. I have had my family member abducted could mean two totally different things.

I'm sorry, it happened in 2010 during my gov campaign. We're all ok.

randomised

Good to know!

If you bother to read, the letters were written by other attorneys. M is a member of the bar in Oregon. We live in California.

She does not practice law in California.

RickB-Astoria

Is that letter being sent to a person in California? However, I am not sure if her activity in writing the letter constitutes practice of law. That is something I'll leave to the California State Bar to interpret if someone filed a complaint.

Sent, received. Posted to District website. 3 in the can, just in case. All the perps are in Cali.

I've previously offered that I do not have intention of suing this website because you anon things are like "family".

RickB-Astoria

David Curtis,

Let us know how things go regarding your AXP hours. 

Oct 19, 18 1:22 am

Pete Senty checked his email. :)

donutsfordough

Seriously, the only reason we even have free reigning discussions online is because we can pretend to be whomever we want. I can be a dick or I can be totally candid and sincere. This concept and practice has long existed online. Why do you think we are even offered avatars and usernames and all that? Because life online is not necessarily inheriting shitty life offline. To be able to define yourself--or not--is liberating.

If it really bugs you so much that I can create five accounts in a minute and toss them all aside like trash, then yeah, just sign off online. Don't bother going to any social platform expecting real identifies because it'll be far worse for all involved. 

Oct 19, 18 3:50 am

good points

donutsfordough

I know you really don't give a fuck about what anyone else thinks but consider this: you rarely see women publicize themselves online because once discovered, they are inundated with so much crap from men. For others, doxxing, swatting, and all that comes from being online is a potential hell. 

Nothing you propose is going to change the fundamental anonymous nature of the net. We're all just IP addresses that can change on a whim or obscured. You might make it less likely for real people to want to participate.

I agree

Non Sequitur

My IP address is set to Tajikistan, but only for Archinect.

shirchai is good today

Go run for a local office. Then perhaps you will relate to the problem.

Oct 19, 18 12:58 pm
JBeaumont

I've run for (and won) local office. But it doesn't help me understand this. It looks like you've spent a lot of time on a local paper's website deliberately antagonizing people - and then getting upset when they do the same back. If you were politely, insistently educating people about the local issues that would be one thing - even if some resist education. But a lot of your comments aren't factual comments about the issue at hand at all - they're just nasty personal shots. I'll grant that for the most part they're excessively-politely-phrased nasty, but I wouldn't say that improves them. 

I don't see what you'd gain by knowing these peoples' names. Yes, some of them might have written things that they might not have if they weren't anonymous. But you've been writing things that are just as bad if not worse than anything anyone anonymous has said - so it's not like you've been put at a disadvantage by their anonymity. I don't view your willingness to put your name on your own comments as admirable or wise. Given the nature of the comments it makes you look immature and temperamental. In my experience that doesn't help in attaining local office.

Well said anon person, taking 0% risk.

JBeaumont

My name is J Beaumont. I will concede it's common enough that googling may or may not turn up the right J Beaumont. The same is true of your name on its own.

Steeplechase

The disadvantage created by anonymity is that it is Harding to take the harassment offline.

Steeplechase

*harder, not Harding

JBeaumont

Yes, and whether that's an advantage or disadvantage lies in whether you're Mr. Curtis or one of the people he's threatening to abduct or whatever.

RickB-Astoria

As long as we have our Jays, Jasons, Josephs, Johns, Jeremies, Jacks, Jacobs, Jakes, etc.

Yes, you may recall a congress woman being shot in the face.

RickB-Astoria

Good reason why I have no desire to run for such political positions in the United States. The country is broken. The people are broken relationships. There is too much polarization and not enough people whose values are more in the center and balanced. Polarized extremists can not negotiate or work with other polarized extremists on the opposite sides. The only logical outcome would be those individuals fighting each other until they reach the point of killing each other. That doesn't do any good us as a country. 

What we need is leadership and that requires leadership that isn't about political parties but about what our country actually needs. Maybe we need a new country. Maybe we become 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 new countries. Not a country of 50 states but smaller independent countries. We need to get out of world politics and re-center our selves to our own needs as a people because you can't help others if you can't help your self. If you neglect yourself, you are in no position to help other. Our country's leadership has neglected the very people who they are suppose to serve.... the people that elected them. There is this big neglect. We have the most extreme version of people who don't give a shit about you or me or any of us now elected and running the shit show we have been seeing. The way things going, leaving this country has been on my mind from time to time albeit not yet to the level and position to do so but there is always that possibility. I'm hoping that we can right this ship. 

Right now, this election is important. We need to get people elected that are not Gingrich-Trump type Republicans and more Democrats and Independents and other parties into Congress to put checks & balance to the POTUS and his administration. I'm okay with there being enough people that are independents and democrats that there would be no political party rubber stamping Trump's desires. This is basically how many dictatorships actually works. This was how Iraq worked under Saddam and others. A party that will just rubber stamp the POTUS at any time is not good. There needs to be a balance.

The entire gov needs to be rebooted. All 3 branches. Hopefully soon-ish. But I suspect we will instead experience much disaster response from the perspective of a police state.

RickB-Astoria

Perhaps but I suspect that the only way we can completely reboot the government is basically going to be a revolutionary war (in this case, a little more like the French revolution because it would be a Revolutionary "Civil War" vs a revolt by a remote group of colonies thousands of miles from the main home land of the nation (then British Empire).

The 1960s "revolution" isn't going to amount to anything because the people we are revolting against is that very generation that  that made that "revolution" in their younger days. These individuals we are fighting against are "turn coats". They once supported the womens' rights and all but now they are opposite of their former selves for what.... political agendas of the party they are members of?

If we lived in a democracy, a constitutional convention would be called. Absent that...

RickB-Astoria

I tried to test a theory about using shift+enter. We live in a republic by the way.

No shit rocket man. 

Captain obvious haiku. 

So two rules 4 u.


RickB-Astoria

I knew a real prick 

who was a real shithead.

He is now a dick.

RickB-Astoria

You forgot the rhyme 

because you would be a fool 

You shall be on time.

RickB-Astoria

The second one wasn't quite a perfect art of haiku. While a rhyme isn't absolutely required but it is used from time to time.

A haiku is best.

When it does not rhyme you see.

This is not a rap.

Suddenly utilizes the "ignore" function.

Oct 19, 18 2:24 pm

Dear JBeaumont, this is the year I stopped tolerating racists. You should try it, it's great. We get to stock up on security guards now.

Oct 19, 18 2:29 pm
JBeaumont

I understand the issue. There are two high schools local to me that have gone through this. The re-namers eventually prevailed in both cases. For one school life has gone on fairly uneventfully (except for the 80k in related signage, stationery, band and sports uniforms, bus and equipment painting, etc.) The other didn't go as smoothly - numerous incidents of threats of violence, stalking, etc. have persisted for 3+ years, including some that involve adults caught harassing children. Your posts read to me as deliberately inviting that kind of behavior - maybe you want to be a victim so that you can feel and appear in the right when you retaliate? Maybe you just feel that you can bring more attention to racism by stirring up more controversy?

5839

$80k? So you'd rather have your kids' school lay off a teacher so they can afford to replace all that stuff just to change the name? Wouldn't it be better to teach children that bad histories can be overwritten with newer more positive associations?

What is $80K? Where did you get that number?

Private money. So no teachers affected. Next question.

5839

I was responding to JBeaumont, not you. He stated 80k. Regardless of the funding source that's just a lesson in waste.

There has been no cost estimate performed. The last time it was attempted, the cost estimate was $7500.

Due to inflation the cost has been speculated at $30K max.

We have the private money. Money is not the reason.

There seems to be no legitimate reason to keep the (negative racist connotation) name of the school DISTRICT. (AKA not a school)

M requested a cost estimate and the other 4 placeholders on the board are trying to sweep it under a rug.

JBeaumont

5839 we got off cheap with 80k in changes. There are schools and districts in other states that have had these name changes cost hundreds of thousands. A big thing for us was vehicles - even with an in-house paint shop it cost almost $2000 per bus exterior. And just endless other items. If you're renaming the district, not the schools, and if the name of the district wasn't on anything except signage and letterhead, then I could see it being significantly less. And yes, in our case it did involve budget cuts - not teachers - the trade-off was the outsourcing of the lunch programs. No more offensive name, but a lot more microwaved chicken nuggets.

5839

JBeaumont you must have a small school or good public transportation. The school district here has hundreds of buses, that would be a fortune. We'd also have to rip up our gym floors and resurface our fields and tear the mosaic murals out of the lobby... Yeah I still think it would be better to overcome the name's past than to waste all that.

Bruce A pulled $30k literally out of his ass. No one knows the cost yet.

RickB-Astoria

Personally, if the people who would be the people that would be offended by such terms finds offense to something then yes I can see name changing. Something similar happen some years ago at Warrenton, Oregon which in my personal opinion was motivated by non-native americans taking offense of the native american used for the mascot and all. If the native americans of the area never found offense to it then what is the issue. If you are either from the southern states that were associated with the Confederates or an immediate descendant (1st to 2nd generation... son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of a person who was born and raised in those states, or you an African-American of direct lineage of those who were slaves and who would take offense to anything associated with Confederate and plantation slavery such as the "Rebel flag" symbols, or you are of direct lineage to someone who was part of the Civil War then you have reasonable right to speak on the matter of removing such symbols and labels. If however, you are NOT of direct lineage of those that were part of the Civil War then you really shouldn't be speaking for or against. You also would have to hold real and reasonable claim that you are irrepairably harmed by the use of such symbols. The point is, if you have nothing to do with the Civil War nor would it reflect harm on you or your family then what the hell claim do you have. Is this just individuals wanting to white-wash the history on a claim not lead by former slaves or descendants of Confederates or otherwise have a legitimate claim of harm? Lets consider some Historical facts. Dixie School District was named after the Dixie Schoolhouse that was built in 1864. There is a historic namesake for the school district that shouldn't be getting anyone bent out of shape over.

There is very little association to the whole Civil War. California at the time wasn't really a major player during the Civil War. It wasn't exactly part of the Union or the Confederates. There were people on both sides of the issue but they were kind of neutral.

Anyway some more specific factoids: 

http://www.dixieschoolhouse.or...


Personally, if the 

 people who would be the people 

that would be offended

(I stopped reading)

Dear White male telling the black people they are imagining things and slavery was ok doke...please shut the fuck up for once you asshole

please shut up for once

you ignorant white male ass

go outside pet cat

RickB-Astoria

First, it wasn't really about the Civil war. The school district wasn't named Dixie School district for support of the Confederacy. It was named after the Dixie Schoolhouse which was one of the early school buildings that has the community holding classes from 1864 to 1958. It was its first school.

RickB-Astoria

Lets not get out bent out of shape for the temporary stupidity of the current regime and is tendency to spiritually support various causes of the old Confederacy because the only assholes today that promotes Confederacy outside the scope of historical education of our past are white supremacist assholes. This doesn't mean we should rename a school district that was named after a building not named to support or sponsor Confederacy.

5839

I don't know who Bruce A is, but if you don't know what it's going to cost yet then how do you know you have sufficient private funds? There are school districts that have spent $500,000 to $1M on changing their names.

Dear four numbers, last time it cost $7500, this time let's say it cost 3x that, even though the district is the same size...in a neighborhood where the houses go for $1.5 million...it isn't a money problem its a I live near people who think racism is not a thing problem...

Watch a movie and stop typing

my racist school district name here

Oct 19, 18 2:31 pm
SneakyPete

Zip seems like a reasonable fella. Wonder why he's so stuck on the name of a school.

nice shirt too

randomised

Aren't there more important things in the world than names of schools? You can also use an outdated name as a reminder of history and as an educational tool for children to learn something. It feels a bit like burning books to me.

Yes, there are more important things. I agree. That is why I agreed the name is a problem. It took me about two seconds to decide that. And here we are two months later...

I suspect you are not a black person living in the United States?

randomised

Nope, I'm not. Are you?

Yes, I'm a black person residing in the US.

curtkram

i feel like i should point this out.  i'm only a nice person online.  in real life i'm an asshole.  sometimes i just need to take a break from being an asshole and act like a decent person, but i don't want people judging me for that.

Oct 19, 18 3:11 pm
citizen

I knew it!

I'm always an asshole, sometimes I refrain from typing

curtkram

You never just get kind of fed up with it all and feel the need to lash out and be nice to someone?

I'm nice to my family members. I'm sometimes nice to the people who write checks. I'm nice to Winona LaDuke.

I'm nicer to animals.

Sometimes my needs align with inconveniencing others.

Oct 20, 18 11:33 am

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