The small firm I work for has 3 licensed architects. It is an LLC with 2 owners (1 is licensed). I am the only architect in the firm with NCARB certification. Recently, the firm has been expanding to do work in other states and I've been called upon to get my reciprocal license in those states in order for the firm to provide architectural services there. I'm now licensed in 5 states, and my role in the firm is Project Architect. Should I expect to receive a pay increase now that I am more valuable to the firm? If I leave the firm, they will be unable to practice in the states that I'm registered in. Is anyone else in a similar situation where they are a non-owner employee with the only license in various states that the firm does business in?
I'm not totally clear on how it works, but my understanding is that it's not enough to have a licensed architect in that state on staff, the firm also needs to be "certified."
I somewhat recently ran into a problem in Illinois, but in this case the principle was licensed there, but hadn't kept up the firm's certification
Dec 14, 17 12:42 pm ·
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T1DArchitect
Most states require that the firm be registered (certified) in the state as well. And the firm I work for has been doing that.
T1D, I may be overly conservative when it comes to these things, but this is what I taught my ProPractice students:
Unless you are a partner in a firm, you never, ever stamp something. Some states - my own, Indiana, included - have *personal* liability for architects, meaning if you get sued they can't just go after the firm as a coporate entity, they can sue you *personally* as a licensed professional.
Not only should you have a pay raise, you should be a partner, so you share both risk and reward. At the moment, in those other states the firm does work in, any liability can fall squarely on YOU, with no corporate protections. Your firm could totally hang you out to dry, though I would hope that wouldn't happen...
Dec 14, 17 1:23 pm ·
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chigurh
agree
Dec 14, 17 1:31 pm ·
·
T1DArchitect
Thank you Donna! I've often wondered if the S**T ever hit the fan in another state, would I be left out to dry or not? I am just in the beginning of my career, so I too tend to be a little conservative to keep my name clean. You mentioned that in Indiana, architects can be sued personally as a licensed professional, regardless of firm affiliation - that's scary. Who do you recommend talking to in order to sort out which states are like Indiana, and how I go about protecting myself? (assuming partnership is off the table)
Dec 14, 17 1:33 pm ·
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chigurh
get professional liability insurance. If you are stamping plans, you are the professional taking liability for the documents regardless of what firm you are working at, thus the partnership prereq. Sounds like you aren't conservative enough, since you are willing to stamp plans without taking the proper precautions or even being aware of the methods to protect yourself. They shouldn't even issue a license to somebody without this knowledge. Probably a 20 something that rushed to get a license without any real world experience to back it up and the firm is just taking advantage.
Dec 14, 17 2:36 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
Damn... so much promise in this discussion then Chigurh had to ruin it with a good one-two reality punch to the nads. Nevertheless, hit it right on the head there.
chigurh is right to recommend insurance. Your firm should carry it, and you should talk to the partners of the firm together with your insurance handler to figure out what the requirements are in each state - they should be able to tell you that info.
Dec 14, 17 3:32 pm ·
·
T1DArchitect
Thank you Donna. Our firm does have professional liability insurance.
I am a 20 something (at least for another year) and I did obtain my initial license early in my career. But we all EARN our licenses after 5 years of school and a thorough 7-part examination, right? Your assumptions on competency are a bit off-base, to say the least. My original post was in regards to additional compensation and looking for similar stories. I have identified the liabilities associated with my particular situation and I'm reaching out (on a professional forum) to get some input. I appreciate your obvious solution to get individual liability insurance, but the rest of your post is not very helpful.
Dec 14, 17 2:51 pm ·
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form follows gumption
"thorough" is generous. The AREs are a joke.
Dec 14, 17 3:58 pm ·
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chigurh
agreed on the AREs - the exams are not a measure of competency and school less so. In regards to your pay increase question I would be curious to know what you are making now stamping plans in various states? 29? This also must have been going on for some time, since each reciprocity is at minimum a couple months long process. The answer is likely yes, you should be making more money and be a partner with the level of responsibility you are assuming in the practice. If they are not willing to give you both, make a lateral move where you will get the money you deserve without the liability (read: do not stamp others plans) Sometimes leaving is the only way to get what you are worth...
Dec 14, 17 6:54 pm ·
·
T1DArchitect
Thank you for the insights chigurh. I am currently considered an Architect 1 (according to the AIA), but as you pointed out, I have licenses in multiple states at 29 years old, which puts me in an interesting position regarding compensation. I’ve actually not stamped anything in other states just yet - we’re chasing leads in those states and felt it necessary to get the licenses before we actually jump into the projects. Based on everyone’s input today, I’ve scheduled a meeting with the partners and our insurance provider to express my concerns. I appreciate all the input!
Dec 14, 17 7:10 pm ·
·
Bloopox
When you talk with the insurer, and afterward with the firm's owners, make sure to consider what happens if you leave the firm. One would assume that while you're employed at this firm the firm may agree to pay for your personal liability insurance. But liability follows you, while any reimbursement that they offer for your personal insurance most likely will stop when you're no longer in their employ. Have you researched the statutes of repose in all these states? There are at least 5 states that have none at all - meaning liability follows you for the rest of your life (and in some cases your estate afterward!) 30 years from now someone falls down the stairs and it's still potentially your problem - and I can speak from experience on that - while there's never been any judgment against me, I've been subpoenaed on things having nothing to do with my work (sometimes things really having nothing to do with architectural services - such as property disputes), years after the project, because my stamp is on drawings. This takes time, travel, etc. to deal with. Some states require that you keep record documents for the rest of your life on any project that you stamp. Make sure you're keeping complete construction set files on all of these projects. Also, have you researched what types of firms can provide architectural services in each of these states (and pursue that work in the first place?) In some states a firm must be owned in part, or in some cases 100%, by architects licensed in that state.
T1DArchitect: That chart is incorrect for one of the states where I do a lot of work (Vermont). Vermont indeed has no statute of repose for architects or engineers (the 6 years in your link applies only to condo projects). Here's a link to an issue brief: https://www.aiavt.org/fileadmi...
We've confirmed with our insurer that our liability extends forever. This has gone to the legislature in Vermont, most recently 2 years ago, and been shot down before it made it to a vote, with help from contractors' organizations.
Given that that one is wrong, I wouldn't count on the info in your link for the other 49 being accurate.
Reciprocal License as Employee of a small firm
The small firm I work for has 3 licensed architects. It is an LLC with 2 owners (1 is licensed). I am the only architect in the firm with NCARB certification. Recently, the firm has been expanding to do work in other states and I've been called upon to get my reciprocal license in those states in order for the firm to provide architectural services there. I'm now licensed in 5 states, and my role in the firm is Project Architect. Should I expect to receive a pay increase now that I am more valuable to the firm? If I leave the firm, they will be unable to practice in the states that I'm registered in. Is anyone else in a similar situation where they are a non-owner employee with the only license in various states that the firm does business in?
I'm not totally clear on how it works, but my understanding is that it's not enough to have a licensed architect in that state on staff, the firm also needs to be "certified."
I somewhat recently ran into a problem in Illinois, but in this case the principle was licensed there, but hadn't kept up the firm's certification
Most states require that the firm be registered (certified) in the state as well. And the firm I work for has been doing that.
An LLC cannot legally offer architectural services in NYS. Check the state board requirements for every state.
Yes - we saw that PLLC's are required. Thanks for the insight.
T1D, I may be overly conservative when it comes to these things, but this is what I taught my ProPractice students:
Unless you are a partner in a firm, you never, ever stamp something. Some states - my own, Indiana, included - have *personal* liability for architects, meaning if you get sued they can't just go after the firm as a coporate entity, they can sue you *personally* as a licensed professional.
Not only should you have a pay raise, you should be a partner, so you share both risk and reward. At the moment, in those other states the firm does work in, any liability can fall squarely on YOU, with no corporate protections. Your firm could totally hang you out to dry, though I would hope that wouldn't happen...
agree
Thank you Donna! I've often wondered if the S**T ever hit the fan in another state, would I be left out to dry or not? I am just in the beginning of my career, so I too tend to be a little conservative to keep my name clean. You mentioned that in Indiana, architects can be sued personally as a licensed professional, regardless of firm affiliation - that's scary. Who do you recommend talking to in order to sort out which states are like Indiana, and how I go about protecting myself? (assuming partnership is off the table)
get professional liability insurance. If you are stamping plans, you are the professional taking liability for the documents regardless of what firm you are working at, thus the partnership prereq. Sounds like you aren't conservative enough, since you are willing to stamp plans without taking the proper precautions or even being aware of the methods to protect yourself. They shouldn't even issue a license to somebody without this knowledge. Probably a 20 something that rushed to get a license without any real world experience to back it up and the firm is just taking advantage.
Damn... so much promise in this discussion then Chigurh had to ruin it with a good one-two reality punch to the nads. Nevertheless, hit it right on the head there.
chigurh is right to recommend insurance. Your firm should carry it, and you should talk to the partners of the firm together with your insurance handler to figure out what the requirements are in each state - they should be able to tell you that info.
Thank you Donna. Our firm does have professional liability insurance.
that doesn't mean your stamp is covered by it.
I am a 20 something (at least for another year) and I did obtain my initial license early in my career. But we all EARN our licenses after 5 years of school and a thorough 7-part examination, right? Your assumptions on competency are a bit off-base, to say the least. My original post was in regards to additional compensation and looking for similar stories. I have identified the liabilities associated with my particular situation and I'm reaching out (on a professional forum) to get some input. I appreciate your obvious solution to get individual liability insurance, but the rest of your post is not very helpful.
"thorough" is generous. The AREs are a joke.
agreed on the AREs - the exams are not a measure of competency and school less so. In regards to your pay increase question I would be curious to know what you are making now stamping plans in various states? 29? This also must have been going on for some time, since each reciprocity is at minimum a couple months long process. The answer is likely yes, you should be making more money and be a partner with the level of responsibility you are assuming in the practice. If they are not willing to give you both, make a lateral move where you will get the money you deserve without the liability (read: do not stamp others plans) Sometimes leaving is the only way to get what you are worth...
Thank you for the insights chigurh. I am currently considered an Architect 1 (according to the AIA), but as you pointed out, I have licenses in multiple states at 29 years old, which puts me in an interesting position regarding compensation. I’ve actually not stamped anything in other states just yet - we’re chasing leads in those states and felt it necessary to get the licenses before we actually jump into the projects. Based on everyone’s input today, I’ve scheduled a meeting with the partners and our insurance provider to express my concerns. I appreciate all the input!
When you talk with the insurer, and afterward with the firm's owners, make sure to consider what happens if you leave the firm. One would assume that while you're employed at this firm the firm may agree to pay for your personal liability insurance. But liability follows you, while any reimbursement that they offer for your personal insurance most likely will stop when you're no longer in their employ. Have you researched the statutes of repose in all these states? There are at least 5 states that have none at all - meaning liability follows you for the rest of your life (and in some cases your estate afterward!) 30 years from now someone falls down the stairs and it's still potentially your problem - and I can speak from experience on that - while there's never been any judgment against me, I've been subpoenaed on things having nothing to do with my work (sometimes things really having nothing to do with architectural services - such as property disputes), years after the project, because my stamp is on drawings. This takes time, travel, etc. to deal with. Some states require that you keep record documents for the rest of your life on any project that you stamp. Make sure you're keeping complete construction set files on all of these projects. Also, have you researched what types of firms can provide architectural services in each of these states (and pursue that work in the first place?) In some states a firm must be owned in part, or in some cases 100%, by architects licensed in that state.
Thank you for the recommendations, Bloopox. I did not determine the statutes of repose in each state, but I did find firm registration requirements per state here: http://www.maslon.com/webfiles/MiscArticles/50-state_Survey_of_Design_Firm_Licensure_1st_ed_Jan_2015.pdf
Here's statute of repose per state: https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/statute-of-limitations-for-all-50-states.pdf
T1DArchitect: That chart is incorrect for one of the states where I do a lot of work (Vermont). Vermont indeed has no statute of repose for architects or engineers (the 6 years in your link applies only to condo projects). Here's a link to an issue brief: https://www.aiavt.org/fileadmi...
We've confirmed with our insurer that our liability extends forever. This has gone to the legislature in Vermont, most recently 2 years ago, and been shot down before it made it to a vote, with help from contractors' organizations.
Given that that one is wrong, I wouldn't count on the info in your link for the other 49 being accurate.
Thank you, 5839!
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