hey guys, i had to do a site visit to create a Reflected ceiling plan of a gutted out building. all i had was basically a tape measure.
-for the next time, to save time/pain, i was wondering how you make ACCURATE measurements of a ceiling plan.
Also, to make things worse, most of the ceiling was of irregular ductwork/piping, and without a ceiling grid to work with.. to make things even more worse, the entire building has non-square (intentionally) structural walls. nor do columns match up.. ahhhh....
1) i believe either plaster or hard-coating type material--no markings on surface, just plain white
2) there are a few different changes in elevation, usually due to hiding of the buildings beams--it is rather arbitrary though (i.e. certain irregular (but rectilinear) planes are depressed, or beams that have been covered (but no rhythm apparant from the covered beams)
3) there IS a structural grid of columns, however, the building itself has angled walls (the street that it lies on is angled but within a city grid (i.e. broadway in NYC). Also the particular area of the building that we are changing is at an angled corner of the structure, thus, the regular column grid begins to shift; it rather randomly angles and barely lines up with the walls.
4)no documentation about the bldg known...of course that would be too easy.
IF you have no idea,, the biggest questoin is how do you accurately measure draw hanging ductwork going on within a ceiling without a grid... its hard to eyeball the exact locations/distance from edges of walls (i need to be accurate)
if you want to know, the building plan looks rather like a parallelogram trying to become a trapezoid...at least i think the elevator cores are square with one of the walls....
Is the building envelope already documented and you just need to locate the ducts, lights, ceiling elevation changes, sprinkler heads, pipes... or do you need everything including the envelope?
Having completed quite a few existing building surveys, I would suggest the following.
1. Good stiff Tape Measure at least 30ft
2. 100ft tape.
3. Laser Level ( so you can set up a level plane from which to measure vertically up or down. To learn the irregularities of the floor or ceiling.)
4. Laser pen light. ( so you can lay your tape along the floor and by moving the laser along the tape spot dimension, centerline or edges of whatever your locating.)
5.Something to allow you to measure the arc of inside and outside angles. I use a tool I found at a garage sale. its a 6" scale, when folded, and opens up to a 12" scale. However, at the fold, there is a protractor, that is revealed when it is opened up.
6. A good long screw driver to probe any wood structure, to determin its condition. i.e. termites, dryrot, etc.
7. Also, in order to findout what you need to know to alter or renovate, sometimes you just have to demo small portions of wall or ceiling.
Just a view items I use on my building surveys. Hope it helps.
-digital camera. take photos of the tape measure up against something for scale of for complex situations (eg brick coursing or trim moulding)
-ladder
-a very good flashlight
-a writing surface like a clipboard or one of those very large art type clip boards we all used in our udergrad drawing classes.
i can't believe you don't have any type of documentation, even a beat up set of plans from the building department. those should have been entered into CAD and now you're field verifying to make sure what you drew is accurate. accuracy of a good base drawing is paramount.
also, don't expect to complete everything you need in one visit. i had a team of four people (2 two-person teams working separately) over three days for a building i verified and we had extensive drawings from which to start from.
take lots of photos. you can't take too many. just make sure you review them before you move onto the next one because if you can't read it in the field, you'll have no idea what it was about in the office. i've gone as far as having a photo log for my photos as well as a location plan for said photos.
and another thing is bring lots of copies of any drawings you do have and lots of paper to sketch/ write on. you will probably need a floor plan to mark up for dimensions and another to markup for materials and another for ceiling items, etc.
Note: I have this device, it can store and transfer up to 1000 mesurements from the device to an excel file. Also it will help you figure out angles, plenum heights, pathagoras, and a countless amount of math. It will pay fro itself on the first job believe me.
You'll need a thin rope, a ladder, some tape, a measuring tape, a compass, pencil, piece of paper and some other guy (optional, but saves time).
The rope should be long enough to measure the longest diagonal in the room and non elastic. Graduate it every meter with some coloured tape to facilitate the measuring, attach a weight to one end.
Start by marking on the ground the vertical to the points you need from the ceiling (axis of pipes, sprinklers... that guy will do a lot a climbing today!), measure heights. Don't forget to measure anything you might need as long as that guy is up there (diameter of the pipes, for example).
Once you have all these points marked on the ground (and not stuck to your shoes), the other guy can go and you can begin the triangulation work.
Elect a wall as your reference, check that it's really straight (is it parallel to the rope?). Firmly tape (nail it if you can) one end of the rope in a corner and with it, measure all that you can from that point: length of walls, diagonal of the room, distance of your 'ceiling marks' to that corner, columns, doors etc...
Get the missing coordinates from the opposite corner of the reference wall.
Now, you can already draw a good plan, reporting your mesures with the compass. For better accuracy, do that again from a third corner, and the last one too if you are a maniac.
Actually, if that other guy had stayed, had a laptop and could use CAD, your job would be over by now...
first draw the plan,
don't draw each of the the repetitious elements. measure overall dimensions, measure a couple of diagonals for checking the plan layout.
locate structural (rafters,beams etc.) and try to understand it.
if you know what kind a project being developed, prioritize locating elements that will be important to new project.
locate main electrical box, mechanical equip.,fire sprinklers if any, ducts and units feeding them, gas lines,important ceiling ht's, toilet and other plumbing locations,light fixtures,window locations etc.,take a lot of pictures.
i am sure i forgat bunch of things but get the fuck outa there without getting obsessive. you have enough to draw and if something is not clear and needs to be looked at it, go back.
it ain't parisian size apt., but all the same, as built. this might be even better for you to learn whats important.
not everything has to be dead on.
document \structural,mechanical and electrical consequently and take your time. it is great to do with someone else for speed.
site visit (RCP)
hey guys, i had to do a site visit to create a Reflected ceiling plan of a gutted out building. all i had was basically a tape measure.
-for the next time, to save time/pain, i was wondering how you make ACCURATE measurements of a ceiling plan.
Also, to make things worse, most of the ceiling was of irregular ductwork/piping, and without a ceiling grid to work with.. to make things even more worse, the entire building has non-square (intentionally) structural walls. nor do columns match up.. ahhhh....
I can help you out.
1) What type of Ceiling is it? Please give type of material.
2) Is there changes in elevation? Meaning, are there different clg. heights.
3)Are you sure there is no structural grid of columns?
3) Doesn't the city archive this information about built environments?
4) sorry
haha sounds sad doesnt it?
1) i believe either plaster or hard-coating type material--no markings on surface, just plain white
2) there are a few different changes in elevation, usually due to hiding of the buildings beams--it is rather arbitrary though (i.e. certain irregular (but rectilinear) planes are depressed, or beams that have been covered (but no rhythm apparant from the covered beams)
3) there IS a structural grid of columns, however, the building itself has angled walls (the street that it lies on is angled but within a city grid (i.e. broadway in NYC). Also the particular area of the building that we are changing is at an angled corner of the structure, thus, the regular column grid begins to shift; it rather randomly angles and barely lines up with the walls.
4)no documentation about the bldg known...of course that would be too easy.
IF you have no idea,, the biggest questoin is how do you accurately measure draw hanging ductwork going on within a ceiling without a grid... its hard to eyeball the exact locations/distance from edges of walls (i need to be accurate)
if you want to know, the building plan looks rather like a parallelogram trying to become a trapezoid...at least i think the elevator cores are square with one of the walls....
oh my why me.
just bust the project out and stop whnning already.
tru that. but i like to learn the tricks if there are any~ its cuz i never really did site measurements before.
Is the building envelope already documented and you just need to locate the ducts, lights, ceiling elevation changes, sprinkler heads, pipes... or do you need everything including the envelope?
everything
Having completed quite a few existing building surveys, I would suggest the following.
1. Good stiff Tape Measure at least 30ft
2. 100ft tape.
3. Laser Level ( so you can set up a level plane from which to measure vertically up or down. To learn the irregularities of the floor or ceiling.)
4. Laser pen light. ( so you can lay your tape along the floor and by moving the laser along the tape spot dimension, centerline or edges of whatever your locating.)
5.Something to allow you to measure the arc of inside and outside angles. I use a tool I found at a garage sale. its a 6" scale, when folded, and opens up to a 12" scale. However, at the fold, there is a protractor, that is revealed when it is opened up.
6. A good long screw driver to probe any wood structure, to determin its condition. i.e. termites, dryrot, etc.
7. Also, in order to findout what you need to know to alter or renovate, sometimes you just have to demo small portions of wall or ceiling.
Just a view items I use on my building surveys. Hope it helps.
i would add to that:
-digital camera. take photos of the tape measure up against something for scale of for complex situations (eg brick coursing or trim moulding)
-ladder
-a very good flashlight
-a writing surface like a clipboard or one of those very large art type clip boards we all used in our udergrad drawing classes.
i can't believe you don't have any type of documentation, even a beat up set of plans from the building department. those should have been entered into CAD and now you're field verifying to make sure what you drew is accurate. accuracy of a good base drawing is paramount.
also, don't expect to complete everything you need in one visit. i had a team of four people (2 two-person teams working separately) over three days for a building i verified and we had extensive drawings from which to start from.
take lots of photos. you can't take too many. just make sure you review them before you move onto the next one because if you can't read it in the field, you'll have no idea what it was about in the office. i've gone as far as having a photo log for my photos as well as a location plan for said photos.
and another thing is bring lots of copies of any drawings you do have and lots of paper to sketch/ write on. you will probably need a floor plan to mark up for dimensions and another to markup for materials and another for ceiling items, etc.
Alfredocheese,
You need three things:
1. Mechanical pencil
2. White copy paper
3. http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-13387
Note: I have this device, it can store and transfer up to 1000 mesurements from the device to an excel file. Also it will help you figure out angles, plenum heights, pathagoras, and a countless amount of math. It will pay fro itself on the first job believe me.
4) Oh yeah.....and lost of time
Hi.
this is how I do it:
You'll need a thin rope, a ladder, some tape, a measuring tape, a compass, pencil, piece of paper and some other guy (optional, but saves time).
The rope should be long enough to measure the longest diagonal in the room and non elastic. Graduate it every meter with some coloured tape to facilitate the measuring, attach a weight to one end.
Start by marking on the ground the vertical to the points you need from the ceiling (axis of pipes, sprinklers... that guy will do a lot a climbing today!), measure heights. Don't forget to measure anything you might need as long as that guy is up there (diameter of the pipes, for example).
Once you have all these points marked on the ground (and not stuck to your shoes), the other guy can go and you can begin the triangulation work.
Elect a wall as your reference, check that it's really straight (is it parallel to the rope?). Firmly tape (nail it if you can) one end of the rope in a corner and with it, measure all that you can from that point: length of walls, diagonal of the room, distance of your 'ceiling marks' to that corner, columns, doors etc...
Get the missing coordinates from the opposite corner of the reference wall.
Now, you can already draw a good plan, reporting your mesures with the compass. For better accuracy, do that again from a third corner, and the last one too if you are a maniac.
Actually, if that other guy had stayed, had a laptop and could use CAD, your job would be over by now...
ahhhh... 'building'! I was thinking parisian sized apartment... right: get one of these laser thingies !
how big is the place?
first draw the plan,
don't draw each of the the repetitious elements. measure overall dimensions, measure a couple of diagonals for checking the plan layout.
locate structural (rafters,beams etc.) and try to understand it.
if you know what kind a project being developed, prioritize locating elements that will be important to new project.
locate main electrical box, mechanical equip.,fire sprinklers if any, ducts and units feeding them, gas lines,important ceiling ht's, toilet and other plumbing locations,light fixtures,window locations etc.,take a lot of pictures.
i am sure i forgat bunch of things but get the fuck outa there without getting obsessive. you have enough to draw and if something is not clear and needs to be looked at it, go back.
it ain't parisian size apt., but all the same, as built. this might be even better for you to learn whats important.
not everything has to be dead on.
document \structural,mechanical and electrical consequently and take your time. it is great to do with someone else for speed.
and consider yourself to be the first one on the crime seen.
woah, thanks guys... the rope method seems the best way based on circumstance. also need a laser beam! lasers.... yes....
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