I want to make more money. Now. I have a MArch as well as a ivy league B.A. I make very poor money at at an architecture firm one year out of school. I can't wait years to make any money (and judging from the salary poll, it still sucks) What options are out there for people like us? What are job opportunities in other or related fields for persons with an architecturual education and experience where you can actually make good money right now? Thanks in advance. (and you can skip the "funny" posts if you are going to write one)
The only way you'll make money staying in architecture is to either gain seniority in a profitable firm or start your own profitable firm.
Something seems a little off in your thinking and/or attitude. Is your only motivation money, and why 'can't you wait years' to make any money? What is "good money"? Does your current income prevent you from being happy? Will more disposable income make you happier, or will you always be wanting more?
I'm not sure how you can achieve this quick conversion into 'making good money'. Maybe switch fields to law or computer game design, or go platinum with a teen-pop record.
just dont want to spend years living paycheck to paycheck, its awful. trying to see if there is anything else i can use my education and experience to make a better living right now.
Didn't we tell you to drop out years ago?
If all you want is Money...,This sure is not the Profession.
So you might as well go smoke your fucking IVY league Diploma!
So go sell Real-Estate or work on the street you Whore.
It's not that money is the only driving force, I know for myself, I got into Architecture because I enjoy it. But it's difficult not to get bogged down and concerned with the unfortunate salary situation. As a student still completing his undergrad, it's frustrating and upsetting to think that I have 3 1/2 more years of school left (MArc) and I have $40 000 (on avg) to look forward to. Then I look at my friends who are roughly the same age as me, who make 6 figures in finance. But that's the nature of the industry, I knew it when I started.
I don't think it's possible to make money in architecture, unless you build Med Villa's for millions. Even the top people in large firms don't make much, relatively, and certainly won't every be 'rich'.
I am with you, though, and I've found other things to do. The gratification, to me, is just not there.
So if you want to make at least a little to save look at ways of bringing you design skills into other fields. Business is one, development/realesate, etc. Learn as much about these other fields while you can, you'll find there is never any time unless you make time for it, in school or not. At least in school you can make your own schedule.
I don't think it is fair to call someone a whore because they are broke and are asking how to earn a higher income. As I have stated here before why do we feel so uncombfortable when it comes to money? The money is out there, we should take it or someone else will. We should not be ashamed if we want to make both great buildings and a profitable business. The more we neglect the financial realities the more we are designing ourselves into irrelevance in todays economy leaving the building industry in the hands of bottom feeding developers and contractors.
i think it is possible to make extra money in this profession, it's called side work and second or third job.
lots people right out of have hellish loans to pay off, so i can understand feeling like you need to be making more, but i think the only way to really overcome that it by living frugally and working your ass off.
i'd say work as a consultant...you can write more things off
and you'll get a better hourly rate than you're getting now..
the problem will be that you don't have enough experience...
if you know how to make 3d models you should try to work
it...computer and otherwise...people will pay good money
for that kind of work.
other options i've been thinking of is creating a product,
finding a nich market, and selling into it...have a small
inventory, or one that can be easily stocked and produce
as you sell. i think something that makes money on it's
own is key...
I would like to say you will at least get $50,000/year after you have 5 years experience, then things will go up very quickly. Some guys at Gensler got very high pay.
did you know you can harvest your eggs up to five times?!
i got an application to do so when i had first graduated and no job, back in the day when i was getting money for donating plasma. (another option for extra ca$h) i've been too busy and not really needed to follow up since then, but even though it takes a lot of time and physical strain to harvest your eggs, i think it is a totally viable option though. you know, if your ethics go that way.
This thread has taken a very strange left turn...Here I expected to read lots of advice about real estate, development, 3d graphics, or software development for c_ty and we get to plasma donations and selling of eggs?
are you leaving your current job for better/ more design opportunities? more money/ benefits? laid off? changing careers? where are you going? where are you currently?
All this talk about being poor...and making little money is a little tired. Sure I don't make the same amount of money as a other comparable people in other professions, but many of them don't have the perks Architects have. To start off we are in a creative profession which you should enjoy, and from reading these discussions the past 4+ years everyone is pretty well traveled...enjoy the finer things in life. Most of my friends in these other "professions" earning 2-3 times what I make don't have the time to enjoy their life.
But getting back to the original question: How to make money? hell if there was an easy answer I would not be working...at the end of the day you have to be smart with your $$ and creative with your carreer path. Some purist may not like this, but there is alot of money on the developer side. I know Architects that turned to that post licensing and have done very well for themselves. You can also be a developer whore for a little while, and make enough money to get you secure enough where you can practice "real" architecture...and not have to worry abot the next paycheck. Some young architects go work for a starchitect for a year or so for no $$ and move to a large corp. firm as a designer making good $$. Hop firms for a few years, typically increasing your salary by 15+ % each time. Only drawback is it may catch up with you eventually (employers pay attention to this and you may hit a wall). If you are good with 3d modelling, or for that matter physical models, there is a market for this out there. Both in the Arch. and development side. I met an architect who worked for the NTSB doing plane crash video simulations...
I'll try to think of some more.
Good points J3... I'll admit that I complain all the time about my lack of pay. Then again I've voyaged all over the world where as my friends easily making 2-3 times what I do haven't been to anyplace more exotic than a Mexican all-inclusive resort. Also, as much a pain in the ass my job might get at the end of the day I go home feeling like I'm making a difference. I may not agree with every client and/or building but at least I'm not selling my soul to make a buck.
Oh and marry rich. One of my favourite co-workers married a doctor and he quit years ago. Has lunch with him a few months ago. He picked me up in his new Range Rover...he also bought my lunch. I was happy.
Honestly, 95 percent of persons in architecture feel they don't make enough. One partner in I firm I worked for, had a second company that did design/ build Landscape work. He is a very good architect but knew that the dollars coming in from his other company was too good to pass up. He Spent 90% of his time doing landscape design.
I did some architectural metal work ie custom handrails for residences
picked up some good money. I like to build furniture, so every now and then I would build a piece for someone. Also,I had other drafting and design work outside the office. My town is small so it didn't take long for word to spread. It kills your free time so be prepared to work alot for awhile.
If you have other talent/skills it's not hard to make additional money just aliitle effort.
Wait for your Rich Mommy and Daddy to Die you IVY SCUM.
If you need money quick get a 12 gauge shotgun and go Mendez.
Fuckin scum like you make me sick.
Development is definitely the easiest $ making profession to slip into from architecture, but the way any professional makes money, is to bring IN the money, and Share the risk.
There is a Medical School joke that goes something like:
Q: what do you call the lowest paid graduate in your medical school class?
A: Doctor
In larger architecture firms, if you are bringing in the clients, there is opportunity to make a ton of money. You also put yourself in a position to make a ton of money if you are assuming some of the risk, which means being an owner.
However, your question is about the here an now, and it's unlikley you will get that kind of promotion within 5 years...
A previous employer (architect) started a wood stair business. The company does 10m in work a year. I don't know what that leaves him after all expenses, but I am sure that it's more than 1/2 mil a year. If you have interest in a particular niche within the construction industry, that could make you "rich".
I wanted to make more money, quit my job & started my own firm. I made less this year than I did at my first job right out of school. My perspective on the industry is that it is very difficult to make good money (in comparison to other "professions"). You either have to work at or own a large firm, or be in some niche like high-end custom residential or development. And despite all the talk on archinect about becoming a developer, it's not something you can just do, especially if you are in a location with high labor/materials/land and insurance etc. costs (like southern california). It takes a LOT of money and a company that has been around for a while with good credit, not too mention it is quite risky financially.
y younger brother just passed the bar, and is making $75,000 right out of school, working from home 3 days a week for a small firm. That is considered LOW. It is seriously making me wonder whether I made the right decision. I love design, I love working with clients and seeing things built, but I also want to have kids, more than a one bedroom house, and maybe take a vacation someday.
After several years, you should make enough to live on. You'll be able to pay rent, maybe buy a used car. But it's hard not to want more for all the hard work you put in, and the amount of stress and responsibility you face. And don't believe people who say "architects just need to demand more money", haha. I am on the front lines and I can tell you most people already have extremely unrealistic expectations about what it costs to build custom designed work, or put together a proper set of construction documents for a permit set. They are not going to pay 25 or 25% for an architect.
or 10-12%.i get a few people from 75 to 150K budgets wanting and wanting.
you are in the middle of bill paying. and you take a small job. now, a lot of people consider 10K is big money to pay someone to design and get a permit, if they only have 75K to begin with. so, you charge 5-6 thousand to the room expansion, take a wall or two out, re-do floors etc. in return they give you pretty much freedom to realize your ideas.
i saw these architects website, altough i am not judging the work, they had a very clear and professional descriptions on client's responsibilities and theirs. (likely out of architects handbook). but it somehow presented them in a very professional manner and made their potential clients aware what architects do and why they charge the things they charge and how much more they might charge and why.
i agree with RAR on her snapshot of the frontlines in los angeles.
but i would like to be like those guys in above web site so i can take tina ona nice vacation.
online poker, seriously, I whatched rounders for the first time 6 months ago, bought a book on internet poker, followed the rules presented in the book to a tee and have made $3500 over the past semester in my spare time, its really not that hard, most of the people you play against online are complete dumbasses
Trying to make money just doing architecture is probably any architect's first mistake. Now that I think about it there are lots of architect's in my area that have their hand in some other aspect of the business. Design/build. Construction management. Development. I remember one architect who risk some big dollars back in the eightys to get a valet service up and running at a local mall. The gimmick was that the whole system of communication was based off of satellites. This was before cell phones and high end two- way radios. Needless to say that the whole thing tanked in about 6 months
So unless your a starchitect, it's the norm to be unable to make a decent living doing just architecture. Starchitects most likely suffered for a period of time before they got noticed.
BOTS - I believe there is some exaggeration here but you have to admit that solely working in architecture will not afford the same standard of living that other equally educated professions will. We do work in a high stress, low pay field - yet I wouldn't trade what I do for anything that my higher paid friends are doing. It's a labour of love and if that means I cannot realize my dream of owning a summer home in Majorca, so be it.
I do agree that most of the public is oblivious as to what design costs. These days it seems it's tough to get a 7-8% fee. And it doesn't help when somehow the rumor spread that architects are rich. I absolutely hate hearing that.
The low pay in architecture is the fault of your fellow professional colleagues. The profession is structured around values of interest only to itself.
If architects want to make money then the profession as a whole needs to reorient itself to that end.
has anyone ever lost a potential job as a result of asking for more money? i don't mean with a client, but, like, as an intern, or as an architect/designer employed by somebody.
how do architect's pay compare to that of industriial or graphic designers? i dont care if that is an appropriate comparison, i'm jst curious.
I asked for more money at one office which was not paying me much (compared to an informal survey i did of friends at the time, i was at the bottom)... they did give me a 10% raise, but then laid me off along with 6 other people a few months later. I'm not sure if my asking for more money had to do with it, or the fact that I made it clear I did not want to work on week-ends or after 7 most of the time (it was a smallish starchitects office). They did call me back about two weeks after letting me go and asked if I wanted to work hourly. I already had 2 job offers for a lot more money and said no thanks. More or less the same thing happened at the office I worked in before that - asked for a raise but got laid off a month later instead. But it was a one person office and I know he had no work. I would say if the office is in a tenous financial position it might flag you as someone to get rid of because they may think you will be leaving soon anyway. But if the office is doing weel and they like your work it should be fine.
Also - for anyone interested - we charge 15% on design only jobs, and 10% on design/build (though we need to increase that to 15% or so...). This is more or less enough to complete the job, but we don't make a whole lot of profit on design, and in fact tend to loose money on the small jobs. As mentioned above, we are learning that even a $100,000 construction budget is not enough in most cases - we make very little money on it. And if something goes wrong and we have to eat it, our profit margin is so lim that we make nothing. I now truly understand why no one wants to do small jobs, and it is unfortunate. But I spend the same amount of time in meetings and picking out materials on a $75K job as on an $800K job, so obviously if given the opportunity I'll take the larger jobs. I would not be surprised if residential architecture for the single family homeowner no longer exists in 30 years (except for the very rich)...
Architects only participate in less than 2% of residential jobs as it is.
I learned a lot teaching with Joe Tanney of Resolution 4, designers of the Dwell House. I'm now a believer in prefab as a design solution for architects interested in housing. The more I learn about it, the more intriguing it gets. It makes it possible for architects to increase our involvement in house design instead of disappearing from it altogether.
It also gives Resolution 4 something to sell - and the potential to make a lot of money - now that they've figured out how their 'modern modular' can be simultaneously prefab and custom and how to work to the standards of the manufacturing industry.
I agree that this seems intriguing, although my bias at this point is that you are severely limiting the options you give the client, even if there is some "customization" built into the process. If this is the wave of the future, I fear it will also result in the dwindling of architects who actually get to design for residential to almost none - just my intuition about how markets work (not that I really know, but based on how single family home construction works out here, tract homes and all). You may end up with a few companies doing something modern and decent, but you'll also have a lot of "cheaper, with granite countertops and traditional details too!". It would seem to me that making this work in a place like Los Angeles, where every building component must be pre-approved by the city and tested to receive a research report number (this takes time & costs $$), will mean that only very well-funded companies would be able to make it work. I know some people are trying to do pre-fab stuff out here, but they are basically using profab trailers (the same ones schools use) and then trying to add nicer windows and paneling on the outside. We recently did a bid for a job like that, and I think it came out to $200/sq.ft. more or less. They were going to hire a contractor for the installation who does only that, and have us do the finish work. For that cost, they will be getting something that doesn't really fit on the site, and is a rectangle with some cheap windows and flooring. Seems like it would be better to have something truly custom...
i don't think that prefab houses are going to greatly reduce the
market for architects..i think it does the opposite actually...
and it's not a new concept...usonian houses for example...
developer's already do prefab houses without architectural
involvement...i think resolution's prefab house actual gives
architect's the potential to break into their market not the
other way around...
i sort of agree with the prediction of diminishing residential architecture (as we know it) in next decades to come. small pocket markets will remain, but big chunk of the work will be taken over by .. well, maybe prefab technology, densification of cities thus multi family housing, lumber yards and real estate agengies providing design service or even GM, BMW, Toyota getting into dwelling manufacturing.
los angeles single family housing stock is avarage 50-60 years old and most of them will expire in 20 years or so. in most cases it is already cheaper to demo the old house and build a new one in its place. land is worthy but a lot of houses are not. empty lots are rare and expensive.
los angeles has a lively market for remodeling jobs for now, due to low interest rates and people getting improvement loans. once this trend ends, because of change in the economy, a lot of architects will fold or greatly reduce their operations. i saw that happened in late 80's and early 90's. it is not a pretty picture.
building is an expensive business. even the meager budgets can buy several cars paid in cash.
ultimetly, we must be prepared to make continious adjustments to our market driven pay levels. our product is not inflation proof.
try to charge the highest you can get when the market is alive and be able to ride the economic down turns with minimum demage to your set up and well being. there will be always starchi-tects, but just imagine what percentage of the profession they are representing. % .1? chances are slim to get there (not based on your talent) and enjoy the sex and drugs while you are interwieved by new york times on your latest creation.
i might have a hard time to contain myself when i hear some fengshui consultant walked away with 7-8 K in three visits to somebody's house and the project might come to a halt because of change in stair location (didn't happened just yet but i saw it happened to some friends). architecture has been so protective of itself that most of us see doing anything else as prostitution.architecture is penetrated by many professions and educational backgrounds because supposingly it seats on top of huge construction sector where there is a lot money. but architects has lost their place in their own turf and turn into technical design provider geeks and hold against a lot of liability for low fee's.
i can rant more but the point is already made before me as well.
and damn the hgtv type of shows that depicts our services and craft in half our completed projects. so fun, so free..
ironically i think working at a good design firm
probably limits your sleep at night...or at least
your time in bed, at home or anywhere but the firm...
Dec 7, 04 4:52 pm ·
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how to make more money?
I want to make more money. Now. I have a MArch as well as a ivy league B.A. I make very poor money at at an architecture firm one year out of school. I can't wait years to make any money (and judging from the salary poll, it still sucks) What options are out there for people like us? What are job opportunities in other or related fields for persons with an architecturual education and experience where you can actually make good money right now? Thanks in advance. (and you can skip the "funny" posts if you are going to write one)
The only way you'll make money staying in architecture is to either gain seniority in a profitable firm or start your own profitable firm.
Something seems a little off in your thinking and/or attitude. Is your only motivation money, and why 'can't you wait years' to make any money? What is "good money"? Does your current income prevent you from being happy? Will more disposable income make you happier, or will you always be wanting more?
I'm not sure how you can achieve this quick conversion into 'making good money'. Maybe switch fields to law or computer game design, or go platinum with a teen-pop record.
just dont want to spend years living paycheck to paycheck, its awful. trying to see if there is anything else i can use my education and experience to make a better living right now.
My God Son
Didn't we tell you to drop out years ago?
If all you want is Money...,This sure is not the Profession.
So you might as well go smoke your fucking IVY league Diploma!
So go sell Real-Estate or work on the street you Whore.
It's not that money is the only driving force, I know for myself, I got into Architecture because I enjoy it. But it's difficult not to get bogged down and concerned with the unfortunate salary situation. As a student still completing his undergrad, it's frustrating and upsetting to think that I have 3 1/2 more years of school left (MArc) and I have $40 000 (on avg) to look forward to. Then I look at my friends who are roughly the same age as me, who make 6 figures in finance. But that's the nature of the industry, I knew it when I started.
I don't think it's possible to make money in architecture, unless you build Med Villa's for millions. Even the top people in large firms don't make much, relatively, and certainly won't every be 'rich'.
I am with you, though, and I've found other things to do. The gratification, to me, is just not there.
So if you want to make at least a little to save look at ways of bringing you design skills into other fields. Business is one, development/realesate, etc. Learn as much about these other fields while you can, you'll find there is never any time unless you make time for it, in school or not. At least in school you can make your own schedule.
I don't think it is fair to call someone a whore because they are broke and are asking how to earn a higher income. As I have stated here before why do we feel so uncombfortable when it comes to money? The money is out there, we should take it or someone else will. We should not be ashamed if we want to make both great buildings and a profitable business. The more we neglect the financial realities the more we are designing ourselves into irrelevance in todays economy leaving the building industry in the hands of bottom feeding developers and contractors.
i think it is possible to make extra money in this profession, it's called side work and second or third job.
lots people right out of have hellish loans to pay off, so i can understand feeling like you need to be making more, but i think the only way to really overcome that it by living frugally and working your ass off.
c_ty,
i'd say work as a consultant...you can write more things off
and you'll get a better hourly rate than you're getting now..
the problem will be that you don't have enough experience...
if you know how to make 3d models you should try to work
it...computer and otherwise...people will pay good money
for that kind of work.
other options i've been thinking of is creating a product,
finding a nich market, and selling into it...have a small
inventory, or one that can be easily stocked and produce
as you sell. i think something that makes money on it's
own is key...
I would like to say you will at least get $50,000/year after you have 5 years experience, then things will go up very quickly. Some guys at Gensler got very high pay.
That, of course, depends where you are. I don't know what the norms are in LA, and I don't know where jlx is.
Out here in the heartland you MIGHT get 50K after 10 yrs (not 5). Of course, you probably would also have a lower cost of living...
well said jg.
if you're blessed with ovaries, sell your eggs
did you know you can harvest your eggs up to five times?!
i got an application to do so when i had first graduated and no job, back in the day when i was getting money for donating plasma. (another option for extra ca$h) i've been too busy and not really needed to follow up since then, but even though it takes a lot of time and physical strain to harvest your eggs, i think it is a totally viable option though. you know, if your ethics go that way.
This thread has taken a very strange left turn...Here I expected to read lots of advice about real estate, development, 3d graphics, or software development for c_ty and we get to plasma donations and selling of eggs?
I love archinect.
get to work..
i've hijacked two threads and brought them around veering corners.
i'm in my last week at my current job, so i am totally dicking off.
sorry.
so stephanie,
are you leaving your current job for better/ more design opportunities? more money/ benefits? laid off? changing careers? where are you going? where are you currently?
yeah, actually, let's get back on topic....how to make more money,
quit your job.
sell body parts.
i'm going full time egg and plasma donation enough of this architecture bullshit.
THE RECENT METROPOLIS MAGAZINE TALKS ABOUT BEING YOUR OWN DEVELOPER. I THINK IT'S WORTH A LOOK...
All this talk about being poor...and making little money is a little tired. Sure I don't make the same amount of money as a other comparable people in other professions, but many of them don't have the perks Architects have. To start off we are in a creative profession which you should enjoy, and from reading these discussions the past 4+ years everyone is pretty well traveled...enjoy the finer things in life. Most of my friends in these other "professions" earning 2-3 times what I make don't have the time to enjoy their life.
But getting back to the original question: How to make money? hell if there was an easy answer I would not be working...at the end of the day you have to be smart with your $$ and creative with your carreer path. Some purist may not like this, but there is alot of money on the developer side. I know Architects that turned to that post licensing and have done very well for themselves. You can also be a developer whore for a little while, and make enough money to get you secure enough where you can practice "real" architecture...and not have to worry abot the next paycheck. Some young architects go work for a starchitect for a year or so for no $$ and move to a large corp. firm as a designer making good $$. Hop firms for a few years, typically increasing your salary by 15+ % each time. Only drawback is it may catch up with you eventually (employers pay attention to this and you may hit a wall). If you are good with 3d modelling, or for that matter physical models, there is a market for this out there. Both in the Arch. and development side. I met an architect who worked for the NTSB doing plane crash video simulations...
I'll try to think of some more.
or you could just try and marry rich
Good points J3... I'll admit that I complain all the time about my lack of pay. Then again I've voyaged all over the world where as my friends easily making 2-3 times what I do haven't been to anyplace more exotic than a Mexican all-inclusive resort. Also, as much a pain in the ass my job might get at the end of the day I go home feeling like I'm making a difference. I may not agree with every client and/or building but at least I'm not selling my soul to make a buck.
Oh and marry rich. One of my favourite co-workers married a doctor and he quit years ago. Has lunch with him a few months ago. He picked me up in his new Range Rover...he also bought my lunch. I was happy.
Honestly, 95 percent of persons in architecture feel they don't make enough. One partner in I firm I worked for, had a second company that did design/ build Landscape work. He is a very good architect but knew that the dollars coming in from his other company was too good to pass up. He Spent 90% of his time doing landscape design.
I did some architectural metal work ie custom handrails for residences
picked up some good money. I like to build furniture, so every now and then I would build a piece for someone. Also,I had other drafting and design work outside the office. My town is small so it didn't take long for word to spread. It kills your free time so be prepared to work alot for awhile.
If you have other talent/skills it's not hard to make additional money just aliitle effort.
Wait for your Rich Mommy and Daddy to Die you IVY SCUM.
If you need money quick get a 12 gauge shotgun and go Mendez.
Fuckin scum like you make me sick.
Development is definitely the easiest $ making profession to slip into from architecture, but the way any professional makes money, is to bring IN the money, and Share the risk.
There is a Medical School joke that goes something like:
Q: what do you call the lowest paid graduate in your medical school class?
A: Doctor
In larger architecture firms, if you are bringing in the clients, there is opportunity to make a ton of money. You also put yourself in a position to make a ton of money if you are assuming some of the risk, which means being an owner.
However, your question is about the here an now, and it's unlikley you will get that kind of promotion within 5 years...
A previous employer (architect) started a wood stair business. The company does 10m in work a year. I don't know what that leaves him after all expenses, but I am sure that it's more than 1/2 mil a year. If you have interest in a particular niche within the construction industry, that could make you "rich".
I wanted to make more money, quit my job & started my own firm. I made less this year than I did at my first job right out of school. My perspective on the industry is that it is very difficult to make good money (in comparison to other "professions"). You either have to work at or own a large firm, or be in some niche like high-end custom residential or development. And despite all the talk on archinect about becoming a developer, it's not something you can just do, especially if you are in a location with high labor/materials/land and insurance etc. costs (like southern california). It takes a LOT of money and a company that has been around for a while with good credit, not too mention it is quite risky financially.
y younger brother just passed the bar, and is making $75,000 right out of school, working from home 3 days a week for a small firm. That is considered LOW. It is seriously making me wonder whether I made the right decision. I love design, I love working with clients and seeing things built, but I also want to have kids, more than a one bedroom house, and maybe take a vacation someday.
After several years, you should make enough to live on. You'll be able to pay rent, maybe buy a used car. But it's hard not to want more for all the hard work you put in, and the amount of stress and responsibility you face. And don't believe people who say "architects just need to demand more money", haha. I am on the front lines and I can tell you most people already have extremely unrealistic expectations about what it costs to build custom designed work, or put together a proper set of construction documents for a permit set. They are not going to pay 25 or 25% for an architect.
or 10-12%.i get a few people from 75 to 150K budgets wanting and wanting.
you are in the middle of bill paying. and you take a small job. now, a lot of people consider 10K is big money to pay someone to design and get a permit, if they only have 75K to begin with. so, you charge 5-6 thousand to the room expansion, take a wall or two out, re-do floors etc. in return they give you pretty much freedom to realize your ideas.
i saw these architects website, altough i am not judging the work, they had a very clear and professional descriptions on client's responsibilities and theirs. (likely out of architects handbook). but it somehow presented them in a very professional manner and made their potential clients aware what architects do and why they charge the things they charge and how much more they might charge and why.
i agree with RAR on her snapshot of the frontlines in los angeles.
but i would like to be like those guys in above web site so i can take tina ona nice vacation.
have you thought of getting into drug dealing, prostatution, or nudey dancing?
diversify.
Disregard what I said above...Marry Rich instead.
SUPER,
if you think any of those are easy pickin' you better start watching some R rated movies dude.
ebay
online poker, seriously, I whatched rounders for the first time 6 months ago, bought a book on internet poker, followed the rules presented in the book to a tee and have made $3500 over the past semester in my spare time, its really not that hard, most of the people you play against online are complete dumbasses
Trying to make money just doing architecture is probably any architect's first mistake. Now that I think about it there are lots of architect's in my area that have their hand in some other aspect of the business. Design/build. Construction management. Development. I remember one architect who risk some big dollars back in the eightys to get a valet service up and running at a local mall. The gimmick was that the whole system of communication was based off of satellites. This was before cell phones and high end two- way radios. Needless to say that the whole thing tanked in about 6 months
So unless your a starchitect, it's the norm to be unable to make a decent living doing just architecture. Starchitects most likely suffered for a period of time before they got noticed.
'So unless your a starchitect, it's the norm to be unable to make a decent living doing just architecture.'
Total rubbish. Are you making this up?
I am looking into opening a chain store. Dunkin Donuts or something
BOTS - I believe there is some exaggeration here but you have to admit that solely working in architecture will not afford the same standard of living that other equally educated professions will. We do work in a high stress, low pay field - yet I wouldn't trade what I do for anything that my higher paid friends are doing. It's a labour of love and if that means I cannot realize my dream of owning a summer home in Majorca, so be it.
I do agree that most of the public is oblivious as to what design costs. These days it seems it's tough to get a 7-8% fee. And it doesn't help when somehow the rumor spread that architects are rich. I absolutely hate hearing that.
The low pay in architecture is the fault of your fellow professional colleagues. The profession is structured around values of interest only to itself.
If architects want to make money then the profession as a whole needs to reorient itself to that end.
has anyone ever lost a potential job as a result of asking for more money? i don't mean with a client, but, like, as an intern, or as an architect/designer employed by somebody.
how do architect's pay compare to that of industriial or graphic designers? i dont care if that is an appropriate comparison, i'm jst curious.
I asked for more money at one office which was not paying me much (compared to an informal survey i did of friends at the time, i was at the bottom)... they did give me a 10% raise, but then laid me off along with 6 other people a few months later. I'm not sure if my asking for more money had to do with it, or the fact that I made it clear I did not want to work on week-ends or after 7 most of the time (it was a smallish starchitects office). They did call me back about two weeks after letting me go and asked if I wanted to work hourly. I already had 2 job offers for a lot more money and said no thanks. More or less the same thing happened at the office I worked in before that - asked for a raise but got laid off a month later instead. But it was a one person office and I know he had no work. I would say if the office is in a tenous financial position it might flag you as someone to get rid of because they may think you will be leaving soon anyway. But if the office is doing weel and they like your work it should be fine.
Also - for anyone interested - we charge 15% on design only jobs, and 10% on design/build (though we need to increase that to 15% or so...). This is more or less enough to complete the job, but we don't make a whole lot of profit on design, and in fact tend to loose money on the small jobs. As mentioned above, we are learning that even a $100,000 construction budget is not enough in most cases - we make very little money on it. And if something goes wrong and we have to eat it, our profit margin is so lim that we make nothing. I now truly understand why no one wants to do small jobs, and it is unfortunate. But I spend the same amount of time in meetings and picking out materials on a $75K job as on an $800K job, so obviously if given the opportunity I'll take the larger jobs. I would not be surprised if residential architecture for the single family homeowner no longer exists in 30 years (except for the very rich)...
oops, meant 12% on design/build
Architects only participate in less than 2% of residential jobs as it is.
I learned a lot teaching with Joe Tanney of Resolution 4, designers of the Dwell House. I'm now a believer in prefab as a design solution for architects interested in housing. The more I learn about it, the more intriguing it gets. It makes it possible for architects to increase our involvement in house design instead of disappearing from it altogether.
It also gives Resolution 4 something to sell - and the potential to make a lot of money - now that they've figured out how their 'modern modular' can be simultaneously prefab and custom and how to work to the standards of the manufacturing industry.
I agree that this seems intriguing, although my bias at this point is that you are severely limiting the options you give the client, even if there is some "customization" built into the process. If this is the wave of the future, I fear it will also result in the dwindling of architects who actually get to design for residential to almost none - just my intuition about how markets work (not that I really know, but based on how single family home construction works out here, tract homes and all). You may end up with a few companies doing something modern and decent, but you'll also have a lot of "cheaper, with granite countertops and traditional details too!". It would seem to me that making this work in a place like Los Angeles, where every building component must be pre-approved by the city and tested to receive a research report number (this takes time & costs $$), will mean that only very well-funded companies would be able to make it work. I know some people are trying to do pre-fab stuff out here, but they are basically using profab trailers (the same ones schools use) and then trying to add nicer windows and paneling on the outside. We recently did a bid for a job like that, and I think it came out to $200/sq.ft. more or less. They were going to hire a contractor for the installation who does only that, and have us do the finish work. For that cost, they will be getting something that doesn't really fit on the site, and is a rectangle with some cheap windows and flooring. Seems like it would be better to have something truly custom...
rudolph,
i don't think that prefab houses are going to greatly reduce the
market for architects..i think it does the opposite actually...
and it's not a new concept...usonian houses for example...
developer's already do prefab houses without architectural
involvement...i think resolution's prefab house actual gives
architect's the potential to break into their market not the
other way around...
i sort of agree with the prediction of diminishing residential architecture (as we know it) in next decades to come. small pocket markets will remain, but big chunk of the work will be taken over by .. well, maybe prefab technology, densification of cities thus multi family housing, lumber yards and real estate agengies providing design service or even GM, BMW, Toyota getting into dwelling manufacturing.
los angeles single family housing stock is avarage 50-60 years old and most of them will expire in 20 years or so. in most cases it is already cheaper to demo the old house and build a new one in its place. land is worthy but a lot of houses are not. empty lots are rare and expensive.
los angeles has a lively market for remodeling jobs for now, due to low interest rates and people getting improvement loans. once this trend ends, because of change in the economy, a lot of architects will fold or greatly reduce their operations. i saw that happened in late 80's and early 90's. it is not a pretty picture.
building is an expensive business. even the meager budgets can buy several cars paid in cash.
ultimetly, we must be prepared to make continious adjustments to our market driven pay levels. our product is not inflation proof.
try to charge the highest you can get when the market is alive and be able to ride the economic down turns with minimum demage to your set up and well being. there will be always starchi-tects, but just imagine what percentage of the profession they are representing. % .1? chances are slim to get there (not based on your talent) and enjoy the sex and drugs while you are interwieved by new york times on your latest creation.
i might have a hard time to contain myself when i hear some fengshui consultant walked away with 7-8 K in three visits to somebody's house and the project might come to a halt because of change in stair location (didn't happened just yet but i saw it happened to some friends). architecture has been so protective of itself that most of us see doing anything else as prostitution.architecture is penetrated by many professions and educational backgrounds because supposingly it seats on top of huge construction sector where there is a lot money. but architects has lost their place in their own turf and turn into technical design provider geeks and hold against a lot of liability for low fee's.
i can rant more but the point is already made before me as well.
and damn the hgtv type of shows that depicts our services and craft in half our completed projects. so fun, so free..
The BEST way to Make Money is to Sell out and work for a corporation.
One with a 401k, health Ins, and Stock Options.
So sell your soul and go work for the MAN..., you'll make money.
I just hope you can sleep at night
I'm right there with you Stark3d...
At very least I can sleep at night rather than feel guilty all the time.
ironically i think working at a good design firm
probably limits your sleep at night...or at least
your time in bed, at home or anywhere but the firm...
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