Have you looked into landscape architecture programs?

I'd guess it depends on what part of the 'urban' you want to design. Architecture will be more 'building' oriented, and my understanding is that the state of the art in landscape architecture is to look more at systems. Landscape architects would know better than me (here's looking at you, Barry L).

Given your policy degree, you probably won't be doing much 'designing' per se when you graduate, although you could be producing the data that goes into design (which is also interesting). Also, it doesn't seem as though you'd get a professional license as a planner*, so you'd probably be doing a lot more writing than designing! A degree in landscape architecture, architecture, or urban planning would give you a license to do something; exactly what that is depends on what part of the design you want to do, and you should plan your license track accordingly.

Also, they do have 'urban design'-focused professional degrees, so those could be of interest to you. The ones I'm thinking of are in architecture schools, but there could be others. Anything that doesn't give you an MArch, M.Landscape Architecture, or whatever the professional license is for planners (MUP?) is probably more of a post-professional degree, so you may want to start by looking at professional degrees. Remember to ask! - although planning degrees tend to be focused more on policy and less on design, so be forewarned.

That's my understanding of it, but I'm still not the most knowledgeable person (I've asked this question before, sort of! - though I'm at the other end of the education spectrum). There are lots of disciplines working together, so it seems like a pretty interesting field!

@MixmasterFestus Thanks for the great advice!
I've definitely also considered MLA programs, but not as much as first-professional M.Arch, so I'll be sure to take a look at that more.

My major's title can be misleading at times because despite its interdisciplinary title, that's more of an umbrella.
Just to clarify for future viewers my major works like this:
We take a handful of introductory "gateway" courses in all three main areas - planning, policy, and management. From then on we pick a track and the majority of our major's units are spent studying that track.
So when I say I'm an urban planning track student, the majority and of my units are coming from planning coursework. It can be a bit of a bummer not having that full planning education, but at the same time it's been interesting see how all the parts interconnect in the public realm.

Now that you mention it, I suppose a MLA program may perhaps be more appropriate, as my focus and interest within urban design thus far has been in public space and the interaction of people with that public space (parks, streets, sidewalks, etc.).

Like you said, if I were to continue in urban planning and get an MUP or MPL (depending on the school's naming of the degree), it'd be a lot more of the same. More research, data, policy, etc. and less design which is what I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot!

The cool thing about doing one and then the other is that not only will you understand how to design, but you will also understand where at least some of the data you are using to design comes from, and how it is made. This can only help!

For all intents and purposes of cutting to the point, urban design is essentially planning visually.

Of course, that doesn't stop you from doing that sort of thing in a standard urban planning realm. Perhaps the most limiting factor is that urban planning schools don't usually teach their students much in the way of how to design (studio) and the tools of design (CAD, visualization, modeling et cetera).

You can do urban planning, though, with both a M.Arch and a M.L.Arch. It would perhaps be in your better interest to get a MLA as that might give you more career choice in the future with the possibility of being licensed.

With the more recent trend in government and the longer sociocultural trend in America, there probably won't be a bright future in urban planning.



Basically, the architecture industry is a more realistic avenue for me at the moment that the world of planning. And I don't know about you... but look around this place!

@X/0
Thanks for your input! I really appreciate all the help guys, I was definitely in a dark spot as far as my future plans were.

It sounds like for what I'm interested in and what will give me the most career options, an MLA is a pretty good option.
I like that it deals with the design and planning areas I'm interested in and also gives me the option of practice or planning.

If anyone else has any advice, feel free to chime in.
Thanks again!

"professional license is for planners (MUP)"

There is no license for planners except for in New Jersey.

The American Planning Association does not encourage the licensing of planners on either a national or state level. The APA recognizes and respects existing state licensing or credential requirements and supports its members practicing the profession of planning in those states. For example, New Jersey currently requires licensure of professional planners, and Michigan currently provides for the registration of Professional Community Planners. Some states, such as Kentucky, South Carolina, and Tennessee, have enacted legislation pertaining to the credentialing of planning commissioners and other planning officials.

They have the AICP (American Institute of Certified Planners). Most entry-level or near entry-level jobs require an AICP certification.

It takes approximately two years of work experience after a Master's degree to qualify to sit for the exam (three years of a B.A., three years for a non-accredited degree and four for any remaining degrees). But, unless you have a degree from an accredited graduate school, it's highly unlikely you'll even be considered for a position anywhere.

So, it's one of those need experience for an entry-level position conundrums.

unless you have an interest in landscape architecture, getting an mla is a waste of time and money. the problem with a mud degree is that it is a post-professional degree and therefore you need to have completed or be concurrently working on your first masters degree. i know at michigan you can enter the mud with an mup; the problem is that you will be behind in developing the graphic skills required for a mud if you only have a policy-oriented background - not insurmountable, but a disadvantage for most.

another option might be to work for a few years for a cdc or other city development agency. it will get you very close to the urban design and planning professions, but from the client side. you will get a taste for the profession before deciding if it is for you or not. i would recommend getting a few years of work experience before going back for a professional/post-professional degree, especially if you are uncertain which degree is for you.

I'm inclined to agree with won and done williams - get some work experience.

I have a very similar background to you - Urban Planning with more Design. Its took me 2 years of work in practice to really appreciate the multifarious nature of urban design, and how your role in the sector relates to your background.

Personally, I've always wanted to work in masterplanning, and whilst expressing policy graphically is interesting, its not something I want to do for the rest of my life. Acquiring an architecture degree is the only real way i can achieve this, and so thats what im gonna do!

I'd definately recommend getting a first hand appreciation of what it is you want to do, through working for either a private consultancy or public body (the latter could be difficult atm), before embarking on a potentially expensive grad program.

Plus by working for a bit you'll save some money. Waiting till your mid-20s to attend grad school is by no means the end of the world.

Good Luck

i haven't read all of the posts here, so this may have already been covered, but here are a few options that i would suggest....

not all m.arch. programs are created equal... there are some that have a strong urban design focus (like georgia tech, at least when i was there a number of years ago), some that focus on technical/practical building, and some that focus on innovative techniques like scripting (like upenn where i'm doing my phd)... if you can find a m.arch program that matches your interest then that might be a good path...

you could also look into dual degree programs... i think georgia tech might have a dual architecture/urban design degree (or it might be an urban design certificate)... upenn has a dual architecture/landscape degree that it popular amongst urban design oriented people...

finally, you could look in planning programs... upenn's planning program has several specialization tracks, one of which is urban design... in fact they're currently doing a search for a new urban design faculty member with some pretty impressive candidates...

if your main interest is urban design and the spaces between buildings then you need to choose carefully if you go the m.arch. way...

I second the idea of working a few years before applying to grad school. You will increase your chances of getting into an urban design program, as they are typically more competitive than arch grad school.

Typically, urban design programs are small, and depending on where you go, the opportunity to network is actually not very good because of this. Furthermore, a lot of students you will be going to school with will be international students so your odds of networking is that much smaller.

The up side is that it does give you a much better understanding of the built environment than an architecture education. Your classmates will come from architecture, landscape, and planning backgrounds. You will learn different eras of planning from the 1930s to post WWII and more modern examples; definitely something they don't teach in architecture school but should. Some programs try to link with large international city planning departments and work on potentially real projects.

The two strongest schools that come to mind are Miami (new urbanism) and Michigan which has a similar mentality but is more flexible. Michigan is embedded in the architecture-planing-real estate school so it gives good options for electives.

Again, young as you are, my advice is to work for a few years. These schools are competitive and look favorably on work experience. You will be able to contribute more to the program and get more out after working. I would stay away from a MLA or MAUD...who knows, after a few years of working, you may decide it's not worth it and get a MRED which is what a lot of people do after they get a MUD.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really, really appreciate it.
Coming from a non-arch/design background, I've really been in the dark up until lately.
I'll definitely take a better look at working before grad school as an option.

But also, to clarify, aren't the majority of these urban design programs typically one year post-professional programs as it is?
I'm coming from just a normal B.S. degree so the only programs I'm really eligible for are first professional M.Arch and MLA programs.

I spoke to my professor today who teaches an upper division urban design course within my planning school that I'm taking. She's actually a professor at both my planning school and the architecture school.
She recommended that I look more at MLA programs, like some of the first posters in this thread did and that I could pursue those post-professional degrees after that, like an MUD.

Regardless, I've definitely started to talk to a lot more people about what they think would be an appropriate course of action, and I really appreciate all the advice you guys have given. Thanks!

I apologize because I cannot remember the magazine but it ranked the top three architecture programs with an emphasis in Urban Design as

University of Maryland
University of Miami
University of Notre Dame

If you truly consider the definition of urban design, I would suggest you best bet is to obtain a Master of Architecture with a certificate in Urban Design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_design

Best.

True, these programs are post professional degrees. Some schools have more stringent requirements while some will let you in with a BS if you have a strong background.

I have seen the rankings that Dr. Arch is talking about, it's a new urbanist ranking of the program. Take it with a grain of salt. If I remember correctly, Miami was 1. I think Berkeley and Michigan were there also. I wasn't that impress with Marlyland or Notre Dame. UC Berkeley has a program but I was also not impressed - way too small and very loosely organized plus the arch program itself doesn't have a strong reputation.

If you have a BS, my instincts would be to say Michigan again because they do not require a professional degree and the school provides for the option of pursuing a certificate in RE which is something you will not get from say Rice or other MAUD program. Since a lot of MUD grads go into a MRED, this will give you a good head start and better rounded education. I would disagree with Dr. Arch's recommendation. If you were truly interested in urban design, get an MUD. Likewise, if someone was truly interested in RE, get a MRED instead of getting an MArch or MUD with a certificate in RE.

The certificates are supplements to the core programs. I never understood the point of combining arch and urban design into a MAUD. I liken it that thinking to Harvard's RE program that really combines arch + RE, which waters down the core intent of these respective programs - after all, they are suppose to be post professional degrees where you apply what you learned towards another field as oppose to some architecture programs where they will tell you that you have to forget everything you spent the past 5 years learning so they can regurgitate the same thing back to you.

Since you have a planning degree, I would concentrate on whatever you need to get AICP. From every Planning Vision of YourTown USA, make sure you know how to photoshop trees and greenspace over existing hardscapes. I would also, look at some potential downtowns, sprawl areas whatever appeals to you and develop some Vision Statement/Redesign projects on your own. Its as easy as InDesign.

michigan's mud does require a professional degree (m.arch, mla or mup).

because there is no licensing requirement for urban design, there is to my understanding very little difference between a mud and a maud; it's simply an organizational difference between programs, but in terms of content and outcomes, the differences are minor.

Michigan takes in students with and without professional degrees. I don't know what their website says but I know people who have gone there without a professional degree or much work experience. They admit students from their non-accredited undergrad arch program, some enroll in the MUD as part of a dual degree with a MArch. Generally, the student age varies from around 23-31 so you have a pretty good mix of experience, with the youngest students being from the elitist international schools.

At the end of the day, it's just another design degree but there is a difference, IMO, between a MAUD and a MUD in terms of focus and what you will learn. The MAUD is structured more like an architecture program with UD supplements and gives the option of going into architecture, while the MUD tend to be more UD/UP structure with theory base design and RE as a backdrop. In other words, one takes an individualistic approach of an architecture education while the other takes a team/ collaborative approach. Think of it as Koolhaus/tschumi vs Jane Jacobs/Duany. Stronger MUD programs also try to combine their education with potentially real developments which is generally missing from a MArch or MAUD.

Since the OP doesn't have interest in becoming an architect, the MUD would provide a much more focused education than a MAUD, and also because they tend to be only one year or 2 1/2 semesters, you will get more out of an education that is more focused.

In my opinion, the annual ULI/Hines student competition provides a decent snapshot of urban design skills at various schools. The competition is blind, and most schools enter a team or two.

From 2003 to 2011, the schools with the most finalist teams are:

Harvard
Penn
Berkeley
Columbia
MIT
Michigan
Maryland

@sectionalhealing,

These are interesting competition entries; would you say that they approach the current state of the art for urban design, or at least the output of its programs?

It's hard to gauge the strength of a UD program just from the Hinz competition because it's typically offered in an introduction level RE course which has about 4-5 teams per school. Those teams consists of students who are from RE, Arch, UD, and from my experience they are mostly from UP - so you don't have a team that is all urban design students or a team that is all RE students.

It's actually rare that you would get a lot of UD students who enter these competitions because the majority of them do not take any RE courses. They still can enter the competion without taking the course. However, since the competition is held very early in the semester, most aren't aware of them nor would they want to commit the time, because as a design student, it's like taking on two studios for the duration of the competition.