the debt-free degree would be nice..BUT this is not a particularly great degree. as competition continues to ramp up, that SUNY degree might only help you get a job in upstate NY. even then, cornell and syracuse are right down the road. from my experience, that is a regional degree, michigan is turning INTO a national degree (not quite there despite their new/perplexing ranking).


have you thought about simply interning until you can take your exams? how about deferring and saving some money?

i'm a michigan grad. i think it's a great program. but i think suny is a great program as well. personally, i'd take the fullride. the university name written on the piece of paper doesn't get you anything. both are "national" degrees, and respected all over, have been and will remain so. a lack of college loan debt will enable you to do things with your career when you graduate that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise, like travel, work abroad, do an internship for a starchitect, start your own side business, buy a new computer (or a condo), whatever.

i wouldn't consider SUNY buffalo just a regional degree. Omar Khan is there, with collaborators, is very well connected, and I'd say the work he produces is a good as you'll find anywhere. It seems, too, that these schools have different focus areas, which should weigh into your consideration, as well.

Employers are only going to care where you attended school for your first position after graduation; afterwards, they want to know what you can do.

But more than Michigan vs. cost, which program will provide you what you want? Saving money or being debt-free is great, but does it provide the education you want?

Best!

Not having debt is huge. Part of the reason I enrolled at Boston Architectural College was because of their concurrent learning program where students are supposed to work full time and take classes at night. Even with several years of drafting experience I was not able to find job in this field. I guess the question is is a degree from Michigan worth an extra $600/month (or whatever your repayment is) vs the SUNY degree?

You can calculate what your loan repayment will be [url=
here.]http://www.mappingyourfuture.org/paying/standardcalculator.htm]here.[/url][/url] Just to be informed you should read some of the horror stories about school loans. They cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. I even read a story about a good student who died in a car accident before graduation. His working class parents were financially ruined by loans they are now forced to pay off. You are signing a deal with the devil. Whether or not your degree helps you find a good job you will pay. Good Luck.

jbushkey where did you read that story? where they dept of education loans? as i understand it, the govt pretty much forfeits the loan obligation upon death.

in regards to the discussion, i'm not saying the quality or type of education does not matter. but i like to think i did pretty well at umich, and i know a lot of people who did worse, and better. there's little correlation between that and the types of jobs people get. i know people from much smaller, more far away schools who have cooler jobs than people i know from michigan. i have a friend who went to yale for architecture who is just in some menial job at a national park.

michigan is a big school. and yes, every year they place at least a select few student in some amazing job with gehry or zaha or someone like that. but it's nearly 1 or 2 out of 70 or 80 some odd students. the assumption that some schools are more "connected" or "respected" in the professional world is only a half-truth. especially in this economy, what employers want to know is if you can make them money, not where you went to school.

that aside, i would definitely recommend michigan as a great place to study. but depending on who you want to work for, especially in this economy you'll have a lot more leverage with your salary without added debt, and i would argue this is more likely going to get you the position you want than where you went to school.

let me put it this way: if you are good enough to get a full ride at suny, then you are probably good enough to do well anywhere. maybe you could do incredible at michigan and get an amazing first position at office da. but you might be able to do that at suny as well.

this is a difficult choice

On one hand you have America's shittiest city (Buffalo beats Detroit and St. Louis by a snowflake). On the other, you have America's shittiest state (by a wide margin of unemployment to the runner up). I would go with whatever program is shorter.

Considering today's situation in architecture, you should definitely visit both campuses and make a call after that. The one thing I didn't consider at the time was the schools alumni networks. You should ask about that. I had to make a similar choice, I decided after visiting all campuses, which one to go with. It was between Urbana champ. Univ. IL, UIC, or IIT, and after talking with the professors at all these schools I was surprised to see(and I dont think UIUC or UIC grads will admit it) that IIT a smaller private school was the best choice. At IIT I got 50% tuition paid for, through scholarships, va benefits, at the other colleges it would have been a free ride. Also consider that you will have to pay thousands of dollars more in architecture supplies, besides books and other things. good luck man.

fyi, both those places are very cold in the winter.

thank you creativity, that is what i meant by "national" school. i do not care at ALL about reputation. perhaps i should have been clearer. some schools will tell you where their alumni work (they all should) which can give you SOME idea of where you could start looking after you graduate. so, if you can find employment making more and doing better work (that gives you the opportunity for growth - upstate NY is pretty much stagnated) for a few more dollars, it might be worth it. BUT, that being said too much debt is too much debt.

good luck.

rustystuds
somehow im starting to think ur only purpose for being on here is defecate and pollute with ur depressing insights.


I would choose SUNY Buffalo

lebossman sorry for being lazy. I think the second one is the one I read about awhile back. What a kick in the teeth for the parents.

student-dies-parents-pay

When Student Loans Live On After Death

Hey number 9, I also got accepted into SUNY Buffalo. So far, I'm weighing Buffalo vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee and I'm not sure which one to choose. So far, I'm leaning towards Milwaukee because of their stellar program but Buffalo has offered me a scholarship too and it's cheaper. May I ask what were your motivations for applying to SUNY Buffalo? Thanks and good luck!!

BTW, number 9, you do know that U. Michigan's Taubman School of Architecture outranked Harvard Graduate School of Design and took no. 1 spot according to Design Intelligence right?

The biggest surprise in this thread was discovering that New Mexico has an unemployment rate below the national average.

And, also continually reaffirming my belief that Florida is one of the most miserable places on Earth. It's starting to give South Africa a run for its money.

go to michigan.

debt is only bad if you plan on working in a small firm for the rest of your life and never making partner.

Fuck yeah! Don't be a loser who works for themselves and never makes partner.

If you want to work for a large international firm and you do want to make partner, you want to have at least a masters from a good school so it's worth the debt. Ignore rustystud's depressing comments. I advise you to do some research into large firms like Pelli Clarke Pelli, Kohn Pederson Fox, Hok Architects, Steven Holl Architects and see what level education their principals and senior partners have. These firms are world class. I've been introduced to some local architects in San Francisco who do make a decent living building and renovating nice homes and estates but they only have a B.A. in architecture. I can tell you that I have no intentions to ever work with them because they aren't "make a difference" architects and the work they do is only status quo and nothing new. So yes, yes, and yes...you would want a masters degree from a good school if you want to be involved in great buildings.

kyuen, if you were really born in 87, that would make you much too old to believe in gibberish you just wrote. KPF and HOK as "make a difference" architects? Sure, if you're an accountant. Otherwise, I wish you luck in whatever school you end up in. It may be quite painful.

look, i know people from montana state who work for some of the firms listed. i know people from michigan who are out of work. where you go to school has little to do with where you work, or making partner. my career has evolved organically, in part out of where i went to school, in part out of experience built on itself. i've worked for both large and small firms. i have friends who've spent years in large firms like hok and kpf just designing elevator shafts. in a small firm i was able to work on an urban design that constituted about 20% of the town i was living in. the transit center i worked on in detroit won a lot of awards and was widely published, but now it's totally trashed. so making a difference is all relative. i've been working in the field on and off for ten years. i've seen a lot of shit. those who are successful don't develop "plans" for themselves while in school and execute them while in practice, but instead are able to roll with the punches and adjust to the realities of professional practice. i love the tcaup and will forever value my experience there and the career i've been, but there are some pretty silly thoughts here about what it gets you. what you get is an education, experience, and a chance to learn and use your head. it isn't a free ticket to anywhere, and it isn't really even a chance multiplier for anything. it's an education, one that is both valuable and expensive, and like anything you have to weigh the worth of that. if you had anything other than a full ride sitting on your lap right now, my take would be completely different.

bossman, you just sound bitter for not making partner and then making difference. Enjoy your unpaid student loans.

great post, le bossman

i don't even know how to argue against a point as obvious as HOK, KPF and other large firms having more of an impact in the environment ("making a difference") than the average firm when it is so f obvious; rusty, you ever hear of the term "scale"?

le bossman - wise words!

Grad school debt is a high-risk investment these days - it can pay off big, or can tank 2008-style. The ambitions will be loftier at Michigan, the equipment and faculty will be more numerous and better, and that degree may open more doors for you after school if you are a certain kind of person. There is no guarantee, and it is a very personal decision.

I also went to TCAUP (with mr. bossman...) and think it is a special place, worth the sizeable debt-load I incurred. Another degree wouldn't have allowed me to do what I'm doing, but that is not to say that I wouldn't have been happy elsewhere. The debt is payable, but ya gotta find a way to be competitive in a very competitive market just to make your bills. If you don't, you'll find yourself on archinect making rusty posts about unpaid student loans...

All college students need to realize that there is a fair chance you F your life with student loans. A college degree isn't the sure thing it a few decades ago :(

income-dependent repayment plans.
do your research.

flashpan, in retrospect, I wish TCAUP was one of the schools on my list but do you know anything about the other great lake schools? U. Minn, U. Wisconsin-mil, Knowlton? Thanks!