VuONG: just so you don't have to, I'll point out all the schools you probably have a problem being ranked higher than princeton, that you haven't already mentioned:

UT Austin
UC Berkeley
Washinton
UPenn
U Cincinnati
Cornell


Hope that helps.

Vatoloco,

An architect's job is to convince the public that engineers shouldn't build buildings without architects?

If an engineer, or anyone else, can do the architect's job, he/she should be allowed to do so. Likewise, if an architect can do the engineer's job, he/she should be allowed to do so. The problem is that most architects can't do the engineer's job.

i dont know vuong.. sciarc has some very interesting work. and princeton has gotten very boring and shy.

michigan, vtech, washington, austin SHOULD NOT be above sciarc, ucla, princeton, rice

They're all pretty crappy, not to mention over-priced. This is like a list of the most attractive male senators over the age of 60.

"michigan, vtech, washington, austin SHOULD NOT be above sciarc, ucla, princeton, rice"

through columbia in there and it would really sound like you're talking about 1998. schools change and i doubt you can tell me you have a better idea of the inner-workings of these places..

"michigan, vtech, washington, austin SHOULD NOT be above sciarc, ucla, princeton, rice"

throw columbia in there and it would really sound like you're talking about 1998. schools change and i doubt you can tell me you have a better idea of the inner-workings of these places..

So, what is this list useful for? I wish they disclosed their research methods and findings lot more transparently.. We can't even criticize this list because we don't even know what exactly this measures or any bias there may have been. How am I supposed to utilize it? Even the detailed report doesn't show anything.

As stated - here is the methodology -

Survey methodology
America’s Best Architecture & Design Schools by DesignIntelligence is conducted on behalf of the Design Futures Council. The research ranks undergraduate and graduate programs from the perspective of leading practitioners. This 12th annual survey was conducted in mid-2010.
Selected professional practice leaders who have direct experience in hiring and in evaluating the performance of recent architecture and design graduates are invited to participate in the research. Survey participants, who are drawn from a database of leading firms throughout the United States, were queried about which college and university programs are best preparing students for professional practice.

For the four professions surveyed — architecture, landscape architecture, industrial design, and interior design — a total of 220 organizations participated in the research. (For a list of participating organizations, see www.di.net/articles/schools2011)

The professional practice study queried participants about many issues in addition to preparedness for practice, such as how programs rate in teaching various specific skills.

The schools rankings are compiled using data from surveys conducted and analyzed by DesignIntelligence staff. Research for the surveys is aided by information provided the National Council of Architectural Registration Boards, the National Architectural Accreditation Board, the American Institute of Architecture Students, the Landscape Architectural Accreditation Board, and the Council for Interior Design Accreditation.

Deans and Chairs survey
In addition to the undergraduate and graduate schools rankings, deans and chairs from 126 academic programs participated in their own surveys, the data from which is presented separately from the rankings.

Student survey
In our largest student survey ever, 2,556 architecture students completed satisfaction surveys about their education, and that data is also presented separate from the rankings.

Who cares.... I can't remember the last time (if ever) I've seen a person get hired because of where his or her school placed on this list (which basically changes every year).

A little reality check:

At work the guy to my left went to Cornell, I went to VT, the guy opposite from me went to Syracuse, and the guy on my right went to Arkansas. We all make right around the same age/salary.

The Cornell guy is working on As Builts for an Asbestos Removal project.

I'm working on a Sketch-UP model for a suburban DC Federal masterplan project that we are in pursuit of.

Syracuse guy is doing a REVIT blocking and stacking diagram for some other federal project.

Mr Arkansas is working on CA for a Adaptive Re-Use wherehouse-turned Airforce base admin office for the GSA.

Oh and oris, what the fuck are you even talking about?

vuong, VT is ranked over Princeton surprises you? Have you been to either of the schools and seen either program?

Probably not so keep your idiotic judgements to yourself.

I can answer that for you.

Otis does not know what he is talking about. He's merely trying to justify why he went to architecture school to become a video game designer...

ya could have stayed at home and done that in your parents' basement, buddy.

Otis represents a group of people that like to talk about things like Catia (oh BTW it's from the aerospace industry just in case you didn't hear that before) and more than likely don't even know how to use it.

If you think grasshopper is BIM modeling, for example, or that someone who says "hey, you went to architecture school I expect basic competency from you as an architect" is _dangerous_ because they aren't slurping up that half-witted innovation bullshit kool-aid... then something is seriously fucking wrong with architectural education in this country. But come to think of it why should that really surprise anyone.

Bottom line: stop drinking the kool-aid.

med, sorry to say i have never looked into VT because it is not a school which i would consider attending.

I look at princeton, as a school i covet, as my classmates n friends attend there now

Princeton has Stan Allen as chair, and visiting professors such as Diller, Lavin, Kipnis, Alejandro Zaera-Polo, Amale Andraos, Hani Rashid, etc...

princeton only as a M.ARC class of 12... with over 1000s of appilcants. Making it one of or the most selective M.ARC program in the states.

Princeton produces people like Greg Lynn, and Stan Allen
VT produces people who do sketch up massing models

To even compare VT to princeton is kind of silly...

but thats just looking at it as academic avant garde and what other " academic avant garde schools share the same faculty" point of view.

I guess if i was looking at it as a school who can produce people who can make sketch up massing models, then VT should totally be on top of princeton. I mean i dont even think princeton teaches sketch up.

you guys do realize that it doesn't really matter where you go to school, right? i recall a resume and work sample i came across in one of my old firms. the student did his undergrad at upenn and his m.arch at the gsd, but had no work experience. his samples were some blobby forms he made in rhino with a script he wrote.

me: "oh, that's sort of cool."
boss: "yeah, it's sort of cool but it's not going to get him a job."

bottom line is i've known people from yale, ucla, rice, sciarc, michigan, montana state, arizona state, iit, ball state, mississippi state, unc charlotte, clemson, gsd, uva, iowa state, new school, lawrence tech, ud mercy, wash u, penn, uic, u of az, ut austin, carnegie mellon, etc etc etc and based on what i know, there is almost no correlation between how talented someone is, how smart they are, how eager they are, and how good of an architect they become. for every greg lynn and stan allen princeton produces they produce a hell of a lot more people who are far less interesting, and some of the people i admire most didn't go to any schools like that. in the professional world, anyone could care less where you went to school.

If they're ranking recent graduates who got jobs lately, they've certainly got a very slim section to judge from.

@Dr. Architecture

Yes, I did see that. What I meant was the actual hard-evidence, or the basis, for these rankings. Sample surveys, sampling distribution, variables, possible confounds or bias, statistical inference, etc. For example, I know for a fact they must've dealt with the sampling bias somehow. Universities that are geographically favored to certain firms are inherently biased in their distribution rate. They do mention certain difficulties such as small sampling issues, but don't really talk about how they addressed the issues.

I mean I'm certainly not going to just take the survey's word for it. But if they can't disclose their research then there's no possible way for them to logically justify the rankings to me. It's okay.. nobody else here even seems to be interested in trying to analyze these rankings and break it down. I give up. I'll just continue to gather personal anecdotes and use my own intuition and reasoning. I still got a year till I possibly apply.

Vuong I think I am seriously in need of a shower after reading your response. Seriously THAT stupid.

No one is comparing Princeton to VT. the simple fact on the ground is that you event admitted now knowing anything about VT's program and therefore you haven't the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. That's fine if you haven't considered going there - fair enough as everyone has their own preferences on where they want to go to school.

I'm pretty sure that generalizing ALL VT grads as people who (in your own words) "do nothing more than sketchup mass models" is going to get you very far in your career. I would certainly hope you keep those moronic judgements to yourself within the professional world. I'm not exactly sure where I said in any post that VT teaches sketchUP - studio professors there typically discouraged the use of digital models unless they are good and dig deep into the understanding of the project.

Several of our senior design principals here (a global architecture firm) are VT alum. and there were also senior designers at my previous firms that were VT alums as well. Again keep your judgements to yourself. Otherwise you will have a very short career ahead of you.

LeBossman is right, it doesn't really matter where you went.

The first time I read Stan Allen's papers on emergence and self-organizing systems I thought (to put it in a civilized manner) they were really really dumb and full of misreadings. I would have had many an issue attending a school chaired by that man. Using him as a reason to state the princeton is a good school is borderline insulting to princeton as a whole.

med. sorry that i offended you, but as you can tell by this complete article. this is all subjective.

I can state my opinion however i want, Its my opinion, its yours to take offense to it.

I know nothing about your school, because it is an uninteresting program, that is not even a blip on the academic aerena, Im sure you yourself, cant even name off the top of your head any seminal architects or theories, that is teaching at VT this year. Because theres not.

While people who dont even attend schools like princeton can name a few.

The only reason why i mentioned sketch up is because one of there alumni "you" use it daily at your office.

Yes it doesn't matter where you go to school, to get a job, It does matter, when your trying to land a job at OMA, Morphosis, etc.

You have no idea where i went to school or where Im working now, or the type of people who Im working with.

Im sorry you take offense to my statement, at less you have pride in your program, thats touching.

honestly, vuong, it doesn't even matter if you're trying to land a job at oma or morphosis. i knew someone from montana state university who went to work at morphosis. it. just. doesn't. matter.

You name-dropped Stan Allen. Come out and play. Stop ignoring my theory-bait.

morphosis employs exactly one princeton MArch graduate out of the 55 employees listed on their website.

a sampling of schools with similar or better odds:

ball state
montana state university
university of toronto
university of kentucky
university of colorado


in fact, the only significantly represented schools at morphosis are Sci-Arc and UCLA - which makes complete sense.

Princeton produces theories like Cal they write there projects, and have pages to explain there work.

This is why people a person like Stan Allen fits. Princeton as Lavin, Kipnis, as visiting professors, writers n theories, of architecture, Stan Allen obvious as a role in the selection of visiting faculity.

You can like him or not that doesn't matter theres a reason why you read his essay. After reading it its your opinion. The fact that you read it, is something to say, have you read an essay from the chair of the architecture department form VT can you even name who he is or know what kind of work he has done?

Didnt think so.

I guess i might have some misconception on job placements, with these starinects firms, I just know that these types of starinects scout often at schools like this.

The Uncanny X-Men comics I read as a kid have more of an influence on my work than Stan Allen's papers. Next.

Im glad to hear that your work is best related to kids comic.

Vuong, you should just stop right now and save yourself from any further humiliation.
http://morphopedia.com/people/alphabetical/5/

People at Morphosis:

U. of Illinois Chicago
Savannah College of arts
Ball State
UCLA
Stevens Institure of Tech
University of Philladelphia
Columbia
University of Arizona
USC
Miami University of Ohio
Yale
University of Oregon
Cornell
Georgia Tech
Montana State U.
Cal Poly
Sci Arc
U of Kentucky
Princeton
UNC Charlotte
U. of Michigan
Rice
U of Texas
Penn
Kent State
Virginia Tech
U. of Colorodo
Portland State U.
Washington U.
Clemson

Hmmmm..........Only a handful of people from the Ivies. I believe Tom himself is the only one from GSD The rest are from a load of other public schools including VT. I could care less about where I went to school, I'm just stating the obvious reality that it really doesn't matter where you went to school - in the professional world if you are a talented indivudual who has a good skillset you can go anywhere.

Thanks for playing.

Vuong, you should just stop right now and save yourself from any further humiliation.
http://morphopedia.com/people/alphabetical/5/

People at Morphosis:

U. of Illinois Chicago
Savannah College of arts
Ball State
UCLA
Stevens Institure of Tech
University of Philladelphia
Columbia
University of Arizona
USC
Miami University of Ohio
Yale
University of Oregon
Cornell
Georgia Tech
Montana State U.
Cal Poly
Sci Arc
U of Kentucky
Princeton
UNC Charlotte
U. of Michigan
Rice
U of Texas
Penn
Kent State
Virginia Tech
U. of Colorodo
Portland State U.
Washington U.
Clemson

Hmmmm..........Only a handful of people from the Ivies. I believe Tom himself is the only one from GSD The rest are from a load of other public schools including VT. I could care less about where I went to school, I'm just stating the obvious reality that it really doesn't matter where you went to school - in the professional world if you are a talented indivudual who has a good skillset you can go anywhere.

Thanks for playing.

bent.

" I just know that these types of starinects scout often at schools like this. "

No they don't.

Example: I was at a Open House for the U. of Maryland this year representing my fim and some of the people there were the likes of Steven Holl, Rafael Vinnoly, Robert AM Stern, McDonough, Pelli, Assymptote, Pei Cobb Freed, SAANA, Richard Rogers, etc.

Anyway, I love SketchUp! :D

If you want to spout off design theories, and do a little name dropping about theoriest, be my guest - it was my primary interest in grad school and undergrad.

"I guess i might have some misconception on job placements, with these starinects firms, "

You have misconceptions about everything it seems.

good story bro.

still doesn't explain how VT should be ranked higher then princeton.

one thing is for sure that i haven't misconceived is that VT is not an top tier school that is on the same level with schools like princeton, let alone rank higher then it.

but this just provides to show these ranking are meaningless,

and until there is a better methodology is used.

it's not "good story bro", it's "cool story bro". if you're gonna troll, get your lines right.

further reference: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cool%20story%20bro

Dude - no one (including myself) is comparing VT to Princeton. and no one is dogging Princeton either. Princeton is Princeton is Princeton - end of the story. Everyone is well aware of it stature.

These rankings change all the time. And the Design Intelligence rankings clearly states that it is a combination of factors that lead them to making the decision primarily with job placement. VT has a huge architecture program and many of their graduates are seen in payrolls accross the nation and profession whether they are at corporate firms, starchitects, mid-size, or boutique firms. And when surveyed many firms claim to like what they see out of VT alums. The program has always had good combination of design theory, technical knowledge, graphics, and technology.

You're the one completely insulting VT alum and their school. If it't top tier that you are talking, the term "top tier" refers to any school that is designated as a "National University with a high or very high level of research activity. The US News and World Report classifies them as 1st tier schools and VT is among them - just saying....

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/page+3

bad troll is bad.

Princeton is a better school than VT, but what Princeton teachs are not better than what VT teachs.

It seems VT at least knows architectural theory has lost somewhere and they didn't pretend they still have some "SOLID" theory, but Princeton couldn't admit we don't have a solid theory any more so that they pretend and deceive naive students like VuONG that they teach something progressive.

However, nowadays architectural theory itself is obsolete and wrecked comparing other professions. Everytime I read architectual theory I am surprised how stupid intellectuals in architecture are.
It's sad but true......

"Everytime I read architectual theory I am surprised how stupid intellectuals in architecture are."

Oh come on, they might be misguided or uninteresting but they're hardly stupid.

this thread reminds me of a Frasier episode where Frasier was trying to brag about going to Harvard to some guy who nonchalantly replied "oh yes i went to Oxford."

People no matter what you do someone already thinks the next guy is below them, its practically embedded into American society, I have always dealt with that attitude my whole life, you can either stand up and go do your best proving you are good at what you do, or you can accept that some small and really insignificant group of bureaucrats has said your college sucks.

yes, for the record, i'm not against princeton at all.

"Oh come on, they might be misguided or uninteresting but they're hardly stupid."

That's why I am really surprised whenever I read an architectural theory because I didn't think they are stupid but it's obvious that they are seriously and stupidly misguided.

lol

We've just published a new feature by guest author Ann Lok Lui:

The Mathematics of the Ideal Education; Debunking the DesignIntelligence Best Architecture & Design Schools Rankings

Ann's a 5th year student at Cornell and poses some very questions about the validity of the DI Ranking system.