for a quick rendering, it's probably only important to show where the column is, more so than it's exact size. column type and size will depend on the construction method, seismic zone, tributary loads, bending/buckling/shear, etc. if it's steel, just stick a 6x6 square tube in place, i'm sure that's just fine for your purposes. know your audience, i doubt they care about inches.
I would also use 6" tubes, but for the sanctuary space I would increase it to a 10" or 12"....
cmrhm has a good point though...it is a rendering and it needs to exaggerate some of the details a little bit, because if it is too slender it may get overlooked and somebody could question it later, but then again it is a steel building....so unless they are corinthian columns...they will not add any aesthetic value...
lets say the wide flange (I beam) is W12x6, the beam height...or in your case the column depth is 12" and the flange (top of the I) itself is 6".
I'm not understanding your question. The beam (column) can range and it is all based on calculation of point loads, lateral loads, spans etc. etc. Now there is something nice and elegant when a beam or column is proportional...like 12x6, as opposed to a wide flange (I beam) being 12x12....then I would rather use a tube column!
I understand you are new to this, but please next time you post questions give us as many details as possible and of course images are always appreciated....We'd love to know what exactly you are working on, what type of columns you want to use (tubes, I beams, concrete)....then the answers may get a little bit more helpful.
Also, we'd love to know your background....are you a student? what year? etc. etc. because sometimes you will get hurt by answers....
I could have said "Shouldn't you fucking know that?" but then again I don't know how old you are and how long you have been in the field.....
that's wrong, poop. in W12 x [X], the X stands for pounds per linear foot of steel. it has nothing to do with the width of the section. the W12 (roughly) stands for the depth of the section, but the W does not mean web; it means "wide flange" steel shape.
i guess we're both right then. there are fabricators that use the depth-width nomenclature you reference (i just googled it - nucor steel). i've just never run across it written like that on a structural drawing or a shop drawing before.
I dont understand why you archinectors are surprised that this topic is popping up? I mean we all know that firms are hiring people that don't know the answer to that question or people that know the answer to that question but are not drawing anything anymore. You guys better get used to these questions.
ps. the op is seriously needs to re read his structural class notes from college.
how to quickly guess the column size
Hi,
I am looking for a quick way to guess the column size for a 3 story religious building. Need to put into a sketch drawing and do a quick 3d rendering.
Based on loads and several stress results, I guess I could use the American Institute of Steel chart to get the rough size for the column.
The structure frame would be steel rigid frame. The column grid generally is 16'x30', part of the grids is 60'x30' to accommodate a sanctuary.
My q is what is the process and formulas need to be used. For now, Can I guess the size would be 1'x1'?
Thanks for your input...
Are they doric or ionic columns?
for a quick rendering, it's probably only important to show where the column is, more so than it's exact size. column type and size will depend on the construction method, seismic zone, tributary loads, bending/buckling/shear, etc. if it's steel, just stick a 6x6 square tube in place, i'm sure that's just fine for your purposes. know your audience, i doubt they care about inches.
THAT, le bossman, is some good ass advice
decorative? Doesn't matter
structural? If your gonna guess, I'd just go as thin and as cheap as possible. I don't care what the loads are.
go the minimal route....with some minimal tekno's.....
no columns!
Le B: I think 6"x6" is way too slender even for aesthetic reason.
I would also use 6" tubes, but for the sanctuary space I would increase it to a 10" or 12"....
cmrhm has a good point though...it is a rendering and it needs to exaggerate some of the details a little bit, because if it is too slender it may get overlooked and somebody could question it later, but then again it is a steel building....so unless they are corinthian columns...they will not add any aesthetic value...
how could we know? he didn't show us a picture.
Thanks le bossman for getting it started. I found some reliable numbers according to ballast structure chapter.
high rise multistory building: 14" deep wide flange column
low rise to mid rise multistory building: 8" deep wide flange
The reason to use wide flange is because both sides with similar length will provide similar rigidity in both axes.
Do you guys know what does "deep" mean here?
yes, the web
You need to stop guessing at this.
on the fence: this is a good learning process for me, don't u think? use the real project, real deadline to improve the knowledge in structure area.
poop876: Thanks for your clarification.
Please help my understanding. for W12x?, the depth for this W shape ranges from 11" to 16", so the deep WF means we should choose sth closer to 16"?
lets say the wide flange (I beam) is W12x6, the beam height...or in your case the column depth is 12" and the flange (top of the I) itself is 6".
I'm not understanding your question. The beam (column) can range and it is all based on calculation of point loads, lateral loads, spans etc. etc. Now there is something nice and elegant when a beam or column is proportional...like 12x6, as opposed to a wide flange (I beam) being 12x12....then I would rather use a tube column!
I understand you are new to this, but please next time you post questions give us as many details as possible and of course images are always appreciated....We'd love to know what exactly you are working on, what type of columns you want to use (tubes, I beams, concrete)....then the answers may get a little bit more helpful.
Also, we'd love to know your background....are you a student? what year? etc. etc. because sometimes you will get hurt by answers....
I could have said "Shouldn't you fucking know that?" but then again I don't know how old you are and how long you have been in the field.....
So......
Cheers!
that's wrong, poop. in W12 x [X], the X stands for pounds per linear foot of steel. it has nothing to do with the width of the section. the W12 (roughly) stands for the depth of the section, but the W does not mean web; it means "wide flange" steel shape.
you are so right....as soon as I posted it I tried to get Paul to edit haha
I guess I got distracted by reading/typing/thinking oh my phone!
my bad!
oops, my bad, you are correct.
i guess we're both right then. there are fabricators that use the depth-width nomenclature you reference (i just googled it - nucor steel). i've just never run across it written like that on a structural drawing or a shop drawing before.
I should have been more specific...since we were talking about the sizes and not weight of the columns!
poop876: you properly confused about w12x? like W12x336 means.
W: wide flange
12: width of the flange
332: 332 pounds per linear foot.
"I could have said "Shouldn't you fucking know that?" but then again I don't know how old you are and how long you have been in the field.....
"
Cheers.
won: This kind of notes I can find on most of structure drawings.
read above!
"332: 332 pounds per linear foot"
I hope Oprah has a wide stride!
Yeah, that is some heavy beam
"You need to stop guessing at this."-onthefence
I dont understand why you archinectors are surprised that this topic is popping up? I mean we all know that firms are hiring people that don't know the answer to that question or people that know the answer to that question but are not drawing anything anymore. You guys better get used to these questions.
ps. the op is seriously needs to re read his structural class notes from college.
pray for an answer.
TaliesinAGG : 1'x1', it was already figured out. Thanks for the reply though.
The deeper the cheaper!
That's what she said.
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