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torr

you ask for $10k/yr (just a number for arguments sake) for a new job. but they give you $8k as your base salary and they say the other $2k will be split into 2 bonuses. so they say that your "estimated salary will be $10k".

is this a ligit system of pay? or a way to fight-off turnovers?

 
Nov 10, 04 7:48 pm
Devil Dog

are the bonuses discretionary? what form do the bonuses take shape? cash? ESOP or other type of contribution? separate bonuses are taxed differently than standard salary. . . usually higher.

i doubt it's a stategy to fight turn over because once they've been revealed as either not paying the bonus or that the bonus is less than expected, people have bad feelings and jump ship.

i would say it's more of a stratagey to hire without doing anymore interviews for a less than asked for wage in the hope you'll stick around for a while with the low salary they offered.

how can they possibly guarantee a bonus to you for $1000 each occurence when theres probably other employees who will not receive a bonus at all?

i would be skeptical of the promised bonus.

Nov 10, 04 8:08 pm  · 
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torr

the bonuses are discrestionary, but they are willing to put it writing that they will guarantee the 2 bonuses. they also give performance bonus, esop and profit sharing.

i know i am getting $10k with the bonus, but i will be getting $8K checks for 10 months out of the year.

so as an estimation, i will be getting 10k, but as a straight hard number, i feel i am not getting the 10k.

should i shop around?

Nov 10, 04 8:19 pm  · 
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Ormolu

If you have a written guarantee of the bonuses then you're getting the same amount you'd be getting if the 2k was divided up and doled out in your regular paychecks.

If you were being paid this amount as part of your regular salary then you could theoretically make a small amount more per year by investing it, because you'd have some of it sooner. Other than that there's really no difference. Your taxes will be the same, your year-end total will be the same, etc.
Of course it may be more difficult for you to budget your regular expenses on a lower salary until the bonuses come through.

Does the written guarantee state that you'll get some or all of these bonuses even if you leave short of a full year, or before the usual bonus disbursement date, or before some other set period of time? If there are limitations to what you can collect if you leave then yes, it could be seen as a tactic to discourage turnover. Such provisions really wouldn't be unreasonable on your employer's part, but if you're concerned if it's important to you to be able to collect even if you leave fairly soon then you should either try to renegotiate the guarantee, or you should try again to negotiate a higher regular salary - even if it means foregoing to the bonuses. The firm may be unwilling to to adjust this policy for you. It may be tied to cash flow issues.

If the total annual salary is acceptable to you, I'd base the decision more on whether I thought the firm was a good fit, whether the benefits are adequate, etc.

Nov 10, 04 10:38 pm  · 
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n3ar

That sounds like the Gensler salary system to me. In my opinion, that's not a very sincere way to propose bonus offers.
I think regardless of how they like to present it to you, maybe you just need to look at the bottom line, which is... How much you are really making per year?
Are your overtimes/holiday/paid vacation/sickdays also included in this overall number?

And let's say.. if the offer is a hard number of 10K (salary 8K + bonuses 2K). When they decide to give you a raise next year, will they consider 10% (this is random percentage) of 8K? or 10% of 10K - the hard number that you signed for?

Nov 11, 04 2:47 am  · 
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J3

apart from everything else...remember that bonuses get taxed differntly, so your take home pay will be much less.

Nov 11, 04 7:57 am  · 
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torr

n3ar, good guess and you make a good point about the raise percentage. i'll have to ask them that. i'm still mulling about this. all the benefits you listed, they are providing. actually they provided 16 days of paid time off, they don't split it into vacation/sick. you use it as you please. overtime is straight hourly.

i'm still concerned about the distribution of my base salary.

Nov 11, 04 8:35 am  · 
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el jeffe

J3 - how is a bonus is taxed differently?

Nov 11, 04 10:47 am  · 
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torr

christmans bonus/sign on are taxed at about 35-40%. your salary check is taxed around 23%. so when a company offers you a bouns, cut it down by half.

Nov 11, 04 10:54 am  · 
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Aluminate

Unless you're a partner in the firm, or the bonus(es) kick(s) you into the next tax bracket, bonuses are taxed exactly the same as salary. Sometimes it may appear that a bonus has been taxed at a higher rate, because if your regular salary has been taxed at a rate for one tax bracket, but the bonus will kick you up into the next bracket, then not only will the bonus be taxed at the higher rate but your firm may be taking out a "make up" amount to offset what they didn't take out of your salary up to this point to account for the higher bracket.

Nov 11, 04 11:48 am  · 
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J3

Yo is correct. All my bonuses have been taxed differently than my reg. pay. It has nothing to do with bumbing me to the next bracket. Supplemental pay is taxed higher up front. I have tried finding an explanation on the irs.gov site but have not been able to.

Nov 11, 04 11:58 am  · 
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R.A. Rudolph

Hmmm, I actually had bonuses taxed at a much lower rate... maybe it depends on the state or something. If I remember it was because only state or federal got taken out, don't remember which. So if the exact numbers are important to you you may wantt o talk to an accountant. Also, I don't get the "overtime is straight hourly". My understanding is if you are being paid hourly you should get time and a half for overtime. If you are salary they wouldn't need to pay you for the extra hours... You should find out how they are going to classify you, in terms of whether your position will be eligible for overtime, although as most of us have determined here if you have a professional degree you are probably exempt (CA is an exception, state laws trump federal ones). In any case, if you are looking at working for more corporate companies, they all offer bonuses (generally). If the pay at this place seems low, maybe it is. You can always try negotiating but if you haven't had a lot of work experience you may not have much bargaining power.

Nov 11, 04 12:07 pm  · 
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