mla? what is that.

a lot of the long hours comes from mis-managing time. as a mature student i would be surprised if you found it as challenging as the younger students.

i had two kids at home during master of architecture and then phd and managed to graduate top in class in my school and won award for best practicum project in canada (ok it is a small country, but still...), then won booby-prize for same project at archiprix (worlds best graduation projects blah blah etc). my lowest grade was an A, mostly had A+'s.

And i spent only office hours in studio. The rest of the time I worked from home - pretty much spent every evening at home for supper.

Apologies for narcissistic list of accomplishments but we all know none of the above actually matters in the real world, so i won't feel too bad about it...


Point is if anyone tells you studio and long hours is the only way to succeed do feel free to tell them go jump in lake.

-you get out of the program what you put in...
There are many people who manage to safely balance work/life demands successfully. I also have seen many people put in minimal hours and graduate with decent grades. I have also seen many people put in 100% of their time with bad grades. If your time management is decent it can be done in less time than you imagine. Some people will be overly ambitious and will sleep in studios to live/breathe design but others will not.
You should be prepared though as it does require a substantial amount of time especially if you are new to the field. The design process does not end so it teaches you to make decisions and focus on time management to find a way to a successful conclusion. If you want to maximize your learning and go all out that is one option, if not, then you will survive. I don't think school choice really matters though as they will always have both the overly-ambitious and the people who slide-by..Give it a try for a semester before you panic though.


DonQ- MLA I suppose is Masters of Landscape Architecture?

I wish they gave out A+s in my school.

Basically how much time you spend in school depends on your talents and abilities, as well as your personality. If you're really talented, maybe you won't have to spend so much time trying to figure out what the hell you're doing (which happens a lot of people it seems), or if you're really disciplined you can get in, do what you need to do, and get out at a reasonable time.

And yes, I would assume MLA means Landscape Arch.

yeah i went to easy canadian school. standards are much lower there ;-)

anyway, school is nothing as difficult as the work hours of office. i found it much easier to manage school as mature student after working for years in real world. seriously i wouldn't worry over it. just have fun. that is what school is for. it's a consequence free play zone!

Like jump points out, it is all about time management.


In grad school, I adopted the schedule I currently keep - in very, very early, don't leave until the evening and then you are done (for 80% of the day to day). Most of my colleagues did the the get in at 10-11, go home for dinner, back to the studio for late night (2-3am). I liked getting in when no one was there (like 6-7am), then leave at about 6-8pm, hit the gym on the way home.

Lotsa hours, but more or less a regular schedule. Deadlines where another thing altogether, though.


Also, it depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. I'd see people, grad and undergrad, that just would slap something together and head home.


I would disagree about the work world vs. school, though (could just be me), but I find the real world hours to be nothing near the intensity of school (then again, I am not in a traditional architecture career, either).


Good luck. You do get out what you put in, but be reasonable about your time management and you'll get more out of it and be less stressed.

trace and jump are absolutely right! It's all about time management.

When in undergraduate school, I did mess around and spent a lot of all nighters at school, but it is because I took my time getting to school (10/11 AM) then spent the nights in studios. Also it was fun, because I was meeting new people etc. But when I 'matured' a little bit and went to graduate school, I don't think I was ever in studio past 7 p.m.. I did take some work home and worked there, but that wasn't usually the case. I know for a fact that during 2 years of graduate school I only spent 2 all nighters and that was it. Even that wouldn't be necessary if I didn't push the work to the last few days and skipped the weekends to do other things.

I actually agree with the school/work world. When I was in studio for 8 hrs, I probably did about 4 hrs of work, while at work I did put about "8"....that is before facebook though. So if I took school work like the real world work, I think I would get more work done and spend less at school.

@redroad.

It is brutal and it's not. It really depends on how much discipline you have, I know somebody that had a full time job and every time they came to studio, he didn't socialize, just work work work.

I messed around a lot but that's part of the experience: going to the bar across the street when you don't want to work, go walking around at night, coffee runs etc...I do admit though that I would have finished with higher quality work if I hadn't messed that much.

In my opinion, you'll have plenty of time to spend it with your family but you'll need discipline (I know it's been talked to death but it really is an issue).

Don't forget to have fun, going to school for the 'degree' is only 1% of the experience.

The brain runs out of steam with a few hours of solid thinking and when that happens architects and architecture students just produce on auto pilot.

Reverse engineer what you want to produce and work towards that pretty much from mid - term onwards, if you can. Maintain relationships with profs but know that dumbly busting your ass is not necessary for that. Some of your instructors may even be younger than you, and the older ones, I have seen, are happy to have someone more mature around. Use your age as an asset to bring to the discussion what the 20 somethings can't. landscape architecture deals implicitly with time scales that are longer and you might be better placed to understand that. There is no substitute for production and skills, but its not necessary to run the rat race, one can be sane about it and Your grades will be fine.

Skills wise landscape architects don't get into CG and parametric stuff so you save a lot of time there. You'll learn other programs of the trade, but hopefully will have more time to deal, even in studio, with the design project at hand. If you see someone is good at renderings or programs you don't know, learn tricks from them early on. The less you struggle with production, the more time you can spend developing your work and the sooner you will be going home.

Perhaps once you decide where you're going, you can visit the school, find out what programs people use and learn some basics so you hit the ground running when you start the program. The school will also teach you software in the first semester, esp in a 3 yr program.

Also produce studio work with an eye to your portfolio if you're going to job hunt afterwards, so you're not not endlessly re-hashing the same stuff. But also know that the format of a portfolio and a presentation board is different so you're going to rework it anyway and you can add a few dwgs or renders here or there.

And my real two-bit: too many architecture students get blinkered by studio while there is a whole rich world out there in universities as you'd know from undergrad. Go to lectures (and not just in your department), have interesting conversations, devour the library and make friends.

All this I believe is possible at most schools. Yes there are schools that are overall more easygoing or more hardcore. The more hardcore ones will usually leave you with a degree that people regard highly in the field, UPenn, Hvd and a network of well placed alumni to tap throughout your life.

All the best to you!

I think it depends on the school. I'm currently back in school at an ivy league school and although I'm much better at time management than when I was younger- it's much more demanding than my previous master's program. I try to keep a schedule of 8-11/12 everyday (including weekends) but even with that it's hard to take breaks without getting off track. This means I haven't seen my boyfriend -whom I live with- much. I thought I could set limits to kind of balance life when I went into this but I'm realizing it's very difficult to maintain balance. Just understand that might happen to you as well -but hopefully I'm not the norm! Good luck!

dq, hahahhaha awesome.



op, whilst i welcome the life change at such a late point, im questioning not only 'why', but also 'WHY THE FUCK?'

whether you're going for an MLA or an MArch or a masters in anything, i guess, at 40, you really should question your motives prior to undertaking such an endeavor.

don't get me wrong, i applaud your willingness to go out on a limb and try something new, i really do.

however, these programs weren't ever designed for those with a wife/husband and 2 kids in grammar school, and nor should they be.

they were designed for people who are prepared to not spend a waking moment doing anything else. and isnt that the point? if i was going to spend 25K in less than 6 months, i would be sure to devote my full attention. if one is 40 years of age, can one really do that?

again, i applaud efforts, but i do think people need to think consciously about things. architecture is not an 'easy' profession.

i heard the average in ny is 11 years after graduation.

disgusting, i know.

Word of caution.

Hope you have an understanding spouse. I went back to school in my mid 20's as a single care-free guy and saw some of my classmates who were in exactly your position have a really tough time. The demands of a family plus graduate school will put you to the test. Some of these 40 somethings ended up getting divorced even before graduation.

oh come on.

i am in 40's now, but had family from grad-school on and if anything age only makes it easier, not harder.

speaking from experience, i finished phd at 39 and opened an architecture and planning office while working on dissertation. It was a LOT of work but i still read books to my children at night and never missed (and still don't miss) any school events. My relationship with my wife is, if anything, better than ever.

Right now I am working just as hard and my family is not suffering from it. Managing is not easy, granted, but it isn't THAT hard. Not sure what anyone here thinks life will be like after they leave school and get a job, but it doesn't get any easier. We all find ways to manage though.

So don't worry about it. School, even with a few all-nighters thrown in, is sooo much less stress-inducing than life in the real world. just enjoy it for what it is.

jump,
I usually tend to ignore people that say how much architecture education has a negative impact on relationship and personal life. I will use your comment, print it out and just give it to people that bitch about school.....

Thank you for bringing something positive to this thread and I'm glad to hear there are people out there that manage career and personal life with such a success!

Jump,
weren't you bored with less experienced ppl when in grad school? I suppose the others were 10-15 years younger, it must be annoying.

I went to UVA (MLA). From what I can remember, a fair number of students had families - including a couple that were pregnant during school. Time management, as everyone has noted, is key. We had a lot of older students in our MLA program at the time, and they set great examples for the rest of us in terms of not getting too caught up in the self-perpetuating myth that overnighters were required in what we do.

A healthy studio culture is an integral part of the experience - getting and receiving peer feedback, discussing readings/articles/blogs, sharing life experiences; so understanding that there will be some level of evening/night commitment is important. That being said, most of my peers with families spent dinner and a few hours each night to spend with their spouses and kids, then cam back to put in a couple of hours of quality work time.

Definitely look visit the schools you are interested in and see what the culture is like, some are more encouraging than others.

@archiwhat, no i wasnt bored with anyone. why would i be?

jump,
because of the age and experience difference, for example?

Stories are just stories.DO not be afraid because of some stories.
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no archiwhat i never really felt that.

perhaps it is because i just like people in general.

right now i am teaching students who are 20 years younger than me and almost never notice the age difference. they know a bit less than me, which is why i am teaching, but they are all bright and we can communicate just fine. when that becomes hard i guess it will be time to quit ;-)