You do realize that one single volcano can spew more climate changing CO2 than all the cars and factories that ever have been in existence ? It seems to me YOU are the one who doesn’t support fair discussion, not Ms. Baillieu. Her position, though in the minority, is still a valid position whereas yours seems more akin to a witchunt on behalf of the 3rd world for "criminals against humanity". If I had to pick the more dangerous rhetoric it would be your Javier. Even if climate change is real whether man made or not we can adapt. But to tell billions of people their problems are someone else's fault is akin to anarchy.

Can we adapt? We better adapt, and that's exactly the point of doing the work of science, but if you're going to stifle it, then we are doomed.

If you ask billions of people what they think or want (I wouldn't suggest you "tell them" anything, Jack, but that's beside the point), and they disagree with you, it's not democracy but "anarchy"?

You know exactly what Im talking about. Billions of people in tropical climates who've never even heard of global warming are being indoctrinated into the fight against it. These are your people who are fighting for their "climate rights". And if rights are being denied, then someone must be the deniers. So when the Al Gores and John Roe's (Excelon ) get their cap and trade and move all carbon belching industries to the third world where they can do what ever they want and be welcomed as heroes and they impoverish the evil westerners, we will be able to point to this age and say thats where the new Dark Ages began.

Your being used but your too educated to know it.

I see. You think we're stupid in the tropics and haven't heard of global warming.

And by the way, I never have defended 'can and trade'.

You’re just seething to turn this into a class / race / environmentalist issue aren’t you? Wouldn’t that be the ultimate protester's wet dream, a 3 for 1. Imagine how much you could save on signage. All those trees!!

No I dont think all the people in the tropics are stupid. I find it racist you would group all them together like that as if they were a single constituency. I do feel however there are places where a lack of education leaves billions ripe for thought exploitation. Even in America where a lack of contrarian thought leaves open the doors to thought control.

Jack, I don't know if you're into evidence or not, but you might want to look into some of your claims. For instance:
Grist
Snopes
Christian Science Monitor

Etc. etc. But something tells me facts don't matter very much here.

Jack, I find it utterly hilarious that you would call me a racist for grouping all of them together. Isn't that what you did. The other aspect of this is that I am from there. I am Puerto Rican so, yes, I do feel that to some extent I can speak for my own geographic region. It must seem threatening to you when we get too educated for our own good.

"You think we're stupid in the tropics and haven't heard of global warming"

If that doesn't imply a charge of racism to which I countered you in my next post by pointing out the fact that billions in the tropics, not all in the tropics, are being mislead, then Im not sure what does. You sir are the probing racist and your "climate rights" and your subtle accusations of Western Abuse will not be overlooked. I know what you folks(disclaimer folks is used to imply general undereducated neo hippies not Peurto Ricans, I know you all nowadays are so sensitive to words) are about and it's spreading unwarranted discontent for your own self grandiosity. Your agitators for the wrong reasons and causes. Apparently the education you received in Peurto Rico or wherever you were indoctrinated into media hype group think didn't prepare you to look at things critically for yourself or you wouldn't sound like such a rock the vote commercial.

Your friend's post to the 3 articles all stem from the same USGS volcano survey which surveys the known volcanoes they have monitoring stations at. What about all the undersea volcanoes and calderas and geysers? So maybe your average volcano doesnt erupt enough gas to make a measurable difference but every so often there are major events in history. And really, if the 370 or so CO2 parts per million we currently monitor are steadily increasing each year anyways how can you directly correlate that to humans only? Its believed we are only 3% of all CO2 emissions but if you want to believe, believe. I cant change your mind on a message board but your grandkids will thank guys like me.

Your NOT a climate scientist. Nor am I and this is an architecture website. If CO2 was a good insulator or modifies solar heat gain Id be seeing it in the products section, but I dont yet.

The argument above is exactly why I say that whether or not climate change is real "doesn't matter". I'm putting in quotes because as jump pointed out in the previous thread of course, yes, accurate science DOES matter. But an argument about the specifics of CO2 absorption does not, for the work of traditional architects, matter. We should be designing and building in a way that impacts the earth minimally. People can argue about racism and privilege for decades to come and nothing will change, or we can implement good, sustainable technology and design ideas right now. And THAT, Jack, is what your and my grandkids will thank us for later.

Jack, you are unable to spell "you are" as "you're" (ok, common enough mistake we all make), but you can't spell Puerto Ricans either. I'm no physical scientist but if you must know, I do my PhD work in a geography department where I work side-by-side with scientists that study the climate, and not to mention that our own department chair is one of the leading experts on glaciers and climate modeling. Is that hippie? I also was educated (previously) in one of the leading Cold War, right-wing (on many occasions) institutions in the world, MIT. But all those things are irrelevant. Your climate hypotheses are even dismissed by none other than the Pentagon of the US of A, That, to me, is the saddest part of this whole debacle. Even the most standard, imperialist, center institutions accept and even worry about climate change.

LB I was simply taking offense to the use of the terms "climate rights" and subtle hint that people of the tropics are suffering because of, well all of us. I agree buildings should be designed to maximize insulating properties, water usage and minimize material usage, that goes with out saying. But the ever present political and social culture battles on this site are infuriating.

Well Javier, maybe you should get a job and get out of school already then.

Jack, thank you. I really get it now. I don't mean that sarcastically. I now see why there is climate skepticism. You have crystalized it all too well. Taking responsibility for the planet's problems amounts to too much of an admittance of guilt for having caused them, and therefore opens up the possibility for too many claims. For architects, it's fine to build well and everyone feels morally warm and fuzzy inside. But accept that the environment is in a precarious state (to say the least), well, is too dangerous for the center. This map says it all. I see how it is, too. I'm overeducated. What a problem. And as for the content that I post being too political, well, what else would you call Amanda Baillieu if not political?

<i>What about all the undersea volcanoes and calderas and geysers?</i>

You're one step ahead of everybody, Jack.

By the way, Jack, one more thing about my job, or lackthereof, as you see it. I get paid to do research. Not a lot, like those climate denial thinktanks get paid. But it's my job. And maybe that is also too much of a problem for you.

somehow i suspect jack is not a real person, just a computer generated response-erator

...there are words, many spelled incorrectly, which seriously implies bad AI logic routine..but more than that there is no content at all. clearly this AI fails the Turing test and is therefore not human.

that's all.

let's see...

annual global land/sea volcano CO2: 200,000,000 tonnes
DOE's 2003 global CO2: 26,800,000,000 tonnes

so once again, science trumps jack's beliefs

why is it that jack lies so much?

also, CO2 can be an insulator:
icynene

blowing an exhaust-pipe or breathing in coal-fumes are evidently unhealthy exercises, so every way we can avoid using oil/coal to provide for our energy requirements should be applauded. but for me the problem begins when the so-called cure can be worse than the so-called disease, and wrong priorities are set. should we spend huge amounts of money and resources (that we don't have) to try and counter something that eventually will happen anyways, or do we accept the situation (whether caused by people or nature, that's not the issue) and adapt to it.

ooh, ooh. 2012 comes out this friday, and less than 3 years away, so we can alll stop arguing and start enjoying the par-tay!

"I’m all in favour of a good debate. And maybe that’s what Amanda wanted to spark with last week’s BD editorial, deriding the current government and the RIBA’s position on climate change. However, suggesting that we should seriously consider ‘the growing wealth of scientific evidence’ that climate change is not man-made, is utter nonsense..."

Read the full response of Hattie Hartman, Sustainability Editor of the Architects' Journal at:

http://blog.emap.com/footprint/

Thanks for that link, AJ. The final sentence sums it up well: Journalistic endeavour would be better spent showcasing pioneering projects and disseminating best practice.

Of course, journalistic endeavor may also want to look at how Amanda Baillieu's climate policy in BD affects the content of BD.

You middle class 'do-gooders' don;t know that your asking for!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6909046.ece


When your carbon ration have run out you will not be able to afford to heat your house never mind dropping into the local coffee house for a 'sneaky coffee' or a cross state trip to check out some new building.

You have been warned.

Global Warming is a con being used to restrict our freedoms.

Man playing with the weather:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091111/ts_afp/chinaweathersnow

This is happening also in the US and UK.


Search CHEMTRAILS.

zoolander: When your carbon ration have run out you will not be able to afford to heat your house never mind dropping into the local coffee house for a 'sneaky coffee' or a cross state trip to check out some new building.

Ironically, the Wall Street and the economy as it is already took care of that. You're late!

Im convinced your entire generation is batshit crazy.

Yeah, well then why ask for more chains when you're already overburdened!


And another thing,

if the government was really concerned with the economy they might postpone splashing billions into carbon offsets, etc, in an effort to reduce national debt.


Next the government will be banning all exercise, due to the unnecessary carbon produced.

zoolander, did you know that it costs more CO2 emmissions to walk than to go by car because of the way our food is produced:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article2195538.ece

does that mean we should all go by car or that we need to reconsider the production-methods of our food?

Random I believe that. Big suburban style grocers import and ship food by the ton where its easily transported as bulk cargo while local producer "farmer markets" require less tonage to be moved by more trucks. Just another way to "feel good" and ignore economies of scale - economic principles are more often in tune with environmental than not. After economics is the study of the sum total of all our actions wants and desires. The market distributes fairly and efficiently the longer its left to work.

Looks like another scientist agrees that volcanoes are part of the CO2 contributors

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6553592/Climate-change-sceptic-Ian-Plimer-argues-CO2-is-not-causing-global-warming.html

Id also like to point out that for all these years the "thousands of scientists" that agree global warming is man made are the same 2500 people of whom less than 20% are actual atmospheric scientists. The UN has totally dominated this debate since the late 1980s scarring everyone and it's time for real debate, not political pandering for research grants, talk show appearances, carbon credit wealth creation, 3rd world investment, anti-Western sentiment or any other BS floating around with all that CO2.

jacquelyn,

i'm convinced you can't spell (the UN is scarring people?!?)

or formulate a cohesive argument based on facts - without spewing whatever bullshit faux noise feeds you.

you won't find volcanologists or 'atmospheric scientists' saying volcanoes don't contribute CO2, they do. only about 1/100 of what man presently contributes.

debate is fine, but it must be legitimate debate - introduction of bogus claims without creidble research and backing don't allow legitimate debate.

i also find it hilarious you have no issue blaming the UN for 'dominating the debate' - but fail to recognize big industry, coal and politicians owned by these companies have been stifling and preventing actual research from being disseminated.

or as you'd probably write it, desemenated.

*credible

so I can go back to eating meat? which I stopped largely for this reason? Oh, I wish there was a simpler way to discerne, but it turns out data is as good as the way it's interpreted.
I hesitate to post this but here it is. Wouldn't it be nice if the earth would evolve to keep up with us? It doesn't change the fact that we are guilty as charged, people and corporations.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/10/bombshell-from-bristol-is-the-airborne-fraction-of-anthropogenic-co2-emissions-increasing-study-says-no/

hey jacquelyn,

you also (conveniently) forgot to mention that your poster boy of denialism, ian pilmer– is a geologist who happens to own three mining operations that would be decimated if australia adopted carbon trading. maybe that’s why his latest book is riddled full of lies, misrepresentations and bogus data…

Is that any worse than Al Gore who owns a hedge fund ready to trade carbon credits? I'll take the word of a man whose livelihood is being stolen from over the word of a fraud any day.

so you admit to taking the word of a a lying fraud like pilmer. awesome.

can't say i'm surprised... seriously, i think the batshit crazy one might be you. a little dose of reality would go a long way, jackie.

Holz.box,

Who made you a moral authority and english teacher in one fell swoop?

Go catch yourself on.

If you believe in this global warming trash do the honest thing and jump off a cliff, saving the world from all the polution you would produce in your lifetime.

Take your fellow greenies with you.

Dereck

randomized,

Food is transported massive distance, which is unnecessary.

However, in Europe, Ireland for example, farmers are paid by the EU NOT to produce food, hence the need for importing of various products.

Now, surley if governments believed in their own propaganda they would promote local framing providing for local communities.

This is not the case.

We are being conned by big government, anyone not indoctrinated can see the real reason behind every government action.

They tell us a good reason for doing something, then there is the real reason.


Dereck

Im followed football in the past, before it became corporate.

Last year, my local team jumped on the environmental band wagon, telling supporters to reduce carbon emissions.

Being a little pi$$ed with this propaganda, I thought I would play them at their own game. I contacted the club office and informed them that in an effort to reduce emissions as requested by the club I have convinced 50 family and friends not to travel to the next 2 games and complemented them on their efforts to reduce 'global warming'.

When they heard this news, (i.e. reduced profits) they had a fit, telling me that such action was not the intention of the campaign. I told them that i felt it was my duty to cut emissions.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Play these clowns at their own game. Its an economic system, do you voting with your feet and attitudes will soon change.