I'm graduating in June with a M.Arch degree. During my undergrad I worked part time for 2 years in two architecture firms and after my undergrad I worked with a large firm in Dubai, UAE as a Designer Architect/ Intern Architect. I also have good design skills. Also I can create High end animation and renderings in 3ds Max and V-Ray. I worked with Revit for more than 3 years and I'm pretty good at it. I also nominated for more than 8 architecture competitions. I had an interview with a small firm (5 total) in upstate NY firm today and they liked my skills, design and portfolio. They told me they are hiring hourly and they are paying an intern architect between 12$-15$ an hour. I'm so pissed. Are they joking? I looked at AIA compensation report and it says the average salary for an intern architect is $39000 per year. they offered me the job today and I told them I'm going to think about it. What should I do? should I negotiate or decline?
accesskb
Apr 16, 14 8:59 pm
hey.. I interned at a few firms and the my first pay as an arch intern was $16/hr and that was the summer after one year of undergrad. I hadn't even opened autocad yet :) Ofcourse you should be pissed and negotiate for more, or better yet look at another firm that will appreciate your work. Maybe start with this firm and take off the moment you land another job.
pale shelter
Apr 17, 14 12:22 am
be aware that nationally the minimum wage will be reaching $10/hour; at least my state just passed $10.50 or so to begin in a couple years. Doesn't make having a college degree out to much advantage now does it?! - at least in Architecture. I made $11/hr back in 2006 while in college - $12 in 2007 - $22 in 2008 1st job. Look at the recent 2014 Design Intelligence compensation report; architect pay has remained nearly unchanged since the recession in 2008. (queue comments on stating that is reflective of the entire economy). Also, look at national averages for any 4-year college student graduate; it's roughly $47k starting pay.
I'm just venting some of my own frustration here of course, but don't expect great pay... the profession is perhaps reaching historical lows in compensation (in comparison to other college degrees and educational attainment, licensure requirements, wage vs. inflation, etc). I learned my first WTF moment when I worked for a national AIA firm of the year back in 2010; with 3 years of experience, they paid me $12/hour on contract to hire. Now, after 7 years of experience, the WTF moments have piled up...getting out asap. Again, don't expect money for 15 years... and by then your 24 year old cousin with a generic business degree will be matching your pay. lol . good luck? My estimate is 1:9 architects make decent money ($90k+); having 1:99 make very good money ($250k+). But be careful when negotiating, money is taboo in this industry... and there are no incentives in place to make more either.
accesskb
Apr 17, 14 12:54 am
bbbbut it isn't about the money.. Its the job satisfaction *fake smile* *tear*
stashako
Apr 17, 14 7:30 pm
Thanks guys for your information. I have several interviews in Miami area. I'm looking forward to them :)
Joseph Wassell
Apr 17, 14 10:32 pm
The offer they are making is most likely based on what they can use you for. I can't get a sense of what markets they are in, or what they do based on your post, but I'm willing to guess that they aren't doing animations or high quality renderings. They may not even be using Revit, 3ds or vray, which would mean that those skills won't translate into either revenue or profit directly.
I don't want to dwell on that particular firm without knowing more about them and the work they do, but given the size and the offer, I would imagine it is simply that they cannot utilize what you are able to bring to the table.
This is an optimistic position. I want to believe that the type of person they were looking to attract with the ad they placed, would be making that amount of money at any firm in a comparable market, and that you are simply overqualified for the firms current needs.
grneggandsam
Apr 18, 14 9:59 am
" the profession is perhaps reaching historical lows in compensation (in comparison to other college degrees and educational attainment, licensure requirements, wage vs. inflation, etc)."
This field comes in waves. The firm owners make money when their is money to be made, and lay everyone off when there isn't. Then they lobby to make it more difficult to become an owner (unless you are related to one). Crony capitalism is all it is...
grneggandsam
Apr 18, 14 10:12 am
I should add - there are exceptions. From what I've witnessed, big institutions (government, healthcare, and developers) don't care about how you treat your employees. So, big firms get away with this easier. At least developers care about the quality of the end product, which relies on employee morale - the gov mostly just looks at experience and the paper work you fill out.
Maureen Rahman
Apr 21, 14 12:58 pm
Im starting at 24k/yr at BIG. I had 6 months post graduate experience at ADEPT and 3 post undergrad at a fairly unknown firm in the suburbs of Chicago.
I'm 3 months in and officially have 1 years experience. 24k seems a little low but perhaps it will be worth it. It's not per hour, it's salary. And I'm in this for 15 more months before they consider a permanent position.
So yeah, it's hard. But I love my job.
grneggandsam
Apr 21, 14 2:28 pm
You, my friend, must be a masochist.
grneggandsam
Apr 21, 14 2:31 pm
I love BIG - but that is outrageous. I hope I'm not offending anyone - but seriously, that just seems low/crass of them to be offering such "employment". I hope some people there actually make decent salaries... besides the owners...
Beepbeep
Apr 21, 14 2:42 pm
Wow you are getting used! people at taco bell make more than that and ole BIGGIE boy comes from a rich ass family to start he can afford to pay you more.
LITS4FormZ
Apr 21, 14 2:58 pm
So at what point do you get a raise to minimum wage?
This profession is a joke.
med.
Apr 21, 14 4:43 pm
In new York city you will neither get job satisfaction nor the money. Just a bunch fo assholes who will demoralize you, rape you of your dignity and sanity, and then leave you out to dry.
Seriously some of the numbers I heard throughout are simply unbelievable. How the fuck is anyone supposed to live off 24k a year in NYC?
spqr
Apr 21, 14 6:00 pm
You can make twice that much if you find the right place
I started in NYC in 2006 with a B.Arch from a state school making $45000 plus full health insurance. The firm was an AIA Firm of the Year recipient and respected its employees. If new, quality graduates demanded that or more as a minimum, then the entire profession would be better off. Unfortunately, too many are willing to live in poverty or off of their parents and it makes architecture undervalued as a profession. If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
spqr
Apr 22, 14 10:44 am
amen
grneggandsam
Apr 22, 14 11:34 am
If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
I totally agree, but unfortunately there is no "architectural intern / CAD monkey's union"...
grneggandsam
Apr 22, 14 12:03 pm
given the scale of architecture firms - it seems more practical to ease licensing requirements to distribute earnings over a broader group of owners. We're not mass producing fords over here...
accesskb
Apr 22, 14 12:24 pm
BIG pays a measly 24k/year.. A well know firm like BIG who seems to be winning big projects. wow! I won't even imagine what small firms who get a fraction of projects compared to BIG pay their employees.
accesskb
Apr 22, 14 12:34 pm
If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
I totally agree, but unfortunately there is no "architectural intern / CAD monkey's union"...
Truth is, there are way too many incompetent people in our profession, those who're good at creating fancy renderings and fake their way through with big talk. Our profession is no engineering discipline where productivity and results can be measured. But there is no justification for such low pays once one has obtained their license. Hopefully BIG paying 24k/year is just for the probation period and it doubles or triples if hired as a permanent employee. :/
Maureen Rahman
Apr 22, 14 12:38 pm
Yeah like I said it's hard. But I'd rather be doing this for a little while than that corporate banal garbage other high profile larger firms offer for higher pay. I can wait a year for this to pay off.
BulgarBlogger
Apr 22, 14 1:48 pm
The profession is not a joke... Schools are a joke....
I'm graduating in June with a M.Arch degree. During my undergrad I worked part time for 2 years in two architecture firms and after my undergrad I worked with a large firm in Dubai, UAE as a Designer Architect/ Intern Architect. I also have good design skills. Also I can create High end animation and renderings in 3ds Max and V-Ray. I worked with Revit for more than 3 years and I'm pretty good at it. I also nominated for more than 8 architecture competitions. I had an interview with a small firm (5 total) in upstate NY firm today and they liked my skills, design and portfolio. They told me they are hiring hourly and they are paying an intern architect between 12$-15$ an hour. I'm so pissed. Are they joking? I looked at AIA compensation report and it says the average salary for an intern architect is $39000 per year. they offered me the job today and I told them I'm going to think about it. What should I do? should I negotiate or decline?
hey.. I interned at a few firms and the my first pay as an arch intern was $16/hr and that was the summer after one year of undergrad. I hadn't even opened autocad yet :) Ofcourse you should be pissed and negotiate for more, or better yet look at another firm that will appreciate your work. Maybe start with this firm and take off the moment you land another job.
be aware that nationally the minimum wage will be reaching $10/hour; at least my state just passed $10.50 or so to begin in a couple years. Doesn't make having a college degree out to much advantage now does it?! - at least in Architecture. I made $11/hr back in 2006 while in college - $12 in 2007 - $22 in 2008 1st job. Look at the recent 2014 Design Intelligence compensation report; architect pay has remained nearly unchanged since the recession in 2008. (queue comments on stating that is reflective of the entire economy). Also, look at national averages for any 4-year college student graduate; it's roughly $47k starting pay.
I'm just venting some of my own frustration here of course, but don't expect great pay... the profession is perhaps reaching historical lows in compensation (in comparison to other college degrees and educational attainment, licensure requirements, wage vs. inflation, etc). I learned my first WTF moment when I worked for a national AIA firm of the year back in 2010; with 3 years of experience, they paid me $12/hour on contract to hire. Now, after 7 years of experience, the WTF moments have piled up...getting out asap. Again, don't expect money for 15 years... and by then your 24 year old cousin with a generic business degree will be matching your pay. lol . good luck? My estimate is 1:9 architects make decent money ($90k+); having 1:99 make very good money ($250k+). But be careful when negotiating, money is taboo in this industry... and there are no incentives in place to make more either.
bbbbut it isn't about the money.. Its the job satisfaction *fake smile* *tear*
Thanks guys for your information. I have several interviews in Miami area. I'm looking forward to them :)
The offer they are making is most likely based on what they can use you for. I can't get a sense of what markets they are in, or what they do based on your post, but I'm willing to guess that they aren't doing animations or high quality renderings. They may not even be using Revit, 3ds or vray, which would mean that those skills won't translate into either revenue or profit directly.
I don't want to dwell on that particular firm without knowing more about them and the work they do, but given the size and the offer, I would imagine it is simply that they cannot utilize what you are able to bring to the table.
This is an optimistic position. I want to believe that the type of person they were looking to attract with the ad they placed, would be making that amount of money at any firm in a comparable market, and that you are simply overqualified for the firms current needs.
" the profession is perhaps reaching historical lows in compensation (in comparison to other college degrees and educational attainment, licensure requirements, wage vs. inflation, etc)."
This field comes in waves. The firm owners make money when their is money to be made, and lay everyone off when there isn't. Then they lobby to make it more difficult to become an owner (unless you are related to one). Crony capitalism is all it is...
I should add - there are exceptions. From what I've witnessed, big institutions (government, healthcare, and developers) don't care about how you treat your employees. So, big firms get away with this easier. At least developers care about the quality of the end product, which relies on employee morale - the gov mostly just looks at experience and the paper work you fill out.
Im starting at 24k/yr at BIG. I had 6 months post graduate experience at ADEPT and 3 post undergrad at a fairly unknown firm in the suburbs of Chicago.
I'm 3 months in and officially have 1 years experience. 24k seems a little low but perhaps it will be worth it. It's not per hour, it's salary. And I'm in this for 15 more months before they consider a permanent position.
So yeah, it's hard. But I love my job.
You, my friend, must be a masochist.
I love BIG - but that is outrageous. I hope I'm not offending anyone - but seriously, that just seems low/crass of them to be offering such "employment". I hope some people there actually make decent salaries... besides the owners...
Wow you are getting used! people at taco bell make more than that and ole BIGGIE boy comes from a rich ass family to start he can afford to pay you more.
So at what point do you get a raise to minimum wage?
This profession is a joke.
In new York city you will neither get job satisfaction nor the money. Just a bunch fo assholes who will demoralize you, rape you of your dignity and sanity, and then leave you out to dry.
Seriously some of the numbers I heard throughout are simply unbelievable. How the fuck is anyone supposed to live off 24k a year in NYC?
You can make twice that much if you find the right place
$24,000 a year in NYC is equal to around $13,500 in Pittsburgh: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
I started in NYC in 2006 with a B.Arch from a state school making $45000 plus full health insurance. The firm was an AIA Firm of the Year recipient and respected its employees. If new, quality graduates demanded that or more as a minimum, then the entire profession would be better off. Unfortunately, too many are willing to live in poverty or off of their parents and it makes architecture undervalued as a profession. If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
amen
If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
I totally agree, but unfortunately there is no "architectural intern / CAD monkey's union"...
given the scale of architecture firms - it seems more practical to ease licensing requirements to distribute earnings over a broader group of owners. We're not mass producing fords over here...
BIG pays a measly 24k/year.. A well know firm like BIG who seems to be winning big projects. wow! I won't even imagine what small firms who get a fraction of projects compared to BIG pay their employees.
If young talent stops working for peanuts, then firms will have to pay up to stay relevant. Don't let yourself be abused.
I totally agree, but unfortunately there is no "architectural intern / CAD monkey's union"...
Truth is, there are way too many incompetent people in our profession, those who're good at creating fancy renderings and fake their way through with big talk. Our profession is no engineering discipline where productivity and results can be measured. But there is no justification for such low pays once one has obtained their license. Hopefully BIG paying 24k/year is just for the probation period and it doubles or triples if hired as a permanent employee. :/
Yeah like I said it's hard. But I'd rather be doing this for a little while than that corporate banal garbage other high profile larger firms offer for higher pay. I can wait a year for this to pay off.
The profession is not a joke... Schools are a joke....