has anyone ever done this? I would like to purchase a legitimate autocad license and thought I might see if anything existed on ebay.. and it does. so I'm considering it, but I don't really know if it's legitimate or not.
does anyone have experience with this?
LITS4FormZ
Jun 19, 12 7:07 pm
You get what you pay for, just like with everything else in life.
Janosh
Jun 19, 12 10:02 pm
There was a lawsuit betwixt an Ebay AutoCAD reseller and the charming individuals at AutoDesk. IIRC, Autodesk held that no one owns their software (and thus can't sell it) - they just grant you permission to use it for a price.
Right. So if you can't buy a legitimate version of AutoCAD from Ebay, then it's morally justifiable to pirate it. You want to pay for the product. You're willing to fairly compensate the product owner and everything. It's just that the people who wrote the laws didn't think through how ownership should work and neglected the end user. After all, people like AutoCAD or the MPAA/RIAA can afford do buy laws whereas people like you or me likely can't.
I should clarify the "morally justifiable" part. At some point you have to determine the difference between 'right' and 'wrong.' It's usually best to do the right thing. You probably have a local church or aristocracy that would be happy to define that for you. However, they're designation of 'right' and 'wrong' is generally developed to serve their own interest. I would suggest you define 'right' and 'wrong' by asking me, since I tend to not be as self-centered and greedy as other organizations. Until the courts agree that purchasing software is a transfer of property rather than a limited license, non-violent disobedience is acceptable because it's the government that screwed up, not you or the guy on ebay. Obviously you should be prepared for the possibility of being punished for doing the right thing.
I would also like to point out the flaws in the "you get what you pay for" comment. This is perhaps part of the reason why our legislators apparently lack the competence to write reasonable laws. You can get that copy of AutoCAD from multiple sources for multiple prices. You can get it directly from Autodesk (maybe, I'm not sure) or your local reseller, or newegg. You can also get it from Ebay, or a street vendor in China. You can also download a pirate or copy your friend's pirate. It's probably the exact same 1s and 0s (unless a middle-man added content). Sometimes, as is the case with Ebay, it's the exact same CD and box you get from the original distributor. There is no loss in copying, no matter how many times it's copied. It's not like the Chinese vendor is using cheaper/inferior paper to reprint a book, or eliminating color and making it cheaper by printing black and white. It's not like an i-phone knockoff with cheaper parts. It's an exact duplicate. You get the same thing no matter what the source, even if it's an AutoCAD license that someone else previously used and has now moved on so they want to sell their old license, which they're not using anymore, on Ebay.
i r giv up
Jun 20, 12 9:52 am
first-sale doctrine: it's legal. no need for walls of text.
curtkram
Jun 20, 12 10:34 am
First-sale only applies to copyrighted property, like a book. Sometimes when you buy something like software, you're not buying property. Instead, you're buying a license. First-sale does not apply when you're buying a license to something.
If you didn't read the wikipedia article you linked to, following is a summary of the effects of Vernor v. Autocad:
Below is a pdf of the 9th circuit court opinion that vacated the district court's grant of summary judgement. I'm pretty sure this case is still ongoing and will at some point be heard by the US Supreme court, but this should be the most recent ruling:
^--- that's the deal with AutoCAD and it's licensing. I'm pretty sure you can't legally buy anything that's more than 3 versions old. We're still using 2007 at my office for various reasons, and this caused us some trouble since we had a subscription. We have more recent versions of AutoCAD, but we just don't like them. At one point our AutoCADs started shutting down because our license was up (it was paid for, but they wanted us on AutoCAD 2010). We called them and worked through it. I was unable to find an actual statement from AutoCAD, so I could be wrong. If anyone has a link I'd like to see it.
The legality would be simpler if you were buying property, and the 'first-use' doctrine applied. As shown above, this is still kind of in court limbo and there has been no clear legislation one way or the other. The most recent opinion is that Autodesk gets whatever they want, which includes the fact that you can only buy AutoCAD from people Autodesk approve of.
LITS4FormZ
Jun 20, 12 11:56 am
I purchased a copy of windows 7 on amazon, seller had a solid feedback rating, package appeared to be sealed...surprise...license was already in use. I was in a jam abroad so I just cracked it and still use it today. Do I think he knew it was a bad license? Probably not. But when you're dealing in the second-hand market you get what you pay for more often than not.
Want legitimate software? Then pony up the money and go to Autodesk or an authorized re-seller.
Jun 20, 12 12:11 pm
Softwarez suck! Pencil and paper till I die, bitchez!!!
Vive le résistance, yo!!!
i r giv up
Jun 20, 12 1:43 pm
quoting me gets me aroused.
alec1313
Jun 21, 12 11:36 am
I think if Autodesk wants people to stop pirating their software, they should make it cheap enough for people to actually buy. The cheaper you make something, the less likely the normal everyday, "good", person would pirate it. Would I be more willing to buy a $3,000 software than a $7,000? you bet. Do I think they could sell 3x more copies at a cheaper price than 1 at the higher cost? Personally, yes. I've been at firms where people used laptops instead of desktops, so they were able to stretch 1 licence into 2 because the laptop could be considered a secondary device even though it was someone else's primary machine. Good way to get around buying more seats.
Buying from Autodesk directly also makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible) for the self-starter to get something going because right off the bat, you're in the hole $7,000. Usually you try to start up a company as cheaply as possible. I know I personally can't afford that right away...written off of taxes or not, thats still a lot of capital to pony up right away (back to hand drawing until I can afford the software!).
What I REALLY don't understand, is the relationship between Autocad Architecture and Revit. Last time I priced it out, if you bought JUST autocad arch it was $5,000. If you bought JUST Revit, it was $5,500. If you bought the suite which included BOTH Autocad Arch AND Revit, it was $6,000. Can someone explain this one to me in a way that makes me want to NOT pirate the software? How can a $5,000 program be added onto another for 1/5 of the original price? The markup on either of these programs is THAT significant?? I call a foul :)
Let's not forget this is a country supposedly built be self-starters and entrepreneurs. Those whose ideas and motivation allowed them to start from nothing and turn it into something big! So let's overprice our software to squash that idea before it even gets out of the gate. If it does happen to get out of the gate, we'll just make them pay the extra 8% in social security tax because they dont have an employer and want to try and do something themselves. Love this country...built on small business and those are the one's getting punished the most right now.
Sorry for the rant.
i r giv up
Jun 22, 12 4:08 pm
i like that rhino's educational license converts to a commercial license as soon as you graduate.
garethcooper9
Jun 29, 12 4:41 am
For the last three years I have purchased more than 3 pieces of software from Amazon sellers and I never had a problem. I guess I had a bit better luck than LITS4FormZ
snook_dude
Jun 29, 12 7:32 am
I love going head to head with people who pirate software from a company they work for, then go off on their own and sell their services to other Architects who are themselves to cheap to go out and buy a license. I have run across this more than once. I hate AutoDesk with a passion. They are sorta like that other Organization NCARB, but that is a whole other conversation, I don't want to get started on Friday.
trace™
Jun 30, 12 10:12 am
Get the serial number and call Autodesk. I bought my first copy of Max, many years ago, from a guy that won it in a contest (he was a Softimage user). As long as it was never registered, you are ok, but AD will f'ck you if you think you can transfer a license.
No reason you can't get something, just don't expect a great deal unless it is something like my prior situation (where the guy was asking somethign, I offered half and he took it)
SHouston
Jul 18, 13 8:12 pm
youngarchi
I am looking to transfer my Architecture Suite copy of Autocad 2013 and Revit 2013.
I bought it from an architecture software company here in SF. I bought it for my company Urban Matters, which I closed. I bought it at it's full price as I wanted a legit copy. I am looking to transfer my license to a new owner. It's not a subscription, meaning it's just the 2013 version, doesn't come with upgrades. I have received pricing from the company of what it would cost to upgrade or go to a subscription based license with the current license that I have and would be willing to share this info if you are interested.
I have discussed this with the company that I bought it from and they stated that this is a simple procedure, but does require paperwork - and a request for permission, but I've been reassured that it would be easy to do. I was planning on doing this with my sister and past employer, but they have decided that they do not need the extra copy of the software at this time.
If you or anyone else is interested, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]. Thanks!
JCtheGreat
Apr 24, 14 12:16 am
"And just like that, Autodesk lost its battle against resold software in EU"
@curtkram - Rubbish... Its a closed shop unless you pirate... you have to be a successful architect in order to be able to afford the buggy software to become any old architect.
has anyone ever done this? I would like to purchase a legitimate autocad license and thought I might see if anything existed on ebay.. and it does. so I'm considering it, but I don't really know if it's legitimate or not.
does anyone have experience with this?
You get what you pay for, just like with everything else in life.
There was a lawsuit betwixt an Ebay AutoCAD reseller and the charming individuals at AutoDesk. IIRC, Autodesk held that no one owns their software (and thus can't sell it) - they just grant you permission to use it for a price.
enjoy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
Right. So if you can't buy a legitimate version of AutoCAD from Ebay, then it's morally justifiable to pirate it. You want to pay for the product. You're willing to fairly compensate the product owner and everything. It's just that the people who wrote the laws didn't think through how ownership should work and neglected the end user. After all, people like AutoCAD or the MPAA/RIAA can afford do buy laws whereas people like you or me likely can't.
I should clarify the "morally justifiable" part. At some point you have to determine the difference between 'right' and 'wrong.' It's usually best to do the right thing. You probably have a local church or aristocracy that would be happy to define that for you. However, they're designation of 'right' and 'wrong' is generally developed to serve their own interest. I would suggest you define 'right' and 'wrong' by asking me, since I tend to not be as self-centered and greedy as other organizations. Until the courts agree that purchasing software is a transfer of property rather than a limited license, non-violent disobedience is acceptable because it's the government that screwed up, not you or the guy on ebay. Obviously you should be prepared for the possibility of being punished for doing the right thing.
I would also like to point out the flaws in the "you get what you pay for" comment. This is perhaps part of the reason why our legislators apparently lack the competence to write reasonable laws. You can get that copy of AutoCAD from multiple sources for multiple prices. You can get it directly from Autodesk (maybe, I'm not sure) or your local reseller, or newegg. You can also get it from Ebay, or a street vendor in China. You can also download a pirate or copy your friend's pirate. It's probably the exact same 1s and 0s (unless a middle-man added content). Sometimes, as is the case with Ebay, it's the exact same CD and box you get from the original distributor. There is no loss in copying, no matter how many times it's copied. It's not like the Chinese vendor is using cheaper/inferior paper to reprint a book, or eliminating color and making it cheaper by printing black and white. It's not like an i-phone knockoff with cheaper parts. It's an exact duplicate. You get the same thing no matter what the source, even if it's an AutoCAD license that someone else previously used and has now moved on so they want to sell their old license, which they're not using anymore, on Ebay.
first-sale doctrine: it's legal. no need for walls of text.
First-sale only applies to copyrighted property, like a book. Sometimes when you buy something like software, you're not buying property. Instead, you're buying a license. First-sale does not apply when you're buying a license to something.
If you didn't read the wikipedia article you linked to, following is a summary of the effects of Vernor v. Autocad:
http://www.stlr.org/2010/11/vernor-v-autodesk-and-the-end-of-the-first-sale-doctrine/
Below is a pdf of the 9th circuit court opinion that vacated the district court's grant of summary judgement. I'm pretty sure this case is still ongoing and will at some point be heard by the US Supreme court, but this should be the most recent ruling:
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/10/09-35969.pdf
also, to quote i r giv up in an earlier unrelated post:
willful ignorance is the sort of irresponsibility that will lead to be an ordinary architect.
good luck with that.
I suggest something like this:
http://www.softwaregold.net/cheap-Autocad-2005.html
I've never tried it, but I'm pretty sure it's legal, certainly better then pirating
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=10235425
^--- that's the deal with AutoCAD and it's licensing. I'm pretty sure you can't legally buy anything that's more than 3 versions old. We're still using 2007 at my office for various reasons, and this caused us some trouble since we had a subscription. We have more recent versions of AutoCAD, but we just don't like them. At one point our AutoCADs started shutting down because our license was up (it was paid for, but they wanted us on AutoCAD 2010). We called them and worked through it. I was unable to find an actual statement from AutoCAD, so I could be wrong. If anyone has a link I'd like to see it.
The legality would be simpler if you were buying property, and the 'first-use' doctrine applied. As shown above, this is still kind of in court limbo and there has been no clear legislation one way or the other. The most recent opinion is that Autodesk gets whatever they want, which includes the fact that you can only buy AutoCAD from people Autodesk approve of.
I purchased a copy of windows 7 on amazon, seller had a solid feedback rating, package appeared to be sealed...surprise...license was already in use. I was in a jam abroad so I just cracked it and still use it today. Do I think he knew it was a bad license? Probably not. But when you're dealing in the second-hand market you get what you pay for more often than not.
Want legitimate software? Then pony up the money and go to Autodesk or an authorized re-seller.
Softwarez suck! Pencil and paper till I die, bitchez!!!
Vive le résistance, yo!!!
quoting me gets me aroused.
I think if Autodesk wants people to stop pirating their software, they should make it cheap enough for people to actually buy. The cheaper you make something, the less likely the normal everyday, "good", person would pirate it. Would I be more willing to buy a $3,000 software than a $7,000? you bet. Do I think they could sell 3x more copies at a cheaper price than 1 at the higher cost? Personally, yes. I've been at firms where people used laptops instead of desktops, so they were able to stretch 1 licence into 2 because the laptop could be considered a secondary device even though it was someone else's primary machine. Good way to get around buying more seats.
Buying from Autodesk directly also makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible) for the self-starter to get something going because right off the bat, you're in the hole $7,000. Usually you try to start up a company as cheaply as possible. I know I personally can't afford that right away...written off of taxes or not, thats still a lot of capital to pony up right away (back to hand drawing until I can afford the software!).
What I REALLY don't understand, is the relationship between Autocad Architecture and Revit. Last time I priced it out, if you bought JUST autocad arch it was $5,000. If you bought JUST Revit, it was $5,500. If you bought the suite which included BOTH Autocad Arch AND Revit, it was $6,000. Can someone explain this one to me in a way that makes me want to NOT pirate the software? How can a $5,000 program be added onto another for 1/5 of the original price? The markup on either of these programs is THAT significant?? I call a foul :)
Let's not forget this is a country supposedly built be self-starters and entrepreneurs. Those whose ideas and motivation allowed them to start from nothing and turn it into something big! So let's overprice our software to squash that idea before it even gets out of the gate. If it does happen to get out of the gate, we'll just make them pay the extra 8% in social security tax because they dont have an employer and want to try and do something themselves. Love this country...built on small business and those are the one's getting punished the most right now.
Sorry for the rant.
i like that rhino's educational license converts to a commercial license as soon as you graduate.
For the last three years I have purchased more than 3 pieces of software from Amazon sellers and I never had a problem. I guess I had a bit better luck than LITS4FormZ
I love going head to head with people who pirate software from a company they work for, then go off on their own and sell their services to other Architects who are themselves to cheap to go out and buy a license. I have run across this more than once. I hate AutoDesk with a passion. They are sorta like that other Organization NCARB, but that is a whole other conversation, I don't want to get started on Friday.
Get the serial number and call Autodesk. I bought my first copy of Max, many years ago, from a guy that won it in a contest (he was a Softimage user). As long as it was never registered, you are ok, but AD will f'ck you if you think you can transfer a license.
No reason you can't get something, just don't expect a great deal unless it is something like my prior situation (where the guy was asking somethign, I offered half and he took it)
youngarchi
I am looking to transfer my Architecture Suite copy of Autocad 2013 and Revit 2013.
I bought it from an architecture software company here in SF. I bought it for my company Urban Matters, which I closed. I bought it at it's full price as I wanted a legit copy. I am looking to transfer my license to a new owner. It's not a subscription, meaning it's just the 2013 version, doesn't come with upgrades. I have received pricing from the company of what it would cost to upgrade or go to a subscription based license with the current license that I have and would be willing to share this info if you are interested.
I have discussed this with the company that I bought it from and they stated that this is a simple procedure, but does require paperwork - and a request for permission, but I've been reassured that it would be easy to do. I was planning on doing this with my sister and past employer, but they have decided that they do not need the extra copy of the software at this time.
If you or anyone else is interested, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]. Thanks!
"And just like that, Autodesk lost its battle against resold software in EU"
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2012/07/autodesks-loses-battle-against-resold-software-in-eu.html
Can this wonderful news be true?
JC
@curtkram - Rubbish... Its a closed shop unless you pirate... you have to be a successful architect in order to be able to afford the buggy software to become any old architect.