I have been smoking grass on and off since I graduated from university. Sometimes I smoke once a week, and sometimes it is a couple of times a day. The last 1/4 oz (7.5 grams) I bought lasted me about 6 months which is probably stretching it out a little more than I would have liked. I’d say a healthy average for me is 1/4 oz over 4 months. I never smoke before I go work, or at lunch; it is more of an after work or weekend thing. I prefer smoking to drinking (maybe having a beer or glass of wine or two a week) and don’t use any other drugs.
I knew this guy who worked for Frank Gehry back in the 80’s who told me stories of Frank coming out of rooms with clouds of smoke behind him. I know not everything one person does is good for another. So I am not at all trying to say by smoking grass I will be a famous architect. However, do you think smoking grass will make me a bad architect? Would you be concerned as an employer if you knew your employee was smoking grass? Would you have the same concern if they were drinking wine or beer everyday? Do you feel there is a difference between smoking grass and drinking? For example I see there is a difference between smoking crack and drinking, or heroin and drinking. I see most other drugs in a much different light than i see marijuana. I see grass and drinking in pretty much the same light but because of the public image of marijuana I am not secure in my belief. I would not be comfortable talking about smoking grass with my boss but I would have no problem telling them about a beer I drank the day before.
Part of the reason I am posting this is because I have seen some friends of mine smoke too much. They have slow down, and a couple that are addicted (at least I think so). I am worried the same might happen to me. Meanwhile I see a lot of other friends growing out of these phases. I know there are other areas of my life where I must grow-up. Should this be one of them?
Nevermore
Dec 12, 06 3:38 am
Apurimac
Dec 12, 06 4:27 am
To each his own man. Some people get work/creative highs by smoking certain types of weed, and their work definately doesn't suffer for it. Some people get completely stoned out and cant function, although you'd probably need to smoke alot to get to that phase. Don't let the BS about drugs propagated by society make you think its an "immature" practice.
Mulholland Drive
Dec 12, 06 5:41 am
How many foyers were in your last project?
WonderK
Dec 12, 06 8:36 am
lol bryden.
Interesting topic, and I can see by your screen name that you aren't comfortable talking about it as your "real" self, which speaks to your conflict on the whole issue.
I have a lot of opinions on this. Probably because I have a lot of friends that smoke pot. I guess I view each of them differently. For instance, some of my friends I can't imagine NOT smoking pot, and they seem to do it with about the same regularity as yourself. However, some of them present themselves a certain way - as a non-smoker - and then I find out that either they used to or they still do occasionally, and I find myself frustrated by this. It's like, you are who you are, either you embrace that or you get to deal with it when I call you a tool.
Now, by the same token I find it gross. Then again I find cigarette smoking even grosser - smoking in general is vile, IMHO - because at least pot has *some* medicinal qualities, right? I very much feel that it is something you need to do around willing participants, because for people like myself who get sickened by it, we are prone to get more frustrated with those who do it around us, or pester us about it.
Now, as far as it being something you might "grow out of", this is a very real concern. When I was younger I remember going to a house party of some older friends that I worked with, who had young children. They were smoking it up in their basement at one point, and their kids were in the house, and I felt that was wrong. But, they were drinking too, and I feel it's probably not in your best interest as a parent to get wasted in front of your little kids either.
So I guess I think it's OK, and I don't think that I would discriminate against an employee who did it, as long as it didn't affect their work or their life. But the same goes for drinking, too. And I think if people are responsible about it as they age, and as society becomes more accepting of it, it might get easier for casual users to continue as they do without feeling like they are giving themselves a stigma.
That's my $.02.
PS. I do discriminate against boyfriends who do it though. I just can't kiss that, it's gross. Personal preference.
liberty bell
Dec 12, 06 8:44 am
As part of the "growing up" aspect you might research whether an illegal drug offense would impact your ability to have an architectural license.
Personally I think marijuana should be legalized, but at this point my license is far too important for me to take any kind of risk with it.
holz.box
Dec 12, 06 11:01 am
j-
so when you say abuse... do you mean , "dude, telefon tel aviv's playing a live set on thursday. gonna have to smoke some bud beforehand"
or is it more along the lines of, "fuck, i don't want to deal with dave the dick contractor today. where's my 6 footer?"
Abel-Oner-Office
Dec 12, 06 11:21 am
you should work with us
crush these bombs and pump cad
FRO
Dec 12, 06 11:44 am
the only 2 things you can consistently say about an architect that smokes marijuana are:
1- the person is an architect
2- the person smokes marijuana
All issues of living in a country with a long history of prosecuting victimless and consensual crimes aside, I dont think 1/4oz per 4 months constitutes abuse. Your awareness and analysis of your smoking habits seems like it is already keeping you from crossing the line into oblivion, and this 'growing up' you speak of is over-rated.
oe
Dec 12, 06 12:10 pm
I havent smoked in a long ass time. I guess I did start feeling too old, but with the right people its all good I guess. Obviously dailies get a little dulled out and non-smokers have this strange akward attitude towards it. I dont think it matters. Its fun sometimes.
mdler
Dec 12, 06 12:25 pm
WonderK
Cant wait to get really stoned with you and go eat some Skyline next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mdler
Dec 12, 06 12:27 pm
My current employer tells of stories from the 80's....when he would have to charette on projects at his old office, his boss would lay out lines of coke for all the young employees. They would work for days
as a side note, I used to make smoking paraphenalia for my friends in the wood shop at school..for tobacco use only
joshuacarrell
Dec 12, 06 12:51 pm
Not to expose myself as a radical fringe element, but being part of the early straight edge scene, I still see drug use in any form as bad for ME. Do what you want, just not on the clock.
j
mdler
Dec 12, 06 12:54 pm
All the straight edgers I know ended up in rehab
mdler
Dec 12, 06 12:56 pm
joshuacarrell
Dec 12, 06 12:57 pm
I ended up on probation.
j
miss casual
Dec 12, 06 1:07 pm
i am gonna agree with the camp that doesnt think you can make a blanket statement about whether its grown and sexy or immature and repulsive.
i think its fine and on par with drinking but i also know quite a few people who smoke a lot (and by a lot i mean daily at least) who think like stoners. they have broken logic, make stupid decisions, and generally have a layer of fog in their brain. god knows i was like that in college...
but then again i know at least one person that smokes that much and is smart as a whip and a total workaholic so ??? i wouldnt begrudge him a martini?
myriam
Dec 12, 06 1:15 pm
If I were an employer, there's no way I'd want a pot-smoking employee. I wouldn't want a straight-edge employee either, for that matter.
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 1:18 pm
would you want an employee that drink wine with dinner every night?
myriam
Dec 12, 06 1:21 pm
absolutely, without doubt. I think there should be a law that forces all people to drink wine with dinner. I'd be pleased my employee cared about his health, not to mention his gastronomic satisfaction. Plus, you have to have a lot of joie de vivre to survive this profession.
myriam
Dec 12, 06 1:21 pm
In fact I think you've hit upon a key interview question.
mdler
Dec 12, 06 1:25 pm
I get drunk at client meetings with my boss
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 1:31 pm
I heard Zaha smokes from a 4 foot bong.
WonderK
Dec 12, 06 1:34 pm
mdler are you going to sneak pot into my chili?!?
I stayed in San Francisco once with some friends of a friend who were more than casual drug users. One guy fell and cut his hand on the way home from work and rather than bandage it up when he got home, the first words out of his mouth were, "I need to smoke to take away the pain" or something. I found that to be hilarious. I refer to that trip as "my stay in the crack den".
And to qualify my earlier statement: my game is so off lately I probably shouldn't just ignore every toker that ventures in my direction. My friends are all good people. Still hate cigarette smoke though. Yech!
silverlake
Dec 12, 06 1:34 pm
I don't think its acceptable to work or to be on someone elses watch while your high....
Anyone have any rolling papers?
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 1:37 pm
Still hate cigarette smoke though
me too! all stressed yesterday a friend was smoking, I asked for a puff...damn, that was not what I needed. Immediate repulsion, and a reminder of why I choose not to smoke....I don't like it. It is always fun to remind yourself of why you do, or do not, engage in a particular act.
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 1:38 pm
only if your holding silver.
AP
Dec 12, 06 1:40 pm
my first out of school job interview was at a bar. I got hired. my boss was a raging alcoholic. A few months later I witnessed him being arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct.
stoners are better than drunks. by a landslide.
myriam
Dec 12, 06 1:42 pm
I agree that stoners are better than drunks. But I wouldn't hire either.
I have a client pot story but I'm not going to share it.
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 1:45 pm
I know some people who would call drinking everyday an addiction...like say, wine. not me personally...but I know people who would. I just think it is silly to judge anyone on anything other than how they perform on the clock. Any one with a debilitating addiction of any kind will fail to perform constructively over time.
mdler
Dec 12, 06 2:30 pm
one of my clients has a sail boat w/ a stripper pole on it..has invited me sailing
mdler
Dec 12, 06 2:31 pm
another client smokes WAY TOO MUCH pot... calls office and leaves half-baked messages for ideas about his project on the voice mail
xtbl
Dec 12, 06 2:56 pm
cool topic! i too prefer lighting one up to drinking. however, i agree that there is a time and place for everything, and i wouldn't dare show up to work stoned. yeah, i think stoners are better than drunks. i read somewhere that the coop himme(l)blau guys would get stoned while designing. i don't remember where i read that, since i was stoned @ the time =P
ochona
Dec 12, 06 2:58 pm
should it be against the law? i don't think so. but it is against the law. if you break the law, you had better have a really morally and ethically right reason for doing so. making your "hard day" at the office go away is not civil disobedience.
as for the original question: pot use after college graduation (of practically any frequency) is practically proof positive of immaturity. the notions of invulnerability, of the perceived freedom to break laws selectively, and of the relentless search for "a good time" that come with pot use are all markers of someone who's still deep in the throes of adultescence.
just so i don't seem discriminatory, i put people who get drunk regularly and people who still smoke cigarettes after architecture school in the same category. maturity, in part, is discipline: the mastery of one's own chemical urges.
and it smells like shit. don't even tell me cigarette smoke is worse.
xtbl
Dec 12, 06 3:01 pm
"pot use after college graduation (of practically any frequency) is practically proof positive of immaturity"
your mom!!! ha ha, just kidding. but seriously, how is moderate, responsible use of pot immature?
ochona
Dec 12, 06 3:24 pm
i personally don't smoke pot, but i do have a beer every now and then. and i eat a lot. we all are after some form of substance-related gratification in one way or another.
i think the tipping point is that pot posession/sale/transport -- unlike my beer or chicken-fried steak -- is illegal. whether or not it should be, is way up for debate. frankly, i believe like LB that it should be 100% legal.
but it's illegal. you have to commit a crime to get it, and you have to commit a crime to take it with you when you do. if you sell it, you're committing another crime.
there are consequences. people do get busted for pot. it's a criminal offense.
the notion that one is exempt from or can reliably and safely escape laws is a mark of a sense of invulnerability. invulnerability is an illusion born of a naivete of how the world actually works. actions have consequences, and every action has a reaction.
naivete of the true way of the world is, to me, a mark of immaturity.
rarely anyone of our demographic gets busted for pot. but it's not the point. the point is, you can.
as well, when you use pot, you're at the end of a chain you might not want to be a part of. it's not as though all bud is grown by the cool guy down the street who uses a lot of electricity and just wants to spread love in this cold, hard world. people are engaged in much worse offenses than drug possession to get you what you need.
the inability to think through chains like this -- is also immature. i dunno, i'm not trying to be harsh. it's just that life is precious but hard, and you can screw it up with one little move. that's how i was raised and it's how i live.
Chili Davis
Dec 12, 06 3:27 pm
mdler, no sneaking pot into Chili!
miss casual
Dec 12, 06 3:30 pm
immature is getting caught
stephanie
Dec 12, 06 3:32 pm
though i appreciate your chain theory, i do wonder if that thought process is implemented into every thing you consume?
and i mean, i try to be a responsible consumer, but really, i think i would be hard pressed to not purchase or ingest something that has come from a dirty chain, at least once a week.
so if maybe i buy some weed once a year that may not have come from some co-op employee's farm, does that really make me immature?
damn.
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 3:37 pm
"naivete of the true way of the world is, to me, a mark of immaturity."
believing you follow every law every day is naive...heck, even knowing what every law is, is near impossible.
Have you ever jaywalked? or are you just the perfect citizen? every hour of everyday...good on you flanders.
Eating heavily? That is a large cause of our public health costs, should we tax it, ban it, outlaw it? They are in New York now, no trans fats...don't go sneaking a Twinkie in a restaurant.
3dGraffiti
Dec 12, 06 3:42 pm
Has anyone else in LA notice the how the pot scene has changed? I have been out of Los Angeles for the last year and just returned from a trip there, and what a difference! My smoker friends' bags of weed have been replaced by several prescription bottles of various strains with funny names...
They explained that the average dealer has been replace with friends with perscriptions issued by doctors for just about any reason... It was pretty wierd.
chupacabra
Dec 12, 06 3:47 pm
see, legal addiction is just as bad. Be responsible, be accountable. Be an adult.
One of my grandmothers died falling down stairs all messed up on downers...legal prescription, that being depressed she should not have had.
silverlake
Dec 12, 06 3:59 pm
I like drinkers over smokers.
I have a couple of pothead friends and they just sit in their apartment all day with the blinds pulled stairing glassy-eyed at the tv. What a waste.
As far as not smoking because its against the law - c'mon! Are you serious? Do you know how many laws that stand across the country that are arbitrary and outdated? Some (like no oral sex in some states) are just laughable.
Apurimac
Dec 12, 06 3:59 pm
If a law is wrong, its a sign of immaturity to follow it blindly. "Yes mommy, I'll do what you tell me."
dia
Dec 12, 06 4:15 pm
I dont care if its legal, illegal or whatever. I dont care if you smoke pot or drink. I would care if you were doing hard drugs.
However, I believe in the sovereignty of the individual, and that chemical dependence should be eliminated because it does not promote that soveriegnty. I think its sad that people sometimes have to rely on drugs to cope, to engender creativity, to fit in etc.
I think that the power of the will, the creative imagination, the individuals right to choose, compassion, introspection and love are under-utilized and often ignored.
xtbl
Dec 12, 06 4:28 pm
"pot is for socialist liberal lazy emo music loving pussies!"
meta, dude, i resent that! i hate emo!!!
ochona
Dec 12, 06 4:55 pm
"I believe in the sovereignty of the individual, and that chemical dependence should be eliminated because it does not promote that soveriegnty. I think its sad that people sometimes have to rely on drugs to cope, to engender creativity, to fit in etc.
I think that the power of the will, the creative imagination, the individuals right to choose, compassion, introspection and love are under-utilized and often ignored."
this is 100% correct, diabase, and well said on your part.
and:
i do not jaywalk. as molly ivins once said, they shoot jaywalkers in dallas, don't they? i don't force drivers to take extra effort to look out for me when they have a green light.
i consider to the best of my ability the provenance of any and every product i buy. i make value judgments about that provenance based on my particular values. i am sure that i am not blameless by any means when it comes to what i buy -- the point is, i consider the chain.
i don't think governmental regulation is the solution to problems of personal consumption. personal regulation -- discipline -- is.
xtbl
Dec 12, 06 4:57 pm
ha ha ha, sorry dude. my cranium is still intact, and, although i listen to just about everything, i need to expand my metallica library. i think i only have load and s&m on my itunes. but anyway, cheers!
liberty bell
Dec 12, 06 9:44 pm
If a law is wrong, its a sign of immaturity to follow it blindly
But even if a law is wrong, it is a far stronger sign of immaturity to think one can break that law and evade consequences.
surface
Dec 12, 06 10:11 pm
Oh, my. There are other edge kids on here. If anyone owns the most recent TRIAL album, you'll get a kick out of the liner notes. *cough*
My issue with illegal drugs has mostly to do with human rights abuses that occur during production/transportation (not so much an issue if one has obtained the means to grow one's own). While others above are right, there are many "dirty" chains from production >>> consumer, there are specific issues with illegal substances that don't happen in other product life cycles.
I'm around drunk/coke personality all too much, and every time I go in to work I see people's inner tyrants come out through the help of two or three drinks/lines and it's astonishing how abusive and horrible they become. It definitely put me off touching anything harder than green tea. Yet I've hosted plenty of dinner parties at home where everyone was pleasantly drunk on wine and cocktails and it was fine. Depends on the people, I suppose.
In an ideal world, pot would be legal. Seems relatively harmless, and if alcohol (which tends to mess people up more, as well as turn them surly/aggressive more than pot, which just makes people woozy) is legal then why not weed. I agree that many things can be used responsibly or abused, and don't have a problem with people who are careful and responsible about it.
holz.box
Dec 12, 06 10:23 pm
Susan,
re: human right's abuses, what is your view on the diamond trade?
it was possbile to obtain pot in Basel when I was last there, but i recently heard the gov't is starting to stop that (pressure from the u.s. anyone?)
meanwhile, oregon and washington have toned down some laws, but not the trafficking/poss. ones which I am all for.
I have been smoking grass on and off since I graduated from university. Sometimes I smoke once a week, and sometimes it is a couple of times a day. The last 1/4 oz (7.5 grams) I bought lasted me about 6 months which is probably stretching it out a little more than I would have liked. I’d say a healthy average for me is 1/4 oz over 4 months. I never smoke before I go work, or at lunch; it is more of an after work or weekend thing. I prefer smoking to drinking (maybe having a beer or glass of wine or two a week) and don’t use any other drugs.
I knew this guy who worked for Frank Gehry back in the 80’s who told me stories of Frank coming out of rooms with clouds of smoke behind him. I know not everything one person does is good for another. So I am not at all trying to say by smoking grass I will be a famous architect. However, do you think smoking grass will make me a bad architect? Would you be concerned as an employer if you knew your employee was smoking grass? Would you have the same concern if they were drinking wine or beer everyday? Do you feel there is a difference between smoking grass and drinking? For example I see there is a difference between smoking crack and drinking, or heroin and drinking. I see most other drugs in a much different light than i see marijuana. I see grass and drinking in pretty much the same light but because of the public image of marijuana I am not secure in my belief. I would not be comfortable talking about smoking grass with my boss but I would have no problem telling them about a beer I drank the day before.
Part of the reason I am posting this is because I have seen some friends of mine smoke too much. They have slow down, and a couple that are addicted (at least I think so). I am worried the same might happen to me. Meanwhile I see a lot of other friends growing out of these phases. I know there are other areas of my life where I must grow-up. Should this be one of them?
To each his own man. Some people get work/creative highs by smoking certain types of weed, and their work definately doesn't suffer for it. Some people get completely stoned out and cant function, although you'd probably need to smoke alot to get to that phase. Don't let the BS about drugs propagated by society make you think its an "immature" practice.
How many foyers were in your last project?
lol bryden.
Interesting topic, and I can see by your screen name that you aren't comfortable talking about it as your "real" self, which speaks to your conflict on the whole issue.
I have a lot of opinions on this. Probably because I have a lot of friends that smoke pot. I guess I view each of them differently. For instance, some of my friends I can't imagine NOT smoking pot, and they seem to do it with about the same regularity as yourself. However, some of them present themselves a certain way - as a non-smoker - and then I find out that either they used to or they still do occasionally, and I find myself frustrated by this. It's like, you are who you are, either you embrace that or you get to deal with it when I call you a tool.
Now, by the same token I find it gross. Then again I find cigarette smoking even grosser - smoking in general is vile, IMHO - because at least pot has *some* medicinal qualities, right? I very much feel that it is something you need to do around willing participants, because for people like myself who get sickened by it, we are prone to get more frustrated with those who do it around us, or pester us about it.
Now, as far as it being something you might "grow out of", this is a very real concern. When I was younger I remember going to a house party of some older friends that I worked with, who had young children. They were smoking it up in their basement at one point, and their kids were in the house, and I felt that was wrong. But, they were drinking too, and I feel it's probably not in your best interest as a parent to get wasted in front of your little kids either.
So I guess I think it's OK, and I don't think that I would discriminate against an employee who did it, as long as it didn't affect their work or their life. But the same goes for drinking, too. And I think if people are responsible about it as they age, and as society becomes more accepting of it, it might get easier for casual users to continue as they do without feeling like they are giving themselves a stigma.
That's my $.02.
PS. I do discriminate against boyfriends who do it though. I just can't kiss that, it's gross. Personal preference.
As part of the "growing up" aspect you might research whether an illegal drug offense would impact your ability to have an architectural license.
Personally I think marijuana should be legalized, but at this point my license is far too important for me to take any kind of risk with it.
j-
so when you say abuse... do you mean , "dude, telefon tel aviv's playing a live set on thursday. gonna have to smoke some bud beforehand"
or is it more along the lines of, "fuck, i don't want to deal with dave the dick contractor today. where's my 6 footer?"
you should work with us
crush these bombs and pump cad
the only 2 things you can consistently say about an architect that smokes marijuana are:
1- the person is an architect
2- the person smokes marijuana
All issues of living in a country with a long history of prosecuting victimless and consensual crimes aside, I dont think 1/4oz per 4 months constitutes abuse. Your awareness and analysis of your smoking habits seems like it is already keeping you from crossing the line into oblivion, and this 'growing up' you speak of is over-rated.
I havent smoked in a long ass time. I guess I did start feeling too old, but with the right people its all good I guess. Obviously dailies get a little dulled out and non-smokers have this strange akward attitude towards it. I dont think it matters. Its fun sometimes.
WonderK
Cant wait to get really stoned with you and go eat some Skyline next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My current employer tells of stories from the 80's....when he would have to charette on projects at his old office, his boss would lay out lines of coke for all the young employees. They would work for days
as a side note, I used to make smoking paraphenalia for my friends in the wood shop at school..for tobacco use only
Not to expose myself as a radical fringe element, but being part of the early straight edge scene, I still see drug use in any form as bad for ME. Do what you want, just not on the clock.
j
All the straight edgers I know ended up in rehab
I ended up on probation.
j
i am gonna agree with the camp that doesnt think you can make a blanket statement about whether its grown and sexy or immature and repulsive.
i think its fine and on par with drinking but i also know quite a few people who smoke a lot (and by a lot i mean daily at least) who think like stoners. they have broken logic, make stupid decisions, and generally have a layer of fog in their brain. god knows i was like that in college...
but then again i know at least one person that smokes that much and is smart as a whip and a total workaholic so ??? i wouldnt begrudge him a martini?
If I were an employer, there's no way I'd want a pot-smoking employee. I wouldn't want a straight-edge employee either, for that matter.
would you want an employee that drink wine with dinner every night?
absolutely, without doubt. I think there should be a law that forces all people to drink wine with dinner. I'd be pleased my employee cared about his health, not to mention his gastronomic satisfaction. Plus, you have to have a lot of joie de vivre to survive this profession.
In fact I think you've hit upon a key interview question.
I get drunk at client meetings with my boss
I heard Zaha smokes from a 4 foot bong.
mdler are you going to sneak pot into my chili?!?
I stayed in San Francisco once with some friends of a friend who were more than casual drug users. One guy fell and cut his hand on the way home from work and rather than bandage it up when he got home, the first words out of his mouth were, "I need to smoke to take away the pain" or something. I found that to be hilarious. I refer to that trip as "my stay in the crack den".
And to qualify my earlier statement: my game is so off lately I probably shouldn't just ignore every toker that ventures in my direction. My friends are all good people. Still hate cigarette smoke though. Yech!
I don't think its acceptable to work or to be on someone elses watch while your high....
Anyone have any rolling papers?
Still hate cigarette smoke though
me too! all stressed yesterday a friend was smoking, I asked for a puff...damn, that was not what I needed. Immediate repulsion, and a reminder of why I choose not to smoke....I don't like it. It is always fun to remind yourself of why you do, or do not, engage in a particular act.
only if your holding silver.
my first out of school job interview was at a bar. I got hired. my boss was a raging alcoholic. A few months later I witnessed him being arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct.
stoners are better than drunks. by a landslide.
I agree that stoners are better than drunks. But I wouldn't hire either.
I have a client pot story but I'm not going to share it.
I know some people who would call drinking everyday an addiction...like say, wine. not me personally...but I know people who would. I just think it is silly to judge anyone on anything other than how they perform on the clock. Any one with a debilitating addiction of any kind will fail to perform constructively over time.
one of my clients has a sail boat w/ a stripper pole on it..has invited me sailing
another client smokes WAY TOO MUCH pot... calls office and leaves half-baked messages for ideas about his project on the voice mail
cool topic! i too prefer lighting one up to drinking. however, i agree that there is a time and place for everything, and i wouldn't dare show up to work stoned. yeah, i think stoners are better than drunks. i read somewhere that the coop himme(l)blau guys would get stoned while designing. i don't remember where i read that, since i was stoned @ the time =P
should it be against the law? i don't think so. but it is against the law. if you break the law, you had better have a really morally and ethically right reason for doing so. making your "hard day" at the office go away is not civil disobedience.
as for the original question: pot use after college graduation (of practically any frequency) is practically proof positive of immaturity. the notions of invulnerability, of the perceived freedom to break laws selectively, and of the relentless search for "a good time" that come with pot use are all markers of someone who's still deep in the throes of adultescence.
just so i don't seem discriminatory, i put people who get drunk regularly and people who still smoke cigarettes after architecture school in the same category. maturity, in part, is discipline: the mastery of one's own chemical urges.
and it smells like shit. don't even tell me cigarette smoke is worse.
"pot use after college graduation (of practically any frequency) is practically proof positive of immaturity"
your mom!!! ha ha, just kidding. but seriously, how is moderate, responsible use of pot immature?
i personally don't smoke pot, but i do have a beer every now and then. and i eat a lot. we all are after some form of substance-related gratification in one way or another.
i think the tipping point is that pot posession/sale/transport -- unlike my beer or chicken-fried steak -- is illegal. whether or not it should be, is way up for debate. frankly, i believe like LB that it should be 100% legal.
but it's illegal. you have to commit a crime to get it, and you have to commit a crime to take it with you when you do. if you sell it, you're committing another crime.
there are consequences. people do get busted for pot. it's a criminal offense.
the notion that one is exempt from or can reliably and safely escape laws is a mark of a sense of invulnerability. invulnerability is an illusion born of a naivete of how the world actually works. actions have consequences, and every action has a reaction.
naivete of the true way of the world is, to me, a mark of immaturity.
rarely anyone of our demographic gets busted for pot. but it's not the point. the point is, you can.
as well, when you use pot, you're at the end of a chain you might not want to be a part of. it's not as though all bud is grown by the cool guy down the street who uses a lot of electricity and just wants to spread love in this cold, hard world. people are engaged in much worse offenses than drug possession to get you what you need.
the inability to think through chains like this -- is also immature. i dunno, i'm not trying to be harsh. it's just that life is precious but hard, and you can screw it up with one little move. that's how i was raised and it's how i live.
mdler, no sneaking pot into Chili!
immature is getting caught
though i appreciate your chain theory, i do wonder if that thought process is implemented into every thing you consume?
and i mean, i try to be a responsible consumer, but really, i think i would be hard pressed to not purchase or ingest something that has come from a dirty chain, at least once a week.
so if maybe i buy some weed once a year that may not have come from some co-op employee's farm, does that really make me immature?
damn.
"naivete of the true way of the world is, to me, a mark of immaturity."
believing you follow every law every day is naive...heck, even knowing what every law is, is near impossible.
Have you ever jaywalked? or are you just the perfect citizen? every hour of everyday...good on you flanders.
Eating heavily? That is a large cause of our public health costs, should we tax it, ban it, outlaw it? They are in New York now, no trans fats...don't go sneaking a Twinkie in a restaurant.
Has anyone else in LA notice the how the pot scene has changed? I have been out of Los Angeles for the last year and just returned from a trip there, and what a difference! My smoker friends' bags of weed have been replaced by several prescription bottles of various strains with funny names...
They explained that the average dealer has been replace with friends with perscriptions issued by doctors for just about any reason... It was pretty wierd.
see, legal addiction is just as bad. Be responsible, be accountable. Be an adult.
One of my grandmothers died falling down stairs all messed up on downers...legal prescription, that being depressed she should not have had.
I like drinkers over smokers.
I have a couple of pothead friends and they just sit in their apartment all day with the blinds pulled stairing glassy-eyed at the tv. What a waste.
As far as not smoking because its against the law - c'mon! Are you serious? Do you know how many laws that stand across the country that are arbitrary and outdated? Some (like no oral sex in some states) are just laughable.
If a law is wrong, its a sign of immaturity to follow it blindly. "Yes mommy, I'll do what you tell me."
I dont care if its legal, illegal or whatever. I dont care if you smoke pot or drink. I would care if you were doing hard drugs.
However, I believe in the sovereignty of the individual, and that chemical dependence should be eliminated because it does not promote that soveriegnty. I think its sad that people sometimes have to rely on drugs to cope, to engender creativity, to fit in etc.
I think that the power of the will, the creative imagination, the individuals right to choose, compassion, introspection and love are under-utilized and often ignored.
"pot is for socialist liberal lazy emo music loving pussies!"
meta, dude, i resent that! i hate emo!!!
"I believe in the sovereignty of the individual, and that chemical dependence should be eliminated because it does not promote that soveriegnty. I think its sad that people sometimes have to rely on drugs to cope, to engender creativity, to fit in etc.
I think that the power of the will, the creative imagination, the individuals right to choose, compassion, introspection and love are under-utilized and often ignored."
this is 100% correct, diabase, and well said on your part.
and:
i do not jaywalk. as molly ivins once said, they shoot jaywalkers in dallas, don't they? i don't force drivers to take extra effort to look out for me when they have a green light.
i consider to the best of my ability the provenance of any and every product i buy. i make value judgments about that provenance based on my particular values. i am sure that i am not blameless by any means when it comes to what i buy -- the point is, i consider the chain.
i don't think governmental regulation is the solution to problems of personal consumption. personal regulation -- discipline -- is.
ha ha ha, sorry dude. my cranium is still intact, and, although i listen to just about everything, i need to expand my metallica library. i think i only have load and s&m on my itunes. but anyway, cheers!
But even if a law is wrong, it is a far stronger sign of immaturity to think one can break that law and evade consequences.
Oh, my. There are other edge kids on here. If anyone owns the most recent TRIAL album, you'll get a kick out of the liner notes. *cough*
My issue with illegal drugs has mostly to do with human rights abuses that occur during production/transportation (not so much an issue if one has obtained the means to grow one's own). While others above are right, there are many "dirty" chains from production >>> consumer, there are specific issues with illegal substances that don't happen in other product life cycles.
I'm around drunk/coke personality all too much, and every time I go in to work I see people's inner tyrants come out through the help of two or three drinks/lines and it's astonishing how abusive and horrible they become. It definitely put me off touching anything harder than green tea. Yet I've hosted plenty of dinner parties at home where everyone was pleasantly drunk on wine and cocktails and it was fine. Depends on the people, I suppose.
In an ideal world, pot would be legal. Seems relatively harmless, and if alcohol (which tends to mess people up more, as well as turn them surly/aggressive more than pot, which just makes people woozy) is legal then why not weed. I agree that many things can be used responsibly or abused, and don't have a problem with people who are careful and responsible about it.
Susan,
re: human right's abuses, what is your view on the diamond trade?
it was possbile to obtain pot in Basel when I was last there, but i recently heard the gov't is starting to stop that (pressure from the u.s. anyone?)
meanwhile, oregon and washington have toned down some laws, but not the trafficking/poss. ones which I am all for.