Recently, I was surprised to see quite a few acquaintances in the architectural business moonlighting as realtors/brokers/agents. While there are clearly legal and professional distinctions to these titles, I'm using them liberally under one umbrella.
This led me to wonder why I was surprised in the first place. Did I simply assume work in the realty business is below that of an architect? That seemed presumptuous to say the least.
There were several legit reasons for doing realty work alongside the daily studio grind: Earning a second income, opportunities to network with potential clients, better understanding the local real estate market, or simply a keen interest in the realty business without actually working in it. Some young entrepreneurial designers found realtor credentials helpful in convincing clients to work with them on the design side.
What do you guys think - Are there professional ethics concerns? Business benefits?
Le Courvoisier
May 3, 24 10:36 am
They get a better percentage than we do sometimes...
Chad Miller
May 3, 24 10:39 am
Nearly every time.
reallynotmyname
May 16, 24 6:52 pm
The realtor's overhead expense is generally a lot lower as well.
flatroof
May 3, 24 12:03 pm
Because they want to afford to buy a house some day (/s maybe?)
The booms were more lucrative in Real Estate, but not so much going forward since the NAR antitrust case/settlement. It was easy these past few years but now its oversaturated and a housing downturn/recession is going decimate it like it will architecture/construction.
graphemic
May 3, 24 1:07 pm
From my very inexperienced perspective (re: property ownership), realtors are an arbitrary role required by our financial/legal structure that manages land. Which is to say, it's just a routine task someone does and they happen to get a lot of money for doing it. Like a gas station clerk.
Being in the building industry, you have to make decisions and priorities about making something that starts out undefined, usually with the input and collaboration of hundreds of other parties. This is why I like our work.
They're just different IMO. It seems like a lucrative side hustle to me.
J G
May 8, 24 7:28 pm
while I appreciate the deprication on realtors, I think this take isn't entirely accurate. For one thing, a realtor is "making" the deal/transaction of the land from one party to another and doing the legwork of making that deal go through. While realtors aren't actually allowed to draw up contracts from scratch the way architects are, and are relegated to filling in pre-made forms, the service of helping on contract terms and price negotiation/valuation is probably valuable to buyers and sellers overall. I do wish realtors didn't make such high commissions however...
Jay1122
May 3, 24 2:10 pm
I think realtors are more like salesman. They rely heavily on networking and sales pitch skills. I think most architects, due to the professionalism associated with the license and work, will be more honest and technical.
Imagine an architect goes to show the client a house. Then immediately goes, the layout is not efficient, the material used is low grade, etc. Architects can spot many things wrong with our trained eyes and experience. The realtors probably would just spit ball whatever in order to sell the property.
whistler
May 3, 24 5:35 pm
I went to a couple of seminars / presentation by an Architect / Realtor / Developer from Calgary a number of years back. He had created a great little niche for himself and their small team of designers / builders. All very hands on and basically had worked up a concept to cut out the meddlesome middle men to deliver both new and renovated projects to the urban / suburban market looking for newish modern design. All seemed to work very well and by cutting out the middlemen managed to delivery better quality projects to the market at a better price. www.housebrand.ca
Wood Guy
May 3, 24 7:02 pm
A friend of mine, my marketing assistant at my former firm, is a designer/realtor/developer/builder and extremely successful at it. I wish I could have figured out how to fully realize her talents!
whistler
May 3, 24 8:20 pm
I appreciated for the hands on approach and designer/builder savvy that Housebrand brought to the market. The approach also aligns with my own sensibilities so I appreciated the strategy. They appear to be successful in a very suburban market place ... clearly
an area where there is likely a real need. I don't know the Calgary scene but I could see why they were successful. I also guess you could reference Jonathon Segal for larger scale work ( often noted architect / developer in Southern California ) who gets noted in multiple threads on this site.
monosierra
May 3, 24 6:19 pm
You guys bring up excellent points - leading me to realize that almost all the architect-realtors I've encountered happened to be entrepreneurs too. That is, they're not running off to open houses while doing CDs for the boss. Instead, they're offering design services to home buyers - and some are looking into real estate development. Now the decision to foray into realty makes more sense.
proto
May 4, 24 3:27 pm
I suspect the target strategy of getting a real estate license is access to what properties come to the listing service first and jumping them prior to going to the market at large.
Otherwise, the real estate sales game takes a lot of weekly time to do well, and it's usually weekend & night time when shoppers want to interact with the home sales. I can't imagine that kind of effort on top of a regular design practice.
Richard Balkins
May 4, 24 4:01 pm
Work is work. If you get paid, great. Also, what is the difficulty of the work involved. Is the work "easy" but still busy work or is it very complex and difficult work that is also busy work? Is the easier work paying better and involve less liability risk? Then why not. Do less architectural projects (maybe half as many projects) and still get paid as much. So you spend weekends. If you work on houses and similar work, you work weekends. You take your days off or you reduce some of the hours on the less busy days. Why do we work weekends in SFRs and such, because clients may have a job during the week and they can't meet during the weekdays because weekends are your days off and the 30 minutes to 1 hour lunch break isn't long enough for that.
Usually, one of the days and frequently Saturday more than Sunday.
proto
May 6, 24 11:28 am
We have business hours. We don't do meetings on evenings, early mornings or weekends -- tho we do get some folks who think we should do house calls on demand because they are SO busy with all the things...yeah, no...this isn't uber
Richard Balkins
May 6, 24 11:51 am
We do it because that is standard practice. Of course, those are by appointment, though. We accommodate with working clients who can not stop work to meet for 2 or 3 hours on something when they have a job where they are suppose to be working. Don't get your clients fired from their job. When they are working during the weekdays like you, they are on the clock. I have flexibility to work weekend and schedule my hours. They have bosses that controls their work schedule. That is why we work weekend. It might mean I tweak some hours on the weekdays as needed. These weekend (often Saturday only but on the occassion Sunday) is partial days. Sometimes, it may also be used to grind to get things done on schedule.
Richard Balkins
May 6, 24 12:13 pm
If I had employees, I may not have all the employees work weekends. It would be me, business partners, and anyone else in responsible charge or otherwise need to be there. Sometimes, it is to visit the site with the client. Sometimes, it is a meeting over Zoom but we have to be on a session longer than a lunch break. If the client is an employee (not my own but work for someone else or some company), they have their job they have to do and are not necessarily in control of their hours. Secondly, you aren't suppose to use sick days for not showing up to work. You need to be sick to actually use it legally and correctly otherwise it actually fraud and a form of unlawful lying. Vacation days, sure but people aren't going to use those up, either unless they somehow can't meet on the weekend. However, employees are expected to work every minute minus the lunch break and any the two small break periods or whatever according to labor law. Every single minute not part of that allotted breaks, they are expected to work. How is a client meeting with me or you about designing their home have anything to do with the client's job and his/her/their employer? It is personal stuff. I do work with real people not just these fake plastic business suits individuals.
Richard Balkins
May 6, 24 12:34 pm
It's basically 'customer service' or "client service" if you like to refer to it in the latter.
proto
May 8, 24 7:35 pm
Believe it or not: customer service still exists within business hours. If someone needs to take a couple hours to meet with their architect/lawyer/dentist/medium, it's not going to burn all their PTO.
Richard Balkins
May 8, 24 8:44 pm
Lets make this clear, I am not talking Paid Leave. That's distinct from other paid time off for vacation and holidays and maybe a handful of days for short term sick days not considered part of the Paid Leave. There is also unpaid time off. PTO and UTO are not required in Oregon. Paid Leave is required for employers with a certain number of employees or higher or otherwise part of the package. Employers may not have any benefits in their policies beyond the "Paid Leave" or not even that. In which case, missing a day of work equals laid off or being "fired" or simply "termination of employment". I don't necessarily know the exact reasons why a client is unable to meet on weekdays. If weekends is their available time to meet then that's something I would do. My competitors do meet their clients on weekends or Saturdays. They do it. Why should I provide an inferior customer service, by being less available? Meeting on weekdays can be pretty hectic and busy and naturally I would be a tad more distracted with the things on my mind that I need to get done that day to stay on schedule. Those things are going to be on the mind more than it might be on a Saturday where it would typically be a lighter day for me. It wouldn't necessarily be a full day. If anything, it would likely be a more relaxed day especially if I am on schedule with the work during the weekdays and ready for next week.
Richard Balkins
May 8, 24 8:49 pm
Meeting prospective clients is about procuring work and does nothing in itself to benefit the production of work for existing clients. So weekdays are often days I deal with active projects. Procuring projects serves to bring projects into the pipeline queue of projects so there is money flow so we are busy not sitting on our asses all day long during the week with nothing to do. Yet, they may and often have nothing to do with the existing project. The idea of procuring the next projects before the existing projects are done is the point of keeping busy.
msparchitect
May 6, 24 3:59 pm
architecture is just an education. I have several friends from architecture school who interned at an architecture firm for a little while and ultimately became realtors. They seem happy with their lives. They're able to have unique conversations with clients compared to other realtors.
The Architecture profession in general is not spectacular. So for many it just becomes a job/career. People change careers for different opportunities or lifestyles that suit them. I'd rather most realtors have an architecture background than others.
JLC-1
May 6, 24 4:09 pm
I know several architects as developers of their own projects.
Chad Miller
May 6, 24 4:23 pm
I do too. They're on the verge of going bankrupt and say they'll never be able to retire.
JLC-1
May 6, 24 4:25 pm
Oh well, s***t happens.
Chad Miller
May 6, 24 5:08 pm
It does. Being an architect is already has enough 'salesmanship' in it. I wouldn't want to add to that amount by being a developer. You'd always be 'on' whenever you left the house.
xsfxcx
May 15, 24 7:45 pm
Only architect would think youre above everything.
Yet in reality , when you don't earn money , you're nothing.
NOTHING !
So go earn some money, instead of thinking realtors are below architect.
reallynotmyname
May 16, 24 6:51 pm
A realtor with knowledge of architecture can be a good thing for the buyers they work with. I've had several clients who bought properties and very quickly found themselves in a jam because the realtor gave them bad or incomplete information on zoning, building codes, etc. Sometimes it was ignorance on the part of the realtor, a few times it looked more like deliberate lies and omissions.
Recently, I was surprised to see quite a few acquaintances in the architectural business moonlighting as realtors/brokers/agents. While there are clearly legal and professional distinctions to these titles, I'm using them liberally under one umbrella.
This led me to wonder why I was surprised in the first place. Did I simply assume work in the realty business is below that of an architect? That seemed presumptuous to say the least.
There were several legit reasons for doing realty work alongside the daily studio grind: Earning a second income, opportunities to network with potential clients, better understanding the local real estate market, or simply a keen interest in the realty business without actually working in it. Some young entrepreneurial designers found realtor credentials helpful in convincing clients to work with them on the design side.
What do you guys think - Are there professional ethics concerns? Business benefits?
They get a better percentage than we do sometimes...
Nearly every time.
The realtor's overhead expense is generally a lot lower as well.
Because they want to afford to buy a house some day (/s maybe?)
The booms were more lucrative in Real Estate, but not so much going forward since the NAR antitrust case/settlement. It was easy these past few years but now its oversaturated and a housing downturn/recession is going decimate it like it will architecture/construction.
From my very inexperienced perspective (re: property ownership), realtors are an arbitrary role required by our financial/legal structure that manages land. Which is to say, it's just a routine task someone does and they happen to get a lot of money for doing it. Like a gas station clerk.
Being in the building industry, you have to make decisions and priorities about making something that starts out undefined, usually with the input and collaboration of hundreds of other parties. This is why I like our work.
They're just different IMO. It seems like a lucrative side hustle to me.
while I appreciate the deprication on realtors, I think this take isn't entirely accurate. For one thing, a realtor is "making" the deal/transaction of the land from one party to another and doing the legwork of making that deal go through. While realtors aren't actually allowed to draw up contracts from scratch the way architects are, and are relegated to filling in pre-made forms, the service of helping on contract terms and price negotiation/valuation is probably valuable to buyers and sellers overall. I do wish realtors didn't make such high commissions however...
I think realtors are more like salesman. They rely heavily on networking and sales pitch skills. I think most architects, due to the professionalism associated with the license and work, will be more honest and technical.
Imagine an architect goes to show the client a house. Then immediately goes, the layout is not efficient, the material used is low grade, etc. Architects can spot many things wrong with our trained eyes and experience. The realtors probably would just spit ball whatever in order to sell the property.
I went to a couple of seminars / presentation by an Architect / Realtor / Developer from Calgary a number of years back. He had created a great little niche for himself and their small team of designers / builders. All very hands on and basically had worked up a concept to cut out the meddlesome middle men to deliver both new and renovated projects to the urban / suburban market looking for newish modern design. All seemed to work very well and by cutting out the middlemen managed to delivery better quality projects to the market at a better price. www.housebrand.ca
A friend of mine, my marketing assistant at my former firm, is a designer/realtor/developer/builder and extremely successful at it. I wish I could have figured out how to fully realize her talents!
I appreciated for the hands on approach and designer/builder savvy that Housebrand brought to the market. The approach also aligns with my own sensibilities so I appreciated the strategy. They appear to be successful in a very suburban market place ... clearly an area where there is likely a real need. I don't know the Calgary scene but I could see why they were successful. I also guess you could reference Jonathon Segal for larger scale work ( often noted architect / developer in Southern California ) who gets noted in multiple threads on this site.
You guys bring up excellent points - leading me to realize that almost all the architect-realtors I've encountered happened to be entrepreneurs too. That is, they're not running off to open houses while doing CDs for the boss. Instead, they're offering design services to home buyers - and some are looking into real estate development. Now the decision to foray into realty makes more sense.
I suspect the target strategy of getting a real estate license is access to what properties come to the listing service first and jumping them prior to going to the market at large.
Otherwise, the real estate sales game takes a lot of weekly time to do well, and it's usually weekend & night time when shoppers want to interact with the home sales. I can't imagine that kind of effort on top of a regular design practice.
Work is work. If you get paid, great. Also, what is the difficulty of the work involved. Is the work "easy" but still busy work or is it very complex and difficult work that is also busy work? Is the easier work paying better and involve less liability risk? Then why not. Do less architectural projects (maybe half as many projects) and still get paid as much. So you spend weekends. If you work on houses and similar work, you work weekends. You take your days off or you reduce some of the hours on the less busy days. Why do we work weekends in SFRs and such, because clients may have a job during the week and they can't meet during the weekdays because weekends are your days off and the 30 minutes to 1 hour lunch break isn't long enough for that.
Usually, one of the days and frequently Saturday more than Sunday.
We have business hours. We don't do meetings on evenings, early mornings or weekends -- tho we do get some folks who think we should do house calls on demand because they are SO busy with all the things...yeah, no...this isn't uber
We do it because that is standard practice. Of course, those are by appointment, though. We accommodate with working clients who can not stop work to meet for 2 or 3 hours on something when they have a job where they are suppose to be working. Don't get your clients fired from their job. When they are working during the weekdays like you, they are on the clock. I have flexibility to work weekend and schedule my hours. They have bosses that controls their work schedule. That is why we work weekend. It might mean I tweak some hours on the weekdays as needed. These weekend (often Saturday only but on the occassion Sunday) is partial days. Sometimes, it may also be used to grind to get things done on schedule.
If I had employees, I may not have all the employees work weekends. It would be me, business partners, and anyone else in responsible charge or otherwise need to be there. Sometimes, it is to visit the site with the client. Sometimes, it is a meeting over Zoom but we have to be on a session longer than a lunch break. If the client is an employee (not my own but work for someone else or some company), they have their job they have to do and are not necessarily in control of their hours. Secondly, you aren't suppose to use sick days for not showing up to work. You need to be sick to actually use it legally and correctly otherwise it actually fraud and a form of unlawful lying. Vacation days, sure but people aren't going to use those up, either unless they somehow can't meet on the weekend. However, employees are expected to work every minute minus the lunch break and any the two small break periods or whatever according to labor law. Every single minute not part of that allotted breaks, they are expected to work. How is a client meeting with me or you about designing their home have anything to do with the client's job and his/her/their employer? It is personal stuff. I do work with real people not just these fake plastic business suits individuals.
It's basically 'customer service' or "client service" if you like to refer to it in the latter.
Believe it or not: customer service still exists within business hours. If someone needs to take a couple hours to meet with their architect/lawyer/dentist/medium, it's not going to burn all their PTO.
Lets make this clear, I am not talking Paid Leave. That's distinct from other paid time off for vacation and holidays and maybe a handful of days for short term sick days not considered part of the Paid Leave. There is also unpaid time off. PTO and UTO are not required in Oregon. Paid Leave is required for employers with a certain number of employees or higher or otherwise part of the package. Employers may not have any benefits in their policies beyond the "Paid Leave" or not even that. In which case, missing a day of work equals laid off or being "fired" or simply "termination of employment". I don't necessarily know the exact reasons why a client is unable to meet on weekdays. If weekends is their available time to meet then that's something I would do. My competitors do meet their clients on weekends or Saturdays. They do it. Why should I provide an inferior customer service, by being less available? Meeting on weekdays can be pretty hectic and busy and naturally I would be a tad more distracted with the things on my mind that I need to get done that day to stay on schedule. Those things are going to be on the mind more than it might be on a Saturday where it would typically be a lighter day for me. It wouldn't necessarily be a full day. If anything, it would likely be a more relaxed day especially if I am on schedule with the work during the weekdays and ready for next week.
Meeting prospective clients is about procuring work and does nothing in itself to benefit the production of work for existing clients. So weekdays are often days I deal with active projects. Procuring projects serves to bring projects into the pipeline queue of projects so there is money flow so we are busy not sitting on our asses all day long during the week with nothing to do. Yet, they may and often have nothing to do with the existing project. The idea of procuring the next projects before the existing projects are done is the point of keeping busy.
architecture is just an education. I have several friends from architecture school who interned at an architecture firm for a little while and ultimately became realtors. They seem happy with their lives. They're able to have unique conversations with clients compared to other realtors.
The Architecture profession in general is not spectacular. So for many it just becomes a job/career. People change careers for different opportunities or lifestyles that suit them. I'd rather most realtors have an architecture background than others.
I know several architects as developers of their own projects.
I do too. They're on the verge of going bankrupt and say they'll never be able to retire.
Oh well, s***t happens.
It does. Being an architect is already has enough 'salesmanship' in it. I wouldn't want to add to that amount by being a developer. You'd always be 'on' whenever you left the house.
Only architect would think youre above everything.
Yet in reality , when you don't earn money , you're nothing.
NOTHING !
So go earn some money, instead of thinking realtors are below architect.
A realtor with knowledge of architecture can be a good thing for the buyers they work with. I've had several clients who bought properties and very quickly found themselves in a jam because the realtor gave them bad or incomplete information on zoning, building codes, etc. Sometimes it was ignorance on the part of the realtor, a few times it looked more like deliberate lies and omissions.