Master of Architecture and Master of Science in Real Estate Development.
I make more money in the real estate field than all my architecture peers. how much more you ask? anywhere from $40k-$50k more. And I just graduated just a couple years back.
How? Well, because my real estate firm liked that I had an architecture background.
So for all the prospective students - I implore you to explore the idea of getting a dual degree OR..just going straight for the MS.RED program. New York is the capital of real estate and to get into this program is highly coveted AND the most sensible idea.
also don't give me that "you went to the dark side" shit. School is an investment. If you're going to DROP $120K in debt for your tuition, you BETTER HOPE THAT WHEN YOU COME OUT YOU'RE MAKING at least $70-$90k. Thanks to my salary, there is nothing "dark" about paying off my loans within a year! If you're rich daddy and mommy is paying for you tuition then ignore.
This brings me to my other point - For those of who you got into the MS.AAD program...graduating from this program WILL NOT GUARANTEE YOU TO HAVE A BIGGER PAYCHECK. MOST LIKELY YOU WILL BE GUNNING FOR THE SAME POSITIONS AS YOUR M.ARCH PEERS (UNLESS YOU HAVE A CRAZY AMOUNT OF WORK EXPERIENCE but if you do, why are you even enrolling \ into a MS.AAD program?). I honestly don't know why people enroll in this program. It is obviously a ploy from the school to attract more business. Steer towards MS.RED instead.
Definitely having the Columbia name is great - most of my internships and job opportunities came from the Columbia network, but the MS.RED is a VERY VERY STRONG NETWORK. The M.arch is basically non-existent but they are trying to develop this. Archinect does a better job putting out jobs than the M.arch career office.
On the other hand, you get almost 1-2 emails a week about a job opening or internship opportunity from the MS.RED office. A lot of networking events, you get assigned to a mentor shares the same interest as you, weekly guest lectures (and often notable developers), and many other events that will get you going.
I should also tell you that my dream goal is to run my own design and build firm, which explains why i chose the path I took.
mattgehm
Mar 9, 17 2:34 am
This may be a stupid question, but did you apply to both programs simultaneously or branch into one or the other after singular acceptance?
Did you plan to stay in New York when you applied to the Columbia programs or did that pan out as school took shape?
How much design work vs. real estate (not sure how to classify this otherwise) work do you do?
How large is your firm?
What aside from the financial side of things drew you towards real estate? Are you happier now?
Bench
Mar 9, 17 4:10 am
* To preface, this isn't a trick question *
To run a design/build firm, what's your gameplan for the design side? Sounds like you're obviously getting an excellent jump into the business side of the coin, but having worked for 2 years now post-M.Arch, Im only just starting to get my head around a lot of the contractual/legal processes of getting something built. I'm genuinely curious how you plan to pursue it without the tradition of working under another architect to learn the ropes of both design and management of a project.
randomised
Mar 9, 17 5:14 am
What's with the shouting?
linhou
Mar 9, 17 9:51 am
How long does it take you to finish the dual major? Can people finish it in 3 years?
ivorykeyboard
Mar 9, 17 12:32 pm
i feel like i walked in on a billy mays commercial.
it may shock you that some people don't value an additional 40k more as much as a day to day role that they find more life satisfaction in.
Billy Mays sold Oxyclean to the angels and their robes have never been whiter.
Chemex
Mar 9, 17 12:50 pm
You could go into real estate, on the other hand, you will be miserable and will never have credibility in real architecture again, and will probably become a cokehead by age 30. But cheer up, you could be president by age 70.
GSAPP is a joke to put this much debt on any arts graduate students. Their administrators should go to jail.
chigurh
Mar 9, 17 4:50 pm
do you wear a monocle and bow tie? or a top hat and cane?
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:23 pm
This may be a stupid question, but did you apply to both programs simultaneously or branch into one or the other after singular acceptance?
I applied to the M.arch program first and then I applied once i got in. I believe you have a much higher chance of getting into the MS.RED program once you're in the M.arch program. I heard they like to take their own, but don't take my word for it. I feel like every year after I applied more and more students began to take notice and started to apply as well. I think only one person didn't get in.
Did you plan to stay in New York when you applied to the Columbia programs or did that pan out as school took shape?
I am going to stay here for a couple more years to learn what I need to learn before I move somewhere to start my own firm. But as of now, staying in NY is the best choice and opportunity,
How much design work vs. real estate (not sure how to classify this otherwise) work do you do?
I would say equal, but I don't really do "design" work. I do work with architects occasionally to comment on their floorplans, renderings, and general direction for a specific development (like finishes, etc.)
How large is your firm?
medium size.
What aside from the financial side of things drew you towards real estate? Are you happier now?
I worked with a couple of design and build firms (there's many in NY just like Jonathan Segal) who are their own developers but they're architects. It was a enlightening experience to really just do what you want to do.
Am I happier now? Yes! definitely! People think it's a 9-6PM desk job, but I work on multiple projects in a week and it's very fast pace and all that jazz. I am learning what I want to learn while I am getting paid for it. That's the good part, I don't have to live pay check to pay check. I can pay rent, pay my loans, and not live frugally.
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:29 pm
* To preface, this isn't a trick question *
To run a design/build firm, what's your gameplan for the design side? Sounds like you're obviously getting an excellent jump into the business side of the coin, but having worked for 2 years now post-M.Arch, Im only just starting to get my head around a lot of the contractual/legal processes of getting something built. I'm genuinely curious how you plan to pursue it without the tradition of working under another architect to learn the ropes of both design and management of a project.
I still have a lot to learn myself in both design and the business side of things, so I am still figuring out as I go. As of now, I am more focused in the business side still in terms of how to develop unit mixes, pricing strategies, etc. For design, I figure you can always contract it out or hire other people to do the grunt work haha. but it's true. Hopefully I answered your question.
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:29 pm
How long does it take you to finish the dual major? Can people finish it in 3 years?
3.5 years.
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:42 pm
i feel like i walked in on a billy mays commercial.
it may shock you that some people don't value an additional 40k more as much as a day to day role that they find more life satisfaction in.
Ok, if you're rich and can afford to go to Columbia and not worry about a $40-$60k salary then fine, maybe your statement rings true.
BUT.. if you have already accrued debt from your undergrad and you plan on stacking another $120k+ on top of that...how can you possibly be SATISIFED with a $40-$60k salary?
JUST THINK FOR A SECOND. most of your paycheck will be paying rent/loans for the next 5-10..20 years? are you kidding me? you think anyone is SATISFIED when 3/4 of your paycheck is NOT FOR YOU???? ANDDONT FORGET YOU'LL BE WORKING OVERTIME WITHOUT OVERTIME PAY. Yeah, don't try to feed other people about this "people aren't concerned with money". I am just giving prospective students the cold, hard facts. Sometimes they're so overwhelmed by this "I got into an ivy league school!!" they overlook the fact that it's going to cost a sh!t ton of money with no returns until you're 40-60 years old.
Columbia is a great school nonetheless. If you can afford it great. If you can't...well think elsewhere. If you want to get into the MS.RED program, I SAY GO FOR IT!
also google the GSAPP salary survey or whatever to get a general sense of where Alumni's from different programs are getting paid.
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:43 pm
You could go into real estate, on the other hand, you will be miserable and will never have credibility in real architecture again, and will probably become a cokehead by age 30. But cheer up, you could be president by age 70.
GSAPP is a joke to put this much debt on any arts graduate students. Their administrators should go to jail
yeah, the cost of this school is UNREAL. Disagree with your above statement though.
batman
Mar 9, 17 6:45 pm
do you wear a monocle and bow tie? or a top hat and cane?
I dont,but i am pretty sure I can afford all that without buyers remorse/regret.
chigurh
Mar 9, 17 6:47 pm
do you use a cigarette holder?
JLC-1
Mar 9, 17 6:52 pm
How many bodies can you fit in a Fiat 500?
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 17 8:09 pm
I can only read those statements while imagining grand hand waving gestures.
JLC-1
Mar 10, 17 10:03 am
and some background opera.
yoyoyoyoyo
Mar 10, 17 5:38 am
Sounds interesting and I don’t think its dark.
How abt the workload in these 3.5 years? M.Arch is already crazy, is it even more stressful to take the dual degree? Does the workload results in affecting your M.Arch grade?
So are you working in a design & build firm now? And if I get it correctly you are earning $40k - $50k per month?
Is it difficult to go back to pure architecture firm after spending all those years in the real estate field?
Did you work as intern in the summer in those years? Were they design work or real estate work?
Sorry to ask about this unrelated question here but I emailed you a few days ago asking about deferral. Can I know if you needa provide any proof of your family issue which made you unable to attend the program that year? Are there other GSAPP students successfully defer by reasons other than medical issue? Does GSAPP usually allow deferral?
Thanks.
batman
Mar 10, 17 11:43 pm
How abt the workload in these 3.5 years? M.Arch is already crazy, is it even more stressful to take the dual degree? Does the workload results in affecting your M.Arch grade?'
absolutely. studios is intense enough already.just good time management and perseverance will get you through. also grades don't matter in grad school unless you want awards? but do awards get you better jobs? not necessarily.
So are you working in a design & build firm now? And if I get it correctly you are earning $40k - $50k per month?
Yes i am currently working for a design and build firm. I get paid $40-50k MORE than my architecture peers. I wish I get paid $40-$50k a month.
Is it difficult to go back to pure architecture firm after spending all those years in the real estate field?
hhmm.. i well technically I am still in architecture?
Did you work as intern in the summer in those years? Were they design work or real estate work?
definitely. i interned where I worked now which is both design and real estate.
Sorry to ask about this unrelated question here but I emailed you a few days ago asking about deferral. Can I know if you needa provide any proof of your family issue which made you unable to attend the program that year? Are there other GSAPP students successfully defer by reasons other than medical issue? Does GSAPP usually allow deferral?
no, i didn't provide any proof, they didn't ask me for one since it's kind of rude/disrespectful to ask for my situation (in my opinion at least) maybe they changed the policy or just saying that to discourage people from trying ? I dont know any other GSAPP students that got a deferral. I BELIEVE that GSAPP will allow deferrals under the right circumstances. Like I said, if you do intend to go but need to save up, I suggest maybe paying for the initial deposit (its $700 or so) just so they know you're committed but then tell them you can't attend and see what happens. worse case scenario is see if you can get your deposit back.
amazed_corgi
Mar 14, 17 10:50 am
Hi. I would like to ask if MArch students can do individual thesis in the final semester? I have read about the MArch curriculum only found out they have core design studio and advanced design studio. Thanks.
batman
Mar 14, 17 1:15 pm
I have never heard or seen anyone done an individual thesis before. Like a GSD thesis? there's no such thing. However, some professors in your last studio do want you to approach the studio topic in a very thesis way.
yoyoyoyoyo
Mar 15, 17 3:32 am
How much extra did u pay for the tuition fee of the MSRED program?
Are you an international student? Just wondering if you have any scholarship/ financial aids offered by the school? I will get a F1 visa to study in the States so I am not eligible to the university’s financial aids.
How much in general do M.Arch graduates earn per month after graduation?
Which firms are most likely to hire GSAPP M.Arch graduates?
batman
Mar 15, 17 11:03 am
you just pay an additional two semesters worth. No, I am not an international student. I did not receive any need-base scholarships. In terms of graduate salaries - I suggest google the GSAPP survey that some alumni's did awhile back. I haven't asked any of my peers, but I can safely assume no one makes anything higher than $60K a year. If you're making $60K a year out of grad school I would say you're pretty lucky. Anything around the $40-$50K a year is a safe assumption. In terms of firms - from big to small - you name it, SOM, KPF, etc. I think we have a pretty solid network here, it's just that YOU have to initiate the networking. The M.ARCH program sucks at helping students out in terms of career, but they're working on it. It's not like the MS.RED program where they setup job fairs, networking events, etc. to help students find jobs.
yoyoyoyoyo
Mar 16, 17 12:27 am
When shd the interested M.Arch students apply for MSRED? By the end of sem1?
batman
Mar 16, 17 2:15 pm
yes, that is correct
yoyoyoyoyo
Mar 16, 17 11:18 pm
How many students choose the dual program each year?
batman
Jul 19, 17 5:07 pm
I would say around 5-6? Some of them will probably just drop the M.arch program and just do the MS.RED program.
banedilbi
Mar 15, 17 10:41 am
Did you live on campus or off-campus? What are their dorms like (if yes)? I read on the website that it's very difficult to try and secure on campus accommodation. What do you recommend is the best way to find housing? and which areas are relatively close/affordable/ have other gsapp students.
Thanks!
batman
Mar 15, 17 10:57 am
I lived near campus in their graduate housing. The graduate housing can vary in terms of layout/cleanliness/style, but most of the housing I visited were fairly well kept, safe, and spacious. For the price it's pretty worth it in terms of size and convenience. But there are options housing options that are cheaper, but you just have to look for it. There's a webpage that is Columbia owned where you can look up other housing options or find people to live with. I don't remember the link off the top of my head at the moment. Should you look for other housing then definitely start there. I have to say anything below Martin Luther King Blvd is pretty safe, but I have seen students live pass that and east of morningside ave. Columbia is expanding north of Martin Luther King Blvd with their new campus expansion and it's only a matter of time that area gets gentrified, if not already.
banedilbi
Mar 15, 17 11:31 am
Thanks for your response! the course I got accepted to is one year course and starts in the summer - do you know if they offer summer accommodation only/ or summer-fall-spring continuous?
batman
Jul 19, 17 5:08 pm
For the NYC/Paris program? I believe they do..
linhou
Mar 15, 17 7:21 pm
Do you like real estate job? do you feel like that you can be an architect in the future again? or you stay in the real estate? Are you an international student? Does the real estate company welcome international students?
batman
Mar 15, 17 7:30 pm
of course i like my real estate job. if i didnt i wouldnt have taken it. and just beacuse its a real estate job doesn't automatically make the job crappy. If a job INTERESTS YOU, then go for it. that's where I am now right now. And yes i feel like i can be an architect in the future again because I also work with architects. I plan to stay in both architecture AND real estate in my future. And no, i am not an international student. and yes, they will hire anybody as long as you're qualified.
archanonymous
Mar 15, 17 8:23 pm
In what course and or level of study do they teach future Harvard grads to be condescending pricks?
batman
Mar 15, 17 8:24 pm
studio 1
anuvindah
Mar 21, 17 12:06 pm
Do you know anything about the MSUP program at Columbia and where the graduates go to? I am having a hard time deciding between Columbia and UPenn.
At UPenn, I am thinking of getting the MCP with a concentration on urban design and a certificate in real estate design and development. My background is in architecture, and I am an international student. I am looking to get the maximum value out of my graduate education.
At Columbia, I am thinking of the urban analytics and international development tracks. I ofc have no idea how that can translate into real world work.
Would appreciate your honest opinion.
batman
Mar 21, 17 8:02 pm
unfortunately i don't know anything about the urban planning program or where students go. they tend to keep it to themselves (or we (architects) tend to ignore them.). What exactly are you trying to do? Like what is your end goal here? if you're trying to do real estate at the end then my suggestion is not go to UPENN. I don't know the certificate program too well, but I can probably say that a MSRED degree will be greater than just a certificate. I can't imagine you can learn a lot in a certificate curriculum if you have no background in real estate whatsoever. The MSRED program is for beginners; everybody starts during the summer and by the end of it everyone will be on the same page in terms of excel skills, real estate basics, and so forth.
anuvindah
Mar 28, 17 3:26 pm
Well, it's interesting that you don't know about the program. I talked one of the students at their MSUP program and they themselves don't seem aware where the Phd students or anyone else goes to for that.
anuvindah
Mar 28, 17 4:06 pm
Well, my end goal is to gain knowledge of how real estate works because I feel like it has a great influence on the development of cities( also a greater say). Furthermore, I am interested in the financing and funding aspects of various projects.
I would have considered the MSRED at Columbia, but I am trying to take the shortest and most efficient route here. And also as an international student, it's more expensive.
The core courses for the certificate at Penn are Progressive Development, Real Estate Investments, Analysis, & Finance, and Real Estate Development. Then I could pick 2 more courses from Design & Development, Project Management, Property Development and Real Estate Law. It is jointly conferred by PennDesign and Wharton. Also, I could take my MCP program with the concentration public-private development. But I don't consider myself to be that 'businessy', or rather it is a side that I am yet to explore.
So I am really torn between an amazing education at Columbia where I will get to explore and yet another amazing education at UPenn, but more practical and businessy.
Also, I would love to hear more about the dark world of real estate, ie if you don't mind! Or maybe you could point me to a blog post or article that you have written which would help.
Thank you!
batman
Jul 19, 17 5:08 pm
it's not that dark when you're making a lot of money
ae_0
Mar 22, 17 1:12 pm
Hi,
I understand that you have a pessimistic view about the MsAAD program. My understanding was that majority of people who enroll in this program are willing to have careers in research/academia and use the program to test out/develop their particular agendas/make connections in pursuit of a perhaps more theoretical career. Would you care to expand on your opinions? Would you really say that this is a program kept intact by the school to "keep the business running"? My view as an outsider was that it's a highly regarded program despite a relatively higher acceptance rate.
Thank you,
batman
Mar 22, 17 7:48 pm
The majority of the people I know who graduated from MsAAD program are in Arch firms rather than teaching. The program doesn't really cater to academic pursuits; it's just another 3 semesters of studios, history courses, and electives IMO (look at the courses and certainly it just looks like another year worth of studios). Certainly coming back to school you can redeem some qualities that you didn't have during your undergraduate endeavors; as you mentioned, you can certainly find connections from a professor that you like, have a shot at being a TA for an M.arch studio, or pursue an individual research with a professor. I think my general opinion about the MS.AAD is that it is not a necessary degree you need to pursue to obtain what you want. You want to teach studios? You can also just work and gain a lot of experience that will be highly valuable on your resume. Hopefully I answered your question.
hajkhu
Jun 27, 17 1:10 am
Hello,
Thank you for this, all the information is really useful!!
Did you apply to both the M.Arch and Masters of Real Estate and Development programs concurrently, or start off as an M.Arch then apply to the MRED program?
How hard is it to get accepted into the MRED program, if you lack experience (0-3 yrs)? *Whilst I do lack several years of experience, my experience includes co founding an engineering consultancy (How helpful will this be?)
How many students does Columbia's MRED program take in a year?
How much of a factor is GPA, versus non-degree post graduate courses (e.g. professional certificates), experience, rec. letters, GRE scores...etc. in the application/acceptance process (basically what are they looking for)?
I'm an International student with an American B. Arch degree, with a passion for development. What backgrounds d students come from, and would you say it would be a tough transition from an Architectural background to the MRED program at Columbia? Do you recommend any other similar good programs? (and what do you think of Pratt's Real Estate practice, or Urban Place-Making program?)
batman
Jul 18, 17 6:49 pm
Sorry for the late reply! I thought had died due to a lot of trolls on here. read below for answers!
Did you apply to both the M.Arch and Masters of Real Estate and Development programs concurrently, or start off as an M.Arch then apply to the MRED program?
How hard is it to get accepted into the MRED program, if you lack experience (0-3 yrs)? *Whilst I do lack several years of experience, my experience includes co founding an engineering consultancy (How helpful will this be?)
How many students does Columbia's MRED program take in a year?
How much of a factor is GPA, versus non-degree post graduate courses (e.g. professional certificates), experience, rec. letters, GRE scores...etc. in the application/acceptance process (basically what are they looking for)?
I'm an International student with an American B. Arch degree, with a passion for development. What backgrounds d students come from, and would you say it would be a tough transition from an Architectural background to the MRED program at Columbia? Do you recommend any other similar good programs? (and what do you think of Pratt's Real Estate practice, or Urban Place-Making program?)
ritumalhotra
Jul 17, 17 7:07 am
Hello,
Thank you for your offer to help ...
I am an architect and would like to pursue the MS in Urban design and the MS RED programme in Columbia. It is not a designated dual degree . I cannot afford a three year tuition and i think the above two can be completed in 2 years . pl advise how do i go about applying for this. Do i apply for MSAUD and then later apply for MSRED ?
batman
Jul 18, 17 6:59 pm
I am not too sure but best to ask the administrators! but yes, i believe if you can get in the MSAUD program, you can apply to the MSRED after the fall semester.
baboo.fei
Mar 16, 23 11:21 pm
Have a friend who is doing exactly just that, might be able to connect you guys if interested.
ianlee
Aug 29, 17 6:14 pm
Hi there,
Just wondering whom you may have used for your letters of rec after your fall semester of the M.Arch? I have no previous background in real estate and am thinking of applying to the MS.RED after fall, do you know what the general rule of thumb may be?
All my best
batman
May 20, 20 1:25 pm
i asked my architecture professors at GSAPP to give me letters of rec
ecnal
Aug 29, 17 9:35 pm
Well... unsolicited comment, but... why the fuck would anyone study architecture to become a real estate agent?
You study architecture to do architecture I would think.
batman
Nov 6, 17 4:22 pm
You can be a real estate agent/broker if you want, it's good money on the side, but shouldn't be your main job. But already answered below, you study real estate IN CONJUNCTION with architecture because you get to see and understand both sides of the table (financial vs. creative). This can enable you to become a developer/builder (design and build). If you still don't understand this then look up jonathan segal. Also you shouldn't have a naive thinking that, "if you study architecture YOU SHOULD DO ARCHITECTURE ONLY"
baboo.fei
Mar 16, 23 11:20 pm
“real estate agent” oh buddy…
archinine
Aug 29, 17 10:49 pm
An ms red is for becoming a developer not an agent. A developer does more of what most people think architects do, as in actually get buildings built. So you thinks wrong.
ecnal
Aug 30, 17 12:12 am
Developer, agent, whatever, fuck all to do with architecture.
Spoons
Aug 30, 17 1:14 am
I don't think you understand how any of this works.
ecnal
Aug 31, 17 5:14 am
I would think it is stating the obvious.
shji
Nov 6, 17 2:49 pm
Hey batman,
I am planning to apply to Columbia MSRED this year. But I am worried about my 3.2 GPA and GMAT scores. What is average gpa/GMAT for admission like? Do they put much weight on GMAT? Also what do students in Columbia MSRED think about NYU MSRE?
batman
Nov 6, 17 4:33 pm
I don't know the average gpa/gmat score; they dont post that publicly.
batman
Nov 6, 17 4:33 pm
NYU is a well regarded program, but i think Columbia is stronger given it's an "IVY" school
shji
Nov 6, 17 5:03 pm
Thanks!
Two more questions for you. How competitive is the admission? This is a dumb questions but do you think it is even worth the application fee to apply with 3.2 gpa and 650 gmat?
placebeyondthesplines
Nov 6, 17 5:17 pm
nope! that's terrible!
batman
Nov 6, 17 7:54 pm
I don't know, id give it a try. It doesn't hurt to try. If it was me, id still pay for the application just to know id gave it a shot. you really dont know until you tried.
shji
Nov 6, 17 7:05 pm
One more question haha. I appreciate your answers. Is development field the most prevalent field after school or is it a balanced mix of dev. and RE finance? Thank you!!!
batman
Nov 6, 17 7:57 pm
its a mix. there's 100+ students that get accepted every year. Not all of them are interested in development. Some want to be in private equity, some go into asset management, some go into project management, some got into underwriting, etc. It's a huge mix due to the array of courses that set you up on the right path.
needle
Nov 6, 17 7:42 pm
Hello,
Thank you for all of this info and for ignoring the trolls. I am wondering what you think about skipping the M.Arch program and just going for the MS.RED. My undergrad degree is in fine arts, but I have been working on and off at architecture firms since matriculation. Ideally, I design, but I am also very interested in development.
How much of the M.Arch degree applies to your profitable and enjoyable work as a developer?
Could you have skipped the M.Arch part?
Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you again.
batman
Nov 6, 17 8:03 pm
i can't tell if youre serious since i sense a little bit of sarcasm in there. regardless ill answer your question because im a nice person. i could have skipped the M.arch to save money, and just finish the MS.RED in one year. I have seen several students do that within my time at GSAPP. they do it because they dont want to accrue more loans or just want to be in the work force already. But i didn't want to quit because I still want to be a licensed architect and i still like/want to design buildings. I think the M.arch helps a lot - it makes people think i know how to design even though i never had more than 5+ years of experience in a architecture field! but also the knowledge from working with design applications IS SUCH A GREAT ASSET! people are like, OMGAH YOURE A DESIGNER!
needle
Nov 6, 17 8:06 pm
No sarcasm whatsoever! Thank you for the response.
For the exact reasons you stated above, I am having a tough time deciding whether or not to go through with the 3.5-year dual degree, or just do the MS.RED. I guess I can apply to both and see if I even get in before having this debate. :D
shreyagandhi
Apr 20, 18 3:36 pm
hi,
How many years of work experiences did you have before you got into MSRED?
batman
May 20, 20 1:23 pm
i didnt have any prior real estate experience. just architecture internships.
eeec
Sep 2, 19 9:58 pm
what was your gre score?
batman
May 20, 20 1:23 pm
i dont remember, but it wasn't great.
nikshithreddy
Apr 11, 20 5:16 pm
hey batman!!
Thank you for your interesting insights on the M.ARCH and MS.RED dual degree. I have been admitted to UMICH for the M.ARCH 2 year path and considering the real estate certificate whichI will complete in the same time as my M.ARCH. As my goal is to have my design and build firm somewhere down the line!
Do you see the certificate in real estate as an asset/not so when compared to pursuing the degree in real estate? how does it differ if I applied for a job with a developer?
I see that I can save a lot of time and money by having a certificate than pursue a degree in real estate. Your insights are valuable! Hope to hear soon!
batman
May 20, 20 1:22 pm
i think one of the advantages going into a degree route in MSRED is the networking. GSAPP does a good job of providing a lot of job postings, much more so than the architecture department. it depends on what you are taking in the certificate course, but finance and learning excel is a high focus.
Arch18
Apr 11, 20 8:37 pm
Hi Batman,
I'm starting Columbia's March program in the fall. I was wondering if you had prior experience working in real estate before getting that first job after your Masters. Did you have previous internships in the field? how and when did you transition? what was your first position and in what area?
batman
May 20, 20 1:20 pm
i did not have any prior experience. i did intern for an architecture + development firm in NY while i was at GSAPP.
archi_gram
Apr 11, 20 9:31 pm
What did you study for undergrad? What are real estate courses like? Is it mostly economics finance with a little less law and policies and a few math?
batman
May 20, 20 1:19 pm
I studied architecture as well. the courses are many - core classes focus on finance and law. then are are elective which can range from private equity, distressed debt, and lots more.
batman
May 20, 20 1:26 pm
Sorry for the late reply. been busy and forgot about the architecture world. as an update, i do not regret going into MSRED at all. congrats to those who applied and got in. you wont regret it.
michaelsu
Jul 3, 21 4:38 am
Hi batman, I wonder how much can a MRSRED student earns after graduate? Is 40~50K per year? Gosh, tuition of this amazing Uni is sooo expensive. Could you remember how approximate costs have you spent for this 3 yrs course? I am an international students, maybe it will be more higher, so I'm afraid that I have to spend half of my life to win the cost back.
Have a lovely day!
batman
Jan 12, 22 12:04 am
depending on experience your starting salary can be $80-$90k. i dont remember the total cost of my tuition, maybe $120k?
octocat
Jan 12, 22 5:33 pm
Hi batman, are recommendation letters important? Do you think that they will review an application without three letters of recommendation as required. I'm struggling to get three. Thank you.
batman
Jan 12, 22 10:29 pm
need 3, then get 3.
nikshithreddy
Jan 12, 22 7:47 pm
hello Batman,
I am currently an M.ARCH + certificate in real estate development student at University of Michigan. I saw you interned at an architecture + development firm before this. I would love to have a conversation with you hopefully and also would like to know the company you worked for.
the company i worked for is no longer in business. not because it was a failing business, but because the founder retired
Ak311
Sep 14, 22 2:52 pm
Hello batman!
What does your job description entail after doing MSRED?
what do you work on, on a daily basis?
batman
Sep 22, 22 11:40 pm
i work on redlining floorplans, research, site tours, showroom tours. no pro-forma/finance stuff.
Ak311
Sep 23, 22 3:23 am
Would you say your pay and work hours are better than that of an architect ?
rgastelum
Mar 16, 23 9:13 pm
Hello, I ran into this thread regarding the MSRED program at Columbia GSAPP. I am about to make a decision to attend as an international student.
I am very interested in this helping with a design-build firm I have back in Mexico, but would like to know if I can get into the industry for a while in NYC to pay back some of the tuition and learn at the center of it all... How likely do you think it is for someone like me to land a job after doing my CPT/OPT there? Did you have any colleagues in this situation who might share their experiences?
Best regards and thank you in advance
ham1
Mar 16, 23 10:51 pm
Hi Batman,
I've also just been admitted, forgot how big this thread was. I was curious if you knew about how the MSRED compared to the Graduate Certificate of Real Estate Development at Berkeley and Penn (each would be taken concurrently with an M.Arch I).
baboo.fei
Mar 16, 23 11:27 pm
Thanks for the Q&A @batman, really appreciate the insights and thoughtful answers.
Just wondering what kind of roles/verticals (development, investment, lending, etc.) do MSRED grads usually end up in? Seems like relatively few place into REIB or PE directly, and those who did had finance background prior to program entry.
And also given current macro print, how do you think about your own career trajectory? Are you looking to stay where you are long-term?
linhvu
May 27, 23 3:43 pm
What was your undergrad GPA when you applied? I'm a junior in undergrad and mine's at slightly higher than 3.8 and I don't know if that is enough. Thanks!
i graduated from a dual masters degree from GSAPP
Master of Architecture and Master of Science in Real Estate Development.
I make more money in the real estate field than all my architecture peers. how much more you ask? anywhere from $40k-$50k more. And I just graduated just a couple years back.
How? Well, because my real estate firm liked that I had an architecture background.
So for all the prospective students - I implore you to explore the idea of getting a dual degree OR..just going straight for the MS.RED program. New York is the capital of real estate and to get into this program is highly coveted AND the most sensible idea.
also don't give me that "you went to the dark side" shit. School is an investment. If you're going to DROP $120K in debt for your tuition, you BETTER HOPE THAT WHEN YOU COME OUT YOU'RE MAKING at least $70-$90k. Thanks to my salary, there is nothing "dark" about paying off my loans within a year! If you're rich daddy and mommy is paying for you tuition then ignore.
This brings me to my other point - For those of who you got into the MS.AAD program...graduating from this program WILL NOT GUARANTEE YOU TO HAVE A BIGGER PAYCHECK. MOST LIKELY YOU WILL BE GUNNING FOR THE SAME POSITIONS AS YOUR M.ARCH PEERS (UNLESS YOU HAVE A CRAZY AMOUNT OF WORK EXPERIENCE but if you do, why are you even enrolling \ into a MS.AAD program?). I honestly don't know why people enroll in this program. It is obviously a ploy from the school to attract more business. Steer towards MS.RED instead.
Definitely having the Columbia name is great - most of my internships and job opportunities came from the Columbia network, but the MS.RED is a VERY VERY STRONG NETWORK. The M.arch is basically non-existent but they are trying to develop this. Archinect does a better job putting out jobs than the M.arch career office.
On the other hand, you get almost 1-2 emails a week about a job opening or internship opportunity from the MS.RED office. A lot of networking events, you get assigned to a mentor shares the same interest as you, weekly guest lectures (and often notable developers), and many other events that will get you going.
I should also tell you that my dream goal is to run my own design and build firm, which explains why i chose the path I took.
This may be a stupid question, but did you apply to both programs simultaneously or branch into one or the other after singular acceptance?
Did you plan to stay in New York when you applied to the Columbia programs or did that pan out as school took shape?
How much design work vs. real estate (not sure how to classify this otherwise) work do you do?
How large is your firm?
What aside from the financial side of things drew you towards real estate? Are you happier now?
* To preface, this isn't a trick question *
To run a design/build firm, what's your gameplan for the design side? Sounds like you're obviously getting an excellent jump into the business side of the coin, but having worked for 2 years now post-M.Arch, Im only just starting to get my head around a lot of the contractual/legal processes of getting something built. I'm genuinely curious how you plan to pursue it without the tradition of working under another architect to learn the ropes of both design and management of a project.
What's with the shouting?
How long does it take you to finish the dual major? Can people finish it in 3 years?
i feel like i walked in on a billy mays commercial.
it may shock you that some people don't value an additional 40k more as much as a day to day role that they find more life satisfaction in.
wall street journal:
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/
Billy Mays sold Oxyclean to the angels and their robes have never been whiter.
You could go into real estate, on the other hand, you will be miserable and will never have credibility in real architecture again, and will probably become a cokehead by age 30. But cheer up, you could be president by age 70.
GSAPP is a joke to put this much debt on any arts graduate students. Their administrators should go to jail.
do you wear a monocle and bow tie? or a top hat and cane?
This may be a stupid question, but did you apply to both programs simultaneously or branch into one or the other after singular acceptance?
I applied to the M.arch program first and then I applied once i got in. I believe you have a much higher chance of getting into the MS.RED program once you're in the M.arch program. I heard they like to take their own, but don't take my word for it. I feel like every year after I applied more and more students began to take notice and started to apply as well. I think only one person didn't get in.
Did you plan to stay in New York when you applied to the Columbia programs or did that pan out as school took shape?
I am going to stay here for a couple more years to learn what I need to learn before I move somewhere to start my own firm. But as of now, staying in NY is the best choice and opportunity,
How much design work vs. real estate (not sure how to classify this otherwise) work do you do?
I would say equal, but I don't really do "design" work. I do work with architects occasionally to comment on their floorplans, renderings, and general direction for a specific development (like finishes, etc.)
How large is your firm?
medium size.
What aside from the financial side of things drew you towards real estate? Are you happier now?
I worked with a couple of design and build firms (there's many in NY just like Jonathan Segal) who are their own developers but they're architects. It was a enlightening experience to really just do what you want to do.
Am I happier now? Yes! definitely! People think it's a 9-6PM desk job, but I work on multiple projects in a week and it's very fast pace and all that jazz. I am learning what I want to learn while I am getting paid for it. That's the good part, I don't have to live pay check to pay check. I can pay rent, pay my loans, and not live frugally.
* To preface, this isn't a trick question *
To run a design/build firm, what's your gameplan for the design side? Sounds like you're obviously getting an excellent jump into the business side of the coin, but having worked for 2 years now post-M.Arch, Im only just starting to get my head around a lot of the contractual/legal processes of getting something built. I'm genuinely curious how you plan to pursue it without the tradition of working under another architect to learn the ropes of both design and management of a project.
I still have a lot to learn myself in both design and the business side of things, so I am still figuring out as I go. As of now, I am more focused in the business side still in terms of how to develop unit mixes, pricing strategies, etc. For design, I figure you can always contract it out or hire other people to do the grunt work haha. but it's true. Hopefully I answered your question.
How long does it take you to finish the dual major? Can people finish it in 3 years?
3.5 years.
i feel like i walked in on a billy mays commercial.
it may shock you that some people don't value an additional 40k more as much as a day to day role that they find more life satisfaction in.
wall street journal:
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/
Ok, if you're rich and can afford to go to Columbia and not worry about a $40-$60k salary then fine, maybe your statement rings true.
BUT.. if you have already accrued debt from your undergrad and you plan on stacking another $120k+ on top of that...how can you possibly be SATISIFED with a $40-$60k salary?
JUST THINK FOR A SECOND. most of your paycheck will be paying rent/loans for the next 5-10..20 years? are you kidding me? you think anyone is SATISFIED when 3/4 of your paycheck is NOT FOR YOU???? AND DONT FORGET YOU'LL BE WORKING OVERTIME WITHOUT OVERTIME PAY. Yeah, don't try to feed other people about this "people aren't concerned with money". I am just giving prospective students the cold, hard facts. Sometimes they're so overwhelmed by this "I got into an ivy league school!!" they overlook the fact that it's going to cost a sh!t ton of money with no returns until you're 40-60 years old.
Columbia is a great school nonetheless. If you can afford it great. If you can't...well think elsewhere. If you want to get into the MS.RED program, I SAY GO FOR IT!
also google the GSAPP salary survey or whatever to get a general sense of where Alumni's from different programs are getting paid.
You could go into real estate, on the other hand, you will be miserable and will never have credibility in real architecture again, and will probably become a cokehead by age 30. But cheer up, you could be president by age 70.
GSAPP is a joke to put this much debt on any arts graduate students. Their administrators should go to jail
yeah, the cost of this school is UNREAL. Disagree with your above statement though.
do you wear a monocle and bow tie? or a top hat and cane?
I dont,but i am pretty sure I can afford all that without buyers remorse/regret.
do you use a cigarette holder?
How many bodies can you fit in a Fiat 500?
I can only read those statements while imagining grand hand waving gestures.
and some background opera.
Sounds interesting and I don’t think its dark.
How abt the workload in these 3.5 years? M.Arch is already crazy, is it even more stressful to take the dual degree? Does the workload results in affecting your M.Arch grade?
So are you working in a design & build firm now? And if I get it correctly you are earning $40k - $50k per month?
Is it difficult to go back to pure architecture firm after spending all those years in the real estate field?
Did you work as intern in the summer in those years? Were they design work or real estate work?
Sorry to ask about this unrelated question here but I emailed you a few days ago asking about deferral.
Can I know if you needa provide any proof of your family issue which made you unable to attend the program that year?
Are there other GSAPP students successfully defer by reasons other than medical issue?
Does GSAPP usually allow deferral?
Thanks.
How abt the workload in these 3.5 years? M.Arch is already crazy, is it even more stressful to take the dual degree? Does the workload results in affecting your M.Arch grade?'
absolutely. studios is intense enough already.just good time management and perseverance will get you through. also grades don't matter in grad school unless you want awards? but do awards get you better jobs? not necessarily.
So are you working in a design & build firm now? And if I get it correctly you are earning $40k - $50k per month?
Yes i am currently working for a design and build firm. I get paid $40-50k MORE than my architecture peers. I wish I get paid $40-$50k a month.
Is it difficult to go back to pure architecture firm after spending all those years in the real estate field?
hhmm.. i well technically I am still in architecture?
definitely. i interned where I worked now which is both design and real estate.
Sorry to ask about this unrelated question here but I emailed you a few days ago asking about deferral.
Can I know if you needa provide any proof of your family issue which made you unable to attend the program that year?
Are there other GSAPP students successfully defer by reasons other than medical issue?
Does GSAPP usually allow deferral?
no, i didn't provide any proof, they didn't ask me for one since it's kind of rude/disrespectful to ask for my situation (in my opinion at least) maybe they changed the policy or just saying that to discourage people from trying ? I dont know any other GSAPP students that got a deferral. I BELIEVE that GSAPP will allow deferrals under the right circumstances. Like I said, if you do intend to go but need to save up, I suggest maybe paying for the initial deposit (its $700 or so) just so they know you're committed but then tell them you can't attend and see what happens. worse case scenario is see if you can get your deposit back.
Hi. I would like to ask if MArch students can do individual thesis in the final semester? I have read about the MArch curriculum only found out they have core design studio and advanced design studio. Thanks.
I have never heard or seen anyone done an individual thesis before. Like a GSD thesis? there's no such thing. However, some professors in your last studio do want you to approach the studio topic in a very thesis way.
How much extra did u pay for the tuition fee of the MSRED program?
Are you an international student? Just wondering if you have any scholarship/ financial aids offered by the school? I will get a F1 visa to study in the States so I am not eligible to the university’s financial aids.
How much in general do M.Arch graduates earn per month after graduation?
Which firms are most likely to hire GSAPP M.Arch graduates?
you just pay an additional two semesters worth. No, I am not an international student. I did not receive any need-base scholarships. In terms of graduate salaries - I suggest google the GSAPP survey that some alumni's did awhile back. I haven't asked any of my peers, but I can safely assume no one makes anything higher than $60K a year. If you're making $60K a year out of grad school I would say you're pretty lucky. Anything around the $40-$50K a year is a safe assumption. In terms of firms - from big to small - you name it, SOM, KPF, etc. I think we have a pretty solid network here, it's just that YOU have to initiate the networking. The M.ARCH program sucks at helping students out in terms of career, but they're working on it. It's not like the MS.RED program where they setup job fairs, networking events, etc. to help students find jobs.
When shd the interested M.Arch students apply for MSRED? By the end of sem1?
yes, that is correct
How many students choose the dual program each year?
I would say around 5-6? Some of them will probably just drop the M.arch program and just do the MS.RED program.
Did you live on campus or off-campus? What are their dorms like (if yes)? I read on the website that it's very difficult to try and secure on campus accommodation. What do you recommend is the best way to find housing? and which areas are relatively close/affordable/ have other gsapp students.
Thanks!
I lived near campus in their graduate housing. The graduate housing can vary in terms of layout/cleanliness/style, but most of the housing I visited were fairly well kept, safe, and spacious. For the price it's pretty worth it in terms of size and convenience. But there are options housing options that are cheaper, but you just have to look for it. There's a webpage that is Columbia owned where you can look up other housing options or find people to live with. I don't remember the link off the top of my head at the moment. Should you look for other housing then definitely start there. I have to say anything below Martin Luther King Blvd is pretty safe, but I have seen students live pass that and east of morningside ave. Columbia is expanding north of Martin Luther King Blvd with their new campus expansion and it's only a matter of time that area gets gentrified, if not already.
Thanks for your response! the course I got accepted to is one year course and starts in the summer - do you know if they offer summer accommodation only/ or summer-fall-spring continuous?
For the NYC/Paris program? I believe they do..
Do you like real estate job? do you feel like that you can be an architect in the future again? or you stay in the real estate? Are you an international student? Does the real estate company welcome international students?
of course i like my real estate job. if i didnt i wouldnt have taken it. and just beacuse its a real estate job doesn't automatically make the job crappy. If a job INTERESTS YOU, then go for it. that's where I am now right now. And yes i feel like i can be an architect in the future again because I also work with architects. I plan to stay in both architecture AND real estate in my future. And no, i am not an international student. and yes, they will hire anybody as long as you're qualified.
In what course and or level of study do they teach future Harvard grads to be condescending pricks?
studio 1
Do you know anything about the MSUP program at Columbia and where the graduates go to? I am having a hard time deciding between Columbia and UPenn.
At UPenn, I am thinking of getting the MCP with a concentration on urban design and a certificate in real estate design and development. My background is in architecture, and I am an international student. I am looking to get the maximum value out of my graduate education.
At Columbia, I am thinking of the urban analytics and international development tracks. I ofc have no idea how that can translate into real world work.
Would appreciate your honest opinion.
unfortunately i don't know anything about the urban planning program or where students go. they tend to keep it to themselves (or we (architects) tend to ignore them.). What exactly are you trying to do? Like what is your end goal here? if you're trying to do real estate at the end then my suggestion is not go to UPENN. I don't know the certificate program too well, but I can probably say that a MSRED degree will be greater than just a certificate. I can't imagine you can learn a lot in a certificate curriculum if you have no background in real estate whatsoever. The MSRED program is for beginners; everybody starts during the summer and by the end of it everyone will be on the same page in terms of excel skills, real estate basics, and so forth.
Well, it's interesting that you don't know about the program. I talked one of the students at their MSUP program and they themselves don't seem aware where the Phd students or anyone else goes to for that.
Well, my end goal is to gain knowledge of how real estate works because I feel like it has a great influence on the development of cities( also a greater say). Furthermore, I am interested in the financing and funding aspects of various projects.
I would have considered the MSRED at Columbia, but I am trying to take the shortest and most efficient route here. And also as an international student, it's more expensive.
The core courses for the certificate at Penn are Progressive Development, Real Estate Investments, Analysis, & Finance, and Real Estate Development. Then I could pick 2 more courses from Design & Development, Project Management, Property Development and Real Estate Law. It is jointly conferred by PennDesign and Wharton. Also, I could take my MCP program with the concentration public-private development. But I don't consider myself to be that 'businessy', or rather it is a side that I am yet to explore.
So I am really torn between an amazing education at Columbia where I will get to explore and yet another amazing education at UPenn, but more practical and businessy.
Also, I would love to hear more about the dark world of real estate, ie if you don't mind! Or maybe you could point me to a blog post or article that you have written which would help.
Thank you!
it's not that dark when you're making a lot of money
Hi,
I understand that you have a pessimistic view about the MsAAD program. My understanding was that majority of people who enroll in this program are willing to have careers in research/academia and use the program to test out/develop their particular agendas/make connections in pursuit of a perhaps more theoretical career. Would you care to expand on your opinions? Would you really say that this is a program kept intact by the school to "keep the business running"? My view as an outsider was that it's a highly regarded program despite a relatively higher acceptance rate.
Thank you,
The majority of the people I know who graduated from MsAAD program are in Arch firms rather than teaching. The program doesn't really cater to academic pursuits; it's just another 3 semesters of studios, history courses, and electives IMO (look at the courses and certainly it just looks like another year worth of studios). Certainly coming back to school you can redeem some qualities that you didn't have during your undergraduate endeavors; as you mentioned, you can certainly find connections from a professor that you like, have a shot at being a TA for an M.arch studio, or pursue an individual research with a professor. I think my general opinion about the MS.AAD is that it is not a necessary degree you need to pursue to obtain what you want. You want to teach studios? You can also just work and gain a lot of experience that will be highly valuable on your resume. Hopefully I answered your question.
Hello,
Thank you for this, all the information is really useful!!
Did you apply to both the M.Arch and Masters of Real Estate and Development programs concurrently, or start off as an M.Arch then apply to the MRED program?
How hard is it to get accepted into the MRED program, if you lack experience (0-3 yrs)? *Whilst I do lack several years of experience, my experience includes co founding an engineering consultancy (How helpful will this be?)
How many students does Columbia's MRED program take in a year?
How much of a factor is GPA, versus non-degree post graduate courses (e.g. professional certificates), experience, rec. letters, GRE scores...etc. in the application/acceptance process (basically what are they looking for)?
I'm an International student with an American B. Arch degree, with a passion for development. What backgrounds d students come from, and would you say it would be a tough transition from an Architectural background to the MRED program at Columbia? Do you recommend any other similar good programs? (and what do you think of Pratt's Real Estate practice, or Urban Place-Making program?)
Sorry for the late reply! I thought had died due to a lot of trolls on here. read below for answers! Did you apply to both the M.Arch and Masters of Real Estate and Development programs concurrently, or start off as an M.Arch then apply to the MRED program? How hard is it to get accepted into the MRED program, if you lack experience (0-3 yrs)? *Whilst I do lack several years of experience, my experience includes co founding an engineering consultancy (How helpful will this be?) How many students does Columbia's MRED program take in a year? How much of a factor is GPA, versus non-degree post graduate courses (e.g. professional certificates), experience, rec. letters, GRE scores...etc. in the application/acceptance process (basically what are they looking for)? I'm an International student with an American B. Arch degree, with a passion for development. What backgrounds d students come from, and would you say it would be a tough transition from an Architectural background to the MRED program at Columbia? Do you recommend any other similar good programs? (and what do you think of Pratt's Real Estate practice, or Urban Place-Making program?)
Hello,
Thank you for your offer to help ...
I am an architect and would like to pursue the MS in Urban design and the MS RED programme in Columbia. It is not a designated dual degree . I cannot afford a three year tuition and i think the above two can be completed in 2 years . pl advise how do i go about applying for this. Do i apply for MSAUD and then later apply for MSRED ?
I am not too sure but best to ask the administrators! but yes, i believe if you can get in the MSAUD program, you can apply to the MSRED after the fall semester.
Have a friend who is doing exactly just that, might be able to connect you guys if interested.
Hi there,
Just wondering whom you may have used for your letters of rec after your fall semester of the M.Arch? I have no previous background in real estate and am thinking of applying to the MS.RED after fall, do you know what the general rule of thumb may be?
All my best
i asked my architecture professors at GSAPP to give me letters of rec
Well... unsolicited comment, but... why the fuck would anyone study architecture to become a real estate agent?
You study architecture to do architecture I would think.
You can be a real estate agent/broker if you want, it's good money on the side, but shouldn't be your main job. But already answered below, you study real estate IN CONJUNCTION with architecture because you get to see and understand both sides of the table (financial vs. creative). This can enable you to become a developer/builder (design and build). If you still don't understand this then look up jonathan segal. Also you shouldn't have a naive thinking that, "if you study architecture YOU SHOULD DO ARCHITECTURE ONLY"
“real estate agent” oh buddy…
An ms red is for becoming a developer not an agent. A developer does more of what most people think architects do, as in actually get buildings built. So you thinks wrong.
Developer, agent, whatever, fuck all to do with architecture.
I don't think you understand how any of this works.
I would think it is stating the obvious.
Hey batman,
I am planning to apply to Columbia MSRED this year. But I am worried about my 3.2 GPA and GMAT scores. What is average gpa/GMAT for admission like? Do they put much weight on GMAT? Also what do students in Columbia MSRED think about NYU MSRE?
I don't know the average gpa/gmat score; they dont post that publicly.
NYU is a well regarded program, but i think Columbia is stronger given it's an "IVY" school
Thanks!
Two more questions for you. How competitive is the admission? This is a dumb questions but do you think it is even worth the application fee to apply with 3.2 gpa and 650 gmat?
nope! that's terrible!
I don't know, id give it a try. It doesn't hurt to try. If it was me, id still pay for the application just to know id gave it a shot. you really dont know until you tried.
One more question haha. I appreciate your answers. Is development field the most prevalent field after school or is it a balanced mix of dev. and RE finance? Thank you!!!
its a mix. there's 100+ students that get accepted every year. Not all of them are interested in development. Some want to be in private equity, some go into asset management, some go into project management, some got into underwriting, etc. It's a huge mix due to the array of courses that set you up on the right path.
Hello,
Thank you for all of this info and for ignoring the trolls. I am wondering what you think about skipping the M.Arch program and just going for the MS.RED. My undergrad degree is in fine arts, but I have been working on and off at architecture firms since matriculation. Ideally, I design, but I am also very interested in development.
How much of the M.Arch degree applies to your profitable and enjoyable work as a developer?
Could you have skipped the M.Arch part?
Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you again.
i can't tell if youre serious since i sense a little bit of sarcasm in there. regardless ill answer your question because im a nice person. i could have skipped the M.arch to save money, and just finish the MS.RED in one year. I have seen several students do that within my time at GSAPP. they do it because they dont want to accrue more loans or just want to be in the work force already. But i didn't want to quit because I still want to be a licensed architect and i still like/want to design buildings. I think the M.arch helps a lot - it makes people think i know how to design even though i never had more than 5+ years of experience in a architecture field! but also the knowledge from working with design applications IS SUCH A GREAT ASSET! people are like, OMGAH YOURE A DESIGNER!
No sarcasm whatsoever! Thank you for the response. For the exact reasons you stated above, I am having a tough time deciding whether or not to go through with the 3.5-year dual degree, or just do the MS.RED. I guess I can apply to both and see if I even get in before having this debate. :D
hi,
How many years of work experiences did you have before you got into MSRED?
i didnt have any prior real estate experience. just architecture internships.
what was your gre score?
i dont remember, but it wasn't great.
hey batman!!
Thank you for your interesting insights on the M.ARCH and MS.RED dual degree. I have been admitted to UMICH for the M.ARCH 2 year path and considering the real estate certificate which I will complete in the same time as my M.ARCH. As my goal is to have my design and build firm somewhere down the line!
Do you see the certificate in real estate as an asset/not so when compared to pursuing the degree in real estate? how does it differ if I applied for a job with a developer?
I see that I can save a lot of time and money by having a certificate than pursue a degree in real estate. Your insights are valuable! Hope to hear soon!
i think one of the advantages going into a degree route in MSRED is the networking. GSAPP does a good job of providing a lot of job postings, much more so than the architecture department. it depends on what you are taking in the certificate course, but finance and learning excel is a high focus.
Hi Batman,
I'm starting Columbia's March program in the fall. I was wondering if you had prior experience working in real estate before getting that first job after your Masters. Did you have previous internships in the field? how and when did you transition? what was your first position and in what area?
i did not have any prior experience. i did intern for an architecture + development firm in NY while i was at GSAPP.
What did you study for undergrad? What are real estate courses like? Is it mostly economics finance with a little less law and policies and a few math?
I studied architecture as well. the courses are many - core classes focus on finance and law. then are are elective which can range from private equity, distressed debt, and lots more.
Sorry for the late reply. been busy and forgot about the architecture world. as an update, i do not regret going into MSRED at all. congrats to those who applied and got in. you wont regret it.
Hi batman, I wonder how much can a MRSRED student earns after graduate? Is 40~50K per year? Gosh, tuition of this amazing Uni is sooo expensive. Could you remember how approximate costs have you spent for this 3 yrs course? I am an international students, maybe it will be more higher, so I'm afraid that I have to spend half of my life to win the cost back.
Have a lovely day!
depending on experience your starting salary can be $80-$90k. i dont remember the total cost of my tuition, maybe $120k?
Hi batman, are recommendation letters important? Do you think that they will review an application without three letters of recommendation as required. I'm struggling to get three. Thank you.
need 3, then get 3.
hello Batman,
I am currently an M.ARCH + certificate in real estate development student at University of Michigan. I saw you interned at an architecture + development firm before this. I would love to have a conversation with you hopefully and also would like to know the company you worked for.
email - nikshithreddy500@gmail.com
have a lovely evening
the company i worked for is no longer in business. not because it was a failing business, but because the founder retired
Hello batman!
What does your job description entail after doing MSRED?
what do you work on, on a daily basis?
i work on redlining floorplans, research, site tours, showroom tours. no pro-forma/finance stuff.
Would you say your pay and work hours are better than that of an architect ?
Hello, I ran into this thread regarding the MSRED program at Columbia GSAPP. I am about to make a decision to attend as an international student.
I am very interested in this helping with a design-build firm I have back in Mexico, but would like to know if I can get into the industry for a while in NYC to pay back some of the tuition and learn at the center of it all... How likely do you think it is for someone like me to land a job after doing my CPT/OPT there? Did you have any colleagues in this situation who might share their experiences?
Best regards and thank you in advance
Hi Batman,
I've also just been admitted, forgot how big this thread was. I was curious if you knew about how the MSRED compared to the Graduate Certificate of Real Estate Development at Berkeley and Penn (each would be taken concurrently with an M.Arch I).
Thanks for the Q&A @batman, really appreciate the insights and thoughtful answers.
Just wondering what kind of roles/verticals (development, investment, lending, etc.) do MSRED grads usually end up in? Seems like relatively few place into REIB or PE directly, and those who did had finance background prior to program entry.
And also given current macro print, how do you think about your own career trajectory? Are you looking to stay where you are long-term?
What was your undergrad GPA when you applied? I'm a junior in undergrad and mine's at slightly higher than 3.8 and I don't know if that is enough. Thanks!
is that like GCSE's or baccalaureate?