I recently took a seminar on NBC 2010. My NBC shows that restaurants are classified in group A-2, Assembly occupancy (A-3.1.2.1.(1).). However, the host said that the restaurants are classified as group E, Mercantile occupancy when there are 40 or less people; and if the people are more than 40, it will be classified as A-2.
I tried searching many times through my NBC however, I could not find the Article/sentence/clause which would state about restaurant being in Group E.
Does anyone know where this information is referred to in NBC 2010?
Lots of thanks.
gruen
Sep 27, 16 8:28 pm
I'm not in Canada. But your LOCAL code will be the guide. Here (USA) "E" is "educational", "M" is "mercantile". Mercantile would not be a restaurant. Restaurant is always an assembly occupancy here.
Of course, local code always governs. Perhaps your local code defines small restaurants differently than large ones.
I'm dealing with an assisted living facility here. An ALF is an I-1 occupancy, however our local code states that an ALF is an R-2 occupancy, overriding the base code.
If you can't find it in the code, sit down with your local code official and discuss. If this is for a class, ask the instructor to point out the code reference.
Non Sequitur
Sep 27, 16 8:36 pm
Gruen, the nbc is local code for about half of Canada and is the basis for our licensing exams.
bowling_ball
Sep 27, 16 10:00 pm
I've never seen anything in the NBC that dictates a change of occupancy based on the number of occupants. Probably a misunderstanding.
aim1
Sep 27, 16 10:37 pm
Thanks all of you for the reply.
I have never seen this either. But I am concerned as I have ExAC coming up and the host of the seminar particularly pointed out this requirement about restaurant and also repeated herself. But all I can find in NBC is that Restaurants are Assembly (I cannot find any reference to Restaurants being in Mercantile) occupancy. I think I will try to contact her soon.
Thanks everyone.
Non Sequitur
Sep 28, 16 1:10 pm
Aim1, although a little late to the party, I took a quick glance at my NBC2010 and I cannot find anything that would clearly place a low occupancy restaurant in a mercantile category. If you do get clarification, please let us know.
aim1
Sep 28, 16 2:58 pm
Hello Non Sequitur.
Thanks for trying. I will be updating the threads as soon I as I receive the answers or any new information.
But it may take around 3 weeks to get answers because the seminar that I have attended on NBC 2010 was four days ago. So, we, all the attendees, will be receiving the feedback forms in a week and we will be asking questions through it when we submit it to them. The host will then compile these questions from all the attendees and will answer us back in around 2 weeks after she receives the questions list. I am really hoping to receive the answers before the October end. Otherwise, I think I will safely assume that restaurants are Group A for the exam purposes.
Non Sequitur
Sep 28, 16 3:18 pm
It's a safe assumption. I have in the past had restaurants with split ocupancies because they had a retail/market component without demising wall... but this is prior to OBC2006 so my memory is a little gray here.
The NBC portion of the ExAC is pretty much 120 mini treasure hunts. I would not worry about something that may be too obscure. Your time is better spend reading the Functional Statements and Objectifs in volume 1.
aim1
Sep 28, 16 3:44 pm
Alright. I think you have a good point. I might not have too much time in the exam to solve some very well-hidden secret in NBC. May be it might be better to let go than spend time required for other simpler questions which can actually be solved. I still have a lot more than half of the syllabus to study (which I have not reviewed even for one time) so I will try to ignore the minor questions for now. Later. :)
Thanks for trying everyone.
Non Sequitur
Sep 28, 16 4:22 pm
That is a much better use of your time. The NBC portion of the test was by far the one that took me the longest to complete. Many don't even have the time to answer all the questions in the 3hr test limit... also, and I cannot stress this enough, do not skip over the FS & O of volume 1. You don't want to waste 20 minutes on these 1 minute answers come test time.
Good luck.
proto
Sep 28, 16 4:35 pm
we have some leeway to use group B for occupancies smaller than 750sf for spaces that would otherwise be A-2 in OR
maybe there's a similar accommodation in the NBC
bowling_ball
Sep 28, 16 8:12 pm
proto, I don't think so. And I've done some very small cafes and restaurants.
Learn the functional statements and objectives as mentioned above.
proto
Sep 29, 16 4:29 pm
bowling_ball, I will have to check it at some point, but I sat with a City of Portland plans examiner last week who suggested it for our project. I didn't bring it up. The plans examiner went on to say that we could connect rooms at that size to make larger seating areas as long as the opening between rooms was 49% or less of the wall area of the dividing wall; this was purportedly a City policy allowing that type of linkage. I have not fact checked it myself because we don't have a tenant yet for the building, but you can bet we'll be using that possibility if it exists. I take it at face value for the moment.
Non Sequitur
Sep 29, 16 5:02 pm
Last I checked, Oregon does not need to comply with the Canadian building code. The Op's question arises from a test question for the licensing exams... which, even if available, would never ask questions with answers only possible in certain cities/zoning.
I've done spatial separations for small retail and food/beverage establishments and always used the A2 label. Still... I'm willing to admit defeat if the OP gets clarification.
proto
Sep 30, 16 12:21 pm
(NS, you'll note in my first post, I only suggested there might be a parallel text in the NBC)
Non Sequitur
Sep 30, 16 12:35 pm
^Well aware. Just took the opp to inject a little info on the exam's intent.
Non Sequitur
Oct 5, 16 1:04 pm
Aim1, so, I'm digging through my OBC for an unrelated separation issue and found 3.1.2.6 (1)Restaurants. Apparently, in Ontario, a restaurant can be classified as mercantile if it's occupancy is less than 30 people.
poop876
Oct 5, 16 2:07 pm
IBC chapter 303.1. Exceptions, you can classify assembly as B us based on occupancy and area.
bowling_ball
Oct 5, 16 11:57 pm
Thanks poop876, but we don't use IBC up here in Canuckistan.
That's interesting about OBC, I'm not in Ontario anymore and we don't have that exception where I live now.
Bench
Oct 6, 16 4:01 am
"Canuckistan"
omigodithoughtiwastheonlyonewhosaidthat
Non Sequitur
Oct 6, 16 5:11 am
Brilliant.
poop876
Oct 6, 16 7:07 am
I never used your codes, but I just it would somehow be similar in some cases.
aim1
Oct 19, 16 1:51 am
Hello everyone,
Thank you all of for trying to help. I have now received an update (from the person who mentioned about restaurants being in Grp. E) stating that "all restaurants, according to NBC, are A2 occupancy (no matter the # of occupants)." May be she might have got confused with some other building code.
But thanks all.
Best.
anti-hero
Oct 26, 22 11:02 pm
OMG I looked through the entire NBC and didn't find anything. But it is the fact for the OBC, except it is 30 ppl as someone mentioned it. It is in the section for Plumbing Facilities, which is way more detailed than the NBC. On a separate note, look at various sets of drawings and try to identify what's wrong with them or what are the major items that you need to consider [do this for various building types and you will do just fine on the exam].
Non Sequitur
Oct 27, 22 7:53 am
The test was 6 years ago. Pretty sure OP passed it by now.
Non Sequitur
Oct 19, 16 6:37 am
That's a relief. I can sleep now.
Thanks for the update and good luck on the exams next month.
Hello,
I recently took a seminar on NBC 2010. My NBC shows that restaurants are classified in group A-2, Assembly occupancy (A-3.1.2.1.(1).). However, the host said that the restaurants are classified as group E, Mercantile occupancy when there are 40 or less people; and if the people are more than 40, it will be classified as A-2.
I tried searching many times through my NBC however, I could not find the Article/sentence/clause which would state about restaurant being in Group E.
Does anyone know where this information is referred to in NBC 2010?
Lots of thanks.
I'm not in Canada. But your LOCAL code will be the guide. Here (USA) "E" is "educational", "M" is "mercantile". Mercantile would not be a restaurant. Restaurant is always an assembly occupancy here.
Of course, local code always governs. Perhaps your local code defines small restaurants differently than large ones.
I'm dealing with an assisted living facility here. An ALF is an I-1 occupancy, however our local code states that an ALF is an R-2 occupancy, overriding the base code.
If you can't find it in the code, sit down with your local code official and discuss. If this is for a class, ask the instructor to point out the code reference.
Gruen, the nbc is local code for about half of Canada and is the basis for our licensing exams.
I've never seen anything in the NBC that dictates a change of occupancy based on the number of occupants. Probably a misunderstanding.
Thanks all of you for the reply.
I have never seen this either. But I am concerned as I have ExAC coming up and the host of the seminar particularly pointed out this requirement about restaurant and also repeated herself. But all I can find in NBC is that Restaurants are Assembly (I cannot find any reference to Restaurants being in Mercantile) occupancy. I think I will try to contact her soon.
Thanks everyone.
Aim1, although a little late to the party, I took a quick glance at my NBC2010 and I cannot find anything that would clearly place a low occupancy restaurant in a mercantile category. If you do get clarification, please let us know.
Hello Non Sequitur.
Thanks for trying. I will be updating the threads as soon I as I receive the answers or any new information.
But it may take around 3 weeks to get answers because the seminar that I have attended on NBC 2010 was four days ago. So, we, all the attendees, will be receiving the feedback forms in a week and we will be asking questions through it when we submit it to them. The host will then compile these questions from all the attendees and will answer us back in around 2 weeks after she receives the questions list. I am really hoping to receive the answers before the October end. Otherwise, I think I will safely assume that restaurants are Group A for the exam purposes.
It's a safe assumption. I have in the past had restaurants with split ocupancies because they had a retail/market component without demising wall... but this is prior to OBC2006 so my memory is a little gray here.
The NBC portion of the ExAC is pretty much 120 mini treasure hunts. I would not worry about something that may be too obscure. Your time is better spend reading the Functional Statements and Objectifs in volume 1.
Alright. I think you have a good point. I might not have too much time in the exam to solve some very well-hidden secret in NBC. May be it might be better to let go than spend time required for other simpler questions which can actually be solved. I still have a lot more than half of the syllabus to study (which I have not reviewed even for one time) so I will try to ignore the minor questions for now. Later. :)
Thanks for trying everyone.
That is a much better use of your time. The NBC portion of the test was by far the one that took me the longest to complete. Many don't even have the time to answer all the questions in the 3hr test limit... also, and I cannot stress this enough, do not skip over the FS & O of volume 1. You don't want to waste 20 minutes on these 1 minute answers come test time.
Good luck.
we have some leeway to use group B for occupancies smaller than 750sf for spaces that would otherwise be A-2 in OR
maybe there's a similar accommodation in the NBC
proto, I don't think so. And I've done some very small cafes and restaurants. Learn the functional statements and objectives as mentioned above.
bowling_ball, I will have to check it at some point, but I sat with a City of Portland plans examiner last week who suggested it for our project. I didn't bring it up. The plans examiner went on to say that we could connect rooms at that size to make larger seating areas as long as the opening between rooms was 49% or less of the wall area of the dividing wall; this was purportedly a City policy allowing that type of linkage. I have not fact checked it myself because we don't have a tenant yet for the building, but you can bet we'll be using that possibility if it exists. I take it at face value for the moment.
Last I checked, Oregon does not need to comply with the Canadian building code. The Op's question arises from a test question for the licensing exams... which, even if available, would never ask questions with answers only possible in certain cities/zoning.
I've done spatial separations for small retail and food/beverage establishments and always used the A2 label. Still... I'm willing to admit defeat if the OP gets clarification.
(NS, you'll note in my first post, I only suggested there might be a parallel text in the NBC)
^Well aware. Just took the opp to inject a little info on the exam's intent.
Aim1, so, I'm digging through my OBC for an unrelated separation issue and found 3.1.2.6 (1)Restaurants. Apparently, in Ontario, a restaurant can be classified as mercantile if it's occupancy is less than 30 people.
IBC chapter 303.1. Exceptions, you can classify assembly as B us based on occupancy and area.
Thanks poop876, but we don't use IBC up here in Canuckistan.
That's interesting about OBC, I'm not in Ontario anymore and we don't have that exception where I live now.
"Canuckistan"
omigodithoughtiwastheonlyonewhosaidthat
Brilliant.
I never used your codes, but I just it would somehow be similar in some cases.
Hello everyone,
Thank you all of for trying to help. I have now received an update (from the person who mentioned about restaurants being in Grp. E) stating that "all restaurants, according to NBC, are A2 occupancy (no matter the # of occupants)." May be she might have got confused with some other building code.
But thanks all.
Best.
OMG I looked through the entire NBC and didn't find anything. But it is the fact for the OBC, except it is 30 ppl as someone mentioned it. It is in the section for Plumbing Facilities, which is way more detailed than the NBC. On a separate note, look at various sets of drawings and try to identify what's wrong with them or what are the major items that you need to consider [do this for various building types and you will do just fine on the exam].
The test was 6 years ago. Pretty sure OP passed it by now.
That's a relief. I can sleep now.
Thanks for the update and good luck on the exams next month.
Hahaa.. yeah.
Thanks a lot.