What firm size would be better for an internship? A bigger one or rather small one? Do small ones take internships? If yes, would there be any chance of future employment or turning such internship into a part time job?
Thanks!
Non Sequitur
Sep 22, 16 7:32 am
Whatever you choose, make sure the internship is paid. Small firms with long term projects can probably offer more varied exposure.
Quentin
Sep 22, 16 9:21 am
My first internship was at a firm with 4 people. Smaller firms can usually expose you to more but it all just depends.
A three digit monthly stipend or 24K in NYC to work for BIG is no better.
SneakyPete
Nov 30, 16 12:12 pm
I blame the whiny millennials for demanding to get paid for the work they do. They need to pay their dues so the rest of us can feel superior about our oldness.
3tk
Nov 30, 16 12:22 pm
A lot depends by firm - smaller firms most likely could give you best exposure and longer term mentoring, but it's no guarantee. Some large firms have good mentoring structure.
Always get paid something unless you're getting academic credit, in which case they should be clear about what they'll be teaching you (as the onus is on them to teach and less for you to produce).
Internships are a way for firms to evaluate talent that is out there - perform well, and there's a good chance they'll take you on (if they have the project load).
Everyday Intern
Nov 30, 16 12:43 pm
"Internships are a way for firms to evaluate talent that is out there [...]"
I disagree.
Interviews, portfolios, resumes, references, serving as guest critics, visiting professorships, at-will employment, etc. are the way(s) for firms to evaluate talent that is out there.
"Unpaid internships are not eligible to earn experience hours with the exception of the approved Community-Based Design Center/Collaborative as defined in experience setting O."
natematt
Nov 30, 16 12:48 pm
Only time an unpaid internship is alright is if you are literally worthless to the firm. Which means working on something not for the firm with their guidance. We do something like that for high school students. Our real interns get more than double minimum wage.
natematt
Nov 30, 16 1:00 pm
^To clarify, I mean summer interns. The full time people make reasonable money.
Everyday Intern
Nov 30, 16 1:18 pm
"Only time an unpaid internship is alright is if you are literally worthless to the firm."
While correct, I feel this overly simplifies the issue. The test of whether or not an unpaid internship is allowable under the law is not solely determined by the worth, or lack of worth, the intern brings to the firm. I know of plenty of senior associates and principles in my firm that are "worthless" to the firm (or at least it appears that way). I don't think they'd be willing to "work" for free.
The US Dept. of Labor has pretty clear guidelines as to what can constitute a legal, unpaid internship. Most of the internships that are talked about for aspiring architects would not qualify.
natematt
Nov 30, 16 1:44 pm
Very true.
archietechie
Nov 30, 16 2:49 pm
Wow EI, who then, are the rain makers in your firm?
(Curious)
Everyday Intern
Nov 30, 16 5:55 pm
I was mostly being facetious, but I also wasn't talking about the rain makers ... you have to bring projects in otherwise there's no work.
In reality I'm talking more the middle management types that have meetings to plan what needs to be discussed in the next meeting. Or those that call for an hour long lunch meeting with catering just to discuss something that could have been handled in a 3 paragraph email.
Everyday Intern
Nov 30, 16 5:58 pm
Bench
Nov 30, 16 7:16 pm
To flip the question archietrchie, who aren't the rain makers in your firm? Are they all by extension unpaid?
Josh Mings
Nov 30, 16 7:56 pm
Y'all keep saying rainmaker and all I can think of is this guy -
archietechie
Dec 5, 16 1:28 pm
Bench - Sorry I missed your reply earlier.
By rainmakers, I assumed EL was referring to people (more often than not principals/partners) who brought in work to the firm.
To answer your question then, drafters/designers aren't in this case.
Non Sequitur
Dec 5, 16 2:16 pm
Marineti, there is no reason ever to not be paid. Countries and people who think having unpaid internships deserve ridicule.
IamGray
Dec 5, 16 2:47 pm
Non Sequitur: What about countries where those who attend university are expected to shell out thousands of dollars, taking out loans equivalent to mortgages, just so they can finance their education? Should those countries and people also deserve ridicule?
From my perspective racking up a crippling amount of student debt in your 20's is a hell of a lot more stupid that working 4 months for low or meagre pay.
Non Sequitur
Dec 5, 16 3:20 pm
^yes, people who think $200k for a bachelor's degree is an investment deserve ridicule but that's not the same thing as unpaid/stipend internships.
JLC-1
Dec 5, 16 3:34 pm
Marineti, vaffancul.
SneakyPete
Dec 5, 16 4:11 pm
IamGray bringing the straw man HARD.
curtkram
Dec 5, 16 8:24 pm
are we just listing all things that deserve ridicule now?
Non Sequitur
Dec 5, 16 8:37 pm
Curt, i thought That Was the point of half of this forum.
Non Sequitur
Dec 9, 16 6:15 am
Markets where it is expected to work for free are not real markets and, more importantly, people who choose to prostitute themselves for no money are not team members I'd like to have.
What firm size would be better for an internship? A bigger one or rather small one? Do small ones take internships? If yes, would there be any chance of future employment or turning such internship into a part time job?
Thanks!
Whatever you choose, make sure the internship is paid. Small firms with long term projects can probably offer more varied exposure.
My first internship was at a firm with 4 people. Smaller firms can usually expose you to more but it all just depends.
^idiot.
Never work for free.
Marineti, Can we talk?
You are an idiot Marineti!
A three digit monthly stipend or 24K in NYC to work for BIG is no better.
I blame the whiny millennials for demanding to get paid for the work they do. They need to pay their dues so the rest of us can feel superior about our oldness.
A lot depends by firm - smaller firms most likely could give you best exposure and longer term mentoring, but it's no guarantee. Some large firms have good mentoring structure.
Always get paid something unless you're getting academic credit, in which case they should be clear about what they'll be teaching you (as the onus is on them to teach and less for you to produce).
Internships are a way for firms to evaluate talent that is out there - perform well, and there's a good chance they'll take you on (if they have the project load).
"Internships are a way for firms to evaluate talent that is out there [...]"
I disagree.
Interviews, portfolios, resumes, references, serving as guest critics, visiting professorships, at-will employment, etc. are the way(s) for firms to evaluate talent that is out there.
Internships are the way that NCARB requires aspiring architects to gain experience to fulfill the requirements of the AXP to become licensed. NCARB also requires that aspiring architects are paid for them.
Only time an unpaid internship is alright is if you are literally worthless to the firm. Which means working on something not for the firm with their guidance. We do something like that for high school students. Our real interns get more than double minimum wage.
^To clarify, I mean summer interns. The full time people make reasonable money.
"Only time an unpaid internship is alright is if you are literally worthless to the firm."
While correct, I feel this overly simplifies the issue. The test of whether or not an unpaid internship is allowable under the law is not solely determined by the worth, or lack of worth, the intern brings to the firm. I know of plenty of senior associates and principles in my firm that are "worthless" to the firm (or at least it appears that way). I don't think they'd be willing to "work" for free.
The US Dept. of Labor has pretty clear guidelines as to what can constitute a legal, unpaid internship. Most of the internships that are talked about for aspiring architects would not qualify.
Very true.
Wow EI, who then, are the rain makers in your firm?
(Curious)
I was mostly being facetious, but I also wasn't talking about the rain makers ... you have to bring projects in otherwise there's no work.
In reality I'm talking more the middle management types that have meetings to plan what needs to be discussed in the next meeting. Or those that call for an hour long lunch meeting with catering just to discuss something that could have been handled in a 3 paragraph email.
To flip the question archietrchie, who aren't the rain makers in your firm? Are they all by extension unpaid?
Y'all keep saying rainmaker and all I can think of is this guy -
Bench - Sorry I missed your reply earlier.
By rainmakers, I assumed EL was referring to people (more often than not principals/partners) who brought in work to the firm.
To answer your question then, drafters/designers aren't in this case.
Marineti, there is no reason ever to not be paid. Countries and people who think having unpaid internships deserve ridicule.
Non Sequitur: What about countries where those who attend university are expected to shell out thousands of dollars, taking out loans equivalent to mortgages, just so they can finance their education? Should those countries and people also deserve ridicule?
From my perspective racking up a crippling amount of student debt in your 20's is a hell of a lot more stupid that working 4 months for low or meagre pay.
^yes, people who think $200k for a bachelor's degree is an investment deserve ridicule but that's not the same thing as unpaid/stipend internships.
Marineti, vaffancul.
IamGray bringing the straw man HARD.
are we just listing all things that deserve ridicule now?
Curt, i thought That Was the point of half of this forum.
Markets where it is expected to work for free are not real markets and, more importantly, people who choose to prostitute themselves for no money are not team members I'd like to have.