I met a design principal at SOM last year and expressed my desire to work with them. They were pleased to hear of my interest; I had given them physical copies of my portfolio, resume, and cover letter, and they were engaged with it enough to pass it on to their office's HR director who's in charge of recruitment. The HR director contacted me requesting digital copies and suggested I filled out electronic applications to also be filed in the database.
So I applied online for Architectural Designer (1-3 years experience), Architectural Assistant (0-1 year experience), and Summer Intern, after giving an informal application to the principal.
- Strike 1: NO INTERVIEWS - Strike 2: NO INTERVIEWS - Strike 3: NO INTERVIEWS -
I have 2 years of professional experience in multi-family residential work, both in large scale high-rise towers and mid-rise developments.
My academic work is passionate, sophisticated, and looks great in terms of graphic representation and conveying ideas. My professional work is of lower design quality than SOM's projects but is still considered above-average, reasonably respected by SOM, and is supported by rock-solid references from my co-workers/boss who are well connected to SOM too.
I have a 4-year Bachelor of Science degree in Architecture. This is actually the main reason I think I'm not even being considered, as I think it's literally an initial screening factor that is disqualifying me, especially online. That theory seems ridiculous because you would assume SOM would want top talent to work for them no matter what their educational background is, but really, I can't figure out why I'm not getting interviews. I have all of the pieces put together to have been able to start working there months ago.
Is the only logical explanation that my portfolio still isn't good enough? Or rather that there is at least one more qualified applicant than myself winning over my chances at an interview?
Please offer any and all of your insight toward this wild oligarchy, especially if you worked for SOM in the past...
archanonymous
May 3, 16 6:47 pm
what office? San Fran, NY, or Chi?
BR.TN
May 3, 16 6:54 pm
archanonymous: Chi
archanonymous
May 3, 16 7:22 pm
Those guys are in their own world. Unless you can get someone on the inside to advocate for hiring you, its a total crap shoot. A place like that literally spends 30-60 seconds looking at portfolios.
curtkram
May 3, 16 7:36 pm
you said no interview, not that they rejected you?
it could take them months to decide whether they even want to hire someone, not to mention who.
babs
May 3, 16 8:06 pm
wow ... some sense of entitlement !
zonker
May 3, 16 8:06 pm
Unless you can get someone on the inside to advocate for hiring you, its a total crap shoot. A place like that literally spends 30-60 seconds looking at portfolios.
That's how I got in - a hiring manager listed his phone# - this was back in '07 when they were looking for Revit people and I was able to put a building together with it - even though I had a so-so portfolio - The BIM manager got me - dint have to go through the" associates resume review" and I was a Level C assistant arch. for 1.5 years then got laid off when the "wall caved in" in 11/08 - HR
Carrera
May 3, 16 8:21 pm
Dealing with HR departments is like being a bouncing ball in a roulette wheel looking to hit red…also a good place to dispatch interns you meet at cocktail party’s. Good things never come from just waiting, best to go back to square one for the answer and if you get no answer that means “no”….then move on.
OK to bug, but never beg.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 3, 16 9:11 pm
4 year degree, looking to work at SOM. One thought, and I'm a little bit slow, but have you considered the idea that - well 2 ideas, as I said, I'm slow - one, they think you'll go to graduate school, because you're not going to be licensed with a four year, or b, that they think you're not driven enough to get a BArch, and therefore not worth the investment?
midlander
May 3, 16 10:19 pm
^esp since if I recall you've openly talked about that here (anonymously, I know) for a while.
It probably didn't help to apply for all job openings down to summer intern. At some point you need to show enough self-awareness to recognize what you are worth. If you have 2 years' experience and tell me you want a summer internship, or full-time junior position, or whatever - I would start to doubt your qualifications and commitment. It comes off that you are more interested in the name than the work.
In this case though, Carrera is right. When they asked you to apply online they were just fobbing you off. It's the polite way of asking you to put your resume in the recycling bin on the way out. Find a better connection, try again. Show them you are better than other 2-year level employees, and not just someone desperate for whatever positions are open.
awaiting_deletion
May 3, 16 10:20 pm
its SOM, you didn't do the nasty 5 year or 3 year arch studio kick your ass thing, right there not good enough for SOM.
You need thick skin, super fucking good nerves, and massive skills to be average there - average. You'll be just average for like 20 years, paid well, but average.
I know a person who ended up in the hospital from working there - nervous breakdown, 15 year experienced architect. I know another guy, by far the best Architect in my grad school class, personal qualities that 99% of most candidates don't have (every studio prof. wanted him as a project manager - not designer).
most the guys I've met who have done stints there were bald and mumbled a lot, like PTSD or something.
It's the equivalent of being on the Yankees, a world series just every 4 years is barely acceptable. Worked in a corporate firm that often attracted SOM talent because it was laid back.
(this is NYC knowledge, can't imagine culture much different in Chi town)
so you're right, your degree says a lot. (one of my former students was in HR, that's how she got into design, everybody wanted to be her best friend. I said no way.)
accesskb
May 3, 16 11:16 pm
how many suicides at SOM?
Leandro Llorente
May 4, 16 5:20 am
the world is too crowded. its not that you are not good enough. the opportunity does not come instantly.
archanonymous
May 4, 16 10:17 am
access - define suicide. Does slowly drinking and working yourself to death count?
They do great work over there, but its hardly the same profession as most other firms in Chicago doing local or at least domestic work.
David Cole, AIA
May 4, 16 10:27 am
Nobody respects you as an architect in Chicago until you've been fired by SOM at least once.
poop876
May 4, 16 10:57 am
Oh wow that sucks man! So let me get this straight, you applied and you never heard back from them? That's crazy! Don't they know that once you apply, they should hire you?
I'll tell you how this shit works. Just because you met somebody that works somewhere, had a brief discussion, does not mean ANYTHING. Unless you are a real good friend and you need employment, nobody goes to HR and puts you on top of the list.
I just love the entitlement feeling from you post!
thisisnotmyname
May 4, 16 11:36 am
Are you currently living in Chicago? If not, that may be the problem. When there's a lot of resumes coming in, I've seen the out of towners go to the bottom of the pile. Especially for the the junior positions.
archanonymous
May 4, 16 11:57 am
your entitled attitude would fit in perfectly over there. I'm actually surprised they haven't gotten in touch.
likeit
May 4, 16 11:59 am
David, was hired in 2008 (professor rec) to SOM Chi, just as a DDC ( digital design coordinator, really!!) fired end of year, had to become PT ( mom and all), knew the end was inevitable:). Struggled hard to find a job in the wonderfully architecturally barren landscape of the NW suburbs. Working now, today in a 'state of suspended disbelief' and 'verge of tears' as I see the sum total of a lot of effort over the years culminating in tracing site plans of Google Maps....grateful to have a job though..addressed you coz ur comment about getting respect in Chi only after being fired by SOM gave me a vestige of self-respect LOL..
zonker
May 4, 16 4:30 pm
I was at SOM SF - lots of hours there - better than HOK across the street though - even more hours and no career paths
BR.TN
May 5, 16 1:15 pm
"you applied and you never heard back from them? [...] I'll tell you how this shit works. Just because you met somebody that works somewhere, had a brief discussion, does not mean ANYTHING."
I have anecdotal examples to prove you're blatantly wrong. However I don't have a job at SOM so you simply look good by coincidence. Enjoy that. Secondly, I did hear back...I heard back in the form of automated emails saying I wasn't selected to interview for this position, which is why I made this post.
...
Entitlement???
I'm not asking for a mid-level associate position fresh out of school. I'm asking for an entry-level design position as a young but well-developed candidate at an admittedly competitive firm.
I graduated at the top of my class two years ago and got a job out-of-state with my first interview, where I worked for a firm with over 200 designers and many people I directly worked with had no idea I was an intern among the rest. When I met that design principal at SOM, they later contacted me by my school's old .edu email address, meaning they looked me up on LinkedIn and found my semi-outdated contact info there, then sent me a personal email to thank me for my cover letter and applications materials. They weren't hiring at that time so the principal put me in touch with their HR director for future reference.
I'm capable and qualified to work there and I showed persistent interest in my pursuit. Interviews are pretty common if you're this engaged with an employment opportunity. I interviewed at two of their competitors with the same process. I can't even believe you think my sense of "entitlement" is illegitimate.
Schoon
May 5, 16 1:42 pm
BR.TN,
If you're holding back evidence then we won't be able to answer your question. Actually, I'm uncertain as to what your question is... Are you looking for an answer or a place to vent?
Maybe they're not currently hiring? Maybe they found someone better? Or maybe someone better qualified had a conversation with a more influential design principal. No one knows what's going on behind the SOM curtain besides the HR guy/gal at SOM.
Fivescore
May 5, 16 2:19 pm
" Interviews are pretty common if you're this engaged with an employment opportunity."
That depends on what they're actively seeking right now, and on how many applicants they have at the time. It's not clear that there is a specific employment opportunity. The steps that got you to this point are nearly identical, word for word, to the steps that eventually got me an offer there some years ago (which I turned down) - except that I didn't keep pestering them, I just sent my stuff once and followed up once. The things you've heard so far are their polite, fairly scripted responses, and there's nothing to read one way or the other in it yet as to whether they're particularly interested. They receive hundreds of well qualified and interesting peoples' resumes and don't interview all of them. When I applied it was at least 8 months later when I was contacted to ask if I was still interested, and eventually that led to an interview several weeks later, and a 2nd interview several weeks after that, and then an offer materialized a week or so after that - so unless you're applying for a summer position or something you shouldn't expect that anything is going to happen quickly - or at all.
postal
May 5, 16 2:25 pm
likeit, NW Burbs represent! It is indeed a wasteland. All that road rage on the Kennedy, and I have nothing left for the consultants. Eh well, we make the best of it.
To the original poster, you may need to try someone a little lower on the food chain who would go to bat for you because they would interact with you on a daily basis. Or maybe the principal just got busy and didn't follow up/care enough. You could try and reach out again to that same design principal and retell the story, and thank him for the reference, but it looks like it didn't work out. If he cares enough, he might walk over to the HR guy and say wtf? or he may say, yeah, turns out we don't need anybody, or something... ok, just trying to add two cents since i posted to to make this all about the NW burbs!
You really need to get hired before your stuff gets forwarded to black hole of HR.
BR.TN
May 5, 16 2:26 pm
Shoon: Venting and trying to find some explanation. I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning.
Threesleeve: Extremely informative of you to share your experience, thanks!
/endthread
zonker
May 5, 16 5:06 pm
it really comes down to impressing the associates during the "associates resume review" that is held at noon on Tuesday at least it was at Skidmore -SF - Like I said, I was sneaked in by the BIM manager at the time - HR got after him because we circumvented procedure - e.g., I didn't go through the official vetting process -
Josh Mings
May 5, 16 6:04 pm
Keep in mind that a lot of firms are looking for 5 years or more experience right now. That simply may be the case at SOM as well. It doesn't help a firm to have a bunch of 0-2 yr experience people with no job captains.
citizen
May 5, 16 6:11 pm
" /endthread "
If I wished for a super power, it just might be the ability to actually end a thread with a few typed characters. That, or x-ray vision.
thisisnotmyname
May 5, 16 6:34 pm
My reading of the evidence you have presented is that politely declined you, probably because of your lack of a professional degree. I read the design director's actions as being more motivated by courtesy and respect for your interest rather than a desire to hire you. A lot of places do not consider candidates without a B.Arch or M.Arch degree.
Carrera
May 5, 16 6:42 pm
Here’s my HR story:
Years ago during one of the recession’s things dried up big time in Ohio, where I started. Desperate with a family & debt I decided I’d relocate, had to. Resumes went everywhere…got a hit in Rochester NY at a big firm, HR interviewed me over the phone and asked me to come for an in person interview…had to go.
Family in tow (May as well see Niagara Falls) drove 7 hours & 500 miles + hotel…met Miss HR in the AM, had a nice welcoming talk. Took me in to meet Mr. VP, did the usual intro and asked “how can I help?” His first words were “sorry we’re not looking for anybody right now”. I persisted & explained…silence. Tried again, a smile & got a “thanks for coming”.
Moral – HR people are morons, stay away from them.
archiwutm8
May 5, 16 6:47 pm
It seems that a lot of people seem to forget that the HR isn't there for you, they're your enemies and you have to remember that. tread lightly and remain at a distance or become their best friends either one don't slide in the middle.
Spoons
May 6, 16 8:49 am
Why don't you apply to KPF since you think they are so vastly better than SOM?
null pointer
May 6, 16 10:03 am
KPF is full of morons. The NYC office is run by inept children with fancy titles. The skill level of a principal in KPF is like that of an Architect I at SOM.
AlmostArch
Aug 7, 17 8:14 pm
I've never even had an interview at SOM and I'm trying to understand what I can to improve the possibility.
I graduated this spring from a good architecture grad school and just received my 2nd SOM rejection email. I worked for a few years before going to school and the projects are decent published smaller projects. From work, I quite enjoy detailing/making wall sections. I know Revit and dabbled in Dynamo. At the career fair, someone from SOM said that they remembered my portfolio from submitting it online and thought that it looked great. I've worked at a SOM competitor during a summer and have had interviews at other comparable firms, so I'm just wondering what I can do - I hope that I don't come across as entitled - I would greatly appreciate any advice!
BLu-arch
Aug 7, 17 11:25 pm
I completely understand where the frustration comes from, but allow me to give my 2c in the hopes that it will help you gain a better perspective of how things go at SOM (a corporate behemoth that receives thousands of applications for the same position)
I interned at SOM NY a few years ago (less than 5) and what got me through the door were (in order of increasing importance IMO):
- both undergrad and grad school recognizable and ivy league names respectively (and I know that all other interns hired at the same time as me only had such credentials);
- previous experience (even if only internships) with "starchitects" who either have won Pritzkers or simply made history - AND impressive work to show for those, including other internships with recognizable corporate offices;
- impeccably edited and presented work in portfolio (selected to show only the very best of my work and even improved said work only for portfolio - so what I had presented at final reviews was further improved and added to) and beyond placing that work in my portfolio, the portfolio itself was a work of art, every spread produced would be a composite piece meant to put the drawings and work in the best light.
By the time I graduated from my Master's and applied for a junior position, the PM who gave me raving reviews during my internship had left the office. Even if he wrote me recommendation letters, and despite the fact that I was singled out during my internship for a program in DC sponsored by SOM, I still received an automated "no" in the email. At that point, I contacted the HR people I had been in touch with directly during my internship (due to said DC program), and managed to get an interview with a principal there. Things seemed to go very well and was told that my work and design sensibilities aligned with their own - still a "no".
To this day, I think it was because of my non-US-citizen status.
Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that the competition for a spot in these offices is beyond what BR.TN - and many others, unfortunately - expect. There are too many students coming out from big-name professional degrees, who also happen to know others working at SOM, for there to be enough time and consideration given to the rest.
Don't beat yourself about it, from what I've been seeing, too much attention is paid nowadays to 'brand', and not being able to get an interview at SOM doesn't mean you don't deserve it. Believe in yourself and keep trying without investing too many nerves in the process, a little bit of luck can never hurt either.
BLu-arch
Aug 7, 17 11:27 pm
PS: Did not enjoy being a cog in the machine there, but applied for a junior position as a back-up and because of the salary prospects.
archietechie
Aug 8, 17 2:50 am
Sure am curious about your/their
folio standards.
randomised
Aug 8, 17 5:39 am
It's always easier to blame citizenship and misinterpret an interviewers' politeness and compliments during an interview, it's a self-protection mechanism to not have to look in the mirror. All those corporate firms have plenty of non-citizens on their payroll. I've also never heard anything besides praise and compliments for my portfolios and provided work samples in A-L-L the interviews I had, in literally all of them. Yet I didn't get hired after every interview. So I would love to see that magical portfolio of yours or is it on display at MoMA ;-) Maybe it's time I should consider laser treatment for that giant swastika tattooed on my forehead, who knows, maybe that's what was sending the wrong message during my talks...
AlmostArch
Aug 8, 17 9:59 am
That's a crazy story, thanks for the insight! A peer now works for another office and he got the job through a professor, he does good work though!
I recently redid my portfolio and my trusted critics (that aren't afraid to tell me if it's garbage) have told me that they like it but now I'm thinking that I should work on projects to go in my portfolio that are geared towards firms like a mixed use building in Revit with a parametric paneled or louvered facade (grasshopper MIP or dynamo) with some sweet photorealistic renders.
sameolddoctor
Aug 8, 17 12:51 am
Oh come on and fuck SOM. Have some self respect and stop applying there.
Oh well, I was the same way until I actually met one of the principals in the NY office. Complete douchebag who kept ranting on how all younger architects care only about money and nothing else. Nevermind that this is a firm that has their offices on Wall Street.
Another important lesson I learnt is, if you dont get a job after trying so hard, its probably not meant for you. And dont beat yourself up on it, just be thankful you did not end up as a burnt out, suppressed person.
geezertect
Aug 8, 17 9:13 am
Complete douchebag who kept ranting on how all younger architects care only about money and nothing else
Translation: "What the matter with these kids today? Six years of Ivy education and think they should be able to live on what we pay them. Ridiculous."
AlmostArch
Aug 8, 17 9:55 am
I decided not to go to an Ivy with how much debt and time that would have cost me. Now, I'm really glad that I went the affordable route!
geezertect
Aug 8, 17 9:11 am
Getting a job, any job in any industry, is always a crap shoot at best unless Daddy happens to be the CEO or Grandpa founded the company. Many variables, the biggest of which is dumb luck. Add to that the fact that you were applying to an elite firm in a badly overcrowded profession.
Dangermouse
Aug 8, 17 9:29 am
Most success is attributable to dumb luck, and timing.
AlmostArch
Aug 8, 17 9:50 am
Tell me about it! Right before graduation, I was 99% sure I'd end up at a firm that I was in constant contact with (& worked @) and at the last moment they decided that they'd hired enough lower-level people throughout last year and weren't going to hire anyone this year. After receiving that email, I wasn't worried because a firm that I really liked had told me that they were very interested in hiring me. Right after, I received word from the principal that the firm head didn't want to take anyone on this year but to keep in contact. The interview season had started out so promising with a great array of interviews from firms that I think do great work but I've had bad luck ever since!
Nats
Aug 9, 17 7:19 am
If I had a quid for every time someone never got back to me after looking at my CV. SOM are a large firm with a reputation they will likely only take very good candidates and you obviously weren't good enough ... move on and apply elsewhere, seriously! But the fact you think your own work is sophisticated and looks great says a lot to me and I haven't even met you.
shellarchitect
Aug 9, 17 11:24 am
Most ridiculous complaint ever.
I would love to see this passionate and sophisticated portfolio
randomised
Aug 10, 17 2:42 am
The Museum of Modern Art
10:30 a.m.–5:30 p.m.
Open seven days a week
Open until 9:00 p.m. Thursday–
Saturday, through September 2
Member Early Hours begin at 9:30 a.m.
00010011
Aug 15, 17 8:53 am
it's pretty simple... go to the GSD, get a job at SOM.
Hi all,
I met a design principal at SOM last year and expressed my desire to work with them. They were pleased to hear of my interest; I had given them physical copies of my portfolio, resume, and cover letter, and they were engaged with it enough to pass it on to their office's HR director who's in charge of recruitment. The HR director contacted me requesting digital copies and suggested I filled out electronic applications to also be filed in the database.
So I applied online for Architectural Designer (1-3 years experience), Architectural Assistant (0-1 year experience), and Summer Intern, after giving an informal application to the principal.
- Strike 1: NO INTERVIEWS - Strike 2: NO INTERVIEWS - Strike 3: NO INTERVIEWS -
I have 2 years of professional experience in multi-family residential work, both in large scale high-rise towers and mid-rise developments.
My academic work is passionate, sophisticated, and looks great in terms of graphic representation and conveying ideas. My professional work is of lower design quality than SOM's projects but is still considered above-average, reasonably respected by SOM, and is supported by rock-solid references from my co-workers/boss who are well connected to SOM too.
I have a 4-year Bachelor of Science degree in Architecture. This is actually the main reason I think I'm not even being considered, as I think it's literally an initial screening factor that is disqualifying me, especially online. That theory seems ridiculous because you would assume SOM would want top talent to work for them no matter what their educational background is, but really, I can't figure out why I'm not getting interviews. I have all of the pieces put together to have been able to start working there months ago.
Is the only logical explanation that my portfolio still isn't good enough? Or rather that there is at least one more qualified applicant than myself winning over my chances at an interview?
Please offer any and all of your insight toward this wild oligarchy, especially if you worked for SOM in the past...
what office? San Fran, NY, or Chi?
archanonymous: Chi
Those guys are in their own world. Unless you can get someone on the inside to advocate for hiring you, its a total crap shoot. A place like that literally spends 30-60 seconds looking at portfolios.
you said no interview, not that they rejected you?
it could take them months to decide whether they even want to hire someone, not to mention who.
wow ... some sense of entitlement !
Unless you can get someone on the inside to advocate for hiring you, its a total crap shoot. A place like that literally spends 30-60 seconds looking at portfolios.
That's how I got in - a hiring manager listed his phone# - this was back in '07 when they were looking for Revit people and I was able to put a building together with it - even though I had a so-so portfolio - The BIM manager got me - dint have to go through the" associates resume review" and I was a Level C assistant arch. for 1.5 years then got laid off when the "wall caved in" in 11/08 - HR
Dealing with HR departments is like being a bouncing ball in a roulette wheel looking to hit red…also a good place to dispatch interns you meet at cocktail party’s. Good things never come from just waiting, best to go back to square one for the answer and if you get no answer that means “no”….then move on.
OK to bug, but never beg.
4 year degree, looking to work at SOM. One thought, and I'm a little bit slow, but have you considered the idea that - well 2 ideas, as I said, I'm slow - one, they think you'll go to graduate school, because you're not going to be licensed with a four year, or b, that they think you're not driven enough to get a BArch, and therefore not worth the investment?
^esp since if I recall you've openly talked about that here (anonymously, I know) for a while.
It probably didn't help to apply for all job openings down to summer intern. At some point you need to show enough self-awareness to recognize what you are worth. If you have 2 years' experience and tell me you want a summer internship, or full-time junior position, or whatever - I would start to doubt your qualifications and commitment. It comes off that you are more interested in the name than the work.
In this case though, Carrera is right. When they asked you to apply online they were just fobbing you off. It's the polite way of asking you to put your resume in the recycling bin on the way out. Find a better connection, try again. Show them you are better than other 2-year level employees, and not just someone desperate for whatever positions are open.
its SOM, you didn't do the nasty 5 year or 3 year arch studio kick your ass thing, right there not good enough for SOM.
You need thick skin, super fucking good nerves, and massive skills to be average there - average. You'll be just average for like 20 years, paid well, but average.
I know a person who ended up in the hospital from working there - nervous breakdown, 15 year experienced architect. I know another guy, by far the best Architect in my grad school class, personal qualities that 99% of most candidates don't have (every studio prof. wanted him as a project manager - not designer).
most the guys I've met who have done stints there were bald and mumbled a lot, like PTSD or something.
It's the equivalent of being on the Yankees, a world series just every 4 years is barely acceptable. Worked in a corporate firm that often attracted SOM talent because it was laid back.
(this is NYC knowledge, can't imagine culture much different in Chi town)
so you're right, your degree says a lot. (one of my former students was in HR, that's how she got into design, everybody wanted to be her best friend. I said no way.)
how many suicides at SOM?
the world is too crowded. its not that you are not good enough. the opportunity does not come instantly.
access - define suicide. Does slowly drinking and working yourself to death count?
They do great work over there, but its hardly the same profession as most other firms in Chicago doing local or at least domestic work.
Nobody respects you as an architect in Chicago until you've been fired by SOM at least once.
Oh wow that sucks man! So let me get this straight, you applied and you never heard back from them? That's crazy! Don't they know that once you apply, they should hire you?
I'll tell you how this shit works. Just because you met somebody that works somewhere, had a brief discussion, does not mean ANYTHING. Unless you are a real good friend and you need employment, nobody goes to HR and puts you on top of the list.
I just love the entitlement feeling from you post!
Are you currently living in Chicago? If not, that may be the problem. When there's a lot of resumes coming in, I've seen the out of towners go to the bottom of the pile. Especially for the the junior positions.
your entitled attitude would fit in perfectly over there. I'm actually surprised they haven't gotten in touch.
David, was hired in 2008 (professor rec) to SOM Chi, just as a DDC ( digital design coordinator, really!!) fired end of year, had to become PT ( mom and all), knew the end was inevitable:). Struggled hard to find a job in the wonderfully architecturally barren landscape of the NW suburbs. Working now, today in a 'state of suspended disbelief' and 'verge of tears' as I see the sum total of a lot of effort over the years culminating in tracing site plans of Google Maps....grateful to have a job though..addressed you coz ur comment about getting respect in Chi only after being fired by SOM gave me a vestige of self-respect LOL..
I was at SOM SF - lots of hours there - better than HOK across the street though - even more hours and no career paths
"you applied and you never heard back from them? [...] I'll tell you how this shit works. Just because you met somebody that works somewhere, had a brief discussion, does not mean ANYTHING."
I have anecdotal examples to prove you're blatantly wrong. However I don't have a job at SOM so you simply look good by coincidence. Enjoy that. Secondly, I did hear back...I heard back in the form of automated emails saying I wasn't selected to interview for this position, which is why I made this post.
...
Entitlement???
I'm not asking for a mid-level associate position fresh out of school. I'm asking for an entry-level design position as a young but well-developed candidate at an admittedly competitive firm.
I graduated at the top of my class two years ago and got a job out-of-state with my first interview, where I worked for a firm with over 200 designers and many people I directly worked with had no idea I was an intern among the rest. When I met that design principal at SOM, they later contacted me by my school's old .edu email address, meaning they looked me up on LinkedIn and found my semi-outdated contact info there, then sent me a personal email to thank me for my cover letter and applications materials. They weren't hiring at that time so the principal put me in touch with their HR director for future reference.
I'm capable and qualified to work there and I showed persistent interest in my pursuit. Interviews are pretty common if you're this engaged with an employment opportunity. I interviewed at two of their competitors with the same process. I can't even believe you think my sense of "entitlement" is illegitimate.
BR.TN,
If you're holding back evidence then we won't be able to answer your question. Actually, I'm uncertain as to what your question is... Are you looking for an answer or a place to vent?
Maybe they're not currently hiring? Maybe they found someone better? Or maybe someone better qualified had a conversation with a more influential design principal. No one knows what's going on behind the SOM curtain besides the HR guy/gal at SOM.
" Interviews are pretty common if you're this engaged with an employment opportunity."
That depends on what they're actively seeking right now, and on how many applicants they have at the time. It's not clear that there is a specific employment opportunity. The steps that got you to this point are nearly identical, word for word, to the steps that eventually got me an offer there some years ago (which I turned down) - except that I didn't keep pestering them, I just sent my stuff once and followed up once. The things you've heard so far are their polite, fairly scripted responses, and there's nothing to read one way or the other in it yet as to whether they're particularly interested. They receive hundreds of well qualified and interesting peoples' resumes and don't interview all of them. When I applied it was at least 8 months later when I was contacted to ask if I was still interested, and eventually that led to an interview several weeks later, and a 2nd interview several weeks after that, and then an offer materialized a week or so after that - so unless you're applying for a summer position or something you shouldn't expect that anything is going to happen quickly - or at all.
likeit, NW Burbs represent! It is indeed a wasteland. All that road rage on the Kennedy, and I have nothing left for the consultants. Eh well, we make the best of it.
To the original poster, you may need to try someone a little lower on the food chain who would go to bat for you because they would interact with you on a daily basis. Or maybe the principal just got busy and didn't follow up/care enough. You could try and reach out again to that same design principal and retell the story, and thank him for the reference, but it looks like it didn't work out. If he cares enough, he might walk over to the HR guy and say wtf? or he may say, yeah, turns out we don't need anybody, or something... ok, just trying to add two cents since i posted to to make this all about the NW burbs!
You really need to get hired before your stuff gets forwarded to black hole of HR.
Shoon: Venting and trying to find some explanation. I wholeheartedly agree with your reasoning.
Threesleeve: Extremely informative of you to share your experience, thanks!
/endthread
it really comes down to impressing the associates during the "associates resume review" that is held at noon on Tuesday at least it was at Skidmore -SF - Like I said, I was sneaked in by the BIM manager at the time - HR got after him because we circumvented procedure - e.g., I didn't go through the official vetting process -
Keep in mind that a lot of firms are looking for 5 years or more experience right now. That simply may be the case at SOM as well. It doesn't help a firm to have a bunch of 0-2 yr experience people with no job captains.
" /endthread "
If I wished for a super power, it just might be the ability to actually end a thread with a few typed characters. That, or x-ray vision.
My reading of the evidence you have presented is that politely declined you, probably because of your lack of a professional degree. I read the design director's actions as being more motivated by courtesy and respect for your interest rather than a desire to hire you. A lot of places do not consider candidates without a B.Arch or M.Arch degree.
Here’s my HR story:
Years ago during one of the recession’s things dried up big time in Ohio, where I started. Desperate with a family & debt I decided I’d relocate, had to. Resumes went everywhere…got a hit in Rochester NY at a big firm, HR interviewed me over the phone and asked me to come for an in person interview…had to go.
Family in tow (May as well see Niagara Falls) drove 7 hours & 500 miles + hotel…met Miss HR in the AM, had a nice welcoming talk. Took me in to meet Mr. VP, did the usual intro and asked “how can I help?” His first words were “sorry we’re not looking for anybody right now”. I persisted & explained…silence. Tried again, a smile & got a “thanks for coming”.
Moral – HR people are morons, stay away from them.
It seems that a lot of people seem to forget that the HR isn't there for you, they're your enemies and you have to remember that. tread lightly and remain at a distance or become their best friends either one don't slide in the middle.
Why don't you apply to KPF since you think they are so vastly better than SOM?
KPF is full of morons. The NYC office is run by inept children with fancy titles. The skill level of a principal in KPF is like that of an Architect I at SOM.
I've never even had an interview at SOM and I'm trying to understand what I can to improve the possibility.
I graduated this spring from a good architecture grad school and just received my 2nd SOM rejection email. I worked for a few years before going to school and the projects are decent published smaller projects. From work, I quite enjoy detailing/making wall sections. I know Revit and dabbled in Dynamo. At the career fair, someone from SOM said that they remembered my portfolio from submitting it online and thought that it looked great. I've worked at a SOM competitor during a summer and have had interviews at other comparable firms, so I'm just wondering what I can do - I hope that I don't come across as entitled - I would greatly appreciate any advice!
I completely understand where the frustration comes from, but allow me to give my 2c in the hopes that it will help you gain a better perspective of how things go at SOM (a corporate behemoth that receives thousands of applications for the same position)
I interned at SOM NY a few years ago (less than 5) and what got me through the door were (in order of increasing importance IMO):
- both undergrad and grad school recognizable and ivy league names respectively (and I know that all other interns hired at the same time as me only had such credentials);
- previous experience (even if only internships) with "starchitects" who either have won Pritzkers or simply made history - AND impressive work to show for those, including other internships with recognizable corporate offices;
- impeccably edited and presented work in portfolio (selected to show only the very best of my work and even improved said work only for portfolio - so what I had presented at final reviews was further improved and added to) and beyond placing that work in my portfolio, the portfolio itself was a work of art, every spread produced would be a composite piece meant to put the drawings and work in the best light.
By the time I graduated from my Master's and applied for a junior position, the PM who gave me raving reviews during my internship had left the office. Even if he wrote me recommendation letters, and despite the fact that I was singled out during my internship for a program in DC sponsored by SOM, I still received an automated "no" in the email. At that point, I contacted the HR people I had been in touch with directly during my internship (due to said DC program), and managed to get an interview with a principal there. Things seemed to go very well and was told that my work and design sensibilities aligned with their own - still a "no".
To this day, I think it was because of my non-US-citizen status.
Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that the competition for a spot in these offices is beyond what BR.TN - and many others, unfortunately - expect. There are too many students coming out from big-name professional degrees, who also happen to know others working at SOM, for there to be enough time and consideration given to the rest.
Don't beat yourself about it, from what I've been seeing, too much attention is paid nowadays to 'brand', and not being able to get an interview at SOM doesn't mean you don't deserve it. Believe in yourself and keep trying without investing too many nerves in the process, a little bit of luck can never hurt either.
PS: Did not enjoy being a cog in the machine there, but applied for a junior position as a back-up and because of the salary prospects.
Sure am curious about your/their folio standards.
It's always easier to blame citizenship and misinterpret an interviewers' politeness and compliments during an interview, it's a self-protection mechanism to not have to look in the mirror. All those corporate firms have plenty of non-citizens on their payroll. I've also never heard anything besides praise and compliments for my portfolios and provided work samples in A-L-L the interviews I had, in literally all of them. Yet I didn't get hired after every interview. So I would love to see that magical portfolio of yours or is it on display at MoMA ;-) Maybe it's time I should consider laser treatment for that giant swastika tattooed on my forehead, who knows, maybe that's what was sending the wrong message during my talks...
That's a crazy story, thanks for the insight! A peer now works for another office and he got the job through a professor, he does good work though!
I recently redid my portfolio and my trusted critics (that aren't afraid to tell me if it's garbage) have told me that they like it but now I'm thinking that I should work on projects to go in my portfolio that are geared towards firms like a mixed use building in Revit with a parametric paneled or louvered facade (grasshopper MIP or dynamo) with some sweet photorealistic renders.
Oh come on and fuck SOM. Have some self respect and stop applying there.
Oh well, I was the same way until I actually met one of the principals in the NY office. Complete douchebag who kept ranting on how all younger architects care only about money and nothing else. Nevermind that this is a firm that has their offices on Wall Street.
Another important lesson I learnt is, if you dont get a job after trying so hard, its probably not meant for you. And dont beat yourself up on it, just be thankful you did not end up as a burnt out, suppressed person.
Complete douchebag who kept ranting on how all younger architects care only about money and nothing else
Translation: "What the matter with these kids today? Six years of Ivy education and think they should be able to live on what we pay them. Ridiculous."
I decided not to go to an Ivy with how much debt and time that would have cost me. Now, I'm really glad that I went the affordable route!
Getting a job, any job in any industry, is always a crap shoot at best unless Daddy happens to be the CEO or Grandpa founded the company. Many variables, the biggest of which is dumb luck. Add to that the fact that you were applying to an elite firm in a badly overcrowded profession.
Most success is attributable to dumb luck, and timing.
Tell me about it! Right before graduation, I was 99% sure I'd end up at a firm that I was in constant contact with (& worked @) and at the last moment they decided that they'd hired enough lower-level people throughout last year and weren't going to hire anyone this year. After receiving that email, I wasn't worried because a firm that I really liked had told me that they were very interested in hiring me. Right after, I received word from the principal that the firm head didn't want to take anyone on this year but to keep in contact. The interview season had started out so promising with a great array of interviews from firms that I think do great work but I've had bad luck ever since!
If I had a quid for every time someone never got back to me after looking at my CV. SOM are a large firm with a reputation they will likely only take very good candidates and you obviously weren't good enough ... move on and apply elsewhere, seriously! But the fact you think your own work is sophisticated and looks great says a lot to me and I haven't even met you.
Most ridiculous complaint ever.
I would love to see this passionate and sophisticated portfolio
The Museum of Modern Art
10:30 a.m.–5:30 p.m.
Open seven days a week
Open until 9:00 p.m. Thursday– Saturday, through September 2
Member Early Hours begin at 9:30 a.m.
it's pretty simple... go to the GSD, get a job at SOM.