I was recently asked by a builder if the project being bid on was "prevailing wage." the context is that this is a privately owned space for members only.
Few questions:
does prevailing wage refer to union labor?
if so, when are you required to hire builders who are union?
*note: i'm not trying to start a pro/con union labor discussion. the intent is to learn more about how builders are selected.
Thanks.
shellarchitect
Jul 31, 15 12:37 pm
union workers aren't required, although in my area its very difficult to avoid, my understanding is that it requires that the workers be paid the "average rate" for the area.
I believe they're intended to prevent very large gov't construction projects from distorting the overall job market and to protect workers from lower wages as a result of competitive bids.
JeromeS
Jul 31, 15 12:54 pm
Prevailing wage is usually attached to funding, in an effort to level the playing field between union and open shop contractors. Either is acceptable as long as workers are paid the published "prevailing wage".
The only time I'm familiar that Union labor is required is when the job include a PLA or Project Labor Agreement that specifies the same.
Otherwise, Union labor is simply a matter of dollars/cents or political pressure, etc.
Everyday Intern
Jul 31, 15 12:56 pm
Prevailing wage does not specifically refer to union labor.
To be certain of the requirements for your project, check the laws and check the contract documents.
Generally, prevailing wage wouldn't apply to privately-funded projects. The various prevailing wage laws and acts are meant for government-funded projects. However, this would not prevent a private owner from requiring a contractor to pay workers according to prevailing wage charts.
Again, check your local laws and check the contract. Or better yet, tell the contractor to check the contract (which they should be doing anyway) and while they are busy doing that, check the local laws so make sure you didn't screw something up. Even a small portion of public funding on projects can trigger prevailing wage laws depending on the state and the type of construction.
geezertect
Jul 31, 15 1:32 pm
Davis Bacon Act
Brud-G
Jul 31, 15 1:35 pm
^^ Adds 20% to the construction costs (if no Davis Bacon required)
Carrera
Jul 31, 15 10:06 pm
Prevailing wage was the brainchild of unions, if you check the rates against union rates it's the same, nothing "prevailing" about it... the idea worked for a while and it helped unions because the nonunion contractors didn't want to pay the rates, but over time they got used to it and their workers got adjusted to working under 2 rates. But remember that the nonunion workers while being paid the PW are not paying into the union coffers (union withholdings), meaning the nonunion workers are taking more money home than their union counterparts.... guess who doesn't like that idea?
The idea has backfired on the unions and the movement today is to get cities, counties & states to now require that projects be union or require the awarded bidder to work with the union to get project money flowing through the unions.... crazy? Don't laugh, the state of Ohio has passed it, but it's hung up by a Republican governor... for now... they have no chance at the fed level, for now,... and the concept is getting traction in union towns.
Others are correct, PW is only on public work, but it can creep in on private work if there are public loans, tax credits or grants involved.
Know you don't want this to turn into a union rant, but I was in the construction business for the first 25 years of my career, and the synonym for union is mafia, plain and simple.
Peter Normand
Aug 2, 15 12:13 pm
I disagree with the PW being only government work, sometimes you need to use Prevailing Wages as a baseline to prevent a picket or a strike by other trade unions, Even though you are not using a union contractor they may still have union workers who will strike or picket if your pay is undercutting union members. In big cities and strong labor areas you can run into sympathy strikes from teamsters electricians and even civil service folks who work for the city won't come out and do the inspections or permits. So depending on the market is is sometime a good idea to write into the bid document requirements to use prevailing wages so your job site doesn't draw the ire of unions. As things stand right now the labor market is tight and many experienced trades are very hard to find so I would think that prevailing wages would have much less of an impact now as opposed to 4 years ago.
I don't begrudge the pay union trades get as they have a much more volatile boom and bust cycle than we do sometimes going months without work, that is where their union steps in as with pensioners not getting social security some unions take care of unemployment as a service paid for out of their dues. These are hard working folks who have to retire early as the physically demanding work takes a tool on a persons body.
Pro union is not always going to increase your cost as you sometimes luck out and get a capable and experienced crew.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Carrera
Aug 2, 15 3:05 pm
Peter, not sure paying PW keeps the boogeymen away…..did a $12 Million job in a union town and paid prevailing wage, hired contractors that were both union & nonunion and they picketed anyway. They came on the job about once a week hassling the nonunion workers to join the union…we gave them what they wanted, we paid everyone a union wage, but that wasn’t enough, because they weren’t getting anything from the nonunion guys.
williamiholman
Jan 25, 16 6:22 am
In every country there is a minimum wage rates applicable according to the sector they are working upon. In france there is a collective agreement which has specific provision for giving the wages to the workers and it is clearly mentioned in their convention collective commerce de gros.
All,
I was recently asked by a builder if the project being bid on was "prevailing wage." the context is that this is a privately owned space for members only.
Few questions:
does prevailing wage refer to union labor?
if so, when are you required to hire builders who are union?
*note: i'm not trying to start a pro/con union labor discussion. the intent is to learn more about how builders are selected.
Thanks.
union workers aren't required, although in my area its very difficult to avoid, my understanding is that it requires that the workers be paid the "average rate" for the area.
I believe they're intended to prevent very large gov't construction projects from distorting the overall job market and to protect workers from lower wages as a result of competitive bids.
Prevailing wage is usually attached to funding, in an effort to level the playing field between union and open shop contractors. Either is acceptable as long as workers are paid the published "prevailing wage".
The only time I'm familiar that Union labor is required is when the job include a PLA or Project Labor Agreement that specifies the same.
Otherwise, Union labor is simply a matter of dollars/cents or political pressure, etc.
Prevailing wage does not specifically refer to union labor.
To be certain of the requirements for your project, check the laws and check the contract documents.
Generally, prevailing wage wouldn't apply to privately-funded projects. The various prevailing wage laws and acts are meant for government-funded projects. However, this would not prevent a private owner from requiring a contractor to pay workers according to prevailing wage charts.
Again, check your local laws and check the contract. Or better yet, tell the contractor to check the contract (which they should be doing anyway) and while they are busy doing that, check the local laws so make sure you didn't screw something up. Even a small portion of public funding on projects can trigger prevailing wage laws depending on the state and the type of construction.
Davis Bacon Act
^^ Adds 20% to the construction costs (if no Davis Bacon required)
Prevailing wage was the brainchild of unions, if you check the rates against union rates it's the same, nothing "prevailing" about it... the idea worked for a while and it helped unions because the nonunion contractors didn't want to pay the rates, but over time they got used to it and their workers got adjusted to working under 2 rates. But remember that the nonunion workers while being paid the PW are not paying into the union coffers (union withholdings), meaning the nonunion workers are taking more money home than their union counterparts.... guess who doesn't like that idea?
The idea has backfired on the unions and the movement today is to get cities, counties & states to now require that projects be union or require the awarded bidder to work with the union to get project money flowing through the unions.... crazy? Don't laugh, the state of Ohio has passed it, but it's hung up by a Republican governor... for now... they have no chance at the fed level, for now,... and the concept is getting traction in union towns.
Others are correct, PW is only on public work, but it can creep in on private work if there are public loans, tax credits or grants involved.
Know you don't want this to turn into a union rant, but I was in the construction business for the first 25 years of my career, and the synonym for union is mafia, plain and simple.
I disagree with the PW being only government work, sometimes you need to use Prevailing Wages as a baseline to prevent a picket or a strike by other trade unions, Even though you are not using a union contractor they may still have union workers who will strike or picket if your pay is undercutting union members. In big cities and strong labor areas you can run into sympathy strikes from teamsters electricians and even civil service folks who work for the city won't come out and do the inspections or permits. So depending on the market is is sometime a good idea to write into the bid document requirements to use prevailing wages so your job site doesn't draw the ire of unions. As things stand right now the labor market is tight and many experienced trades are very hard to find so I would think that prevailing wages would have much less of an impact now as opposed to 4 years ago.
I don't begrudge the pay union trades get as they have a much more volatile boom and bust cycle than we do sometimes going months without work, that is where their union steps in as with pensioners not getting social security some unions take care of unemployment as a service paid for out of their dues. These are hard working folks who have to retire early as the physically demanding work takes a tool on a persons body.
Pro union is not always going to increase your cost as you sometimes luck out and get a capable and experienced crew.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Peter, not sure paying PW keeps the boogeymen away…..did a $12 Million job in a union town and paid prevailing wage, hired contractors that were both union & nonunion and they picketed anyway. They came on the job about once a week hassling the nonunion workers to join the union…we gave them what they wanted, we paid everyone a union wage, but that wasn’t enough, because they weren’t getting anything from the nonunion guys.
In every country there is a minimum wage rates applicable according to the sector they are working upon. In france there is a collective agreement which has specific provision for giving the wages to the workers and it is clearly mentioned in their convention collective commerce de gros.