I've been at a new job for about a month and a half now. When I interviewed it was explained as a position for someone ready to transition from a designer up to Project Architect. I wont get into the background details because they aren't relevant, however let's just say via a series of events I have seemed to have the bad luck of appearing to make sophomoric mistakes, but as the result of poor direction from others. Now I am paranoid and gun-shy about doing anything even asking questions, for the fear of looking inept.
I went to lunch this past Friday with my P.M. who was part of my interview and has been excited to have me. I asked him point blank and to bullshit me how I was doing. He expressed some disappointment that I was not living fully up-to expectations and that part of it was being thrown into a project with a tight schedule and is already two months in C.A. At the same time he was really hoping I would be taking the ball and running with more things by now, i.e.: when reworking and RCP to locate the new linear lights I should have noticed the two already over a counter looked off in their perpendicularity to one another. So when he asked why they were like that and I responded "That's how they were already drawn in the plan." He'd wished I had noticed and proposed a fix.
Is this one of those milestones in an architects career where you just need to grab your boots and jump in and don't be afraid to show -off what you now? Do I just need to get over my timidness? And if this ends up being something I do struggle with does it mean that maybe I just don't have what it takes to move up the rung to the Project Architect level?
chigurh
May 25, 15 10:16 am
Need more info...how many years have you been working?
Thing is, nobody is perfect in this field and mistakes get made at all levels all the time. The key is being able to mitigate those mistakes and know where they are critical (double and triple check those areas).
At a certain point, maybe you are not there yet, you will just be confident in your skills and the transition to "project architect" will just happen naturally. Essentially, it is just when you can run the show, consultants, CDs, coordination, agencies, CA...There are a lot of areas you need to be fluent in. Are you there yet?
PencilPusher
May 25, 15 10:38 am
I've been working in architecture just a touch over 5 years. In my opinion no. And I was blunt and honest about that in the interview. They reassured me it wasn't going to be a problem with the mentoring that would be made available to me.
Schools over and it is time to get the job done. Just take the attitude of your employer he / she does not want excuses he / she just needs the job done so they can make money. Their clients have the same attitude. When you pay for something you don't want problems either you want what you pay for. Do not put your employer in the position of explaining mistakes. Do not be blinded by the drawings. You missed an opportunity with the light location to show off your problem solving and forward thinking capabilities. There will be more chances.
As an employer I always like it when an employee can problem solve and avoid issues. For the most part if you keep everything square, plumb, level and inline you will avoid 90% of construction mistakes.
Believe it or not you are in a great position. HTFU turn this project around and show off your talents. Be aggressive and take control if that is your position to do.
And ask questions it shows that your brain is working but don't ask one at a time. Have two or three or what ever at a time. Challenge your PM to do his / her job. But remember that you all are a team and the only thing that matters is to make the company look good so that you can get more work.
Miles Jaffe
May 25, 15 1:00 pm
make sophomoric mistakes, but as the result of poor direction from others
You should think about this a bit, it really doesn't paint a very flattering picture of you.
A word of advice: when given a set of drawings, study them in detail until you understand exactly what they represent. Start with the assumption that they are full of errors - they probably are - and try to find them all. Think like a builder and make a list. Then think like a designer and make another list.
ArchNyen
May 25, 15 2:04 pm
o WTF? Miles Jaffe is actually giving good advice!!!??? the world is gonna freeze over!! i miss the old Miles Jaffe... it must be the holiday spirit
Miles Jaffe
May 25, 15 5:33 pm
^ Sorry, a moment of weakness.
It's passed.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 25, 15 6:52 pm
Architecture, despite the opinions of dead Objectivist authors, is a TEAM sport. I agree with Jaffe, and while that may make his nipples hard, he's right. However, he left out one thing I go into every new project, that is underway, and I am joining; ask the PM a shit ton of questions, tell them in no uncertain terms, that you can either labor through the mess they are asking you fix, or they can break the project down, into the areas needing immediate attention, and the individual[s] tasked with making their precious unicorn a fully realized, and biddable set of working documents, short of that, you are not a mind reader, as you have to juggle a multitude of horseshit in those first few months of a new job.
Learning as you go is one thing, but couple that with various office policies, documentation policies, writing policies, and just who's panties get twisted in a wad, when you decide what you did in Firm XLA - as in X-tra Large Asshole - doesn't work here, is enough to make you want to find a samurai sword, and run it through the CEO.
Good luck!
go do it
May 25, 15 11:57 pm
Miles,
This is the best thing in this thread " Think like a builder and make a list. Then think like a designer and make another list."
Carrera
May 26, 15 12:38 am
Funny, when I was an employee I made mistakes, when I was an owner I never made mistakes.
The thing is, architecture is simply decision making, and as a PM you'll make about 100 a week. There is no chance they will be all be correct..... it's not a matter of learning how to be correct all the time, it's a matter of learning how to think fast to correct the mistakes when you make them...I attribute 75% of my success to being a good escape artist.
null pointer
May 26, 15 10:43 am
I'm with Carrera here.
My work for other people is littered with stupid mistakes.
Accountability is meh when the worst thing that can happen is you get a slap in the back of the hand.
My personal work is maddeningly pristine - I can count my mistakes (in issued drawings) in one hand, over a period of 3 years.
Carrera
May 26, 15 11:16 am
Null, guess the point is, what is a mistake, really. If you draw a 1 foot overhang and your PM redlines it to a 2 foot that isn't a "mistake"..... can't beat yourself up on that stuff... in fact unless the bridge collapses nothing is a "mistake", they're all just "course corrections".
archigeniss
May 26, 15 11:22 am
I've been there too... I get directions from a third person and when I deliver there is something wrong. What I do is, clarify why it's wrong and I make sure to ask for direct directions from someone fully involved in project. People tend to get others bad directions or give bad directions and blame it on others. Also, it is normal to make mistakes you should know and they should know it. Make sure to double check your work and NEVER STOP ASKING QUESTIONS... it means you are reasoning and learning.
curtkram
May 26, 15 12:00 pm
drawing a section reference that says 2/a401 that points to a section on 3/a401 is a mistake. or, drawing the 1' overhand on the a401 sheet without updating the 2' overhang on the detail sheet.
when you're suddenly thrown into a project right at the end, and have no knowledge of the project, and haven't spent the time thinking about the project or attending meetings related to the development of the project, etc., you're kind of being set up to fail. i don't know why an office would want to create an environment like that, but i suppose it's just the easier way to do it.
zonker
May 26, 15 12:09 pm
curtkram
I have been in the above situation more often than not and I am expected to perform as if I have been on the project from the start -I see it as a challenge and learn as much as possible about the project to catch up to those who have been on it a year or more than I have. If I miss something, I get fired. Its a 0 sum game - Today I am in the same situation - one mistake and I won't be here tomorrow - be filling out EDD forms.
Learn the project as if you are the designer of it - internalize it
chigurh
May 26, 15 4:43 pm
xenakis, who you working for that you get fired so often?
bowling_ball
May 26, 15 6:07 pm
Xenakis, if you're getting fired after making one mistake, you're not really getting fired for that mistake, it's just a convenient reason for your employer to let you go without having to tell you the truth.
chigurh
May 26, 15 6:41 pm
bowling...totally agree, this guy talks about getting fired all the time:
I am a temp - and temps get the boot - I can't make any mistakes - the direct people are given a lot more leeway and make all kinds of mistakes - they blame it on the temp guy - and "go pack your tools"
awaiting_deletion
May 26, 15 8:22 pm
xenakis i hope you make minimum 6 digits, otherwise you are wasting your time.......to the OP, my second real job in profession i thought i had been hired as a draftsmen but found out i was a PM (barely 1 year experience) i asked questions out the ass,annoyed my employer, but if it didnt make i didnt waste time doing it - i asked questions........now i am learning a much worse scenario - i often assume my clients know what they are doing - bad idea. i know the customer is always right but the patient is not - trying to find the balance.
I've been at a new job for about a month and a half now. When I interviewed it was explained as a position for someone ready to transition from a designer up to Project Architect. I wont get into the background details because they aren't relevant, however let's just say via a series of events I have seemed to have the bad luck of appearing to make sophomoric mistakes, but as the result of poor direction from others. Now I am paranoid and gun-shy about doing anything even asking questions, for the fear of looking inept.
I went to lunch this past Friday with my P.M. who was part of my interview and has been excited to have me. I asked him point blank and to bullshit me how I was doing. He expressed some disappointment that I was not living fully up-to expectations and that part of it was being thrown into a project with a tight schedule and is already two months in C.A. At the same time he was really hoping I would be taking the ball and running with more things by now, i.e.: when reworking and RCP to locate the new linear lights I should have noticed the two already over a counter looked off in their perpendicularity to one another. So when he asked why they were like that and I responded "That's how they were already drawn in the plan." He'd wished I had noticed and proposed a fix.
Is this one of those milestones in an architects career where you just need to grab your boots and jump in and don't be afraid to show -off what you now? Do I just need to get over my timidness? And if this ends up being something I do struggle with does it mean that maybe I just don't have what it takes to move up the rung to the Project Architect level?
Need more info...how many years have you been working?
Thing is, nobody is perfect in this field and mistakes get made at all levels all the time. The key is being able to mitigate those mistakes and know where they are critical (double and triple check those areas).
At a certain point, maybe you are not there yet, you will just be confident in your skills and the transition to "project architect" will just happen naturally. Essentially, it is just when you can run the show, consultants, CDs, coordination, agencies, CA...There are a lot of areas you need to be fluent in. Are you there yet?
I've been working in architecture just a touch over 5 years. In my opinion no. And I was blunt and honest about that in the interview. They reassured me it wasn't going to be a problem with the mentoring that would be made available to me.
Harden the Fuck Up
Schools over and it is time to get the job done. Just take the attitude of your employer he / she does not want excuses he / she just needs the job done so they can make money. Their clients have the same attitude. When you pay for something you don't want problems either you want what you pay for. Do not put your employer in the position of explaining mistakes. Do not be blinded by the drawings. You missed an opportunity with the light location to show off your problem solving and forward thinking capabilities. There will be more chances.
As an employer I always like it when an employee can problem solve and avoid issues. For the most part if you keep everything square, plumb, level and inline you will avoid 90% of construction mistakes.
Believe it or not you are in a great position. HTFU turn this project around and show off your talents. Be aggressive and take control if that is your position to do.
And ask questions it shows that your brain is working but don't ask one at a time. Have two or three or what ever at a time. Challenge your PM to do his / her job. But remember that you all are a team and the only thing that matters is to make the company look good so that you can get more work.
make sophomoric mistakes, but as the result of poor direction from others
You should think about this a bit, it really doesn't paint a very flattering picture of you.
A word of advice: when given a set of drawings, study them in detail until you understand exactly what they represent. Start with the assumption that they are full of errors - they probably are - and try to find them all. Think like a builder and make a list. Then think like a designer and make another list.
o WTF? Miles Jaffe is actually giving good advice!!!??? the world is gonna freeze over!! i miss the old Miles Jaffe... it must be the holiday spirit
^ Sorry, a moment of weakness.
It's passed.
Architecture, despite the opinions of dead Objectivist authors, is a TEAM sport. I agree with Jaffe, and while that may make his nipples hard, he's right. However, he left out one thing I go into every new project, that is underway, and I am joining; ask the PM a shit ton of questions, tell them in no uncertain terms, that you can either labor through the mess they are asking you fix, or they can break the project down, into the areas needing immediate attention, and the individual[s] tasked with making their precious unicorn a fully realized, and biddable set of working documents, short of that, you are not a mind reader, as you have to juggle a multitude of horseshit in those first few months of a new job.
Learning as you go is one thing, but couple that with various office policies, documentation policies, writing policies, and just who's panties get twisted in a wad, when you decide what you did in Firm XLA - as in X-tra Large Asshole - doesn't work here, is enough to make you want to find a samurai sword, and run it through the CEO.
Good luck!
Miles,
This is the best thing in this thread " Think like a builder and make a list. Then think like a designer and make another list."
Funny, when I was an employee I made mistakes, when I was an owner I never made mistakes.
The thing is, architecture is simply decision making, and as a PM you'll make about 100 a week. There is no chance they will be all be correct..... it's not a matter of learning how to be correct all the time, it's a matter of learning how to think fast to correct the mistakes when you make them...I attribute 75% of my success to being a good escape artist.
I'm with Carrera here.
My work for other people is littered with stupid mistakes.
Accountability is meh when the worst thing that can happen is you get a slap in the back of the hand.
My personal work is maddeningly pristine - I can count my mistakes (in issued drawings) in one hand, over a period of 3 years.
Null, guess the point is, what is a mistake, really. If you draw a 1 foot overhang and your PM redlines it to a 2 foot that isn't a "mistake"..... can't beat yourself up on that stuff... in fact unless the bridge collapses nothing is a "mistake", they're all just "course corrections".
I've been there too... I get directions from a third person and when I deliver there is something wrong. What I do is, clarify why it's wrong and I make sure to ask for direct directions from someone fully involved in project. People tend to get others bad directions or give bad directions and blame it on others. Also, it is normal to make mistakes you should know and they should know it. Make sure to double check your work and NEVER STOP ASKING QUESTIONS... it means you are reasoning and learning.
drawing a section reference that says 2/a401 that points to a section on 3/a401 is a mistake. or, drawing the 1' overhand on the a401 sheet without updating the 2' overhang on the detail sheet.
when you're suddenly thrown into a project right at the end, and have no knowledge of the project, and haven't spent the time thinking about the project or attending meetings related to the development of the project, etc., you're kind of being set up to fail. i don't know why an office would want to create an environment like that, but i suppose it's just the easier way to do it.
curtkram
I have been in the above situation more often than not and I am expected to perform as if I have been on the project from the start -I see it as a challenge and learn as much as possible about the project to catch up to those who have been on it a year or more than I have. If I miss something, I get fired. Its a 0 sum game - Today I am in the same situation - one mistake and I won't be here tomorrow - be filling out EDD forms.
Learn the project as if you are the designer of it - internalize it
xenakis, who you working for that you get fired so often?
Xenakis, if you're getting fired after making one mistake, you're not really getting fired for that mistake, it's just a convenient reason for your employer to let you go without having to tell you the truth.
bowling...totally agree, this guy talks about getting fired all the time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7u1VBhWCE
I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!!!
chigurgh
I am a temp - and temps get the boot - I can't make any mistakes - the direct people are given a lot more leeway and make all kinds of mistakes - they blame it on the temp guy - and "go pack your tools"
xenakis i hope you make minimum 6 digits, otherwise you are wasting your time.......to the OP, my second real job in profession i thought i had been hired as a draftsmen but found out i was a PM (barely 1 year experience) i asked questions out the ass,annoyed my employer, but if it didnt make i didnt waste time doing it - i asked questions........now i am learning a much worse scenario - i often assume my clients know what they are doing - bad idea. i know the customer is always right but the patient is not - trying to find the balance.