If anyone could share insight/advice on what it is like to work for OMA (NY office particularly), HWKN, and BIG I would really appreciate it!
I'm debating between the two, and I've read many threads here that state plenty of good and bad things about working for OMA (i.e. long hours, no weekends, high turnover, but exciting projects, great on resume etc) but I would still appreciate hearing more input from you guys - in case the same comments still apply to that office today.
Likewise for HWKN, couldn't find much information about their hours, pay, any info would be awesome!!
And is anyone familiar with salaries at BIG for designers?
natematt
May 21, 15 12:15 pm
Glassdoor says 36-41k for junior designers in BIG NYC. That would seem to line up with a few people I know who are connected with the company, and what they say.
BR.TN
May 21, 15 12:53 pm
^ that's such an abysmal wage to pay someone in Manhattan. I wonder where they live...
Non Sequitur
May 21, 15 1:41 pm
36K per year?
the janitor probably makes more.
chris-chitect
May 21, 15 3:38 pm
I've been out of the architecture world for a bit, but I have to ask, does working for a Starchitect really look good on a resume? Do you want this on your resume so you can find another low paying high stress job with another Starchitect?
I suppose it would look good for teaching, but I don't know what skills you'd get from working with someone like Zaha other than helping her with her boots.
70 hour week - $10.30-$11.71/hr <--- Indentured Servant with an Accredited Degree
I'm going to BIG next month and I'm gonna bring a whistle and a couple iron lungs.
natematt
May 21, 15 4:45 pm
does working for a Starchitect really look good on a resume?
People can be easily impressed with name dropping, so yes. Additionally, in respect to applicability of skills learned, it is my experience that even the most bland and practical firms tend to appreciate provocative design of almost any kind. At least at a junior level.
@BR.TN: Might as well just get a fast food job in LA in a few years
culinaryarchitecture1
May 21, 15 6:01 pm
Thanks for the input everyone. I assume the pay for BIG and OMA are similar, from what I have heard. Does the same apply for HWKN? Does anyone know if their hours are long?
3tk
May 21, 15 6:16 pm
Sometimes yes, the name is great; but stay too long and it'll hurt at others (no one wants to be the 'recovery clinic' for overworked and burned out people - I've interviewed where firms have told me that they have a black list of firms to avoid hiring from). One thing you may run into is that the next employer will expect that you put in similar hours for them.
36-41 isn't bad - a lot of people take less (as long as you have a cot in a closet, it's a living wage - assuming they feed you for the overtime; you won't be in the apt for more than a few hrs a day anyway). You may not learn how to put buildings together, but they're fun projects to work on in the short term.
BR.TN
May 21, 15 6:24 pm
^no culinaryarchitecture1, I wouldn't assume BIG and OMA have similar pay structures. I would assume the weekly hours and rigor for BIG and OMA are similar. But BIG is operating on some serious red-flag-type-shit with these wages. It's been covered earler on this forum that they are operating under a loophole that will be revoked in 2016 I think? It's related to keeping their salaries under a certain threshold so they don't have to administer overtime pay or something like that.
Anyways, I get paid $42k in Chicago as an intern with an unaccredited degree. OMA will definitely pay a junior designer over $45k and I would assume something close to $50k or more especially if they have 3-5 years of experience. I'm not speaking from personal experience with these firms, but rather that I'm extrapolating information from what their competition pays their employees. HWKN probably pays alright as well, over $50k I'd guess, I'm only familiar with their cofounder (Kushner) as a speaker/panelist/CEO of Architizer. Nice guy...
culinaryarchitecture1
May 21, 15 6:55 pm
Strange that BIG has been able to get away with it, especially now that they're upsized drastically. Although I've heard that they have plenty of positive energy and doable hours as opposed to OMA, where most people have mentioned that you will not sleep for days. Although I haven't heard/read anything at all about HWKN's hours and turnover rate, but maybe it's safe to assume it's similar to the other 2 because the partners came from Rotterdam back in the day??
natematt
May 21, 15 8:36 pm
To my understanding OMA pays about like any other larger firm, it just works people really hard. So I wouldn't lump them in with BIG on this one. Of course 40k is just low, not illegal and only somewhat suspect ethically. lets not forget that Sanaa add. Lots of firms out there paying people less than 10$/hour even if they are only working 40hrs a week. Stipends, avoid them.
culinaryarchitecture1
May 22, 15 7:04 pm
Any info would help!
gwharton
May 27, 15 10:54 pm
I can't imaging trying to live on $41k in NYC.
On the fence
May 29, 15 4:00 pm
When the minimum wage, across this land, reaches $15 that apparently most Americans are in favor of, the lower middle class will become part of the working poor.
At $15 per hour a person will make $31200 per year. Middle class is basically between $35000 and $150000, depending on what source you want to use.
There are going to be a lot of people in a lot of fields that will just droop overnight into a lower "class"
If you think that once minimum wage hits $15 and your boss is going to give you a $5 per hour jump just for giggles, you are really smoking something funny.
The plan and agenda from a specific political influence declared war on the middle class a few short years ago. They have played on peoples fears and their compassion while believing them to be dummies. This is the planned result a lot of people will now be living with for quite some time.
anonitect
May 29, 15 7:16 pm
Wait, On the Fence, are you saying that if the working poor aren't really suffering you won't be able to feel good about your middle class salary?
I would be much happier if I knew that blue collar workers didn't need to hold two jobs to avoid getting foreclosed on, and if nobody had to ask for donations to pay for their kid's chemo.
What we really need is a wage cap - through progressive taxation. Nobody's worth the money Wall Street is pulling down.
sameolddoctor
Jun 1, 15 12:07 am
I look forward to the time when architects make less than minimum wage.
ivorykeyboard
Jun 1, 15 2:58 pm
this thread is why i scoff at my colleagues who ridicule my willingness to work for a large corporate firm. pay, and being paid for overtime... dont see that ever being an option at a starchitect (maybe minus Foster)
sameolddoctor
Jun 1, 15 4:53 pm
Btw, how come HWKN is in the same league as BIG and OMA?
JLC-1
Jun 1, 15 5:12 pm
^amen, anon. it's the walmart-ization of all professions.
BR.TN
Jun 1, 15 5:13 pm
sameolddoc,
they're not, but your phrasing alludes to that. the OP has implicitly connected them because I assume they had an interest in applying to each office, regardless if they're "in the same league" or not. For example, it would be like someone applying to RAMSA vs KPF vs Gensler, even though they have few similarities and rarely compete for the same bids, but the applicant might have interests in working for any of them.
Obviously OMA and BIG are comparable, however.
On the fence
Jun 4, 15 11:00 am
Anon,
I am saying that everybody right now who make less than $15 per hour, roughly 40% of working Americans, when they all get bumped to $15 all it will do is increase the amount of working poor. The people making $15.25 might get bumped to $15.75 but trust me when I say that the people making between $15 and $25 per hour are not going to be bumped significantly. And they will wonder what just happened to them because they will see years of increases disappear as the cost of products and services increase.
And no I am not worried about me as I am further in my career. I'm more or less topped out unless I change directions. It is people with 10 years or less in architecture that will really feel this.
anonitect
Jun 5, 15 9:12 am
I don't think that minimum wage increases are inflationary. Maybe for some things, a little bit. There's debate on the issue, but it isn't as if wage increases would be meaningless - spending power for the poor would increase, and the middle class wouldn't see their buying power shrink. I'm not an economist, and there are people who could make a coherent argument about why I'm wrong (and a lot who agree), but there's a moral aspect to the problem as well, which needs to be addressed.
If anyone could share insight/advice on what it is like to work for OMA (NY office particularly), HWKN, and BIG I would really appreciate it!
I'm debating between the two, and I've read many threads here that state plenty of good and bad things about working for OMA (i.e. long hours, no weekends, high turnover, but exciting projects, great on resume etc) but I would still appreciate hearing more input from you guys - in case the same comments still apply to that office today.
Likewise for HWKN, couldn't find much information about their hours, pay, any info would be awesome!!
And is anyone familiar with salaries at BIG for designers?
Glassdoor says 36-41k for junior designers in BIG NYC. That would seem to line up with a few people I know who are connected with the company, and what they say.
^ that's such an abysmal wage to pay someone in Manhattan. I wonder where they live...
36K per year?
the janitor probably makes more.
I've been out of the architecture world for a bit, but I have to ask, does working for a Starchitect really look good on a resume? Do you want this on your resume so you can find another low paying high stress job with another Starchitect?
I suppose it would look good for teaching, but I don't know what skills you'd get from working with someone like Zaha other than helping her with her boots.
http://www.businessinsider.com/zaha-hadid-management-style-2013-3
$36k-41k at 50 weeks a year:
40 hour week - $18.00-$20.50/hr <--- Custodial Staff
50 hour week - $14.40-$16.40/hr
55 hour week - $13.10-$14.90/hr
60 hour week - $12.00-$13.66/hr
70 hour week - $10.30-$11.71/hr <--- Indentured Servant with an Accredited Degree
I'm going to BIG next month and I'm gonna bring a whistle and a couple iron lungs.
does working for a Starchitect really look good on a resume?
People can be easily impressed with name dropping, so yes. Additionally, in respect to applicability of skills learned, it is my experience that even the most bland and practical firms tend to appreciate provocative design of almost any kind. At least at a junior level.
@BR.TN: Might as well just get a fast food job in LA in a few years
Thanks for the input everyone. I assume the pay for BIG and OMA are similar, from what I have heard. Does the same apply for HWKN? Does anyone know if their hours are long?
Sometimes yes, the name is great; but stay too long and it'll hurt at others (no one wants to be the 'recovery clinic' for overworked and burned out people - I've interviewed where firms have told me that they have a black list of firms to avoid hiring from). One thing you may run into is that the next employer will expect that you put in similar hours for them.
36-41 isn't bad - a lot of people take less (as long as you have a cot in a closet, it's a living wage - assuming they feed you for the overtime; you won't be in the apt for more than a few hrs a day anyway). You may not learn how to put buildings together, but they're fun projects to work on in the short term.
^no culinaryarchitecture1, I wouldn't assume BIG and OMA have similar pay structures. I would assume the weekly hours and rigor for BIG and OMA are similar. But BIG is operating on some serious red-flag-type-shit with these wages. It's been covered earler on this forum that they are operating under a loophole that will be revoked in 2016 I think? It's related to keeping their salaries under a certain threshold so they don't have to administer overtime pay or something like that.
Anyways, I get paid $42k in Chicago as an intern with an unaccredited degree. OMA will definitely pay a junior designer over $45k and I would assume something close to $50k or more especially if they have 3-5 years of experience. I'm not speaking from personal experience with these firms, but rather that I'm extrapolating information from what their competition pays their employees. HWKN probably pays alright as well, over $50k I'd guess, I'm only familiar with their cofounder (Kushner) as a speaker/panelist/CEO of Architizer. Nice guy...
Strange that BIG has been able to get away with it, especially now that they're upsized drastically. Although I've heard that they have plenty of positive energy and doable hours as opposed to OMA, where most people have mentioned that you will not sleep for days. Although I haven't heard/read anything at all about HWKN's hours and turnover rate, but maybe it's safe to assume it's similar to the other 2 because the partners came from Rotterdam back in the day??
To my understanding OMA pays about like any other larger firm, it just works people really hard. So I wouldn't lump them in with BIG on this one. Of course 40k is just low, not illegal and only somewhat suspect ethically. lets not forget that Sanaa add. Lots of firms out there paying people less than 10$/hour even if they are only working 40hrs a week. Stipends, avoid them.
Any info would help!
I can't imaging trying to live on $41k in NYC.
When the minimum wage, across this land, reaches $15 that apparently most Americans are in favor of, the lower middle class will become part of the working poor.
At $15 per hour a person will make $31200 per year. Middle class is basically between $35000 and $150000, depending on what source you want to use.
There are going to be a lot of people in a lot of fields that will just droop overnight into a lower "class"
If you think that once minimum wage hits $15 and your boss is going to give you a $5 per hour jump just for giggles, you are really smoking something funny.
The plan and agenda from a specific political influence declared war on the middle class a few short years ago. They have played on peoples fears and their compassion while believing them to be dummies. This is the planned result a lot of people will now be living with for quite some time.
Wait, On the Fence, are you saying that if the working poor aren't really suffering you won't be able to feel good about your middle class salary?
I would be much happier if I knew that blue collar workers didn't need to hold two jobs to avoid getting foreclosed on, and if nobody had to ask for donations to pay for their kid's chemo.
What we really need is a wage cap - through progressive taxation. Nobody's worth the money Wall Street is pulling down.
I look forward to the time when architects make less than minimum wage.
this thread is why i scoff at my colleagues who ridicule my willingness to work for a large corporate firm. pay, and being paid for overtime... dont see that ever being an option at a starchitect (maybe minus Foster)
Btw, how come HWKN is in the same league as BIG and OMA?
^amen, anon. it's the walmart-ization of all professions.
sameolddoc,
they're not, but your phrasing alludes to that. the OP has implicitly connected them because I assume they had an interest in applying to each office, regardless if they're "in the same league" or not. For example, it would be like someone applying to RAMSA vs KPF vs Gensler, even though they have few similarities and rarely compete for the same bids, but the applicant might have interests in working for any of them.
Obviously OMA and BIG are comparable, however.
Anon,
I am saying that everybody right now who make less than $15 per hour, roughly 40% of working Americans, when they all get bumped to $15 all it will do is increase the amount of working poor. The people making $15.25 might get bumped to $15.75 but trust me when I say that the people making between $15 and $25 per hour are not going to be bumped significantly. And they will wonder what just happened to them because they will see years of increases disappear as the cost of products and services increase.
And no I am not worried about me as I am further in my career. I'm more or less topped out unless I change directions. It is people with 10 years or less in architecture that will really feel this.
I don't think that minimum wage increases are inflationary. Maybe for some things, a little bit. There's debate on the issue, but it isn't as if wage increases would be meaningless - spending power for the poor would increase, and the middle class wouldn't see their buying power shrink. I'm not an economist, and there are people who could make a coherent argument about why I'm wrong (and a lot who agree), but there's a moral aspect to the problem as well, which needs to be addressed.