I'm just curious what everyone's experience with the job market is? I'm luckily happy with my current job but I've been laid off once and out of a total of 25 coworkers at 3 jobs in my 4 years of experience, I've seen 12 people let go, so pretty much 50% of the people I've worked with in the past four years have been laid off at some point. So getting fired or let go is pretty much always on my mind. Is it getting better out there though? And has been being employed these past years put me in a smaller crowd of people who didn't give up after graduation, or is that just a myth. I still get amazed looks from recent and current students when I say I'm employed full-time which doesn't make me very hopeful. What's everyone's opinion of the job market? Is it getting better, will sticking it out mean I'm one of the few with actual relevant experience 10 years from now, or is the supply of labor pretty much keeping step with the slow growth of the construction market. I mean I guess I'm a dumb liberal millennial but I don't really understand how we can believe growth capitalism can sustain itself another 50 years.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 20, 15 10:01 pm
We are getting to the point, right now, where signing bonuses are making a comeback. This is the late 90's.
As I've said before, the REAL money, hasn't even entered the game yet, wait another 8 months, and they'll be paying interns, errrr, recent graduates, about what they are paying a professional with 10+ years experience.
Miles Jaffe
May 20, 15 10:05 pm
^ LOL
b3tadine[sutures]
May 20, 15 10:14 pm
Miles, laugh, I know, it's funny, but here, they can't find any architects, and I've seen job postings for drafters, drafters, with $1000 signing bonuses.
The Fed hasn't even raised interest rates, and soon as they indicate that, the $1 trillion sitting on the sidelines, doing nothing, will get in the game. I'm not saying any of that is a good thing, I am saying that's a fact.
curtkram
May 20, 15 11:17 pm
where was that, somewhere like wisconsin wasn't it? i'll move pretty much anywhere with good fishing....
Miles Jaffe
May 20, 15 11:54 pm
Looks like 1999 and 2007 to me. Pump and dump.
shellarchitect
May 21, 15 7:43 am
got an email reply to a job i applied for in dec of 2011 - i guess things are getting better.
our cost estimates have been coming back way too low so contractors must be busy
chigurh
May 21, 15 8:13 am
I agree with b3tadine....the recession wiped out 10 years worth of architects/interns. It is impossible to find anybody decent right now. I don't know about signing bonuses and stuff like that, but it might get to that point soon...incentive for decent people to leave positions for something new.
pale shelter
May 21, 15 12:56 pm
I agree with Miles ( LOL ) ... and the response is "signing bonuses of $1000". OH MY!! I just got that from signing a new apartment lease.
Everyday Intern
May 21, 15 1:31 pm
I LOL'ed at the idea that a $1000 signing bonus is going to do anything to sway my decision on where I would work. I guess any bonus is a bonus though.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 21, 15 3:44 pm
Did all of you miss the part about "drafter"? I'm starting to see jobs, with fewer years experience than I have, paying 10-15k more than I make now.
pale shelter
May 21, 15 3:50 pm
What are interns starting out at these days anyways? 7 years ago I started at 43k plus 5% bonus... range was 35-45 for my classmates i think... midwest cities. So is the market improving and equating to higher salaries??
3tk
May 21, 15 6:26 pm
NE cities seem to be hopping (and SF?). Had at least one head-hunter call every week all last year. Not everyone is doing well, but the ones that are busy do find a hard time finding qualified candidates (and are willing to pay well to poach them - that is to say they aren't on the sidelines).
Classes '08~'10 had about a 50% hire rate out of my program 3 months from graduation, now it's closer to 90% with much higher salaries than before.
Maybe it's a bubble, maybe it's not, but positioning yourself to brace for another crash wouldn't hurt.
StarchitectAlpha
May 22, 15 9:44 pm
b3tadine[sutures] raising interest rates shrinks the supply of money. That trillion on the sides should already be in play because you are losing money in bonds and the stock market is at some pretty high valuations. Raising rates would allow you to earn money from T-bills and bonds again meaning the rich could just sock away they're money again. Unfortunately there just isn't much demand from what I can see. I just see mostly a lot of tenant improvements I don't see how that will change. Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up in southern California and places that were the boonies are now massive "edge cities." Orange County/Riverside for LA, Poway/Temecula for San Diego, freaking Modesto for San Francisco. All these cities of 100,000 or more people that exploded out of nowhere in just 10 years. However, besides big box retailers and other jobs with a nametag there aren't any good paying jobs in those massive tract home development cities of the 90's - early 00's, people mostly still commute back to the old city or commercial centers. So in order to get a crazy construction industry like we had we'd have to repeat that cycle, but are there really going to be edge cities of edge cities? in the 80's early 90's it was feasible because an hour commute was annoying but doable. Are we expecting people will commute 2 hours one way this time around? I'm just saying as someone whose looked into a way to enter home ownership or condo ownership or anything I'm literally looking at either the ghetto or something 1.5 hours away without traffic that is still out of most 25-35 yr olds price range. Now when I hover over the Salton Sea on zillow, then we finally get some doable prices. But regardless, I'm not going to live in the middle of nowhere and commute 2 hours one way, I'd rather just keep renting, same with most of my friends who are in other careers, I just don't see an explosion in construction again because there isn't any demand for it. Just curious if someone has an opposing view.
"Obviously, the precise amount of money sitting on the sidelines may have changed by now. But there's no reason to assume it's grown appreciably smaller, which is a problem. As Michael Mandel of the Progressive Policy Institute has written, lagging business investment is one of the chief problems slowing down our recovery. Companies are letting money sit idle, accruing minimal interest, rather than spending it on new equipment or offices -- and that's not even touching research and development or new employees."
*shrug* I'm handling 2-3 projects doing everything but the grand design from the higher ups. I try my hand at some schemes when the stars align and I find a few hours free at the same time that a project in concept phase hasn't been touched yet by a senior partner. I am also expected to jump in as draftsman during DDs CDs and shop drawing submittals on whatever needs help in the office, as long as it doesn't interfere with my own project deadlines (meaning, here's some extra work because project manager X doesn't know revit or cad... get it done after hours or over the weekend). I just got registered back in September, and received a raise starting in November as part of my annual raise. It was higher than normal at 5k, and brings me to 62.5k... The firm considers me an Architect I, but I feel like I'm more of a Arch II level. *shrug* I assume I could get more elsewhere?
ArchNyen
Nov 9, 17 9:24 pm
what is your location?
joseffischer
Nov 10, 17 9:13 am
Atlanta GA
Peter Normand
Nov 10, 17 10:45 am
The job market is good if you are on the right side of the skills gap.
The past recession is causing a shortage in skills and experience and not all of the design schools are teaching the software and basic drafting skills needed for new grads to be productive in their first week or month.
If you are new to the profession, and architecture is what you want to do in life, the best thing you can do is produce some drawings for a very small project. It can be a real project or something you imagined but make a set of drawings that demonstrate your ability to make construction documents. This could be a way to get around the years of experience barrier.
Not having a job is no excuse for not continuing to move forward on your professional growth.
Consider establishing your IDP record, Getting a CSI certification, go to community collage and get CAD or BIM certificate. if you are eligible in your state start taking the ARE. Having a few exams done is a strong way to indicate your seriousness about becoming a registered architect.
Finishing school is not even the halfway point in this profession.
Over and OUT
Peter N
3tk
Nov 10, 17 2:52 pm
Seeing a lot of skill gap at mid/"senior" level: a lot of people taking on (or being asked to take on) more responsibility than is prudent (leaving a sea of mistakes in their wake). Looks to me like there's not enough qualified workers to fill the work loads.
That being said, I'm seeing cracks in the NE market. We'll see how long the bubble holds.
archi_dude
Nov 10, 17 8:13 pm
Why is it a bubble? There's a housing shortage.
randomised
Nov 12, 17 1:50 am
I think it's more a presumed square meter shortage.
Hey everyone,
I'm just curious what everyone's experience with the job market is? I'm luckily happy with my current job but I've been laid off once and out of a total of 25 coworkers at 3 jobs in my 4 years of experience, I've seen 12 people let go, so pretty much 50% of the people I've worked with in the past four years have been laid off at some point. So getting fired or let go is pretty much always on my mind. Is it getting better out there though? And has been being employed these past years put me in a smaller crowd of people who didn't give up after graduation, or is that just a myth. I still get amazed looks from recent and current students when I say I'm employed full-time which doesn't make me very hopeful. What's everyone's opinion of the job market? Is it getting better, will sticking it out mean I'm one of the few with actual relevant experience 10 years from now, or is the supply of labor pretty much keeping step with the slow growth of the construction market. I mean I guess I'm a dumb liberal millennial but I don't really understand how we can believe growth capitalism can sustain itself another 50 years.
We are getting to the point, right now, where signing bonuses are making a comeback. This is the late 90's.
As I've said before, the REAL money, hasn't even entered the game yet, wait another 8 months, and they'll be paying interns, errrr, recent graduates, about what they are paying a professional with 10+ years experience.
^ LOL
Miles, laugh, I know, it's funny, but here, they can't find any architects, and I've seen job postings for drafters, drafters, with $1000 signing bonuses.
The Fed hasn't even raised interest rates, and soon as they indicate that, the $1 trillion sitting on the sidelines, doing nothing, will get in the game. I'm not saying any of that is a good thing, I am saying that's a fact.
where was that, somewhere like wisconsin wasn't it? i'll move pretty much anywhere with good fishing....
Looks like 1999 and 2007 to me. Pump and dump.
got an email reply to a job i applied for in dec of 2011 - i guess things are getting better.
our cost estimates have been coming back way too low so contractors must be busy
I agree with b3tadine....the recession wiped out 10 years worth of architects/interns. It is impossible to find anybody decent right now. I don't know about signing bonuses and stuff like that, but it might get to that point soon...incentive for decent people to leave positions for something new.
I agree with Miles ( LOL ) ... and the response is "signing bonuses of $1000". OH MY!! I just got that from signing a new apartment lease.
I LOL'ed at the idea that a $1000 signing bonus is going to do anything to sway my decision on where I would work. I guess any bonus is a bonus though.
Did all of you miss the part about "drafter"? I'm starting to see jobs, with fewer years experience than I have, paying 10-15k more than I make now.
What are interns starting out at these days anyways? 7 years ago I started at 43k plus 5% bonus... range was 35-45 for my classmates i think... midwest cities. So is the market improving and equating to higher salaries??
NE cities seem to be hopping (and SF?). Had at least one head-hunter call every week all last year. Not everyone is doing well, but the ones that are busy do find a hard time finding qualified candidates (and are willing to pay well to poach them - that is to say they aren't on the sidelines).
Classes '08~'10 had about a 50% hire rate out of my program 3 months from graduation, now it's closer to 90% with much higher salaries than before.
Maybe it's a bubble, maybe it's not, but positioning yourself to brace for another crash wouldn't hurt.
b3tadine[sutures] raising interest rates shrinks the supply of money. That trillion on the sides should already be in play because you are losing money in bonds and the stock market is at some pretty high valuations. Raising rates would allow you to earn money from T-bills and bonds again meaning the rich could just sock away they're money again. Unfortunately there just isn't much demand from what I can see. I just see mostly a lot of tenant improvements I don't see how that will change. Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up in southern California and places that were the boonies are now massive "edge cities." Orange County/Riverside for LA, Poway/Temecula for San Diego, freaking Modesto for San Francisco. All these cities of 100,000 or more people that exploded out of nowhere in just 10 years. However, besides big box retailers and other jobs with a nametag there aren't any good paying jobs in those massive tract home development cities of the 90's - early 00's, people mostly still commute back to the old city or commercial centers. So in order to get a crazy construction industry like we had we'd have to repeat that cycle, but are there really going to be edge cities of edge cities? in the 80's early 90's it was feasible because an hour commute was annoying but doable. Are we expecting people will commute 2 hours one way this time around? I'm just saying as someone whose looked into a way to enter home ownership or condo ownership or anything I'm literally looking at either the ghetto or something 1.5 hours away without traffic that is still out of most 25-35 yr olds price range. Now when I hover over the Salton Sea on zillow, then we finally get some doable prices. But regardless, I'm not going to live in the middle of nowhere and commute 2 hours one way, I'd rather just keep renting, same with most of my friends who are in other careers, I just don't see an explosion in construction again because there isn't any demand for it. Just curious if someone has an opposing view.
Trillions
"Obviously, the precise amount of money sitting on the sidelines may have changed by now. But there's no reason to assume it's grown appreciably smaller, which is a problem. As Michael Mandel of the Progressive Policy Institute has written, lagging business investment is one of the chief problems slowing down our recovery. Companies are letting money sit idle, accruing minimal interest, rather than spending it on new equipment or offices -- and that's not even touching research and development or new employees."
More?
What? More?
*shrug* I'm handling 2-3 projects doing everything but the grand design from the higher ups. I try my hand at some schemes when the stars align and I find a few hours free at the same time that a project in concept phase hasn't been touched yet by a senior partner. I am also expected to jump in as draftsman during DDs CDs and shop drawing submittals on whatever needs help in the office, as long as it doesn't interfere with my own project deadlines (meaning, here's some extra work because project manager X doesn't know revit or cad... get it done after hours or over the weekend). I just got registered back in September, and received a raise starting in November as part of my annual raise. It was higher than normal at 5k, and brings me to 62.5k... The firm considers me an Architect I, but I feel like I'm more of a Arch II level. *shrug* I assume I could get more elsewhere?
what is your location?
Atlanta GA
The job market is good if you are on the right side of the skills gap.
The past recession is causing a shortage in skills and experience and not all of the design schools are teaching the software and basic drafting skills needed for new grads to be productive in their first week or month.
If you are new to the profession, and architecture is what you want to do in life, the best thing you can do is produce some drawings for a very small project. It can be a real project or something you imagined but make a set of drawings that demonstrate your ability to make construction documents. This could be a way to get around the years of experience barrier.
Not having a job is no excuse for not continuing to move forward on your professional growth.
Consider establishing your IDP record, Getting a CSI certification, go to community collage and get CAD or BIM certificate. if you are eligible in your state start taking the ARE. Having a few exams done is a strong way to indicate your seriousness about becoming a registered architect.
Finishing school is not even the halfway point in this profession.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Seeing a lot of skill gap at mid/"senior" level: a lot of people taking on (or being asked to take on) more responsibility than is prudent (leaving a sea of mistakes in their wake). Looks to me like there's not enough qualified workers to fill the work loads.
That being said, I'm seeing cracks in the NE market. We'll see how long the bubble holds.
Why is it a bubble? There's a housing shortage.
I think it's more a presumed square meter shortage.