I've always wondered why so many people stay in this profession. These forums are filled with posters who love to gripe and complain bitterly about the field and yet do not leave for greener pastures.
If the hours, pay, promotions, office politics, sexism, work product, and economic instability are so bad, why is there such an energetic turnout at the AIA convention?
Trust me, I am as cynical a person as you will ever meet, and I know how frustrating worklife can be. Right now I'm an accountant and the days are deadly dull.
So, just for a change, can I hear what keeps you going? Hopefully something besides salary/rent/bills, etc. Maybe I'm tired of being a cynic, but I'd like to know that other people somehow enjoy this field that (after being away from for 10 years) I still feel passionately about.
Thanks.
JonathanLivingston
May 20, 15 5:14 pm
I love my job, care deeply that things are done correctly and to the best possible result. This literally makes everyday hell. There are just some many factors working against that goal.
I doubt I could find the same passion for something else. It seems like just plugging away and not caring would be more soul sucking. I imagine many of the bitter complainers are a result of similar attitudes. Its almost a requisite for the job, and actually probably makes most architects better.
So bitch on and generally continue giving a shit. It's what makes good architecture.
sameolddoctor
May 20, 15 5:23 pm
"why is there such an energetic turnout at the AIA convention?"
Because its a "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" - they are all trying to get work from each other.
JeromeS
May 20, 15 5:43 pm
People stay in this profession because it is the #1 Sexiest...
kickrocks
May 20, 15 6:24 pm
Everyone complains about their job. You think the garbageman wakes up early as hell and thinks "oh boy, garbage collection time!" with glee? A plumber doesn't want to deal with raw sewage when they can weld some new stuff together instead. In any profession that deals with people of all types, there will be complaints. Doesn't mean they all hate the work but there are obviously preferences as to what kind is presented daily.
Retail, hospitals, services, could be worse as architecture at least has a barrier to entry. It's hmm, building camaraderie at the expense of some idiot target.
People stay because at a point, there is no other option. Too old to change, responsibilities, the one-lifetime choice is made so just endure it until retirement or a reasonable escape plane surfaces. Why do you stay as an accountant? It's deadly dull so why not quit? Answer that and that'll cover most of the reasons for everyone else stuck somewhere.
x-jla
May 20, 15 6:55 pm
"behind every cynic is a disappointed idealist."
JonathanLivingston
May 20, 15 7:02 pm
^ exactly.
BackAgain
May 20, 15 8:15 pm
I guess part of me wonders if it's just the complainers who make the most noise. Every jobs has its pros and cons, but there seems to be an intensely negative slant in these forums. Is it simply that content architects just don't post as much or are they so few and far between?
Miles Jaffe
May 20, 15 10:04 pm
Why do I stay?
One reasons: the babes.
midlander
May 21, 15 12:17 am
what keeps me in?
I'm comfortable, I enjoy it, I know enough to have some value.
Are there other things I could do that would meet those requirements? Yes. But I like the abstract thinkiness of the job, even if that's probably also it's biggest weakness as a career.
I guess if you have reasonable expectations and healthy interpersonal skills it can be a good job. It seems like a large number of architects lack one or both of those traits.
Donna Sink
May 21, 15 10:29 am
sameolddoctor, you have no idea what the AIA is about so please stop with the tired stereotypes.
I stay in architecture because I love buildings and how people interact with them. I moved out of traditional practice because 1. recession and 2. I enjoy the more social side of our discipline - the programming phases, the direct client contact, the post-occupancy research. There is so much non-traditional work to be done in our discipline - if one aspect of the job is boring, see about moving into other work related to the field but not traditional.
rationalist
May 21, 15 10:36 am
I left, but then found my way halfway back (I'm now in a non-arch role at an arch firm). I couldn't stay away because of what a poster above called the "abstract thinkiness" of it, and because every time I get to go on site and see a building in progress it still makes me giddy. There's something magical about that to me.
gruen
May 21, 15 11:35 am
The booze
Carrera
May 21, 15 11:55 am
Was sitting on the deck at the cottage looking out at Grand Traverse Bay, in complete silence with a cigar & a beer….son came out and sat next to me (came up for a visit) and said “Well tomorrow it’s back to reality”….I turned and said….“No, this is reality”.
“Work” is an activity to achieve a purpose, which is a great thing, but when your “work” becomes only a means of earning income you’re in trouble…regardless of the work or task always find a way to make it fun. Have a spec to write? Do it on the porch with a beer & cigar. Meeting to go to? Drive there with the top down and hit a park on the way back. Life is equal parts of Work-Learn-Fun; just make sure the second two are always incorporated in the first one.
pale shelter
May 21, 15 12:51 pm
a perfect perspective Carrera
kickrocks
May 21, 15 4:40 pm
Note on complainers: the internet tends to feed off complaints like a machine powered by sadism and grief. There's only what, 50 or so active members on here? Count out the students or those who come here to pass/waste time. Count out those who just got in the field or are too young in their careers to really assess anything. You're left with a couple bitter folk but heck, you can find at least one in every workplace yet the few here barely represent them all.
As Carrera said, most people have a balance. Even if they're not in the best times, there isn't much a person would change if they picked architecture. Something about it keeps them going. You might find more praise on Instagram or Twitter--the forum medium is usually a conversation and those things tend to be glum.
mightyaa
May 21, 15 4:57 pm
Why?
When you think about it, we are in a great profession as far as what we do. Most folks and the work they do doesn’t leave behind a real tangible legacy. “Show me what you did last year?” They have to dig in deadfiles and it’s something paper and already obsolete or outdated… we can drive them to what we did. Even better, when the kids ask. It’ll be there for a couple decades, out on display, for everyone to judge. Very few professions leave a trail of ‘what have you done with your life’ like that.
3tk
May 21, 15 6:20 pm
Sure there are bad things, but in the end I'd rather being doing this than anything else - tried engineering and office jobs, but they didn't have the same variety and energy. Finding the right fit is hard (as in any line of work), but I'm at a point where I'm comfortable and stable financially, work relatively reasonable hours and have been through enough not to stress most of the 'emergencies' that pop-up. Taking a step back and seeing all the fun things that I get to do every day is immensely satisfying.
null pointer
May 21, 15 6:29 pm
Architecture is wonderful if you don't let other people bully you.
Don't push overtime. Don't let people drag you into their "emergencies". Work at a steady pace, and be good at what you do.
The end.
A day job is a day job. You aren't going to get rich working for someone else. Complaints of being badly paid generally come from people who are either too lazy to get licensed, or get bullied into staying at work late and thus sacrifice freelancing income.
zonker
May 21, 15 7:18 pm
there are people who put in the hours and are successful - there is a payoff
However, for the vast majority unfortunately, working extra hours has no payoff and they still get the boot.
the key term is "profession". this means you are capable of taking care of yourself. the complainers i guess thought if they went school, got a degree, and even passed their exams that things would just fall into place for them. wvery professional knows this is not the case...........if i complain i am in over my head, under the gun, and in dire need of a drink......afterall who gets to design a 12 story mixed use building with an assembly and all in about 36 hours...while working on nearly a dozen other projects......the satisfaction is the possibility that what you just lost sleep over will carve a space out of nothing one day and be occupied, walked thru, etc...its work,but not really
Thayer-D
May 21, 15 9:28 pm
I stay because you get to make people really happy. One can do this in a variety of fields, but the combo of beauty, practicality, and psychology makes even the most humble projects really rewarding. I hope you find something you love enough to bring you back.
quizzical
May 21, 15 9:57 pm
This thread is in serious danger of bringing a sense of optimism and energy back to Archinect.
Way to go, guys - keep it up.
Lightperson
May 22, 15 10:41 am
I love architecture but i can't stand most architects (and even worse, critics). Thank god most of my favorites are dead so I don't have to be dissapointed by meeting them.
Carrera
May 22, 15 11:17 am
++++Lightperson - I have admired a lot of work by architects but very few as people.
zonker
May 22, 15 3:35 pm
the the thing I find odd is architects will hand you a sketch or red-marks and its scribbles over-layed over more scribbles and in comprehensive poor handwriting and they expect you to to make sense out these childish scribbles - "that's not what I meant" and the next day you are told not to come back.
shellarchitect
May 22, 15 3:44 pm
lots of stories about terrible work environments here, I have never really been able to relate to them though. Always had pretty good jobs, good people etc... haven't loved everything by any means but nothing so bad to make me quit
(not counting unemployment!)
BackAgain
May 22, 15 4:09 pm
I'm pleasantly surprised by the comments I've received. As someone who had to leave the profession due to clinical depression, I've always wondered if my perception of the profession was accurate or a function of the illness. It has been incredibly difficult to lose my connection to architecture.
I always wanted to be an architect and sacrificed a lot to get into the field. The first time I walked into a design studio I felt incredibly lucky to be a person who would work in their dream job.
I know that there is no guarantee that anyone will hire me now after my absence, so I was looking to be reminded of what is possible out there.
zonker
May 22, 15 4:41 pm
If everyone would read Brian Tracy's No Excuses, then there would be no more complaining on archinect - people would suck it up and do what it takes.
As someone who had to leave the profession due to clinical depression
And you're coming back?! Some people define crazy as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's not crazy, it's stupid.
null pointer
May 22, 15 8:36 pm
Miles Jaffe, MD in the house.
kickrocks
May 22, 15 8:38 pm
Based on his past posts, it seems to be unrelated or at least worsened by the profession in his first few years starting out. So perhaps it is under control or a better time now to try again as it seems the current gig for him might be triggering another bout in the works if not also hitting the mid-life crisis.
Wow, I'm away for a few hours and the Archinect adolescents take over the discussion. And just so you don't display your total ignorance of mental illness, you can't "catch it' from working in a particular profession.
So maybe we can get back to the point?
Let's go Miles. With almost 4,800 posts (do you do anything else with your time?), I'm sure you've got another useless, childish comment in your arsenal.
Seriously, can we hear from some more grownups? Thanks.
Miles Jaffe
May 23, 15 12:18 am
You've already posted the same question here repeatedly. Apparently you didn't like the replies so you posted it again.
Some people define crazy as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's not crazy, it's stupid.
Or both.
rationalist
May 23, 15 1:57 pm
BackAgain, hearing your story there's one more thing I would want to tell you. I've always said that anyone who is successful in design is a bit crazy (using crazy colloquially to mean unbalanced, unreasonable, etc. not clinically insane). It's all about finding a situation, a boss, a profession, etc. whose brand of crazy aligns with yours. Mood disorders are definitely not unheard of in this profession, but take care that you're positioning yourself to manage yours well rather than exacerbate it. Best of luck to you.
I've always wondered why so many people stay in this profession. These forums are filled with posters who love to gripe and complain bitterly about the field and yet do not leave for greener pastures.
If the hours, pay, promotions, office politics, sexism, work product, and economic instability are so bad, why is there such an energetic turnout at the AIA convention?
Trust me, I am as cynical a person as you will ever meet, and I know how frustrating worklife can be. Right now I'm an accountant and the days are deadly dull.
So, just for a change, can I hear what keeps you going? Hopefully something besides salary/rent/bills, etc. Maybe I'm tired of being a cynic, but I'd like to know that other people somehow enjoy this field that (after being away from for 10 years) I still feel passionately about.
Thanks.
I love my job, care deeply that things are done correctly and to the best possible result. This literally makes everyday hell. There are just some many factors working against that goal.
I doubt I could find the same passion for something else. It seems like just plugging away and not caring would be more soul sucking. I imagine many of the bitter complainers are a result of similar attitudes. Its almost a requisite for the job, and actually probably makes most architects better.
So bitch on and generally continue giving a shit. It's what makes good architecture.
"why is there such an energetic turnout at the AIA convention?"
Because its a "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" - they are all trying to get work from each other.
People stay in this profession because it is the #1 Sexiest...
Everyone complains about their job. You think the garbageman wakes up early as hell and thinks "oh boy, garbage collection time!" with glee? A plumber doesn't want to deal with raw sewage when they can weld some new stuff together instead. In any profession that deals with people of all types, there will be complaints. Doesn't mean they all hate the work but there are obviously preferences as to what kind is presented daily.
Retail, hospitals, services, could be worse as architecture at least has a barrier to entry. It's hmm, building camaraderie at the expense of some idiot target.
People stay because at a point, there is no other option. Too old to change, responsibilities, the one-lifetime choice is made so just endure it until retirement or a reasonable escape plane surfaces. Why do you stay as an accountant? It's deadly dull so why not quit? Answer that and that'll cover most of the reasons for everyone else stuck somewhere.
"behind every cynic is a disappointed idealist."
^ exactly.
I guess part of me wonders if it's just the complainers who make the most noise. Every jobs has its pros and cons, but there seems to be an intensely negative slant in these forums. Is it simply that content architects just don't post as much or are they so few and far between?
Why do I stay?
One reasons: the babes.
what keeps me in?
I'm comfortable, I enjoy it, I know enough to have some value.
Are there other things I could do that would meet those requirements? Yes. But I like the abstract thinkiness of the job, even if that's probably also it's biggest weakness as a career.
I guess if you have reasonable expectations and healthy interpersonal skills it can be a good job. It seems like a large number of architects lack one or both of those traits.
sameolddoctor, you have no idea what the AIA is about so please stop with the tired stereotypes.
I stay in architecture because I love buildings and how people interact with them. I moved out of traditional practice because 1. recession and 2. I enjoy the more social side of our discipline - the programming phases, the direct client contact, the post-occupancy research. There is so much non-traditional work to be done in our discipline - if one aspect of the job is boring, see about moving into other work related to the field but not traditional.
I left, but then found my way halfway back (I'm now in a non-arch role at an arch firm). I couldn't stay away because of what a poster above called the "abstract thinkiness" of it, and because every time I get to go on site and see a building in progress it still makes me giddy. There's something magical about that to me.
The booze
Was sitting on the deck at the cottage looking out at Grand Traverse Bay, in complete silence with a cigar & a beer….son came out and sat next to me (came up for a visit) and said “Well tomorrow it’s back to reality”….I turned and said….“No, this is reality”.
“Work” is an activity to achieve a purpose, which is a great thing, but when your “work” becomes only a means of earning income you’re in trouble…regardless of the work or task always find a way to make it fun. Have a spec to write? Do it on the porch with a beer & cigar. Meeting to go to? Drive there with the top down and hit a park on the way back. Life is equal parts of Work-Learn-Fun; just make sure the second two are always incorporated in the first one.
a perfect perspective Carrera
Note on complainers: the internet tends to feed off complaints like a machine powered by sadism and grief. There's only what, 50 or so active members on here? Count out the students or those who come here to pass/waste time. Count out those who just got in the field or are too young in their careers to really assess anything. You're left with a couple bitter folk but heck, you can find at least one in every workplace yet the few here barely represent them all.
As Carrera said, most people have a balance. Even if they're not in the best times, there isn't much a person would change if they picked architecture. Something about it keeps them going. You might find more praise on Instagram or Twitter--the forum medium is usually a conversation and those things tend to be glum.
Why?
When you think about it, we are in a great profession as far as what we do. Most folks and the work they do doesn’t leave behind a real tangible legacy. “Show me what you did last year?” They have to dig in deadfiles and it’s something paper and already obsolete or outdated… we can drive them to what we did. Even better, when the kids ask. It’ll be there for a couple decades, out on display, for everyone to judge. Very few professions leave a trail of ‘what have you done with your life’ like that.
Sure there are bad things, but in the end I'd rather being doing this than anything else - tried engineering and office jobs, but they didn't have the same variety and energy. Finding the right fit is hard (as in any line of work), but I'm at a point where I'm comfortable and stable financially, work relatively reasonable hours and have been through enough not to stress most of the 'emergencies' that pop-up. Taking a step back and seeing all the fun things that I get to do every day is immensely satisfying.
Architecture is wonderful if you don't let other people bully you.
Don't push overtime. Don't let people drag you into their "emergencies". Work at a steady pace, and be good at what you do.
The end.
A day job is a day job. You aren't going to get rich working for someone else. Complaints of being badly paid generally come from people who are either too lazy to get licensed, or get bullied into staying at work late and thus sacrifice freelancing income.
there are people who put in the hours and are successful - there is a payoff
However, for the vast majority unfortunately, working extra hours has no payoff and they still get the boot.
Should I stay or should I go?
the key term is "profession". this means you are capable of taking care of yourself. the complainers i guess thought if they went school, got a degree, and even passed their exams that things would just fall into place for them. wvery professional knows this is not the case...........if i complain i am in over my head, under the gun, and in dire need of a drink......afterall who gets to design a 12 story mixed use building with an assembly and all in about 36 hours...while working on nearly a dozen other projects......the satisfaction is the possibility that what you just lost sleep over will carve a space out of nothing one day and be occupied, walked thru, etc...its work,but not really
I stay because you get to make people really happy. One can do this in a variety of fields, but the combo of beauty, practicality, and psychology makes even the most humble projects really rewarding. I hope you find something you love enough to bring you back.
This thread is in serious danger of bringing a sense of optimism and energy back to Archinect.
Way to go, guys - keep it up.
I love architecture but i can't stand most architects (and even worse, critics). Thank god most of my favorites are dead so I don't have to be dissapointed by meeting them.
++++Lightperson - I have admired a lot of work by architects but very few as people.
the the thing I find odd is architects will hand you a sketch or red-marks and its scribbles over-layed over more scribbles and in comprehensive poor handwriting and they expect you to to make sense out these childish scribbles - "that's not what I meant" and the next day you are told not to come back.
lots of stories about terrible work environments here, I have never really been able to relate to them though. Always had pretty good jobs, good people etc... haven't loved everything by any means but nothing so bad to make me quit
(not counting unemployment!)
I'm pleasantly surprised by the comments I've received. As someone who had to leave the profession due to clinical depression, I've always wondered if my perception of the profession was accurate or a function of the illness. It has been incredibly difficult to lose my connection to architecture.
I always wanted to be an architect and sacrificed a lot to get into the field. The first time I walked into a design studio I felt incredibly lucky to be a person who would work in their dream job.
I know that there is no guarantee that anyone will hire me now after my absence, so I was looking to be reminded of what is possible out there.
If everyone would read Brian Tracy's No Excuses, then there would be no more complaining on archinect - people would suck it up and do what it takes.
http://www.amazon.com/No-Excuses-The-Power-Self-Discipline/dp/1593156324
fuck this shit i am going home.
As someone who had to leave the profession due to clinical depression
And you're coming back?! Some people define crazy as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's not crazy, it's stupid.
Miles Jaffe, MD in the house.
Based on his past posts, it seems to be unrelated or at least worsened by the profession in his first few years starting out. So perhaps it is under control or a better time now to try again as it seems the current gig for him might be triggering another bout in the works if not also hitting the mid-life crisis.
miles is not a licensed doctor. intern....
if this is a book club....
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Enough-Smart-Doggone-People/dp/0440504708/
http://www.amazon.com/God-Emperor-Dune-Frank-Herbert-ebook/dp/B001F0WXX6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432346341&sr=1-1
Wow, I'm away for a few hours and the Archinect adolescents take over the discussion. And just so you don't display your total ignorance of mental illness, you can't "catch it' from working in a particular profession.
So maybe we can get back to the point?
Let's go Miles. With almost 4,800 posts (do you do anything else with your time?), I'm sure you've got another useless, childish comment in your arsenal.
Seriously, can we hear from some more grownups? Thanks.
You've already posted the same question here repeatedly. Apparently you didn't like the replies so you posted it again.
Some people define crazy as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's not crazy, it's stupid.
Or both.
BackAgain, hearing your story there's one more thing I would want to tell you. I've always said that anyone who is successful in design is a bit crazy (using crazy colloquially to mean unbalanced, unreasonable, etc. not clinically insane). It's all about finding a situation, a boss, a profession, etc. whose brand of crazy aligns with yours. Mood disorders are definitely not unheard of in this profession, but take care that you're positioning yourself to manage yours well rather than exacerbate it. Best of luck to you.