This is my first post in the forum. I've read many threads here like "civil engineer versus architects" and gained a lot information. I really appreciate the advice from you guys. However, there are two "unsolved and bothering" questions in my mind. Perhaps the answers are simple, but I just could not find by myself. I need some help.
I am an international currently study in a community college, planning to transfer to a 4-year university. But recently I've been struggling on deciding my major for the past few months!! I am interested in urban planning and architecture, but I am hesitate to choose architecture as my major for the following reasons:
Firstly, Is it worth studying in an accredited architecture program? I mean I can be an civil engineer who learns architecture in the spare time so I don't need to major in architecture when I am in college; also, I find out there are a engineers switching their directions to architecture. Most importantly, and admittedly, I can earn more when I graduate with a engineering degree(to earn back the money spent on my education-_-)
Secondly, is it good to turn my interest to my career? I am fascinated in the relationship between the construction, the environment, and people, so I think I want to be an architect. However, what I got now is that architects mostly do something other than designing, like the construction documents, technical things, etc, at least in the first ten years. I am worried that if I will get disappointed when it becomes my career and would rather be an engineer if the reality is different from my thoughts.
As for urban planning, personally speaking, maybe it needs years of experience so is not a good choice for bachelor major.
Do you have some experience or opinions related to my two concerns ?
curtkram
Apr 14, 15 9:57 am
if you intend to be an architect, then go to an accredited school. it will be harder to get a license if you go to an architecture school that isn't part of naab.
if you don't intend to be an architect, then i would advise against going to an architecture school, accredited or not.
if you like buildings, consider being a contractor or possibly a developer of some sort instead of an architect. i'm not saying that's the right choice for you, but it is probably a choice that shouldn't be dismissed.
there is a good chance you'll spend a lot of your life doing whatever your career is. might as well be something you're interested in.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 14, 15 10:05 am
Go get some life experience before you blindly pick a career.
toosaturated
Apr 14, 15 10:07 am
If you're majoring in architecture, make sure it's accredited. Almost every firm will look to hire someone with a "professional degree", which is a BArch or March. You will also need it if you plan on becoming licensed.
You should try to job shadow someone, try contacting your local AIA chapter and ask them if they can help you connect with anyone who is willing to give you a glimpse of the field.
Aubrey JhW
Apr 15, 15 2:57 am
Thanks for all your opinions so far. I will try to gain some real experience at first and then consider other options of my career.
Wilma Buttfit
Apr 15, 15 6:09 am
Buildings are designed mostly by the people who use them and pay for them. Architects are mostly drawing subcontractors, paper shufflers and a liability sink.
geezertect
Apr 15, 15 7:25 am
You can do 80% (or more) of what a licensed architect does with actually being licensed. You can't do civil engineering without being a civil engineer. Architects, for a variety of reasons, have allowed poachers into their territory, and it is too late to lock the door. If your interests are in a gray zone between engineering and architecture, by all means get the degree in engineering and learn the architecture outside of school. Your suspicions about the profession are on target. I think you know the answer already.
Beepbeep
Apr 15, 15 7:45 am
I would second maybe Civil Engineering if you enjoy the Math and Sciences enough. "I am fascinated in the relationship between the construction, the environment" You will do this a a civil engineer especially if you go into the construction side or structural side of civil engineering. Also as an engineer it seems you will make more money and you also will not be someones drafting bitch for 6-10 years. Architecture is pretty rough career wise, the school is really fun and engaging then once you get to professional practice it is pretty boring most days. My cousin started at 63K with his BS CE (architectural focus) I started at 40K with a masters and 2 internships and now and only at 50K with 4 years exp.
Aubrey JhW
Apr 17, 15 3:36 am
Well, thanks for sharing, the new opinions here make me confirm my thought that having an interest about architecture things seems not strong enough to drive me into architecture field as a career, though I need to, and am trying to persuade myself to "let it go(let go of my dream)"......
Lucas Hart
Apr 17, 15 5:47 am
You don't need to go as far as changing your dream, IMO. You can just ask some colleagues working on the field regarding their experiences. It might differs from one person to another, but it will allow you to get some insight before deciding.
3tk
Apr 17, 15 1:28 pm
Try to see if you can visit offices - engineering offices for the most part are very different from architecture offices. Note that while a lot of engineers make money, it's because they got through a pretty rigorous academic curriculum (3 semesters calc, differential equations, chemistry through thermodynamics, physics through fluid mechanics, computer programming, etc are all part of general education for a BS); and if you do poorly, you won't have the same pay (I've known from my college CivE to range from $40k~$85k and architecture majors to be in the $35k~$60k).
Doing something for $ and not enjoying it will wear you down eventually - but you'll have less stress financially. Hard to have both, but if you love something you tend to get better at it and leverage it into a half decent life style.
It is easier to go from engineering to architecture than the reverse - do be aware that the too fields have very different pedagogical approaches. I will say that most of my classmates that studied engineering are in engineering jobs, those that did architecture are all over the place (do to the pedagogy) from fashion to finance.
,,,,
Apr 17, 15 3:25 pm
1. Yes, an accredited program. An unaccredited program would limit your choices, it is going to cost you money for a mostly worthless degree.
2. There have been many people who have come to archinect and have said they always wanted to be an architect but for various reasons didn't and asked if it is too late to become one after getting a degree in something else and have x number of years in that profession.
Architecture is a tough and competitive profession. It is also at the same time a profession that is like no other.
Architects complain a lot mostly because we are critical by nature and training and in some cases like me are just assholes.
There are a lot of ways to have a rewarding career besides being the design principle in a firm. One can be a team member working on schools, non profits, low income or emergency housing.
It is your decision, but from your description architecture sounds like it is your dream to me.
StarchitectAlpha
Apr 17, 15 3:54 pm
You don't need to give up your dream of architecture because you get an engineering degree. I love architecture but I've realized it's not a good career but a great hobby. Look at it like someone who plays guitar. They don't have to major in music and work at guitar center to keep learning and growing their guitar skills. They could get a career in event planning to be near musicians and practice at night while making great money. You are spot on in making your career about money, the extra cash will allow you to pursue other passions such as architecture in your spare time. A job is a job, it will be boring, some are more entertaining than others but if you are forced to be somewhere for 50 hrs a week 50 weeks out of the year trust me, you'll wish you were doing something that was worth your time financially. IF architecture was what we imagined it to be ( creative, problem solving) then I'd say the lack of cash was worth it, but most architecture jobs are just drafting, even at the senior level you're just an advanced drafter to the client.
rationalist
Apr 18, 15 12:17 am
Architecture is a tough career—the hours are long, the degree of emotional investment people have in their work is incredibly high, and the competition is fierce. I'm going to be one of those old people and pull out the fact that of the 125 people who started in my class in architecture school, only about half graduated. Of those who graduated, many of us still chose to go into other fields afterwards. I don't say this to imply that you "can't hack it" or some such thing, as I have no idea of your skill level. But, here's the thing, the commitment really needs to be all the way there to not only make it on this road but actually be happy with the result when you do. You're having a tough time deciding, you have other options that you're interested in, you're concerned about the financials of it... I would say, if you're not totally sure, then go with an major that doesn't require such a complete commitment.
Volunteer
Apr 19, 15 7:33 am
Any profession at it's apex is art and civil engineering most certainly is included. Not only can you do architecture you can do landscape architecture as well. The reverse doesn't hold true in the least.
video_killed
Apr 20, 15 6:48 pm
@StarchitectAlpha
Really curious, how does one practice architecture as a "hobby", exactly? Looking at and appreciating buildings? If so, in your music analogy, it'd be more like someone who chose not to go to school to study guitar, but now can only listen to and appreciate the music of great guitarists. I don't buy it.
Apr 20, 15 9:04 pm
I think he means, don't make architecture your primary income source that you live your day to day and use it as a supplementary source of income. If we did that, then the path to licensure makes no sense whatsoever because you won't make the return on investment of money and time to become licensed. You don't undergo such a degree and process to become license for it to be a part-time gig. The problem is you may need to undergo additional education to be employable outside architecture because you need knowledge/skill sets not taught in architecture school.
video_killed
Apr 21, 15 12:36 am
Right, I get that the profession makes no sense when considering ROI, but my point is that the current system of professional degrees and licensure was set up to prevent people from being able to do architecture as a hobby. And for good reason. You can't put people's lives in danger from your awful guitar playing, can you?
Well... actually, I met a man last summer who had spent the past 30 years designing, building with his own 2 hands, updating, and expanding an elaborate house for himself and his wife, with no formal training. It was kickass. I suppose you could say he pursued architecture as a hobby.
Aubrey JhW
Apr 22, 15 3:36 am
THANKS for all the opinions shared here!
Now my plan is not choosing architecture as my bachelor major. Perhaps after graduating and working for several years, if I still want to be an architect, I can go to a 3-year graduate program though maybe, a bit late. But it is never too old to do something, people always say that, and architect is a life-long career, experience in other fields might be useful.
Anyway, no one knows the future, but at least waht I decided now is major in engineering and pay attention to the area of architecture.
By the way, in my view, a person do architecture as a "hobby" may probably have two meanings: First, really it is only a hobby---reading, skatching,etc. no real life practice, no harm....Second, though a professional education and licensure are needed for practicing, but I think there are people who are professional at something but don't rely on it to make a living, in other words, it is just like a "hobby" to them.
x-jla
Apr 22, 15 10:04 am
Make enough money and you can design and build anything you like. Architecture is an expensive hobby
YLMS
Apr 22, 15 11:58 am
aubreyw - this is exactly what i did. i turned down a very good B.Arch program years ago because of the precise reasons that many have argued here. i went for a more lucrative profession and enjoyed art/architecture as a "hobby". i always had a hunch that i would come back for an M.Arch degree but it took me a lot longer than expected. there are always trade-offs in life, the enthusiasm as a youngster versus the responsibilities later on, the pursuit of financial securities sometimes kills creative energy, etc etc. You might never find the courage to go back to architecture or you might be back with more wisdom and life experiences. this is the risk that we take in life and that's the beauty of uncertainty.
Volunteer
Apr 22, 15 6:04 pm
It would seem that an employed professional should be to attend a March program in the evening. Many well-regarded schools In urban areas offer MBA programs in the evenings just so students can remain employed in their field. What is the difference between a professor giving a lecture at 10 am or 7 pm?
Aubrey JhW
Apr 26, 15 4:00 pm
Sometimes I always think that if I choose not major in architecture now, will I be able to keep my interest in architecture after years of working? and that is why this is a bit hard to make a decision. Also, I know that be a student in march program while working is not so ..workable. But it is possible, and if I earn enough to pay my tuition probably will take an "adventure" to be a full time student.
- YLMS, really surprised to find out you made a similar decision. And you a re right, life is full of uncertainty-_-
placebeyondthesplines
Apr 26, 15 5:07 pm
Also, it would help if you could work on your English.
Aubrey JhW
Apr 27, 15 12:05 am
Indeed, I found some mistakes in grammar when I reread it. I am still not fluent in English, if my post is hard to read or confusing, sorry..
Hi, everyone,
This is my first post in the forum. I've read many threads here like "civil engineer versus architects" and gained a lot information. I really appreciate the advice from you guys. However, there are two "unsolved and bothering" questions in my mind. Perhaps the answers are simple, but I just could not find by myself. I need some help.
I am an international currently study in a community college, planning to transfer to a 4-year university. But recently I've been struggling on deciding my major for the past few months!! I am interested in urban planning and architecture, but I am hesitate to choose architecture as my major for the following reasons:
Firstly, Is it worth studying in an accredited architecture program? I mean I can be an civil engineer who learns architecture in the spare time so I don't need to major in architecture when I am in college; also, I find out there are a engineers switching their directions to architecture. Most importantly, and admittedly, I can earn more when I graduate with a engineering degree(to earn back the money spent on my education-_-)
Secondly, is it good to turn my interest to my career? I am fascinated in the relationship between the construction, the environment, and people, so I think I want to be an architect. However, what I got now is that architects mostly do something other than designing, like the construction documents, technical things, etc, at least in the first ten years. I am worried that if I will get disappointed when it becomes my career and would rather be an engineer if the reality is different from my thoughts.
As for urban planning, personally speaking, maybe it needs years of experience so is not a good choice for bachelor major.
Do you have some experience or opinions related to my two concerns ?
if you intend to be an architect, then go to an accredited school. it will be harder to get a license if you go to an architecture school that isn't part of naab.
if you don't intend to be an architect, then i would advise against going to an architecture school, accredited or not.
if you like buildings, consider being a contractor or possibly a developer of some sort instead of an architect. i'm not saying that's the right choice for you, but it is probably a choice that shouldn't be dismissed.
there is a good chance you'll spend a lot of your life doing whatever your career is. might as well be something you're interested in.
Go get some life experience before you blindly pick a career.
If you're majoring in architecture, make sure it's accredited. Almost every firm will look to hire someone with a "professional degree", which is a BArch or March. You will also need it if you plan on becoming licensed.
You should try to job shadow someone, try contacting your local AIA chapter and ask them if they can help you connect with anyone who is willing to give you a glimpse of the field.
Thanks for all your opinions so far. I will try to gain some real experience at first and then consider other options of my career.
Buildings are designed mostly by the people who use them and pay for them. Architects are mostly drawing subcontractors, paper shufflers and a liability sink.
You can do 80% (or more) of what a licensed architect does with actually being licensed. You can't do civil engineering without being a civil engineer. Architects, for a variety of reasons, have allowed poachers into their territory, and it is too late to lock the door. If your interests are in a gray zone between engineering and architecture, by all means get the degree in engineering and learn the architecture outside of school. Your suspicions about the profession are on target. I think you know the answer already.
I would second maybe Civil Engineering if you enjoy the Math and Sciences enough. "I am fascinated in the relationship between the construction, the environment" You will do this a a civil engineer especially if you go into the construction side or structural side of civil engineering. Also as an engineer it seems you will make more money and you also will not be someones drafting bitch for 6-10 years. Architecture is pretty rough career wise, the school is really fun and engaging then once you get to professional practice it is pretty boring most days. My cousin started at 63K with his BS CE (architectural focus) I started at 40K with a masters and 2 internships and now and only at 50K with 4 years exp.
Well, thanks for sharing, the new opinions here make me confirm my thought that having an interest about architecture things seems not strong enough to drive me into architecture field as a career, though I need to, and am trying to persuade myself to "let it go(let go of my dream)"......
You don't need to go as far as changing your dream, IMO. You can just ask some colleagues working on the field regarding their experiences. It might differs from one person to another, but it will allow you to get some insight before deciding.
Try to see if you can visit offices - engineering offices for the most part are very different from architecture offices. Note that while a lot of engineers make money, it's because they got through a pretty rigorous academic curriculum (3 semesters calc, differential equations, chemistry through thermodynamics, physics through fluid mechanics, computer programming, etc are all part of general education for a BS); and if you do poorly, you won't have the same pay (I've known from my college CivE to range from $40k~$85k and architecture majors to be in the $35k~$60k).
Doing something for $ and not enjoying it will wear you down eventually - but you'll have less stress financially. Hard to have both, but if you love something you tend to get better at it and leverage it into a half decent life style.
It is easier to go from engineering to architecture than the reverse - do be aware that the too fields have very different pedagogical approaches. I will say that most of my classmates that studied engineering are in engineering jobs, those that did architecture are all over the place (do to the pedagogy) from fashion to finance.
1. Yes, an accredited program. An unaccredited program would limit your choices, it is going to cost you money for a mostly worthless degree.
2. There have been many people who have come to archinect and have said they always wanted to be an architect but for various reasons didn't and asked if it is too late to become one after getting a degree in something else and have x number of years in that profession.
Architecture is a tough and competitive profession. It is also at the same time a profession that is like no other.
Architects complain a lot mostly because we are critical by nature and training and in some cases like me are just assholes.
There are a lot of ways to have a rewarding career besides being the design principle in a firm. One can be a team member working on schools, non profits, low income or emergency housing.
It is your decision, but from your description architecture sounds like it is your dream to me.
You don't need to give up your dream of architecture because you get an engineering degree. I love architecture but I've realized it's not a good career but a great hobby. Look at it like someone who plays guitar. They don't have to major in music and work at guitar center to keep learning and growing their guitar skills. They could get a career in event planning to be near musicians and practice at night while making great money. You are spot on in making your career about money, the extra cash will allow you to pursue other passions such as architecture in your spare time. A job is a job, it will be boring, some are more entertaining than others but if you are forced to be somewhere for 50 hrs a week 50 weeks out of the year trust me, you'll wish you were doing something that was worth your time financially. IF architecture was what we imagined it to be ( creative, problem solving) then I'd say the lack of cash was worth it, but most architecture jobs are just drafting, even at the senior level you're just an advanced drafter to the client.
Architecture is a tough career—the hours are long, the degree of emotional investment people have in their work is incredibly high, and the competition is fierce. I'm going to be one of those old people and pull out the fact that of the 125 people who started in my class in architecture school, only about half graduated. Of those who graduated, many of us still chose to go into other fields afterwards. I don't say this to imply that you "can't hack it" or some such thing, as I have no idea of your skill level. But, here's the thing, the commitment really needs to be all the way there to not only make it on this road but actually be happy with the result when you do. You're having a tough time deciding, you have other options that you're interested in, you're concerned about the financials of it... I would say, if you're not totally sure, then go with an major that doesn't require such a complete commitment.
Any profession at it's apex is art and civil engineering most certainly is included. Not only can you do architecture you can do landscape architecture as well. The reverse doesn't hold true in the least.
@StarchitectAlpha
Really curious, how does one practice architecture as a "hobby", exactly? Looking at and appreciating buildings? If so, in your music analogy, it'd be more like someone who chose not to go to school to study guitar, but now can only listen to and appreciate the music of great guitarists. I don't buy it.
I think he means, don't make architecture your primary income source that you live your day to day and use it as a supplementary source of income. If we did that, then the path to licensure makes no sense whatsoever because you won't make the return on investment of money and time to become licensed. You don't undergo such a degree and process to become license for it to be a part-time gig. The problem is you may need to undergo additional education to be employable outside architecture because you need knowledge/skill sets not taught in architecture school.
Right, I get that the profession makes no sense when considering ROI, but my point is that the current system of professional degrees and licensure was set up to prevent people from being able to do architecture as a hobby. And for good reason. You can't put people's lives in danger from your awful guitar playing, can you?
Well... actually, I met a man last summer who had spent the past 30 years designing, building with his own 2 hands, updating, and expanding an elaborate house for himself and his wife, with no formal training. It was kickass. I suppose you could say he pursued architecture as a hobby.
THANKS for all the opinions shared here!
Now my plan is not choosing architecture as my bachelor major. Perhaps after graduating and working for several years, if I still want to be an architect, I can go to a 3-year graduate program though maybe, a bit late. But it is never too old to do something, people always say that, and architect is a life-long career, experience in other fields might be useful.
Anyway, no one knows the future, but at least waht I decided now is major in engineering and pay attention to the area of architecture.
By the way, in my view, a person do architecture as a "hobby" may probably have two meanings: First, really it is only a hobby---reading, skatching,etc. no real life practice, no harm....Second, though a professional education and licensure are needed for practicing, but I think there are people who are professional at something but don't rely on it to make a living, in other words, it is just like a "hobby" to them.
Make enough money and you can design and build anything you like. Architecture is an expensive hobby
aubreyw - this is exactly what i did. i turned down a very good B.Arch program years ago because of the precise reasons that many have argued here. i went for a more lucrative profession and enjoyed art/architecture as a "hobby". i always had a hunch that i would come back for an M.Arch degree but it took me a lot longer than expected. there are always trade-offs in life, the enthusiasm as a youngster versus the responsibilities later on, the pursuit of financial securities sometimes kills creative energy, etc etc. You might never find the courage to go back to architecture or you might be back with more wisdom and life experiences. this is the risk that we take in life and that's the beauty of uncertainty.
It would seem that an employed professional should be to attend a March program in the evening. Many well-regarded schools In urban areas offer MBA programs in the evenings just so students can remain employed in their field. What is the difference between a professor giving a lecture at 10 am or 7 pm?
Sometimes I always think that if I choose not major in architecture now, will I be able to keep my interest in architecture after years of working? and that is why this is a bit hard to make a decision. Also, I know that be a student in march program while working is not so ..workable. But it is possible, and if I earn enough to pay my tuition probably will take an "adventure" to be a full time student.
- YLMS, really surprised to find out you made a similar decision. And you a re right, life is full of uncertainty-_-
Also, it would help if you could work on your English.
Indeed, I found some mistakes in grammar when I reread it. I am still not fluent in English, if my post is hard to read or confusing, sorry..