Hi everyone, just looking for some help understanding symbols on older floor plans.
If there's a good resource for understanding old floor plans I'd love that but I have yet to find one. This attached plan is my design but based on one from an 1875 book (Bignell House, in English Country Houses by William Wilkinson).
So, on the first image (which has the ground floor, first floor, and second floor of the same large house) I've numbered some areas on this floor plan and any insight'd be lovely.
1. I've gone from thinking this circle here is a well to perhaps a boiler or something. I'm not immensely proficient in reading floor plans to begin with so I could be wrong but I would look at that and see a door going into the circle. Whatever it is I'd love to know how tall is it and should I cover it.
2. There's four squares like this, two pair. Would they be support pillars at-all? I'd expect those to go straight through the whole thing but I could be wrong.
4. Are these hooks or what?
(The rest of the numbers had questions to which I've since making this image found the answers.)
Regarding the first item (the circular thing coming out of the dairy scullery), I've gone through the whole Wilkinson book mentioned above and put together all the plans where I personally noticed this thing we're discussing or something that could potentially be the same. I may have missed a couple but this is about as good as it'll get I imagine. (And I've apparently neglected to include the plan for Bignell House, which is the plan my one is based on.) Am I correct in seeing doors going into whatever this thing is?
2. and 9. seem to be exactly the same as Bignell House, a rounded shape totally outsdide of any buildings but connected to one, usually a scullery.
3. is rounded but within square walls and it comes out of the scullery. I thought it was indoors in a different building but the fuel shed is where it goes and is really outdoors.
1., 4., 7., and 8. are irregularly shaped but I believe the same device is implied. 4. seems the only one of these that protrudes totally out of the building. Interestngly, in 1. and 7. the device in question is in the wash-house and not the scullery. Could it be a different device in that case?
5. and 6. are rather more oblong, and 5. rather curiosuly seems to be indoors and not adjacent to an external wall, whereas in line with the rest of them, 6. is at the outer wall and could be outside.
10. and 11. are different but near the end of this I wondered are they fulfilling the same function. I'm talking about the rectangular items against the outer walls. The first image has this as well in the scullery.
Thanks very much for any help.
JeromeS
Mar 27, 15 3:44 pm
I stopped reading at "I'm not immensely proficient in reading floor plans"
So, how do you design homes and not be a proficient plan reader?
I will step aside for the thumping that comes next...
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 3:51 pm
Well, that was uncalled for and not remotely helpful, and a bit disrespectful. I'm modelling a manor for a computer game, if you need to know. I like authenticity and accuracy, so I designed a floor plan based on an existing one and I want to know what some of the symbols mean. I'm looking for this information since January. And this is not the first forum I've posted in.
Don't worry, it won't fall down unless I tell it to.
Donna Sink
Mar 27, 15 3:53 pm
For a video game you need authenticity all the way down to coat hook placement?
I don't understand this at all.
JeromeS
Mar 27, 15 3:54 pm
lol- one of life's truisms: You'll ALWAYS get what you pay for.
,,,,
Mar 27, 15 3:57 pm
Donna, I believe it must be for a new version of "Clue" and the coat hook placement would be important.
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 3:57 pm
Well, I didn't put them there. I don't imagine they're actually coat hook placements, but that's what they look like to me. I want to know about the round thing. That's the main question. That's why the whole thing is about that.
JeromeS
Mar 27, 15 4:00 pm
Maybe they are tie-off for the S&M club that meets at the house on Tuesday's?
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 4:05 pm
Apparently this was a mistake. Here's a better question: Where would *you* go to find this information?
Non Sequitur
Mar 27, 15 4:10 pm
EPD, in the old days, what we might take as "hooks" were actual astrological construction geared towards connecting the chakras of the dogs and cats that often roamed the courtyards, usually on little bicycles. You can get an app for your iphone that does the same thing today so you rarely see hooks like these anymore unless you give your contractor extra monies.
I have a good physic contact. Perhaps that could help since she's not a fraud like most of them.
JeromeS
Mar 27, 15 4:12 pm
but does she have a forum?
curtkram
Mar 27, 15 4:18 pm
resident evil might look good in a house like that
Well, that was uncalled for and not remotely helpful, and a bit disrespectful.
did you read any posts on this forum before posting your own question? Could you provide links to the other forums you posted in? Just curious what's out there. maybe we're not all bad people. (i am, but i'm just curious about other people...)
i can't see shit in the pictures anyway. maybe i just don't know how to click links. at first blush, i would say absolutely everything you stuck a number next to is a chimney.
Donna Sink
Mar 27, 15 4:30 pm
In the firm I used to work at we had an AMAZING architectural library, and it had this one particular amazing book that was all drawings of historic interiors with well-written text explaining what was going on in each image: the lifestyles and customs of the time that led to these decorations, furniture, arrangement of spaces, accoutrements, etc. I *think* it was this book, but I'm not entirely sure. It's been a long time. I recall it had a yellow cover.
Non Sequitur
Mar 27, 15 4:34 pm
I do like the BREW house in the first pic. Everyone should have a room(s) dedicated to beer.
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 4:34 pm
Thanks, mate. It's actually a spiritual successor to the classic Resident Evils. This is the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oePnBLZVO88 We're a bit further along than that but no new videos.
I've read some posts on this forum. No-thing too helpful, though. I need to know about that round bit, and I'm pretty sure it's no longer in modern homes.
I'm googling it since January as well. It seems to be generally in a scullery, but it's not the copper.
I can't see any thing in the pictures, either, now that I'm clicking on them. They're huge but the forum seems to have shrunken them. On the other forum I've linked, the images are quite visible. They're absolutely not chimneys, though.
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 4:35 pm
Thanks, Donna. Book looks nice. Not too dear. Perhaps I'll pick it up.
Carrera
Mar 27, 15 5:09 pm
OP, people began pasteurizing milk in the late 1800’s simply by heating it, wonder if “the round thing” is a furnace for that purpose…its opening is too small to be a door.
curtkram
Mar 27, 15 5:11 pm
maybe it's a coal chute
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 5:20 pm
That's an interesting suggestion, Carrera. I'll look into that. And it does look too small to be a door. But it is definitely intended as an opening, is it not?
Is there any indication of its height and whether it's covered?
Coal chute is another good one, although I'd imagine there'd be more of them and there's never more than one of this thing in a plan I've seen.
I should also mention I've shown this to an architect in person and he couldn't identify it. I really think it's because it's an older thing that's no longer needed so people aren't familiar with it now.
OP, here is a link to a book about farm houses where scullery’s are mentioned with floor plans of various farm houses with those "round things" in the scullery’s…used for heating/cleaning. Book also talks about milk scullery's and how they should be designed.
It's a computer game and as a video game developer, what's the point? Just model the building from the plans. What do you want to know. I might be able to suggest a book that can be helpful.
I'll have to locate where I placed it for the title.
SneakyPete
Mar 27, 15 5:43 pm
"e, a large furnace-pot"
Good call, Carrera.
Mar 27, 15 6:13 pm
Ok, the circular forms are round towers sometimes called turrets other than what is used for a spiral staircase. It's common of the Queen Anne style of victorian era architecture. Remember, there is several styles of victorian architecture
There is no single story that is correct to explain its use but for example in a fishing/sea port community, it had been said that it was used by wives of wealthy fishermen / sea captains (well captains of ships) in that it often allowed the wives to see when their husband were coming home and they were positioned and oriented so they could but that alone doesn't explain it. It was a wealth status statement as these turret towers were more expensive.
These were only used on homes originally built for the well to do wealthy folks.
It was not used on your less wealthy families.
Look at the example. It is not entirely unheard of in a massive mansion that you might have more than one turret tower but those would be in a mansion for someone of the super rich elite like the Rockefellers.
awaiting_deletion
Mar 27, 15 6:49 pm
2 from plan #1 I suspect millwork with a recessed mirror at wall. Millwork as in built in cabinetry. It is a dressing room and does not and the boxes do not appear to go all the way thru.
Mar 27, 15 7:33 pm
2. and 9. seem to be exactly the same as Bignell House, a rounded shape totally outsdide of any buildings but connected to one, usually a scullery.
3. is rounded but within square walls and it comes out of the scullery. I thought it was indoors in a different building but the fuel shed is where it goes and is really outdoors.
1., 4., 7., and 8. are irregularly shaped but I believe the same device is implied. 4. seems the only one of these that protrudes totally out of the building. Interestngly, in 1. and 7. the device in question is in the wash-house and not the scullery. Could it be a different device in that case?
5. and 6. are rather more oblong, and 5. rather curiosuly seems to be indoors and not adjacent to an external wall, whereas in line with the rest of them, 6. is at the outer wall and could be outside.
10. and 11. are different but near the end of this I wondered are they fulfilling the same function. I'm talking about the rectangular items against the outer walls. The first image has this as well in the scullery.
#3... might be a walk-out balcony with a guardrail wall. You would climb out the windows at that spot or it would be some sort of 'french doors' and you walk out onto this balcony.
That is my guess.
Volunteer
Mar 27, 15 8:01 pm
I think #1 is a well to get water for cooking and cleaning.
Volunteer
Mar 27, 15 8:09 pm
The UK National Trust should be able to tell you in a heartbeat what everything else is. Let us know, please!
distant
Mar 27, 15 8:16 pm
Kinda funny that some here are falling all over themselves to help a game creator, when we normally get all snarky (and refuse to help) when an actual building owner comes on here looking for free help with an actual building.
Thought we were going to stop giving out free advice when someone outside the profession comes here with an economic interest in the result.
Mar 27, 15 8:19 pm
Ok, we got two objects being labeled #1 on different photos. Confusing.
The round room adjacent to the dairy scullery could be a well or possibly a boiler or a number of things so it is hard to say. Obviously you would have to site it in a place where it being a well would make sense.
The circular thing is the "copper" - a cistern/boiler for hot water - a standard fixture in kitchens of the era. It's this sort of thing: http://www.1900s.org.uk/copper-water-heater.htm They were often built into an alcove or curved enclosure.
The pairs of boxed-in spaces on the third floor are not chimneys - the chimneys are the poched area in the thickened walls. The pairs of boxes are on either side of dormers - the center space is occupiable because it has a dormer - the boxed-in spaces are the low spaces under the eaves of the main roof, closed off with knee walls.
I can't see the "hooks" well enough on the tiny plans to make out what they are.
EPD Gaffney
Mar 27, 15 11:48 pm
To everyone that' been doing their best to help me, I am as grateful as I could be. You've no idea how stressful it's been trying for hours each day to work this out.
Personally, I'm satisfied. I'll contact the The UK National Trust just to see what they say, but without any further information, I'll make it a turret as per Richard Balkins. I'll post back here with the The UK National Trust's answer, whatever it is.
SpontaneousCombustion, thanks very much for that clarification. Unfortunately that's already modelled and isn't a dormer in the model, so I'll have to erase it from the map. But now that you mention it that falls in line with a question someone else answered on the other forum (labelled #3 on the first floor plan, which I initially thought looked like a door but knew it couldn't be on the top floor going out to no-thing like that). The woman that runs that site had a look and told me if it's a copper it's wrong. The way Wilkinson drew the coppers in these plans (according to her and an architect I've asked) is the internal unshaded circular bit in what's labelled 'Scullery', as opposed to the thing I was asking about in the Dairy Scullery.
distant: Glad you could help me sort out why people that I can only assume are grown-ups were making shit of me for asking for help at the beginning. Good to be aware such an attitude can be found here. I'd love to know what you would have preferred me to do, honestly, and I asked that above but no-one bothered to answer even that. I just want you to know, that you don't know a thing about me, making this game is the biggest struggle I've ever willingly undertaken, and if I see a penny I'll be shocked. I've taught myself everything I know and would gladly teach it to someone else. I can't wrap my head round your impulse to withhold knowledge from someone. But if I've misstepped on this forum, you or the others could politely explain it.
And let me give you your own special thanks, Richard Balkins. A lot of people have been helpful here, but you've clearly taken a personal interest and if I'm honest, it makes me feel a bit warm to see that you either love your craft this much or you just wanted to help, or maybe a bit of both. Cheers.
Mar 28, 15 1:32 am
It's hard to say with certainty what it is. I'm looked at the 3 photos and part of my responses pertains to the different sheets. When it is along the exterior, it is usually a turret or it is a bow window.
My response with regard to the mansion might not be 100% correct but on the other photos but tower/turrents type forms weren't entirely unique to Queen Anne era architecture. Talking to the UK national register is good. They maybe able to provide definitive info for you on the mansion but the other images with a bunch of different house plans from the Victorian era, I am confident is mostly correct.
I would probably hold off modeling that portion and work around that until you have some definitive answer.
I was having difficulty reading any of the writings that can be useful in understanding the Bignell House which is not typical and rather large scale.
EPD Gaffney
Mar 28, 15 1:48 am
Unfortunately, there really isn't any thing else left to model. A couple of ornaments but I'm doing this a couple of months and really have been putting off that bit until the very end.
I'm terribly sorry about the size of the images. The forum's resized them.
is where the plans all come from, just a different edition. And in this edition Bignell House is actually missing the 'hooks'. If you felt quite inclined to have a look, they're all there, in the plates right about where your link directs you. (Actually, my plates are titled, so you could even look them up.) But you've been very helpful and I wouldn't outright ask you to do that unless for your own recreätion. I'm in the middle of an e-mail to the UK National Trust and will tell everyone what's said after they've said it.
I suppose the main thing I wanted to be sure of was that when I model it I don't do something egregiously wrong. But given the difficulty in finding out what it is I don't suppose anyone would really know. I may have been in contact with thirty different people about it. Had to solve the mystery. I love a mystery, I must say.
Aluminate
Mar 28, 15 2:30 am
There are lithographs of this house in which it's clear that the "boxes" in the uppermost floor plan are the areas under the eaves of cross gables.
The circular thing may be the bread oven. The kitchen had an open roof, but the oven would have continued up to a few feet above the brewery's roof, through that roof as a circular chimney.
I believe the "hooks" are just pixels at the ends of an infill panel (where there was originally a door and the opening was closed off.) You can see that the plan you posted is a later plan than the plate in the book. The original doorway off the stair was closed off when the parlor-like space was divided into a butler's space and WC.
Mar 28, 15 4:16 am
Yeah. but also there is 'pilaster' like elements which I would assume is there to support a beam that is used to support the roof but it would help having photos of the building from different sides if it was possible.
We have the one rendering which is helpful but still.
EPD Gaffney, Into video games.... well a side topic but you might be interested in:
I have that and it is the book I was thinking of much earlier.
toasteroven
Mar 28, 15 7:41 am
computer game... all you need to know is that those spaces are places where you hide the zombies...
Donna Sink
Mar 28, 15 8:30 am
Richard the book I mentioned was all interiors, but the text went fairly deeply into how the domestic activities of the time influenced the built form - servants stairs being the most obvious, but it discussed lots of others as well.
Volunteer
Mar 28, 15 8:51 am
In rethinking this there is a small version of the circle in the kitchen "scullery" also. I think maybe they are small fire pits that heated bowls of copper filled for water for cleaning; one in the kitchen for pots and pans, the big one for laundry?
EPD Gaffney
Mar 28, 15 1:08 pm
I've contacted the UK National Trust regarding that round yoke. I'll post back with their answer in case anyone's interested.
Aluminate: Interesting insight. What I want is to give the game's map a bit of character. I want a player to look and think, 'Ooh, what the hell is that thing?' I may put servant bells there. Could make for a nice puzzle.
Richard: That looks incredible. I have my reservations for philosophical reasons (I kind of think our culture's been trading quality for convenience and the more it happens the less young people will be aware that there's an actual world out there but I digress), but it's lovely what we're capable of. Also, seeing as the round thing is coming off of the dairy scullery, where I wouldn't expect the lady of the house to go very often if ever, I'm wondering about that tower suggestion. It's just for sepculation now that I've e-mailed the UKNT but do you think that makes it less likely to be a tower?
toasteroven: That's my first thought, but what's more likely is I'll design it to make you think there's a zombie there but then there isn't and then a zombie comes from somewhere else and really surprises you. And on the second playthrough now that you know there's no zombie in there, there's a zombie in there.
Donna, I really do think I'll buy that book. It looks interesting in its own right and it's cheap.
Volunteer: Thanks for your suggestion to contact the UKNT. I believe by this time they wouldn't have needed a well in a wealthy home but I could be wrong. By the 1880s a lot of working-class homes had a single tap. This is a bit earlier but the owner clearly had money. And the woman who runs that 1900s site grew up like that, and she told me the one I'm asking about couldn't be a copper as it needed to be in the corner like in the regular scullery, and in that source of interminable amusement the brew house. She said that in her working-class home (or perhaps it was her mother's?) they did the washing using the one copper in the scullery. Could be different in a mansion like this, though.
Mar 28, 15 2:26 pm
I'm suspecting the round room off the corner of the Dairy Scullery may not necessarily be a tower as far as the Bignell's house.
It might be rounded because something inside is round but it is really hard to tell as the only elevation view is a single perspective rendering. I doubt it is a tower due to it being a single floor.
The other near by octagon structure projected from the rest of the structure appears to be be possibly a sort of attached octagon 'gazebo'-like structure (there's a word for it but can't think of it) in the same architectural style but it is an 'outbuilding' that is in some form connected by a wall that is connected to the main building much similar to castles/palaces with their outbuildings. It would not be a tower because it also is only a single floor based on the floor plan.
Back to the dairy scullery,
Lets remember this is 1866 and even if they have a working tap, but it would be interesting to know if there was an underground stream under the site. Then it could be that it contained some kind of dairy scullery equipment that is round in shape of substantial size so it was placed in adjacent room. Then it could be a cold storage room so who knows.
Can't say refrigerated or freezer but it is hard to say.
Regarding castAR,
There is alot of applications for it not just games but also non-gaming applications. It uses projected AR which its display is projected to a retroreflected sheets but it also can serve in applications of 3d visualization and even in gaming applications, you can see other players. At the very least, I would invite you to the forum there to learn more about it and what can be done with it. I'm pretty sure that most people knows there is an actual world out there.
In fact castAR allows you to see the real world as it involves augmented reality unless someone wants to have a full immersion virtual reality experience in which case there is the AR/VR clip-on that can block out the viewing of the real world through opaque cover plates. In projected mode, its like any other projection display but with head tracking and stereo projectors being used, you can look at a 3d model and literally walk around it and what you see will adjust as if you were walking around a real object. Potential use architecture visualization and potentially more intuitive. BTW: Release is projected to be out in Q4 of this year. In addition, there is plans for Unreal Engine 4 support and already support for Unity 4 and update plugin for Unity 5 is planned.
Aluminate
Mar 28, 15 6:26 pm
Richard there are no pilasters in the plan. Poched pairs of squares are all fireplaces - you can follow all of them vertically to their chimneys in the perspective. Hollow squares are boxed in spaces under eaves.
The infill casework or panel by the butler's pantry could have possibilities in a video game: secret rotating scooby-doo bookcase door, etc.
Miles Jaffe
Mar 28, 15 7:07 pm
Having watched some of the demo all I can say is third person PoV sucks, but the way the character rotates as if he's on a magic turntable adds hilarity.
Hi everyone, just looking for some help understanding symbols on older floor plans.
If there's a good resource for understanding old floor plans I'd love that but I have yet to find one. This attached plan is my design but based on one from an 1875 book (Bignell House, in English Country Houses by William Wilkinson).
So, on the first image (which has the ground floor, first floor, and second floor of the same large house) I've numbered some areas on this floor plan and any insight'd be lovely.
1. I've gone from thinking this circle here is a well to perhaps a boiler or something. I'm not immensely proficient in reading floor plans to begin with so I could be wrong but I would look at that and see a door going into the circle. Whatever it is I'd love to know how tall is it and should I cover it.
2. There's four squares like this, two pair. Would they be support pillars at-all? I'd expect those to go straight through the whole thing but I could be wrong.
4. Are these hooks or what?
(The rest of the numbers had questions to which I've since making this image found the answers.)
Regarding the first item (the circular thing coming out of the dairy scullery), I've gone through the whole Wilkinson book mentioned above and put together all the plans where I personally noticed this thing we're discussing or something that could potentially be the same. I may have missed a couple but this is about as good as it'll get I imagine. (And I've apparently neglected to include the plan for Bignell House, which is the plan my one is based on.) Am I correct in seeing doors going into whatever this thing is?
2. and 9. seem to be exactly the same as Bignell House, a rounded shape totally outsdide of any buildings but connected to one, usually a scullery.
3. is rounded but within square walls and it comes out of the scullery. I thought it was indoors in a different building but the fuel shed is where it goes and is really outdoors.
1., 4., 7., and 8. are irregularly shaped but I believe the same device is implied. 4. seems the only one of these that protrudes totally out of the building. Interestngly, in 1. and 7. the device in question is in the wash-house and not the scullery. Could it be a different device in that case?
5. and 6. are rather more oblong, and 5. rather curiosuly seems to be indoors and not adjacent to an external wall, whereas in line with the rest of them, 6. is at the outer wall and could be outside.
10. and 11. are different but near the end of this I wondered are they fulfilling the same function. I'm talking about the rectangular items against the outer walls. The first image has this as well in the scullery.
Thanks very much for any help.
I stopped reading at "I'm not immensely proficient in reading floor plans"
So, how do you design homes and not be a proficient plan reader?
I will step aside for the thumping that comes next...
Well, that was uncalled for and not remotely helpful, and a bit disrespectful. I'm modelling a manor for a computer game, if you need to know. I like authenticity and accuracy, so I designed a floor plan based on an existing one and I want to know what some of the symbols mean. I'm looking for this information since January. And this is not the first forum I've posted in.
Don't worry, it won't fall down unless I tell it to.
For a video game you need authenticity all the way down to coat hook placement?
I don't understand this at all.
lol- one of life's truisms: You'll ALWAYS get what you pay for.
Donna, I believe it must be for a new version of "Clue" and the coat hook placement would be important.
Well, I didn't put them there. I don't imagine they're actually coat hook placements, but that's what they look like to me.
I want to know about the round thing. That's the main question. That's why the whole thing is about that.
Maybe they are tie-off for the S&M club that meets at the house on Tuesday's?
Apparently this was a mistake. Here's a better question: Where would *you* go to find this information?
EPD, in the old days, what we might take as "hooks" were actual astrological construction geared towards connecting the chakras of the dogs and cats that often roamed the courtyards, usually on little bicycles. You can get an app for your iphone that does the same thing today so you rarely see hooks like these anymore unless you give your contractor extra monies.
I have a good physic contact. Perhaps that could help since she's not a fraud like most of them.
but does she have a forum?
resident evil might look good in a house like that
Well, that was uncalled for and not remotely helpful, and a bit disrespectful.
did you read any posts on this forum before posting your own question? Could you provide links to the other forums you posted in? Just curious what's out there. maybe we're not all bad people. (i am, but i'm just curious about other people...)
i can't see shit in the pictures anyway. maybe i just don't know how to click links. at first blush, i would say absolutely everything you stuck a number next to is a chimney.
In the firm I used to work at we had an AMAZING architectural library, and it had this one particular amazing book that was all drawings of historic interiors with well-written text explaining what was going on in each image: the lifestyles and customs of the time that led to these decorations, furniture, arrangement of spaces, accoutrements, etc. I *think* it was this book, but I'm not entirely sure. It's been a long time. I recall it had a yellow cover.
I do like the BREW house in the first pic. Everyone should have a room(s) dedicated to beer.
Thanks, mate. It's actually a spiritual successor to the classic Resident Evils.
This is the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oePnBLZVO88
We're a bit further along than that but no new videos.
I've read some posts on this forum. No-thing too helpful, though. I need to know about that round bit, and I'm pretty sure it's no longer in modern homes.
Here's the other forum I've posted in, where at least people were trying to help, although not surprisingly they couldn't identify the round thing. No-one seems to be able to.
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=61380&p=561807#p561807
I've been in contact with the webmaster of this site as well:
http://www.1900s.org.uk/index.htm
I'm googling it since January as well. It seems to be generally in a scullery, but it's not the copper.
I can't see any thing in the pictures, either, now that I'm clicking on them. They're huge but the forum seems to have shrunken them. On the other forum I've linked, the images are quite visible. They're absolutely not chimneys, though.
Thanks, Donna. Book looks nice. Not too dear. Perhaps I'll pick it up.
OP, people began pasteurizing milk in the late 1800’s simply by heating it, wonder if “the round thing” is a furnace for that purpose…its opening is too small to be a door.
maybe it's a coal chute
That's an interesting suggestion, Carrera. I'll look into that. And it does look too small to be a door. But it is definitely intended as an opening, is it not?
Is there any indication of its height and whether it's covered?
Coal chute is another good one, although I'd imagine there'd be more of them and there's never more than one of this thing in a plan I've seen.
I should also mention I've shown this to an architect in person and he couldn't identify it. I really think it's because it's an older thing that's no longer needed so people aren't familiar with it now.
http://www.ushistory.org/hope/house/cellar4.htm
Perhaps they are water wells?
OP, here is a link to a book about farm houses where scullery’s are mentioned with floor plans of various farm houses with those "round things" in the scullery’s…used for heating/cleaning. Book also talks about milk scullery's and how they should be designed.
https://books.google.com/books?id=DS4DAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=what+is+a+milk+scullery&source=bl&ots=QCHd-7oLbx&sig=F2yGe0ivuvzoVitzAXutfb6Us0E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IsgVVcebDcnToATcp4L4Bg&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20a%20milk%20scullery&f=false
I would watch dowton abbey
EPD Gaffney,
It's a computer game and as a video game developer, what's the point? Just model the building from the plans. What do you want to know. I might be able to suggest a book that can be helpful.
I'll have to locate where I placed it for the title.
"e, a large furnace-pot"
Good call, Carrera.
Ok, the circular forms are round towers sometimes called turrets other than what is used for a spiral staircase. It's common of the Queen Anne style of victorian era architecture. Remember, there is several styles of victorian architecture
There is no single story that is correct to explain its use but for example in a fishing/sea port community, it had been said that it was used by wives of wealthy fishermen / sea captains (well captains of ships) in that it often allowed the wives to see when their husband were coming home and they were positioned and oriented so they could but that alone doesn't explain it. It was a wealth status statement as these turret towers were more expensive.
These were only used on homes originally built for the well to do wealthy folks.
It was not used on your less wealthy families.
Look at the example. It is not entirely unheard of in a massive mansion that you might have more than one turret tower but those would be in a mansion for someone of the super rich elite like the Rockefellers.
2 from plan #1 I suspect millwork with a recessed mirror at wall. Millwork as in built in cabinetry. It is a dressing room and does not and the boxes do not appear to go all the way thru.
2. and 9. seem to be exactly the same as Bignell House, a rounded shape totally outsdide of any buildings but connected to one, usually a scullery.
3. is rounded but within square walls and it comes out of the scullery. I thought it was indoors in a different building but the fuel shed is where it goes and is really outdoors.
1., 4., 7., and 8. are irregularly shaped but I believe the same device is implied. 4. seems the only one of these that protrudes totally out of the building. Interestngly, in 1. and 7. the device in question is in the wash-house and not the scullery. Could it be a different device in that case?
5. and 6. are rather more oblong, and 5. rather curiosuly seems to be indoors and not adjacent to an external wall, whereas in line with the rest of them, 6. is at the outer wall and could be outside.
10. and 11. are different but near the end of this I wondered are they fulfilling the same function. I'm talking about the rectangular items against the outer walls. The first image has this as well in the scullery.
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1,4,7 and 8 are fireplaces connected to a chimney. maybe woodstoves connecting to chimneys.
5 & 6 are also chimneys as they appear.
10 & 11 are hard to tell because the images are too damn small and hard to see in full clarity.
2 & 9 - don't know. plans are a little small. Not sure if it is a bow window
https://www.google.com/search?q=bow+window+victorian&es_sm=93&biw=1128&bih=773&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bucVVZ--HpHYoASQrIDQCA&ved=0CCcQsAQ
They might be bow windows.
#3... might be a walk-out balcony with a guardrail wall. You would climb out the windows at that spot or it would be some sort of 'french doors' and you walk out onto this balcony.
That is my guess.
I think #1 is a well to get water for cooking and cleaning.
The UK National Trust should be able to tell you in a heartbeat what everything else is. Let us know, please!
Kinda funny that some here are falling all over themselves to help a game creator, when we normally get all snarky (and refuse to help) when an actual building owner comes on here looking for free help with an actual building.
Thought we were going to stop giving out free advice when someone outside the profession comes here with an economic interest in the result.
Ok, we got two objects being labeled #1 on different photos. Confusing.
The round room adjacent to the dairy scullery could be a well or possibly a boiler or a number of things so it is hard to say. Obviously you would have to site it in a place where it being a well would make sense.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ezQDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA70-IA11&lpg=PA70-IA11&dq=bignell+house+scullery&source=bl&ots=Htmjb5BlB8&sig=IPMCJbShV0ErNYTgLoFiEUHMFEE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v_MVVcSdAtPhoAThg4DYAQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=bignell%20house%20scullery&f=false
The circular thing is the "copper" - a cistern/boiler for hot water - a standard fixture in kitchens of the era. It's this sort of thing: http://www.1900s.org.uk/copper-water-heater.htm They were often built into an alcove or curved enclosure.
The pairs of boxed-in spaces on the third floor are not chimneys - the chimneys are the poched area in the thickened walls. The pairs of boxes are on either side of dormers - the center space is occupiable because it has a dormer - the boxed-in spaces are the low spaces under the eaves of the main roof, closed off with knee walls.
I can't see the "hooks" well enough on the tiny plans to make out what they are.
To everyone that' been doing their best to help me, I am as grateful as I could be. You've no idea how stressful it's been trying for hours each day to work this out.
Personally, I'm satisfied. I'll contact the The UK National Trust just to see what they say, but without any further information, I'll make it a turret as per Richard Balkins. I'll post back here with the The UK National Trust's answer, whatever it is.
SpontaneousCombustion, thanks very much for that clarification. Unfortunately that's already modelled and isn't a dormer in the model, so I'll have to erase it from the map. But now that you mention it that falls in line with a question someone else answered on the other forum (labelled #3 on the first floor plan, which I initially thought looked like a door but knew it couldn't be on the top floor going out to no-thing like that).
The woman that runs that site had a look and told me if it's a copper it's wrong. The way Wilkinson drew the coppers in these plans (according to her and an architect I've asked) is the internal unshaded circular bit in what's labelled 'Scullery', as opposed to the thing I was asking about in the Dairy Scullery.
distant: Glad you could help me sort out why people that I can only assume are grown-ups were making shit of me for asking for help at the beginning. Good to be aware such an attitude can be found here. I'd love to know what you would have preferred me to do, honestly, and I asked that above but no-one bothered to answer even that.
I just want you to know, that you don't know a thing about me, making this game is the biggest struggle I've ever willingly undertaken, and if I see a penny I'll be shocked. I've taught myself everything I know and would gladly teach it to someone else. I can't wrap my head round your impulse to withhold knowledge from someone. But if I've misstepped on this forum, you or the others could politely explain it.
And let me give you your own special thanks, Richard Balkins. A lot of people have been helpful here, but you've clearly taken a personal interest and if I'm honest, it makes me feel a bit warm to see that you either love your craft this much or you just wanted to help, or maybe a bit of both. Cheers.
It's hard to say with certainty what it is. I'm looked at the 3 photos and part of my responses pertains to the different sheets. When it is along the exterior, it is usually a turret or it is a bow window.
My response with regard to the mansion might not be 100% correct but on the other photos but tower/turrents type forms weren't entirely unique to Queen Anne era architecture. Talking to the UK national register is good. They maybe able to provide definitive info for you on the mansion but the other images with a bunch of different house plans from the Victorian era, I am confident is mostly correct.
I would probably hold off modeling that portion and work around that until you have some definitive answer.
I was having difficulty reading any of the writings that can be useful in understanding the Bignell House which is not typical and rather large scale.
Unfortunately, there really isn't any thing else left to model. A couple of ornaments but I'm doing this a couple of months and really have been putting off that bit until the very end.
I'm terribly sorry about the size of the images. The forum's resized them.
But the book you've linked me to here
https://books.google.com/books?id=ezQDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA70-IA11&lpg=PA70-IA11&dq=bignell+house+scullery&source=bl&ots=Htmjb5BlB8&sig=IPMCJbShV0ErNYTgLoFiEUHMFEE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v_MVVcSdAtPhoAThg4DYAQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=bignell%20house%20scullery&f=false
is where the plans all come from, just a different edition. And in this edition Bignell House is actually missing the 'hooks'. If you felt quite inclined to have a look, they're all there, in the plates right about where your link directs you. (Actually, my plates are titled, so you could even look them up.) But you've been very helpful and I wouldn't outright ask you to do that unless for your own recreätion. I'm in the middle of an e-mail to the UK National Trust and will tell everyone what's said after they've said it.
I suppose the main thing I wanted to be sure of was that when I model it I don't do something egregiously wrong. But given the difficulty in finding out what it is I don't suppose anyone would really know. I may have been in contact with thirty different people about it. Had to solve the mystery. I love a mystery, I must say.
There are lithographs of this house in which it's clear that the "boxes" in the uppermost floor plan are the areas under the eaves of cross gables.
The circular thing may be the bread oven. The kitchen had an open roof, but the oven would have continued up to a few feet above the brewery's roof, through that roof as a circular chimney.
I believe the "hooks" are just pixels at the ends of an infill panel (where there was originally a door and the opening was closed off.) You can see that the plan you posted is a later plan than the plate in the book. The original doorway off the stair was closed off when the parlor-like space was divided into a butler's space and WC.
Yeah. but also there is 'pilaster' like elements which I would assume is there to support a beam that is used to support the roof but it would help having photos of the building from different sides if it was possible.
We have the one rendering which is helpful but still.
EPD Gaffney, Into video games.... well a side topic but you might be interested in:
http://www.technicalillusions.com - such as their castAR which is under development.
The web forum for castAR - https://community.technicalillusions.com/
Donna, I believe I know the book. I have a copy of that book.. I think.
This it?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393732622/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have that and it is the book I was thinking of much earlier.
computer game... all you need to know is that those spaces are places where you hide the zombies...
Richard the book I mentioned was all interiors, but the text went fairly deeply into how the domestic activities of the time influenced the built form - servants stairs being the most obvious, but it discussed lots of others as well.
In rethinking this there is a small version of the circle in the kitchen "scullery" also. I think maybe they are small fire pits that heated bowls of copper filled for water for cleaning; one in the kitchen for pots and pans, the big one for laundry?
I've contacted the UK National Trust regarding that round yoke. I'll post back with their answer in case anyone's interested.
Aluminate: Interesting insight. What I want is to give the game's map a bit of character. I want a player to look and think, 'Ooh, what the hell is that thing?' I may put servant bells there. Could make for a nice puzzle.
Richard: That looks incredible. I have my reservations for philosophical reasons (I kind of think our culture's been trading quality for convenience and the more it happens the less young people will be aware that there's an actual world out there but I digress), but it's lovely what we're capable of.
Also, seeing as the round thing is coming off of the dairy scullery, where I wouldn't expect the lady of the house to go very often if ever, I'm wondering about that tower suggestion. It's just for sepculation now that I've e-mailed the UKNT but do you think that makes it less likely to be a tower?
toasteroven: That's my first thought, but what's more likely is I'll design it to make you think there's a zombie there but then there isn't and then a zombie comes from somewhere else and really surprises you. And on the second playthrough now that you know there's no zombie in there, there's a zombie in there.
Donna, I really do think I'll buy that book. It looks interesting in its own right and it's cheap.
Volunteer: Thanks for your suggestion to contact the UKNT.
I believe by this time they wouldn't have needed a well in a wealthy home but I could be wrong. By the 1880s a lot of working-class homes had a single tap. This is a bit earlier but the owner clearly had money.
And the woman who runs that 1900s site grew up like that, and she told me the one I'm asking about couldn't be a copper as it needed to be in the corner like in the regular scullery, and in that source of interminable amusement the brew house.
She said that in her working-class home (or perhaps it was her mother's?) they did the washing using the one copper in the scullery. Could be different in a mansion like this, though.
I'm suspecting the round room off the corner of the Dairy Scullery may not necessarily be a tower as far as the Bignell's house.
It might be rounded because something inside is round but it is really hard to tell as the only elevation view is a single perspective rendering. I doubt it is a tower due to it being a single floor.
The other near by octagon structure projected from the rest of the structure appears to be be possibly a sort of attached octagon 'gazebo'-like structure (there's a word for it but can't think of it) in the same architectural style but it is an 'outbuilding' that is in some form connected by a wall that is connected to the main building much similar to castles/palaces with their outbuildings. It would not be a tower because it also is only a single floor based on the floor plan.
Back to the dairy scullery,
Lets remember this is 1866 and even if they have a working tap, but it would be interesting to know if there was an underground stream under the site. Then it could be that it contained some kind of dairy scullery equipment that is round in shape of substantial size so it was placed in adjacent room. Then it could be a cold storage room so who knows.
Can't say refrigerated or freezer but it is hard to say.
Regarding castAR,
There is alot of applications for it not just games but also non-gaming applications. It uses projected AR which its display is projected to a retroreflected sheets but it also can serve in applications of 3d visualization and even in gaming applications, you can see other players. At the very least, I would invite you to the forum there to learn more about it and what can be done with it. I'm pretty sure that most people knows there is an actual world out there.
In fact castAR allows you to see the real world as it involves augmented reality unless someone wants to have a full immersion virtual reality experience in which case there is the AR/VR clip-on that can block out the viewing of the real world through opaque cover plates. In projected mode, its like any other projection display but with head tracking and stereo projectors being used, you can look at a 3d model and literally walk around it and what you see will adjust as if you were walking around a real object. Potential use architecture visualization and potentially more intuitive. BTW: Release is projected to be out in Q4 of this year. In addition, there is plans for Unreal Engine 4 support and already support for Unity 4 and update plugin for Unity 5 is planned.
Richard there are no pilasters in the plan. Poched pairs of squares are all fireplaces - you can follow all of them vertically to their chimneys in the perspective. Hollow squares are boxed in spaces under eaves.
The infill casework or panel by the butler's pantry could have possibilities in a video game: secret rotating scooby-doo bookcase door, etc.
Having watched some of the demo all I can say is third person PoV sucks, but the way the character rotates as if he's on a magic turntable adds hilarity.
Aluminate,
Makes sense. I here ya.
I think it may be a boiler of some kind.
Miles.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVauXUXwm5-yEVwVZZewoiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhdqMpTgSk
PoV is a matter of position of the virtual camera.
In this case, it comes down to what kind of gaming experience you are wanting to establish. Quite flexible.
Or a well?
Nope, I think it's a copper boiler.