I have recently completed my B.Arch and worked for a little while. Keenly interested in Real estate, I applied to the MS in Real Estate Development at Columbia and M.Des : Real Estate and Built Environment in Harvard.
Having been granted acceptance into both courses, I having a tough time deciding between them. I would appreciate any advice or personal experience anyone has relating to the two courses and any knowledge about the prospects immediately after the course.
fekim4
Mar 8, 15 12:51 pm
?
tmontelli
Mar 11, 15 8:30 am
Would love to hear as well! @fekim4, i was accepted into both programs as well and am debating as well. From the basic research on the granular details of the programs...first-lets be real, both great institutions...dont think you can go wrong with either. In the end, likely should come down to cost, location preference, family obligations etc etc. From what i have read/experienced....Columbia MRED-1 year intensive/in depth program. They stress the 3 pillars of real estate (financial, physical, and legal) into their 1 year curriculum. I am drawn to that. Coming from a capital markets background, personally, i want something to the point of RE finance/development so i can make my career jump after i graduate. Harvard-the main distinction i continue to see on their MDES, RE and the Built Environment is the fact that it is prefaced as a 'intense research degree'. Now i realize most graduate programs with have a thesis, or some culmination project...but i dont necessarily want to spend my time at Harvard (Note a 1.5 year program) working on research. Thats not why i personally want this degree. I want the ins and out of the RE business, and would feel like i am wasting my time if more then 25% of my time was on developing my thesis and conclusion etc. Harvard def cool about classes at HBS, Kennedy school of Law, and MIT. I need more info on how much time/effort is dedicated to the research aspect.
i also am settled in NYC, so that matters to me. Columbia is Columbia. a great school. Harvard is Harvard, a great school. Cant go wrong in the end, but it comes down to what you want. ANY INFO ON THE RESEARCH DETAILS FOR HARVARD GSD MDES WOULD BE GREAT!
fekim4
Mar 16, 15 3:48 pm
Hey @tmontelli. Sorry for the late reply. I spent the last week talking to a few graduates from the M.Des Real Estate course. They seem to be more than satisfied by the course for obvious reasons , but primarily because it lets you structure your course across schools that include HBS, MIT, Ken Law and GSD. MIT apparently has the best program, and its definitely beneficial to be able to take courses there.
As you were asking earlier, The research work is a positive, as it give room for you to interact with a lot of people in the field. It is also the first thing you would probably show someone while seeking employment. I dont see something like this in the gsapp course. Yes, the course does seem very design oriented, because of its GSD tag, but that in no way is true. There is ample amount of number crunching, and a lot depends on the courses you opt for actually.
However, that said, the GSD does lag as compared to the networking events hosted by Columbia for obvious reasons. Being based in New york, the course probably has a lot of advantages in terms of ongoing events and field exposure. The course at Columbia is also apparently more financially oriented. (if thats what you are looking for) Being an architect, I am slightly more inclined towards the GSD course at the moment.
I am still trying to get a grasp on the differences in terms of prospects. Please let me know about any further advancements on the same.
tmontelli
Mar 17, 15 10:14 am
I meant to say that the research component is a negative in my eyes for Harvard's program. I know all Masters programs will have a thesis, but i got the sense that GSD's program is revolved around your research proposal, and much of your time is spent on developing this research topic. Not that that is a bad thing, but i am more interested in spending a larger % of my time in classes learning about the technical, fundamental, and analytic components of real estate finance/development/investing...I think my view of Harvard's program as a research heavy masters program came from reading their website, and speaking to an admissions person...did you get the sense from people who attended the program that this dominated their time their? this is the one deterrent for me and GSD at this point.
let me know if you hear more about the 'research' part of the GSD program
awkeytect
Mar 26, 15 9:25 pm
I'm in the same boat. I've decided to find encouragement in the fact others share similar concerns regarding what the 'research component' really means.
I found this blog post from a current (I think) student within the concentration. I thought it shed new light on some of the content. Might be helpful to you as well
@ awkeytect- very helpful...perhaps the greatest insight ive read...current/past students reflections are likely the best source of insight...i am interested in capital markets/entrepreneurship...this puts in a good word for Harvards program. I am speaking with a GSAPP student tom, and Harvard head of department for real estate thursday. i will revert back with more color.
fekim4
Mar 31, 15 5:07 pm
@awekeytect - Thanks for the link. Paints a pretty vivid picture of the course.
@tmontelli : Look forward hearing about your discussion.
I found this copy of underWRITING online, (the Harvard Real Estate Club Journal i guess) which has quite a few student testimonials in it. Despite being a 2010 issue, You guys might want to give it a read. There are a couple of competition entries in the beginning, but the student reviews and articles further down are pretty descriptive about the course, what it targets, and how different people have different opinions as per their respective standings.
after much thought and internal debate (too much i should say), i elected to accept Harvard GSD's offer. In the end, both are great schools and the education will be similar. Three factors, in the end, determined my fate (listed most important to least). 1. Harvard seems to have much more connectivity with their business school, along with their law schoool, public policy school, and MIT. I hear getting into Columbia B school classes is very difficult. At Harvard, its encouraged and feasible. I look forward to taking classes at HBS and MIT...so in the end, its program offers the best of the best in GSD, HBS, and MIT. 2). Harvard's brand, reputation, and network...i know that is shallow, and Columbia still is IVY and an incredible school...but that's a reality. 3) Columbia's program head of real estate (Vishann) is leaving. I dont know how much of an impact that will actually have, but in small programs i think these program heads have a substantial impact on the programs and the connection between students and the real world etc. It could be fine, but it could also be a transitional year...and because its only a short program, i felt Harvard is more up and coming, has a strong foundation etc.
In the end, i am very happy, but the truth of the matter is both are great programs. i have spoken to no less then 20 alumni/current students (and even 1 individual who went to Columbia and then Harvard!)...you cant go wrong with either
Kapa
Apr 24, 15 9:47 am
Hi guys.
I am so glad I found this thread, although a bit late.
It is very reassuring to read all your insights and comments, because I have gone through a very similar path and decided to attend the Harvard MdesREBE. As I told someone who will also go that way, I wish everyone had the same "problem" choosing between such great universities and opportunities.
Although there is little more information that can be said in this discussion, I just wanted to point out 4 additional reasons why I decided to go for Harvard, instead of Columbia or NYU (the other two programs I applied to and got accepted):
1. Compact: I heard from admissions that the total class will be 15 to 20 students.
2. Professors are not all that academic (as some people think from an Mdes program): I went through the whole Faculty resumes and there are many hands on, very, very succesful founders and/or C-level professionals. Starting with Frank Apeseche and Bing Wang, area coordinators.
3. Real Estate Academic Initiative at Harvard: I know this has already been mentioned before, but I wanted to expand it because it is a HUGE, HUGE plus that Harvard offers and that I have not found in any other Real Estate program. Through it, you can interact at a multidisciplinary level, with HBS, HLS and several other faculties. You can participate in several workshops, seminaries, and job-fairs.
4. Finally, the Harvard I-Lab: This is a great tool for people who want to do their own start-ups as oppossed to get a job once they finish their master's like me.
Anyway, congratz to all and feel free to contact me.
Cheers!
Kapa
Apr 24, 15 6:13 pm
When I mentioned the I-Lab I ment to say that I am more inclined to either continue with my family business or do my own start-up. Hence, the reason why I felt over-exited when I read about the I-Lab.
REgeek
Nov 23, 18 9:43 am
Hello ... a bit too late but worth a shot ...
I am currently a first year Mdes - Real Estate candidate at Harvard GSD focusing on finance & investments. I have worked for couple of years in RE before applying (recommended). There are pros and cons, but the pros outweigh the cons (by a lot).
Some of the main pros:
Flexibility of the program and cross registration with HBS, HKS, HLS, and MIT (HBS tougher than others, but doable with the right approach and networking with professors + a priority is given to you when you become in your second year)
Huge networking opportunities if you know how to leverage the brand and how to sell yourself (especially if you have previous experience in RE)
Top notch speakers (from AM, PE and Development side, etc..)
Real Estate Conference that happens every Spring and attracts over 400 RE professionals (GSD + HBSstudents work jointly on that event)
Very good / Excellent professors with professional experience (some better than others)
The Mdes RE program is supported by HSREC, Harvard RE alumni board, and the RED Club at Harvard (you will be assigned a mentor from the Harvard RE alumni board in Year 1)
If you know how to pick your courses, you can enhance your modelling skills drastically
The thesis is now optional - you can do it or you can simply take other courses
Cons (in my opinion)
Harvard GSD: Very small building - not the best fitted out space technologically - lack of space and very few collaboration spaces (this might be partially solved by the planned expansion of the GSD)
Degree name "Masters in Design Studies" [although we call it a RE masters internally and with employers that know the program] - hopefully it will change in the future (due to the new leadership at Harvard [new president] and at the GSD [new dean])
You have to accept the fact that this is a design/architecture school so everything is design/architecture oriented (my advice is to benefit from the cross registration to the maximum and build a great network of friends across the whole university)
Grosso modo: this program has a huge potential to grow exponentially if things are done right in the future. Very smart students get in + Professors that graduated from the GSD and HBS teach the course + very good networking opportunities and speakers' series
buildingRE
Dec 24, 18 12:52 pm
Thank you, REgeek for this recent update on the REBE program!
I’m in the middle of my application right now. The pros + cons you listed are very insightful. It’s been hard finding new posts about the RE programs online (I’m applying to gsd’s + gsapp’s)
Hey guys,
I have recently completed my B.Arch and worked for a little while. Keenly interested in Real estate, I applied to the MS in Real Estate Development at Columbia and M.Des : Real Estate and Built Environment in Harvard.
Having been granted acceptance into both courses, I having a tough time deciding between them. I would appreciate any advice or personal experience anyone has relating to the two courses and any knowledge about the prospects immediately after the course.
?
Would love to hear as well! @fekim4, i was accepted into both programs as well and am debating as well. From the basic research on the granular details of the programs...first-lets be real, both great institutions...dont think you can go wrong with either. In the end, likely should come down to cost, location preference, family obligations etc etc. From what i have read/experienced....Columbia MRED-1 year intensive/in depth program. They stress the 3 pillars of real estate (financial, physical, and legal) into their 1 year curriculum. I am drawn to that. Coming from a capital markets background, personally, i want something to the point of RE finance/development so i can make my career jump after i graduate. Harvard-the main distinction i continue to see on their MDES, RE and the Built Environment is the fact that it is prefaced as a 'intense research degree'. Now i realize most graduate programs with have a thesis, or some culmination project...but i dont necessarily want to spend my time at Harvard (Note a 1.5 year program) working on research. Thats not why i personally want this degree. I want the ins and out of the RE business, and would feel like i am wasting my time if more then 25% of my time was on developing my thesis and conclusion etc. Harvard def cool about classes at HBS, Kennedy school of Law, and MIT. I need more info on how much time/effort is dedicated to the research aspect.
i also am settled in NYC, so that matters to me. Columbia is Columbia. a great school. Harvard is Harvard, a great school. Cant go wrong in the end, but it comes down to what you want. ANY INFO ON THE RESEARCH DETAILS FOR HARVARD GSD MDES WOULD BE GREAT!
Hey @tmontelli. Sorry for the late reply. I spent the last week talking to a few graduates from the M.Des Real Estate course. They seem to be more than satisfied by the course for obvious reasons , but primarily because it lets you structure your course across schools that include HBS, MIT, Ken Law and GSD. MIT apparently has the best program, and its definitely beneficial to be able to take courses there.
As you were asking earlier, The research work is a positive, as it give room for you to interact with a lot of people in the field. It is also the first thing you would probably show someone while seeking employment. I dont see something like this in the gsapp course. Yes, the course does seem very design oriented, because of its GSD tag, but that in no way is true. There is ample amount of number crunching, and a lot depends on the courses you opt for actually.
However, that said, the GSD does lag as compared to the networking events hosted by Columbia for obvious reasons. Being based in New york, the course probably has a lot of advantages in terms of ongoing events and field exposure. The course at Columbia is also apparently more financially oriented. (if thats what you are looking for) Being an architect, I am slightly more inclined towards the GSD course at the moment.
I am still trying to get a grasp on the differences in terms of prospects. Please let me know about any further advancements on the same.
I meant to say that the research component is a negative in my eyes for Harvard's program. I know all Masters programs will have a thesis, but i got the sense that GSD's program is revolved around your research proposal, and much of your time is spent on developing this research topic. Not that that is a bad thing, but i am more interested in spending a larger % of my time in classes learning about the technical, fundamental, and analytic components of real estate finance/development/investing...I think my view of Harvard's program as a research heavy masters program came from reading their website, and speaking to an admissions person...did you get the sense from people who attended the program that this dominated their time their? this is the one deterrent for me and GSD at this point.
let me know if you hear more about the 'research' part of the GSD program
I'm in the same boat. I've decided to find encouragement in the fact others share similar concerns regarding what the 'research component' really means.
I found this blog post from a current (I think) student within the concentration. I thought it shed new light on some of the content. Might be helpful to you as well
http://archinect.com/greenergrass/filling-the-void
@ awkeytect- very helpful...perhaps the greatest insight ive read...current/past students reflections are likely the best source of insight...i am interested in capital markets/entrepreneurship...this puts in a good word for Harvards program. I am speaking with a GSAPP student tom, and Harvard head of department for real estate thursday. i will revert back with more color.
@awekeytect - Thanks for the link. Paints a pretty vivid picture of the course.
@tmontelli : Look forward hearing about your discussion.
I found this copy of underWRITING online, (the Harvard Real Estate Club Journal i guess) which has quite a few student testimonials in it. Despite being a 2010 issue, You guys might want to give it a read. There are a couple of competition entries in the beginning, but the student reviews and articles further down are pretty descriptive about the course, what it targets, and how different people have different opinions as per their respective standings.
http://reai.harvard.edu/files/reai/files/810176090.pdf
after much thought and internal debate (too much i should say), i elected to accept Harvard GSD's offer. In the end, both are great schools and the education will be similar. Three factors, in the end, determined my fate (listed most important to least). 1. Harvard seems to have much more connectivity with their business school, along with their law schoool, public policy school, and MIT. I hear getting into Columbia B school classes is very difficult. At Harvard, its encouraged and feasible. I look forward to taking classes at HBS and MIT...so in the end, its program offers the best of the best in GSD, HBS, and MIT. 2). Harvard's brand, reputation, and network...i know that is shallow, and Columbia still is IVY and an incredible school...but that's a reality. 3) Columbia's program head of real estate (Vishann) is leaving. I dont know how much of an impact that will actually have, but in small programs i think these program heads have a substantial impact on the programs and the connection between students and the real world etc. It could be fine, but it could also be a transitional year...and because its only a short program, i felt Harvard is more up and coming, has a strong foundation etc.
In the end, i am very happy, but the truth of the matter is both are great programs. i have spoken to no less then 20 alumni/current students (and even 1 individual who went to Columbia and then Harvard!)...you cant go wrong with either
Hi guys.
I am so glad I found this thread, although a bit late.
It is very reassuring to read all your insights and comments, because I have gone through a very similar path and decided to attend the Harvard MdesREBE. As I told someone who will also go that way, I wish everyone had the same "problem" choosing between such great universities and opportunities.
Although there is little more information that can be said in this discussion, I just wanted to point out 4 additional reasons why I decided to go for Harvard, instead of Columbia or NYU (the other two programs I applied to and got accepted):
1. Compact: I heard from admissions that the total class will be 15 to 20 students.
2. Professors are not all that academic (as some people think from an Mdes program): I went through the whole Faculty resumes and there are many hands on, very, very succesful founders and/or C-level professionals. Starting with Frank Apeseche and Bing Wang, area coordinators.
3. Real Estate Academic Initiative at Harvard: I know this has already been mentioned before, but I wanted to expand it because it is a HUGE, HUGE plus that Harvard offers and that I have not found in any other Real Estate program. Through it, you can interact at a multidisciplinary level, with HBS, HLS and several other faculties. You can participate in several workshops, seminaries, and job-fairs.
4. Finally, the Harvard I-Lab: This is a great tool for people who want to do their own start-ups as oppossed to get a job once they finish their master's like me.
Anyway, congratz to all and feel free to contact me.
Cheers!
When I mentioned the I-Lab I ment to say that I am more inclined to either continue with my family business or do my own start-up. Hence, the reason why I felt over-exited when I read about the I-Lab.
Hello ... a bit too late but worth a shot ...
I am currently a first year Mdes - Real Estate candidate at Harvard GSD focusing on finance & investments. I have worked for couple of years in RE before applying (recommended). There are pros and cons, but the pros outweigh the cons (by a lot).
Some of the main pros:
Cons (in my opinion)
Grosso modo: this program has a huge potential to grow exponentially if things are done right in the future. Very smart students get in + Professors that graduated from the GSD and HBS teach the course + very good networking opportunities and speakers' series
Thank you, REgeek for this recent update on the REBE program!
I’m in the middle of my application right now. The pros + cons you listed are very insightful. It’s been hard finding new posts about the RE programs online (I’m applying to gsd’s + gsapp’s)