What should one look for when purchasing an old home? If the owners have painted all the surfaces, how can you tell if there is underlying damage? What raises red flags in your mind? Is there a simple test to check that plumbing is adequate? What do YOU look for when you are buying, or advising someone on buying a home?
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 4, 15 10:15 am
Just one thing, but most people don't think to look for this--look for adequate drainage. Is there enough fall off in the grade to get water away from the house during a rainstorm? My lot has poor drainage, the house is old (built in 1888) and the street level and alley have both risen several times since then and so there is so little fall off that it can flood the yard pretty quickly. Neither me nor the housing inspector saw this before we bought the house but it is obvious to me now. Then the neighbors 2 doors down scraped and plopped a mcmansion and changed the drainage on their lot which I think makes it even worse. We have had water in the basement twice and installed a sump, but it makes me worry everytime it rains.
Menona
Mar 4, 15 10:16 am
Visit the house when it's raining and check the attic. Had the good fortune to have this occur by chance while visiting a place that was in the top three on the "To purchase" list.
Peeked into the attic and... drip drip drip, coming off the rafters. Who knows how long that had been like that and what it had wrought throughout the guts of the structure. Found another place. New roof and no water stains on the rafters.
x-jla
Mar 4, 15 10:23 am
look for little bubbles in the drywall paper layer. if the paper is lifting off the surface its due to moisture in the wall. even if its been painted over its usually pretty visable. also, the smell can tell alot.
curtkram
Mar 4, 15 10:44 am
i would almost expect to have to add dirt around the house.
look for bubbles in the paint. keeping in mind they were likely covering some sins, bubbles might be how those sins get telegraphed.
look for wood rot at window sills. poke the outside of the sill with a screwdriver. maybe tap the sill and try to feel whether it feels like wood or wood bondo.
look for cracks going at 45 degrees down at the bottom corner of the sills on the inside. this one would have probably been easy to cover up.
look for any bowing in concrete bock walls (or poured concrete). maybe bring along a plumb bob.
drop a marble or 2 on wood floors to see if they roll away, and maybe how fast the roll away, to see how much foundation settling there is. open and close every door in the house, including cabinet doors.
look in the attic for water damage on the roof deck. even if it isn't raining, there is a fair chance you might see dark spots. also make sure the attic is well ventilated. insulation shouldn't cover soffit vents if you have those.
for plumbing, as far as i know you just turn on the water and see if there is water pressure. you can look at the date on the water heater to get an idea of how soon you'll have to replace it.
paying one of those home inspectors for a second set of eyes is a good idea for a investment as big and important as a house where you want to live.
if there has been a lot of effort put into sealing an old house, there also has to be effort into balancing the ventilation that may not have been considered with the older mechanical systems.
JeromeS
Mar 4, 15 10:49 am
^^curtkram
I second that - bring a screwdriver and stab it into anything you can.
If its an "old house" do the same in the crawlspace or basement. stab the joist and subfloors. The more difficult it is to get into the space the more likely you need to check it for dampness/moisture.
If it smells funny - you should probably worry something is wet. Look for staining. Look for vertical / 45 deg cracks
Do the doors and windows operate smoothly / as they should.
shellarchitect
Mar 4, 15 12:18 pm
check out the yard too, you may not want to have a gigantic oak tree 15 ft. from your house
chigurh
Mar 4, 15 12:53 pm
if you are in escrow, often times there is a condition in the contract that the home must be inspected for defects...Spend the money and hire your own independent inspector that can go in for half a day and really dig into the shit, $500 can save you in thousands in repairs later.
Camera the sewer lateral. Check the roofing and full HVAC system.
You are never going to find or even think about the things that a certified home inspector will look for and find in looking at a property and they will give you a full report. Items to fix, areas of wear and tear, the whole 9.
Personally, go into the crawl space and attic...you can learn a lot by checking out those areas, if you are going to be a home owner, you be in there a couple of times a year...
Carrera
Mar 4, 15 1:24 pm
As a seller I don’t like inspections mainly because people use the small stuff to restructure deals & drive the price down, but as a buyer I’ve been using them mainly because I’ve become lazy….I tell sellers that the deal is contingent on the inspection but only on habitability issues, other than that they make great things-to-do-lists and saves me time getting started on the rehab. Sweat the habitability issues, the rest is just sweat equity.
proto
Mar 4, 15 2:30 pm
zoning/permit research w/ local jurisdiction - unpermitted work? recent upgrades? was it a flipper (based on recent permits)? limitations for development (environmental, historic or design overlay)?
structure - frame is square, hardy and confidence-inspiring?
shell (waterproofing) - age of roofing? extent of eave coverage? soundness of siding? slope away around foundation?
plumbing: size of water service, age/type of piping, fixture age? well? septic?
HVAC: age & suitability of system
elect: service capacity, age/type of wiring if visible (usually only look at the box...checking outlets can be delegated to the cutthroat inspector you hire to drive down the purchase price)
Sarah: since you're in Texas, you'll definitely want to look for any evidence of termite infestation - if you're not familiar with what to look for, you can access tons of good information and pictures via Google.
Also, ask the Seller (or Seller's agent) very specific questions about (a) current type of termite protection being provided, including the annual cost; and (b) whether there ever has been any termite damage to the house, when it occurred and how it was addressed. If you get vague or evasive answers, be very, very careful going forward.
Mr_Wiggin
Mar 4, 15 3:48 pm
Termites and foundation issues in TX. I'm working on a project in Garland, the soil is ridiculously bad with a predicted vertical movement of ~21" on our site. So look at the foundation, it's probably busted...
Peter Normand
Mar 4, 15 4:06 pm
Look carefully for the radiator floor locations, sometimes the radiators are removed but the structural damage that occurs from decades of slow dripping or bleeding of steam and condensate is still there and you can literally fall through the floor.
Also have any insulation on pipes tested for asbestos
Also if the flooring is not all removed to the boards look out for asbestos in the floor tile glue
I one had a friend who turned down an awesome house due to asbestos siding which he could never remove due to the community health risk
Finally check to see if your future plans for the house will be hampered by ordinances and covenants that might come with a historic neighborhood or historic landmark designation.
Over and OUT
Peter N
chigurh
Mar 4, 15 6:12 pm
@carrera: It is great, as a buyer, you can get a home inspected while in contract and use all the defects to drive the price down or get them repaired before you buy on the sellers dime. Flippers suck and any way you can stick it to them, the better.
awaiting_deletion
Mar 4, 15 7:36 pm
Spider webs under exposed wood joists
curtkram
Mar 4, 15 8:27 pm
make sure there are no ghosts
awaiting_deletion
Mar 4, 15 8:36 pm
What do spiders eat and how do they catch their food? It's a real sign of an infestation..................if you see round screw heads in the sheet rock walls at where the studs are, the house if moving - slowly, eventually the paint cracks off the fastener. In general though old houses have all moved over time and are essentially settling. If it appears to be settling try to understand how it is settling, it may be a non-issue for the next 30 years or so.
Carrera
Mar 4, 15 9:03 pm
Chig - Sorry, guess I don't believe that inspection reports should be punch lists used to renegotiate, matters of habitation yes, but not a sticking window. Hot button issue in the real estate trade, they get misused. Don't sell much anymore but when I did I would offer a home warranty to divert buyers from getting inspections and it worked... never afraid of an inspection just afraid of misuse. Don't like flippers either but Realtors have a saying for buyers...." buyers are liars" so I guess when it comes to buying & selling things one could say everybody is a "crook":)
Thayer-D
Mar 6, 15 10:38 am
All these suggestions sound good. I'd look out for flecked paint also for the amount of lead paint dust that might be around. Aslo look at the foundations for cracks and deteriorated mortar joints. And definitely get an inspection from an impartial third party.
mightyaa
Mar 6, 15 11:01 am
You'll have to define "old". 1890? 1930? 1970? Construction means changed over time, thus so did the normal sorts of issues.
Another little peeve. You are buying an 'old' house. It will have issues, won't be fully current, and certainly not 'new' condition. Even new ones have issues. What you are really looking for is that those issues aren't significant enough that over time have caused significant damages. That's really the difference between new and old. New ones might still have a small water leak in the building shell, but not enough time has passed to create enough rot to manifest itself in a visible way. Old buildings have had enough time for those fungus's to eat away the wood making larger issues.
Most the eyebrow raising stuff I see is 'home owner modifications'. Notched joist to 'make room' for a new heating system, bearing walls compromised, home owner weekend project deck enclosures for a new room, basement remodels that place new structural forces upwards, etc.
Cracks over 1/8" are concerning. Hairlines are normal; Architects and inspectors tend to forget residential uses L/120 for deflection. What that means is for every 10 feet of span, the structure is designed to deflect 1". Wind loads, thermal expansion of different materials, etc. all create these minor cracks. Larger ones tend to point to a bigger issue, particularly through structural items like beams, foundation walls, etc.
snooker-doodle-dandy
Mar 6, 15 3:38 pm
Check out the Electrical Panel. Is it a 100 amp service or a 200. Is every breaker in the box used. Usually in an old house you will run into electrical wiring problems, where all the outlets are on one circuit. It was good in the old days but the demand of electrical appliances can prove to be a problem. For example, if your kitchen outlets are not on a separate circuit from you office area and you have your computer, along with wireless router, printer ect....and you flip on the microwave it is likely you will flip a breaker. We had that problem with our house even though we have a 200 amp panel with room for additional breakers. I ended up splitting off the office electrical outlets to prevent an overload which could switch off my computer, causing me to loose an un-backed up drawing.
Check the water pipes, are they Copper or galvanized pile. Better if Copper. Look at the shut offs. If there is a lot of green patina around the shut offs they most likely do not work. Sometimes you will find few if any shut offs which can also be a problem.
Have the windows been replaced. The wells of old windows are usually loaded with lead dust from the frictional use of paint grinding against paint. It is a problem if you have kids, cause usually a window sill is just about the same height as a bed and when you have a night breezed blowing thru a window and a kid is asleep they are usually getting blasted by lead.
Termites and Carpenter ants....check and check again! Those Buggers can do a lot of damage. I have been been in houses where the studs and the plaster lath is completely gone and you just have a standing layer of plaster.
Oh ya and Old fuel oil tanks are a big problem in New England. It was common practice to bury them and leave them once they started leaking. So you end up with contaminated soil, which needs to be dug up and carted off to a place where they burn soil.
Create yourself a check list and be sure you use it putting budget cost to fix problems so you have a good understanding what the true cost is of purchasing the Home of Your Dreams.
Check also to see if there are any easements crossing your property. I have seen all kinds of weird easements linked with land.
Hopefully you will know if a house has been used to cook Meth.....Breaking Bad!
awaiting_deletion
Mar 6, 15 9:35 pm
"You'll have to define "old". 1890? 1930? 1970? Construction means changed over time, thus so did the normal sorts of issues."
probably the most important point noted here.
curtkram
Mar 6, 15 9:52 pm
it was built in 1960
Carrera
Mar 6, 15 10:11 pm
A lot of what I'm listening to is the reason that architects have trouble doing this kind of stuff - we know too much, on average stuff. Actually worse is better... bought two houses that were sliding into a river, bought a suburban building with no parking, a lot of "unbuildable" land and properties nobody could get rezoned... average people wouldn't touch this stuff and owners were out of options.....knowing a lot is a good thing, if you know how to apply it.
curtkram
Mar 6, 15 10:17 pm
perhaps knowing what you're getting into is a good thing?
Miles Jaffe
Mar 6, 15 10:56 pm
Waaay too much to consider - as clearly pointed out by all the thoughtful posts - not to have a serious inspection by a trusted pro. And I don't mean 'professional' home inspector, but an experienced contractor, architect or maybe (damn it!) enginerr.
Volunteer
Mar 7, 15 8:10 am
It is important to go over the house with the inspector. Many of the things you find can be repaired in a few minutes after you take possession of the house. On our inspection however, which was being inhabited by a couple and their five daughters, we found an electrical wire in the basement going up to the stove frayed down to the copper. We got the wife's permission to repair it right then. At the end of the inspection we had a two-page list of items but only one of which (a brick support of the small back porch stair landing) I asked the owner to repair. The rest of the stuff I repaired afterward or just noted for future correction.
snooker-doodle-dandy
Mar 8, 15 10:00 am
Sarah, One last thing is if the house was built in 1960 it most likely has had a roof replacement if if is asphalt fiberglass shingles. It if has a double layer of roofing and the roof is near the end of its life you may have to strip the whole roof prior to re-roofing.
geezertect
Mar 8, 15 11:41 am
The above is good advice. In the end, don't forget to be realistic. Any old house is going to have "issues". If you expect a perfectly clean report, you will be disappointed. Buildings are just like people; they deteriorate with age.
mightyaa
Mar 9, 15 11:51 am
Ya... the 40-mid 70's stuff used the wonder material asbestos. Look for vinyl asbestos tile, asbestos duct wrap, and sometimes in the drywall finish like that nasty popcorn ceiling treatment. Framing will also seem a bit undersized and poorly done. Look for cracked rafters in the attic and proper bracing since it's probably stick framed versus trusses and they tended to use a lot of knotted wood.
Normal stuff will be inefficient windows and lack of insulation. Exterior walls are probably 2x4 meaning you are screwed about getting any real insulation in there. The rest maybe normal wear stuff; old heaters, valves, etc.
Watch out for aluminum wiring and galvanized plumbing. Good news is you'll probably find cast iron drain pipes and real copper if they didn't use the galv junk. There is some problematic copper though; welded seam versus extruded. Welded seam is known for developing pin hole leaks.
Carrera
Mar 9, 15 12:11 pm
Thought I'd be smart on my first real old rehab and strip all the old plaster off the studs and put up drywall - did I ever get a surprise - they cut studs with axes in those days (exaggeration) had to shim every sheet.
Miles Jaffe
Mar 9, 15 11:38 pm
After readng this thread nobody in their right mind would ever buy a house.
Carrera
Mar 10, 15 8:00 am
Apparently so, Sarah seems to have gone and hid in the basement.
mightyaa
Mar 10, 15 10:25 am
After readng this thread nobody in their right mind would ever buy a house.
New homes are worse in a lot of ways. Basically, most defects occur at intersections, particular between trades.. With modern complex roofs and plans, there are a ton more intersections than a rectangle with a simple gable. Furthermore, back in the day, the labor pool considered this their career, therefore tended to be higher skilled. So you have more unskilled labor on residential projects than before just collecting a paycheck and swinging a hammer. The developers are also living by the philosophy of build cheap, sell high and cutting corners. They are doing massive projects; So if they make a mistake once, they will repeat it thousands of times throughout a development.
Also the materials. Chip board type products like OSB and TJI's can't handle water like solid wood. So they rot easier. Tons of exterior trims are particle board now. A lot of materials are also 'veneer' type things versus a solid and there are a ton of cheap products on the market that don't hold up well... Basically, the older buildings generally are more durable to handle the mistakes; a portico 12x12 column on a old building is real... in modern, it's trims applied over studs (which you are lucky if someone considered exterior rated and wrapped).
And one more thing, a drafty house dries out. Molds and rots are fungus's; They need water to grow. Because we are making tighter houses for energy efficiency, moisture tends to linger.
Miles Jaffe
Mar 10, 15 10:42 am
^ Exactly. The house in the thread whats wrong with this picture is a textbook demonstration of this.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 11, 15 11:17 am
I agree with mightyaa. My house is 127 years old, the things that can go wrong have already gone wrong, which are plenty, but if there was anything really wrong with it, it simply would not be here anymore. It is a simple shed with a simple gable roof and built with big sticks of wood. Because it is simple, it is adaptable and flexible and fixable. Insulation is a minus but I like knowing I'm getting plenty of fresh air! I have good solar exposure and turn the furnace off many days of the winter and just let the sun shine in. In the summer we don't need AC very often either because the ceilings are high and the brick exterior walls stay cool.
Poll: What is the most important quality of a house? I say it is the way the natural daylight comes in. New homes suck at this--with plans that have too much glare some places and are too dark in other places.
curtkram
Mar 11, 15 11:41 am
a roof that doesn't leak would probably be on the list, but i don't know if that's number one. not sure what i would put at the top.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 11, 15 12:15 pm
But what do you look for in a house? That is what I was getting at. A house with a roof that doesn't leak sets the standards pretty low. Like your main criteria for a girlfriend is that she has... nevermind.
Carrera
Mar 11, 15 12:31 pm
It's glass in the correct/needed places and music if you can sing.
Started my own Orchids & Onions page, here is my first entry:
Sarah Hamilton
Mar 14, 15 10:25 am
Wow. This got detailed. There is a lot of really good information here. I thank you all.
The house that was the impetus for starting this thread got a cash offer before we could see it. Still, I'll be on the lookout in the future.
What should one look for when purchasing an old home? If the owners have painted all the surfaces, how can you tell if there is underlying damage? What raises red flags in your mind? Is there a simple test to check that plumbing is adequate? What do YOU look for when you are buying, or advising someone on buying a home?
Just one thing, but most people don't think to look for this--look for adequate drainage. Is there enough fall off in the grade to get water away from the house during a rainstorm? My lot has poor drainage, the house is old (built in 1888) and the street level and alley have both risen several times since then and so there is so little fall off that it can flood the yard pretty quickly. Neither me nor the housing inspector saw this before we bought the house but it is obvious to me now. Then the neighbors 2 doors down scraped and plopped a mcmansion and changed the drainage on their lot which I think makes it even worse. We have had water in the basement twice and installed a sump, but it makes me worry everytime it rains.
Visit the house when it's raining and check the attic. Had the good fortune to have this occur by chance while visiting a place that was in the top three on the "To purchase" list.
Peeked into the attic and... drip drip drip, coming off the rafters. Who knows how long that had been like that and what it had wrought throughout the guts of the structure. Found another place. New roof and no water stains on the rafters.
look for little bubbles in the drywall paper layer. if the paper is lifting off the surface its due to moisture in the wall. even if its been painted over its usually pretty visable. also, the smell can tell alot.
i would almost expect to have to add dirt around the house.
look for bubbles in the paint. keeping in mind they were likely covering some sins, bubbles might be how those sins get telegraphed.
look for wood rot at window sills. poke the outside of the sill with a screwdriver. maybe tap the sill and try to feel whether it feels like wood or wood bondo.
look for cracks going at 45 degrees down at the bottom corner of the sills on the inside. this one would have probably been easy to cover up.
look for any bowing in concrete bock walls (or poured concrete). maybe bring along a plumb bob.
drop a marble or 2 on wood floors to see if they roll away, and maybe how fast the roll away, to see how much foundation settling there is. open and close every door in the house, including cabinet doors.
look in the attic for water damage on the roof deck. even if it isn't raining, there is a fair chance you might see dark spots. also make sure the attic is well ventilated. insulation shouldn't cover soffit vents if you have those.
for plumbing, as far as i know you just turn on the water and see if there is water pressure. you can look at the date on the water heater to get an idea of how soon you'll have to replace it.
paying one of those home inspectors for a second set of eyes is a good idea for a investment as big and important as a house where you want to live.
if there has been a lot of effort put into sealing an old house, there also has to be effort into balancing the ventilation that may not have been considered with the older mechanical systems.
^^curtkram
I second that - bring a screwdriver and stab it into anything you can.
If its an "old house" do the same in the crawlspace or basement. stab the joist and subfloors. The more difficult it is to get into the space the more likely you need to check it for dampness/moisture.
If it smells funny - you should probably worry something is wet. Look for staining. Look for vertical / 45 deg cracks
Do the doors and windows operate smoothly / as they should.
check out the yard too, you may not want to have a gigantic oak tree 15 ft. from your house
if you are in escrow, often times there is a condition in the contract that the home must be inspected for defects...Spend the money and hire your own independent inspector that can go in for half a day and really dig into the shit, $500 can save you in thousands in repairs later.
Camera the sewer lateral. Check the roofing and full HVAC system.
You are never going to find or even think about the things that a certified home inspector will look for and find in looking at a property and they will give you a full report. Items to fix, areas of wear and tear, the whole 9.
Personally, go into the crawl space and attic...you can learn a lot by checking out those areas, if you are going to be a home owner, you be in there a couple of times a year...
As a seller I don’t like inspections mainly because people use the small stuff to restructure deals & drive the price down, but as a buyer I’ve been using them mainly because I’ve become lazy….I tell sellers that the deal is contingent on the inspection but only on habitability issues, other than that they make great things-to-do-lists and saves me time getting started on the rehab. Sweat the habitability issues, the rest is just sweat equity.
zoning/permit research w/ local jurisdiction - unpermitted work? recent upgrades? was it a flipper (based on recent permits)? limitations for development (environmental, historic or design overlay)?
structure - frame is square, hardy and confidence-inspiring?
shell (waterproofing) - age of roofing? extent of eave coverage? soundness of siding? slope away around foundation?
plumbing: size of water service, age/type of piping, fixture age? well? septic?
HVAC: age & suitability of system
elect: service capacity, age/type of wiring if visible (usually only look at the box...checking outlets can be delegated to the cutthroat inspector you hire to drive down the purchase price)
design layout? design integrity? finishes intact & durable?
shitty remodels? loss of original detailing?
Sarah: since you're in Texas, you'll definitely want to look for any evidence of termite infestation - if you're not familiar with what to look for, you can access tons of good information and pictures via Google.
Also, ask the Seller (or Seller's agent) very specific questions about (a) current type of termite protection being provided, including the annual cost; and (b) whether there ever has been any termite damage to the house, when it occurred and how it was addressed. If you get vague or evasive answers, be very, very careful going forward.
Termites and foundation issues in TX. I'm working on a project in Garland, the soil is ridiculously bad with a predicted vertical movement of ~21" on our site. So look at the foundation, it's probably busted...
Look carefully for the radiator floor locations, sometimes the radiators are removed but the structural damage that occurs from decades of slow dripping or bleeding of steam and condensate is still there and you can literally fall through the floor.
Also have any insulation on pipes tested for asbestos
Also if the flooring is not all removed to the boards look out for asbestos in the floor tile glue
I one had a friend who turned down an awesome house due to asbestos siding which he could never remove due to the community health risk
Finally check to see if your future plans for the house will be hampered by ordinances and covenants that might come with a historic neighborhood or historic landmark designation.
Over and OUT
Peter N
@carrera: It is great, as a buyer, you can get a home inspected while in contract and use all the defects to drive the price down or get them repaired before you buy on the sellers dime. Flippers suck and any way you can stick it to them, the better.
Spider webs under exposed wood joists
make sure there are no ghosts
What do spiders eat and how do they catch their food? It's a real sign of an infestation..................if you see round screw heads in the sheet rock walls at where the studs are, the house if moving - slowly, eventually the paint cracks off the fastener. In general though old houses have all moved over time and are essentially settling. If it appears to be settling try to understand how it is settling, it may be a non-issue for the next 30 years or so.
Chig - Sorry, guess I don't believe that inspection reports should be punch lists used to renegotiate, matters of habitation yes, but not a sticking window. Hot button issue in the real estate trade, they get misused. Don't sell much anymore but when I did I would offer a home warranty to divert buyers from getting inspections and it worked... never afraid of an inspection just afraid of misuse. Don't like flippers either but Realtors have a saying for buyers...." buyers are liars" so I guess when it comes to buying & selling things one could say everybody is a "crook":)
All these suggestions sound good. I'd look out for flecked paint also for the amount of lead paint dust that might be around. Aslo look at the foundations for cracks and deteriorated mortar joints. And definitely get an inspection from an impartial third party.
You'll have to define "old". 1890? 1930? 1970? Construction means changed over time, thus so did the normal sorts of issues.
Another little peeve. You are buying an 'old' house. It will have issues, won't be fully current, and certainly not 'new' condition. Even new ones have issues. What you are really looking for is that those issues aren't significant enough that over time have caused significant damages. That's really the difference between new and old. New ones might still have a small water leak in the building shell, but not enough time has passed to create enough rot to manifest itself in a visible way. Old buildings have had enough time for those fungus's to eat away the wood making larger issues.
Most the eyebrow raising stuff I see is 'home owner modifications'. Notched joist to 'make room' for a new heating system, bearing walls compromised, home owner weekend project deck enclosures for a new room, basement remodels that place new structural forces upwards, etc.
Cracks over 1/8" are concerning. Hairlines are normal; Architects and inspectors tend to forget residential uses L/120 for deflection. What that means is for every 10 feet of span, the structure is designed to deflect 1". Wind loads, thermal expansion of different materials, etc. all create these minor cracks. Larger ones tend to point to a bigger issue, particularly through structural items like beams, foundation walls, etc.
Check out the Electrical Panel. Is it a 100 amp service or a 200. Is every breaker in the box used. Usually in an old house you will run into electrical wiring problems, where all the outlets are on one circuit. It was good in the old days but the demand of electrical appliances can prove to be a problem. For example, if your kitchen outlets are not on a separate circuit from you office area and you have your computer, along with wireless router, printer ect....and you flip on the microwave it is likely you will flip a breaker. We had that problem with our house even though we have a 200 amp panel with room for additional breakers. I ended up splitting off the office electrical outlets to prevent an overload which could switch off my computer, causing me to loose an un-backed up drawing.
Check the water pipes, are they Copper or galvanized pile. Better if Copper. Look at the shut offs. If there is a lot of green patina around the shut offs they most likely do not work. Sometimes you will find few if any shut offs which can also be a problem.
Have the windows been replaced. The wells of old windows are usually loaded with lead dust from the frictional use of paint grinding against paint. It is a problem if you have kids, cause usually a window sill is just about the same height as a bed and when you have a night breezed blowing thru a window and a kid is asleep they are usually getting blasted by lead.
Termites and Carpenter ants....check and check again! Those Buggers can do a lot of damage. I have been been in houses where the studs and the plaster lath is completely gone and you just have a standing layer of plaster.
Oh ya and Old fuel oil tanks are a big problem in New England. It was common practice to bury them and leave them once they started leaking. So you end up with contaminated soil, which needs to be dug up and carted off to a place where they burn soil.
Create yourself a check list and be sure you use it putting budget cost to fix problems so you have a good understanding what the true cost is of purchasing the Home of Your Dreams.
Check also to see if there are any easements crossing your property. I have seen all kinds of weird easements linked with land.
Hopefully you will know if a house has been used to cook Meth.....Breaking Bad!
"You'll have to define "old". 1890? 1930? 1970? Construction means changed over time, thus so did the normal sorts of issues."
probably the most important point noted here.
it was built in 1960
A lot of what I'm listening to is the reason that architects have trouble doing this kind of stuff - we know too much, on average stuff. Actually worse is better... bought two houses that were sliding into a river, bought a suburban building with no parking, a lot of "unbuildable" land and properties nobody could get rezoned... average people wouldn't touch this stuff and owners were out of options.....knowing a lot is a good thing, if you know how to apply it.
perhaps knowing what you're getting into is a good thing?
Waaay too much to consider - as clearly pointed out by all the thoughtful posts - not to have a serious inspection by a trusted pro. And I don't mean 'professional' home inspector, but an experienced contractor, architect or maybe (damn it!) enginerr.
It is important to go over the house with the inspector. Many of the things you find can be repaired in a few minutes after you take possession of the house. On our inspection however, which was being inhabited by a couple and their five daughters, we found an electrical wire in the basement going up to the stove frayed down to the copper. We got the wife's permission to repair it right then. At the end of the inspection we had a two-page list of items but only one of which (a brick support of the small back porch stair landing) I asked the owner to repair. The rest of the stuff I repaired afterward or just noted for future correction.
Sarah, One last thing is if the house was built in 1960 it most likely has had a roof replacement if if is asphalt fiberglass shingles. It if has a double layer of roofing and the roof is near the end of its life you may have to strip the whole roof prior to re-roofing.
The above is good advice. In the end, don't forget to be realistic. Any old house is going to have "issues". If you expect a perfectly clean report, you will be disappointed. Buildings are just like people; they deteriorate with age.
Ya... the 40-mid 70's stuff used the wonder material asbestos. Look for vinyl asbestos tile, asbestos duct wrap, and sometimes in the drywall finish like that nasty popcorn ceiling treatment. Framing will also seem a bit undersized and poorly done. Look for cracked rafters in the attic and proper bracing since it's probably stick framed versus trusses and they tended to use a lot of knotted wood.
Normal stuff will be inefficient windows and lack of insulation. Exterior walls are probably 2x4 meaning you are screwed about getting any real insulation in there. The rest maybe normal wear stuff; old heaters, valves, etc.
Watch out for aluminum wiring and galvanized plumbing. Good news is you'll probably find cast iron drain pipes and real copper if they didn't use the galv junk. There is some problematic copper though; welded seam versus extruded. Welded seam is known for developing pin hole leaks.
Thought I'd be smart on my first real old rehab and strip all the old plaster off the studs and put up drywall - did I ever get a surprise - they cut studs with axes in those days (exaggeration) had to shim every sheet.
After readng this thread nobody in their right mind would ever buy a house.
Apparently so, Sarah seems to have gone and hid in the basement.
After readng this thread nobody in their right mind would ever buy a house.
New homes are worse in a lot of ways. Basically, most defects occur at intersections, particular between trades.. With modern complex roofs and plans, there are a ton more intersections than a rectangle with a simple gable. Furthermore, back in the day, the labor pool considered this their career, therefore tended to be higher skilled. So you have more unskilled labor on residential projects than before just collecting a paycheck and swinging a hammer. The developers are also living by the philosophy of build cheap, sell high and cutting corners. They are doing massive projects; So if they make a mistake once, they will repeat it thousands of times throughout a development.
Also the materials. Chip board type products like OSB and TJI's can't handle water like solid wood. So they rot easier. Tons of exterior trims are particle board now. A lot of materials are also 'veneer' type things versus a solid and there are a ton of cheap products on the market that don't hold up well... Basically, the older buildings generally are more durable to handle the mistakes; a portico 12x12 column on a old building is real... in modern, it's trims applied over studs (which you are lucky if someone considered exterior rated and wrapped).
And one more thing, a drafty house dries out. Molds and rots are fungus's; They need water to grow. Because we are making tighter houses for energy efficiency, moisture tends to linger.
^ Exactly. The house in the thread whats wrong with this picture is a textbook demonstration of this.
I agree with mightyaa. My house is 127 years old, the things that can go wrong have already gone wrong, which are plenty, but if there was anything really wrong with it, it simply would not be here anymore. It is a simple shed with a simple gable roof and built with big sticks of wood. Because it is simple, it is adaptable and flexible and fixable. Insulation is a minus but I like knowing I'm getting plenty of fresh air! I have good solar exposure and turn the furnace off many days of the winter and just let the sun shine in. In the summer we don't need AC very often either because the ceilings are high and the brick exterior walls stay cool.
Poll: What is the most important quality of a house? I say it is the way the natural daylight comes in. New homes suck at this--with plans that have too much glare some places and are too dark in other places.
a roof that doesn't leak would probably be on the list, but i don't know if that's number one. not sure what i would put at the top.
But what do you look for in a house? That is what I was getting at. A house with a roof that doesn't leak sets the standards pretty low. Like your main criteria for a girlfriend is that she has... nevermind.
It's glass in the correct/needed places and music if you can sing.
Started my own Orchids & Onions page, here is my first entry:
Wow. This got detailed. There is a lot of really good information here. I thank you all.
The house that was the impetus for starting this thread got a cash offer before we could see it. Still, I'll be on the lookout in the future.