As a young architect, it's tough to learn how to go into interviews and learn how to sell to a client because you have to have those skills to be invited.
Chicken or the Egg.
Any ted talks or videos/blogs for tips?
quizzical
Sep 30, 14 1:56 pm
In my experience, most people develop (or hone) these sorts of skills in two ways:
a. By taking every opportunity in your day-to-day office experience to persuade other people on your team (including consultants) to adopt ideas you have about how the project design and documentation is unfolding, and
b. By taking on 'moon light' projects outside of office hours.
Some people also have found Dale Carnegie type courses to be useful.
In the end, this is the ultimate "learn by doing" exercise. If you're like me, you'll probably make tons of mistakes before you become comfortable (and confident) doing this.
Gregory Walker
Sep 30, 14 4:31 pm
I agree with quizz's observation: you just have to do it enough times (or beg to go see someone else who can do it well) before you'll figure it out. someone like bjarke obviously has become quite skilled at a young-ish age. it took me a little longer than him to be that confident.
with that said, check out this short read on Medium - it's as good as any on what not to do in a client presentation.
Veuxx
Sep 30, 14 4:50 pm
Thanks I really enjoy mike monterio's f*ck you, pay me video from San Francisco.
Thanks for the article
Carrera
Sep 30, 14 5:21 pm
Can speak to this - quizzical has it right but I would add that today you almost need to be an actor to pull anything big off. Interviews on larger work are ridiculous with firms bringing in teams of people that put on a show not an interview. Other than one-on-one I never was “interviewed” it was “here’s your stage now show me your dance”. Went up against firms that brought finished models with them rehearsing for hours with outline scripts that were memorized….taking turns exploring concepts and talking amongst each other. We of course adapted and it got so bad that I actually considered hiring a handsome actor…some do in a sense by hiring actor like marketing guys that lead the interviews like MC’s – creating an interview environment raising questions and issues then calling on one of the architects or engineers to respond/answer.
It’s no slide-show anymore and you better come bearing gifts – brought orchids for each on a horticultural project – leather note pads with expensive mechanical pencils – brought food & drink – embroidered lab coats – hard hats - all variety of things and none of it better be cheap. Then start the show and you better show at least 10 comp examples of exactly what they are planning – then hope the one matches exactly to their dream – then move to a full demonstration of the SD’s and show them visually on boards with sharpies how you are going to solve each of the design problems – that’s what an interview is and after all that and more – and $10k later – maybe, maybe you’ll get the job. 1:10 was the best I could do.
Veuxx
Sep 30, 14 6:36 pm
Carerra thanks for the comment but do you have any advice how to learn the skill as a young architect?
The bitter rant although true doesn't really help me.
Thanks again for your thoughts though.
quizzical
Sep 30, 14 6:50 pm
Veuxx - while I get the "bitter rant" comment, I think Carerra is trying to convey that selling skills no longer are a one-on-one endeavor, especially for large projects. The value in Carrerra's comments relate to the need for developing much broader, and sophisticated, selling skills than the simple "personal selling" approaches that were sufficient in the past.
Miles Jaffe
Sep 30, 14 8:24 pm
You call that a bitter rant? LOL
After a few decades in this 'profession' that's as optimistic an observation as you're likely to get.
Carrera
Sep 30, 14 8:44 pm
Reality is a “bitter rant” – thanks quizzical - it’s not about “you” anymore it’s a “show” and being an actor doesn’t hurt. If it’s one-on-one it will be an “interview” but if more – it’s “ShowTime”!
Just starting out and on small stuff - I said quizzical had it right no point in repeating. I might add that most architects are shy (I was) and finding ways to overcome that will pay off in spades. Dale Carnegie is an excellent suggestion – doing readings in church – teaching are all good ways.
Another critical factor in our business, at any level, is learning how to sell yourself and your ideas. That is learned as said by repetition - trial and error but the biggest piece of advice I can give is to be enthusiastic and excited about what you are offering – it rubs off. Also get over being humble when interviewing and “blow-your-own-horn”. Had a graphic designer I interviewed once say to me “the reason you need to hire me is because I’m a pro’ – and I did.
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 5, 14 7:20 am
This is a good thread that needs to keep going.
gruen
Oct 5, 14 11:02 am
I've realized you need to sell yourself many times-for example, to get the job in the first place and then, to get your design accepted...
Carrera
Oct 5, 14 11:16 am
B3tadine[sutures], getting work is called “Rain making” and it is a complicated subject but there are books that can help most specifically “Rain Making – Ford Harding” – it’s not architect specific but very good, another by Jeffery Fox. Brian Richardson has one specific to architects. The one I like lately is “Selling Architectural Ideas – Tom Porter” – it explores the substitution of the words “communication” & “presentation” with the word “Selling”…..good read for an architect learning how to sell ideas through work product - is a good way to learn. Changing to that word in my head was the biggest help to me. I always spoke “Client” & “Marketing” but I only thought “Customer” & “Selling”. When I did that I got away from the soft-sell onto hard-sell and I sold more from then on. For me personally I modeled my pitch around the methods used in selling cars – I wasn’t sleazy about it but I: “Didn’t let people out of the dealership”, “Sought & answered The Objection”, “Asked for the order” and “Closed the deal” – thinking like that brought me out from behind the curtain and delivered the boldness people actually expect.
Miles Jaffe
Oct 5, 14 11:36 am
Psychology classes would probably help with sales in the residential market. Commercial is all about dough.
Larchinect
Oct 6, 14 12:12 pm
Wow, this is the kind of thread that should be happening more on archinect.
As a 'young-ish' self employed landscape architect I struggle with selling every day. Ive probably allowed myself to slip too far into the role of the 'quiet creative type' and allowed that to become my story because salsemanship is painfully uncomfortable for me.
What ive noticed most lately is the thin line I tend to walk between selling the client on my specific skill set versus the entire profession.
Being small, we have been getting smallish projects--spec homes, the occasional park master plan, some small commercial site planning. Some of the work has come through colleagues, architects, and other design pros, while at least 25 percent has come directly from a client-owner. The client owners call us, but then I find myself doing an abbreviated ccourse in landscape architecture 101. We have to prove why they called us, its strange and often awkward. It doesnt help that I have what feels like the worlds worst case of public speaking phobia, which Iis a compounding factor.
As a young architect, it's tough to learn how to go into interviews and learn how to sell to a client because you have to have those skills to be invited.
Chicken or the Egg.
Any ted talks or videos/blogs for tips?
In my experience, most people develop (or hone) these sorts of skills in two ways:
a. By taking every opportunity in your day-to-day office experience to persuade other people on your team (including consultants) to adopt ideas you have about how the project design and documentation is unfolding, and
b. By taking on 'moon light' projects outside of office hours.
Some people also have found Dale Carnegie type courses to be useful.
In the end, this is the ultimate "learn by doing" exercise. If you're like me, you'll probably make tons of mistakes before you become comfortable (and confident) doing this.
I agree with quizz's observation: you just have to do it enough times (or beg to go see someone else who can do it well) before you'll figure it out. someone like bjarke obviously has become quite skilled at a young-ish age. it took me a little longer than him to be that confident.
with that said, check out this short read on Medium - it's as good as any on what not to do in a client presentation.
Thanks I really enjoy mike monterio's f*ck you, pay me video from San Francisco.
Thanks for the article
Can speak to this - quizzical has it right but I would add that today you almost need to be an actor to pull anything big off. Interviews on larger work are ridiculous with firms bringing in teams of people that put on a show not an interview. Other than one-on-one I never was “interviewed” it was “here’s your stage now show me your dance”. Went up against firms that brought finished models with them rehearsing for hours with outline scripts that were memorized….taking turns exploring concepts and talking amongst each other. We of course adapted and it got so bad that I actually considered hiring a handsome actor…some do in a sense by hiring actor like marketing guys that lead the interviews like MC’s – creating an interview environment raising questions and issues then calling on one of the architects or engineers to respond/answer.
It’s no slide-show anymore and you better come bearing gifts – brought orchids for each on a horticultural project – leather note pads with expensive mechanical pencils – brought food & drink – embroidered lab coats – hard hats - all variety of things and none of it better be cheap. Then start the show and you better show at least 10 comp examples of exactly what they are planning – then hope the one matches exactly to their dream – then move to a full demonstration of the SD’s and show them visually on boards with sharpies how you are going to solve each of the design problems – that’s what an interview is and after all that and more – and $10k later – maybe, maybe you’ll get the job. 1:10 was the best I could do.
Carerra thanks for the comment but do you have any advice how to learn the skill as a young architect?
The bitter rant although true doesn't really help me.
Thanks again for your thoughts though.
Veuxx - while I get the "bitter rant" comment, I think Carerra is trying to convey that selling skills no longer are a one-on-one endeavor, especially for large projects. The value in Carrerra's comments relate to the need for developing much broader, and sophisticated, selling skills than the simple "personal selling" approaches that were sufficient in the past.
You call that a bitter rant? LOL
After a few decades in this 'profession' that's as optimistic an observation as you're likely to get.
Reality is a “bitter rant” – thanks quizzical - it’s not about “you” anymore it’s a “show” and being an actor doesn’t hurt. If it’s one-on-one it will be an “interview” but if more – it’s “ShowTime”!
Just starting out and on small stuff - I said quizzical had it right no point in repeating. I might add that most architects are shy (I was) and finding ways to overcome that will pay off in spades. Dale Carnegie is an excellent suggestion – doing readings in church – teaching are all good ways.
Another critical factor in our business, at any level, is learning how to sell yourself and your ideas. That is learned as said by repetition - trial and error but the biggest piece of advice I can give is to be enthusiastic and excited about what you are offering – it rubs off. Also get over being humble when interviewing and “blow-your-own-horn”. Had a graphic designer I interviewed once say to me “the reason you need to hire me is because I’m a pro’ – and I did.
This is a good thread that needs to keep going.
I've realized you need to sell yourself many times-for example, to get the job in the first place and then, to get your design accepted...
B3tadine[sutures], getting work is called “Rain making” and it is a complicated subject but there are books that can help most specifically “Rain Making – Ford Harding” – it’s not architect specific but very good, another by Jeffery Fox. Brian Richardson has one specific to architects. The one I like lately is “Selling Architectural Ideas – Tom Porter” – it explores the substitution of the words “communication” & “presentation” with the word “Selling”…..good read for an architect learning how to sell ideas through work product - is a good way to learn. Changing to that word in my head was the biggest help to me. I always spoke “Client” & “Marketing” but I only thought “Customer” & “Selling”. When I did that I got away from the soft-sell onto hard-sell and I sold more from then on. For me personally I modeled my pitch around the methods used in selling cars – I wasn’t sleazy about it but I: “Didn’t let people out of the dealership”, “Sought & answered The Objection”, “Asked for the order” and “Closed the deal” – thinking like that brought me out from behind the curtain and delivered the boldness people actually expect.
Psychology classes would probably help with sales in the residential market. Commercial is all about dough.
Wow, this is the kind of thread that should be happening more on archinect.
As a 'young-ish' self employed landscape architect I struggle with selling every day. Ive probably allowed myself to slip too far into the role of the 'quiet creative type' and allowed that to become my story because salsemanship is painfully uncomfortable for me.
What ive noticed most lately is the thin line I tend to walk between selling the client on my specific skill set versus the entire profession.
Being small, we have been getting smallish projects--spec homes, the occasional park master plan, some small commercial site planning. Some of the work has come through colleagues, architects, and other design pros, while at least 25 percent has come directly from a client-owner. The client owners call us, but then I find myself doing an abbreviated ccourse in landscape architecture 101. We have to prove why they called us, its strange and often awkward. It doesnt help that I have what feels like the worlds worst case of public speaking phobia, which Iis a compounding factor.