A fit of pique, or an act of heroism? Bit of both?
Rusty!
Mar 25, 11 1:35 am
Damn.
You let the French drop a few bombs on Africa, and next thing you have is Roche's testicles in your cereal bowl.
Maybe Frankie misplaced his green crayons?
In any case. It's not a tantrum. He said so himself in "Shakespearean mayonnaise".
Any arrogant, ignorant Sci-Arc staffer want to add to this story?
St. George's Fields
Mar 25, 11 2:07 am
"Architecture is mainly an affair of resistance and self-defense."
I just rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself vertigo and then vomited.
larslarson
Mar 25, 11 3:18 am
reading that was almost as annoying as their website...
el jeffe
Mar 25, 11 10:47 am
"your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberry."
"is there someone else we could talk to?"
Frit
Mar 25, 11 11:10 am
Sci-Arc clearly dodged a bullet with this guy. That lecture would have been unintelligible anyway.
Henry Miller
Mar 25, 11 11:22 am
He's taking his cues from Odd Future.
Steven Ward
Mar 25, 11 11:26 am
it's at least as readable as the published writings.
Mar 25, 11 11:31 am
What?! Sci-arc students have a pool? Really? My school didn't even have a student lounge unless you count the vending machine.
spaceman
Mar 25, 11 11:57 am
I imagine that this is really about SCI-Arc not wanting to pay for his poodle to fly first class.
Hawkin
Mar 25, 11 11:58 am
I still don't understand it... which is the reason they cancelled the lecture?
Is Sci-Arc mixed with Gaddafi as well? (remember, his son bought his PhD at the London School of Economics).
job job
Mar 25, 11 2:31 pm
I misread the environment - it's a rochattack!. I like the work of R&Sie, and barbed letters like these are sometimes necessary, in the same spirit of Voltaire.
That film school sci-arc is got to be feeling overly traditional and out of touch...
Go Roche.
syp
Mar 25, 11 4:06 pm
"Our works and attitudes are toxic, animal, dangerous, regressive, politic and computational."
What a nonsense of series of adjectives!!!
How can something or some one be toxic, animal, dangerous and at the same time regressive, politic and computational?
Aren't the characters, regressive, politic and computational, only applied to human being but not to animal?
I would like to see any animal that is regressive, politic and computational.
Smokety Mc Smoke Smoke
Mar 25, 11 4:08 pm
It's a Google Translate™ manifesto.
Rusty!
Mar 25, 11 4:13 pm
"It's a Google Translate™ manifesto."
WIN!
c.k.
Mar 26, 11 6:21 pm
all good, he would have just tried to hypnotize them.
not_here
Mar 27, 11 9:36 am
"Our works and attitudes are toxic, animal, dangerous, regressive, politic and computational."
lol i did giggle.
and i think i have a brain tumor now.
ichweiB
Mar 27, 11 10:49 am
I understood that letter about as much as I understood him in my review two years ago-which means I still have no clue.
aml
Mar 27, 11 2:36 pm
note the only words in french are misspelled.
job job
Mar 27, 11 2:49 pm
do architects have to be good writers to polemicize their work?
are we seeing a trend of practitioners with phd's? I can think of a few, but they are singular, and not a model - I don't even think they are both at the same time.
Janosh
Mar 27, 11 3:44 pm
It does seem that an increasing fraction of the increasingly small fraction of the profession that pursues "architecture as art" are now starting to carry doctoral credentials after their names. But with the so-called crisis in architectural theory rendering complicated polemics about form increasingly irrelevant, I wonder to what end?
syp
Mar 27, 11 3:52 pm
"do architects have to be good writers to polemicize their work?"
I agree with you. Architects don't need to be a good writer.
However, I don't think he is a practitioner either.
Moreover, if he is a theorist. the more critical issue here is not about being a good writer but about how well he is understanding the contemporary as a theorist.
Unlike many people's prejudice, contemporary philosophies are really rigor and consistent. Only the reason that people think contemporary philosophies are "capricious" is because they don't have comprehensive understanding about that.
The reason I brought the issue about "non-sense of series of adjectives" is to show how superficial his understanding about contemporary philosophies is.
syp
Mar 27, 11 3:57 pm
I think some architect's being theoretical is good for the whole architecture to achieve professional depths.
But, if they are going to insist on being a theorist they have to be good enough at theory and philosophy and need to stop being pretentious.
elinor
Mar 27, 11 7:07 pm
i think it's possible to take a theoretical position through design. roche has done enough interesting, coherent-enough design proposals that i'm almost willing to forgive his gobbledygook, even though it drives me nuts.
it seems to me that this 'dispute' is just another academic provocation, though...
mespellrong
Mar 27, 11 7:54 pm
I'm sure it just has something to do with insurance.
A W
Mar 28, 11 7:05 pm
What passes for "theory" in Architecture is really just ideology.
Please don't confuse the two. :-)
SDR
Mar 28, 11 8:18 pm
Desalienate ? Maybe that has something to do with the pool . . .
Mission St.
Mar 30, 11 1:18 am
I'm only here for the mayonnaise.
Didn't this dude lecture at sci-arc... maybe 5-6 years ago? I distinctly remember some skinny french dude dressed in black who was lecturing/presenting all this maya/blob stuff. Seemed to fit right in with what was going on at sci-arc. Hernan did the intro... I think. Whatever, he didn't seem like that much of a bad-ass at the time.
Anyway, it's good controversy (even if it's not clear just what the hell is being controverted), no doubt both sci-arc and r&sie could use the publicity.
Fuck it, instead of a lecture, they should have a debate! R&Sie dude plus a couple of his homies vs. .... well E.O.M. (of course) and... i dunno Juan Azulay? and Ed Keller? (I have no idea if they'd agree or disagree because I still don't have a clue what R&Sie's beef is... maybe they'd all agree on everything and then hug and kiss).
Priority 1: somebody decipher that letter!
Mission St.
Mar 30, 11 1:27 am
here: +33(0)142060669
somebody who speaks french (and archi-babble) call that dude and get the story. report back!
something else is going on, Roche posts that letter then walk down the street to teach at USC, which some would say is a wannabe sci-arc. i wouldnt route for him.
job job
Apr 15, 11 11:38 pm
Mission St,Thanks for that link - Peter Cook has always been refreshing for his frank assessments. To one particularly nasty juror (KR). 'You've fucked up this review, so why don't you fuck off"
Mission St.
Sep 30, 16 3:44 am
5.5 years later. That link to the Peter Cook comment seems broken somehow.
A fit of pique, or an act of heroism? Bit of both?
Damn.
You let the French drop a few bombs on Africa, and next thing you have is Roche's testicles in your cereal bowl.
Maybe Frankie misplaced his green crayons?
In any case. It's not a tantrum. He said so himself in "Shakespearean mayonnaise".
Any arrogant, ignorant Sci-Arc staffer want to add to this story?
I just rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself vertigo and then vomited.
reading that was almost as annoying as their website...
"your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberry."
"is there someone else we could talk to?"
Sci-Arc clearly dodged a bullet with this guy. That lecture would have been unintelligible anyway.
He's taking his cues from Odd Future.
it's at least as readable as the published writings.
What?! Sci-arc students have a pool? Really? My school didn't even have a student lounge unless you count the vending machine.
I imagine that this is really about SCI-Arc not wanting to pay for his poodle to fly first class.
I still don't understand it... which is the reason they cancelled the lecture?
Is Sci-Arc mixed with Gaddafi as well? (remember, his son bought his PhD at the London School of Economics).
I misread the environment - it's a rochattack!. I like the work of R&Sie, and barbed letters like these are sometimes necessary, in the same spirit of Voltaire.
You may remember his criticisms of the French architectural scene: http://www.new-territories.com/vous%20avez%20dit.htm
http://www.new-territories.com/pav%20Suisse.htm
That film school sci-arc is got to be feeling overly traditional and out of touch...
Go Roche.
"Our works and attitudes are toxic, animal, dangerous, regressive, politic and computational."
What a nonsense of series of adjectives!!!
How can something or some one be toxic, animal, dangerous and at the same time regressive, politic and computational?
Aren't the characters, regressive, politic and computational, only applied to human being but not to animal?
I would like to see any animal that is regressive, politic and computational.
It's a Google Translate™ manifesto.
WIN!
all good, he would have just tried to hypnotize them.
"Our works and attitudes are toxic, animal, dangerous, regressive, politic and computational."
lol i did giggle.
and i think i have a brain tumor now.
I understood that letter about as much as I understood him in my review two years ago-which means I still have no clue.
note the only words in french are misspelled.
do architects have to be good writers to polemicize their work?
are we seeing a trend of practitioners with phd's? I can think of a few, but they are singular, and not a model - I don't even think they are both at the same time.
It does seem that an increasing fraction of the increasingly small fraction of the profession that pursues "architecture as art" are now starting to carry doctoral credentials after their names. But with the so-called crisis in architectural theory rendering complicated polemics about form increasingly irrelevant, I wonder to what end?
"do architects have to be good writers to polemicize their work?"
I agree with you. Architects don't need to be a good writer.
However, I don't think he is a practitioner either.
Moreover, if he is a theorist. the more critical issue here is not about being a good writer but about how well he is understanding the contemporary as a theorist.
Unlike many people's prejudice, contemporary philosophies are really rigor and consistent. Only the reason that people think contemporary philosophies are "capricious" is because they don't have comprehensive understanding about that.
The reason I brought the issue about "non-sense of series of adjectives" is to show how superficial his understanding about contemporary philosophies is.
I think some architect's being theoretical is good for the whole architecture to achieve professional depths.
But, if they are going to insist on being a theorist they have to be good enough at theory and philosophy and need to stop being pretentious.
i think it's possible to take a theoretical position through design. roche has done enough interesting, coherent-enough design proposals that i'm almost willing to forgive his gobbledygook, even though it drives me nuts.
it seems to me that this 'dispute' is just another academic provocation, though...
I'm sure it just has something to do with insurance.
What passes for "theory" in Architecture is really just ideology.
Please don't confuse the two. :-)
Desalienate ? Maybe that has something to do with the pool . . .
I'm only here for the mayonnaise.
Didn't this dude lecture at sci-arc... maybe 5-6 years ago? I distinctly remember some skinny french dude dressed in black who was lecturing/presenting all this maya/blob stuff. Seemed to fit right in with what was going on at sci-arc. Hernan did the intro... I think. Whatever, he didn't seem like that much of a bad-ass at the time.
Anyway, it's good controversy (even if it's not clear just what the hell is being controverted), no doubt both sci-arc and r&sie could use the publicity.
Fuck it, instead of a lecture, they should have a debate! R&Sie dude plus a couple of his homies vs. .... well E.O.M. (of course) and... i dunno Juan Azulay? and Ed Keller? (I have no idea if they'd agree or disagree because I still don't have a clue what R&Sie's beef is... maybe they'd all agree on everything and then hug and kiss).
Priority 1: somebody decipher that letter!
here: +33(0)142060669
somebody who speaks french (and archi-babble) call that dude and get the story. report back!
they call me "thread-killer"...
No, really. How did this excellent thread peter out?
Speaking of peter, here's some more food for thought (fuel for the fire) from Sir P.Cook himself: http://thefunambulist.net/2011/03/24/politics-francois-roche-cancels-at-sci-arc-manifesto-for-speculative-laboratories/#comment-378
something else is going on, Roche posts that letter then walk down the street to teach at USC, which some would say is a wannabe sci-arc. i wouldnt route for him.
Mission St,Thanks for that link - Peter Cook has always been refreshing for his frank assessments. To one particularly nasty juror (KR). 'You've fucked up this review, so why don't you fuck off"
5.5 years later. That link to the Peter Cook comment seems broken somehow.
snapshot: https://web.archive.org/web/20150318062946/http://thefunambulist.net/2011/03/24/politics-francois-roche-cancels-at-sci-arc-manifesto-for-speculative-laboratories/