The firm I am currently working for uses the cloud for all of the computing, so we have virtual machines. Instead of a personal computer under my desk humming away we have a modem and monitors and some far off computer in a server in some other city.
We have several problems;
first we have system crashes because there are three servers and 500 plus miles between us and the virtual machines and they often break down and crash, fire walls, servers overheating, internet connectivity lagging or being interrupted
Then we have the problem of having one machine for Revit and one machine for Photoshop and another for other programs, so if you are creating a presentation and you need Photoshop you have to log off the Revit and log on to a graphics machine.
Then we have the problems of rendering and running out of ram when working on large projects and this crippling 10-15 other users of the same computer that host the virtual machines.
I think in my opinion cloud computing is not a good strategy for design firms where heavy computing power and reliable service is needed. we lost on average 12 hours a month to IT failures and network disruptions per person.
is anyone else suffering under the cloud?
curtkram
Jul 17, 14 4:58 pm
The cloud is great and useful if used right. File sharing, remote access and remote backups are all great. Virtual machines are probably not that useful in most cases.
gwharton
Jul 17, 14 5:31 pm
Aside from all the problems you list, trusting critical proprietary data and processing to a third party is extremely foolish. Cloud computing is being pushed very hard by the software industry (because it gives them a perpetual income stream and puts them in control of your data and software directly), but it doesn't actually make a lot of sense from a user standpoint. If you really need to have access to your data from multiple locations, get decent laptops and implement a robust VPN solution based on your own secure servers.
Volunteer
Jul 18, 14 8:53 pm
GL, That is not a bad idea, glad you had the courage to bring it up - stand by for the brickbats. There also seems to be a certain erie sterility to buildings designed on the computer. Maybe it's just me.
accesskb
Jul 18, 14 11:42 pm
Like we don't have enough to fry our brains over with already... The last thing I need is to learn how to work with cloud and problem solve when I run into problems during deadlines. Even with software, I only jump to it until I absolutely need it. In the time it takes to open a software and set things up, I can usually finish what I need to do with a piece of pen and paper.
jon ammer
Jul 21, 14 8:11 am
Graduated Licensure
concur 100% on quality of finished work pre computers , and the whole software revenue stream and its negative effect on young architects salaries. revit cost 10k per seat . that should be billed to the client but is being taken from employee salaries which have been stagnate for a decade now .
accesskb - concur also. how many more new technologies and processes and hoops must we keep track of. Seems like theres new software to be learned every day . Information overload
Nam Henderson
Jul 21, 14 10:44 pm
gwharton re: this "If you really need to have access to your data from multiple locations, get decent laptops and implement a robust VPN solution based on your own secure servers" agree totally. This is how i spend a majority of the day working across from various locations/buildings across the campus or even when home etc... Some teams are exploring other cloud/virtual VM options but i prefer simple RDP/VPN solution.
poop876
Jul 22, 14 11:04 am
Peter,
what cloud service are you using?
Peter Normand
Jul 28, 14 9:54 am
The cloud is Citrix but I think we tweak it in house a bit so it may not be the all of the problem. It has been attributed to a loss retention problem among employees 90% citing it in exit interviews as a serious problem.
This came up in a heated discussion when we had on of those O shit meetings at work wen we learned that a whole studio is leaving the firm.
Nam Henderson
Jul 29, 14 7:39 pm
a "whole studio" dam!
Jul 29, 14 9:06 pm
I am not too concerned with the electrical grid other than food (which we have electric generator to supply power to refrigerator.
I can do things by hand with a drafting board. The grid isn't as crucial other than it may cause some disruption on ordering supplies an is tends to take down the telephone services when there is a longer duration outage. Unusually severe weather with a longer duration will inherently be disruptive. However, once good weather returns, I can usually get back to working. However, projects that I start in using computers will be the ones that will be most effected by such a disruption. For projects where I do not need to involve engineers, I may do the project entirely by drafting and cyanotype blueprinting which I can use the sun or sunlight for the exposure. However, I would need water supply in order to have water for the development process. I may have some bottles pre-bottled up to have a supply already to provide temporary resilience. It is still what it is. I can still do things without electricity if I needed to.
It also means that I don't have to constantly worry about whatever is the new fad on software every 18 months to produce architecture because architecture is not the software. I know doing things without computers might not be 'competitive' in the mental perception that is going around. Sure, it makes collaborating with engineers more challenging but it means I don't rely on engineers as much or do things that requires them. After all, I can do the structural calcs. As far as things go, I am more than capable of calculating beams and joists and columns and so forth as well as foundation design if I do not over-complicate the structural members themselves.
99% of houses and around 95% of all other building types designed today can easily be designed and drafted without using CAD or BIM tools.
As for cloud, that terminology is not consistent. A typical cloud setup is what used to be called distributive computing using the internet or WAN (Wide area network). We might call that WAN or Internet wide distributed computing. What is described above isn't really cloud so much as a remote server services or essentially you are connecting a dumb terminal to a remote mainframe... basically the 1950s mainframe concept using modern internet technologies to do so.
It isn't really a "cloud" as the buzzword was coined and defined as.
Technical misuse of terminology there.
That is besides the point. Anyway, in this age of confusing misuse of terms that in itself isn't really a technical terminology in the first place, it is understandable.
As for not being as deeply connected to the grid, it is possible to have resilience and still be able to work even if there is electrical service disruption that is relatively short. Few hours, a few days.... okay. Several weeks maybe a challenge as it may effect existing food supply.
I know how to design and hand draft without CAD/BIM. The biggest disruption would come from not having access to internet to research products from product suppliers. However, I don't need computers to produce construction documents.
Jul 29, 14 9:28 pm
In a long term disruptions, things can be a bit more problematic. It would require operating on getting supplies by mail ordering literally by written mail and banking would be a challenge. Things would get messy for sure.
Disruption from Paypal processing would be a bit of a challenge but power generation setup would be needed to get the computer data records onto print out and to re-update databases. It is possible and banks have procedures for doing this in short term but they would have to do this under a long term procedure.
I can see how things would get a bit more problematic in that sense.
The firm I am currently working for uses the cloud for all of the computing, so we have virtual machines. Instead of a personal computer under my desk humming away we have a modem and monitors and some far off computer in a server in some other city.
We have several problems;
first we have system crashes because there are three servers and 500 plus miles between us and the virtual machines and they often break down and crash, fire walls, servers overheating, internet connectivity lagging or being interrupted
Then we have the problem of having one machine for Revit and one machine for Photoshop and another for other programs, so if you are creating a presentation and you need Photoshop you have to log off the Revit and log on to a graphics machine.
Then we have the problems of rendering and running out of ram when working on large projects and this crippling 10-15 other users of the same computer that host the virtual machines.
I think in my opinion cloud computing is not a good strategy for design firms where heavy computing power and reliable service is needed. we lost on average 12 hours a month to IT failures and network disruptions per person.
is anyone else suffering under the cloud?
The cloud is great and useful if used right. File sharing, remote access and remote backups are all great. Virtual machines are probably not that useful in most cases.
Aside from all the problems you list, trusting critical proprietary data and processing to a third party is extremely foolish. Cloud computing is being pushed very hard by the software industry (because it gives them a perpetual income stream and puts them in control of your data and software directly), but it doesn't actually make a lot of sense from a user standpoint. If you really need to have access to your data from multiple locations, get decent laptops and implement a robust VPN solution based on your own secure servers.
GL, That is not a bad idea, glad you had the courage to bring it up - stand by for the brickbats. There also seems to be a certain erie sterility to buildings designed on the computer. Maybe it's just me.
Like we don't have enough to fry our brains over with already... The last thing I need is to learn how to work with cloud and problem solve when I run into problems during deadlines. Even with software, I only jump to it until I absolutely need it. In the time it takes to open a software and set things up, I can usually finish what I need to do with a piece of pen and paper.
Graduated Licensure
concur 100% on quality of finished work pre computers , and the whole software revenue stream and its negative effect on young architects salaries. revit cost 10k per seat . that should be billed to the client but is being taken from employee salaries which have been stagnate for a decade now .
accesskb - concur also. how many more new technologies and processes and hoops must we keep track of. Seems like theres new software to be learned every day . Information overload
gwharton re: this "If you really need to have access to your data from multiple locations, get decent laptops and implement a robust VPN solution based on your own secure servers" agree totally. This is how i spend a majority of the day working across from various locations/buildings across the campus or even when home etc... Some teams are exploring other cloud/virtual VM options but i prefer simple RDP/VPN solution.
Peter,
what cloud service are you using?
The cloud is Citrix but I think we tweak it in house a bit so it may not be the all of the problem. It has been attributed to a loss retention problem among employees 90% citing it in exit interviews as a serious problem.
This came up in a heated discussion when we had on of those O shit meetings at work wen we learned that a whole studio is leaving the firm.
a "whole studio" dam!
I am not too concerned with the electrical grid other than food (which we have electric generator to supply power to refrigerator.
I can do things by hand with a drafting board. The grid isn't as crucial other than it may cause some disruption on ordering supplies an is tends to take down the telephone services when there is a longer duration outage. Unusually severe weather with a longer duration will inherently be disruptive. However, once good weather returns, I can usually get back to working. However, projects that I start in using computers will be the ones that will be most effected by such a disruption. For projects where I do not need to involve engineers, I may do the project entirely by drafting and cyanotype blueprinting which I can use the sun or sunlight for the exposure. However, I would need water supply in order to have water for the development process. I may have some bottles pre-bottled up to have a supply already to provide temporary resilience. It is still what it is. I can still do things without electricity if I needed to.
It also means that I don't have to constantly worry about whatever is the new fad on software every 18 months to produce architecture because architecture is not the software. I know doing things without computers might not be 'competitive' in the mental perception that is going around. Sure, it makes collaborating with engineers more challenging but it means I don't rely on engineers as much or do things that requires them. After all, I can do the structural calcs. As far as things go, I am more than capable of calculating beams and joists and columns and so forth as well as foundation design if I do not over-complicate the structural members themselves.
99% of houses and around 95% of all other building types designed today can easily be designed and drafted without using CAD or BIM tools.
As for cloud, that terminology is not consistent. A typical cloud setup is what used to be called distributive computing using the internet or WAN (Wide area network). We might call that WAN or Internet wide distributed computing. What is described above isn't really cloud so much as a remote server services or essentially you are connecting a dumb terminal to a remote mainframe... basically the 1950s mainframe concept using modern internet technologies to do so.
It isn't really a "cloud" as the buzzword was coined and defined as.
Technical misuse of terminology there.
That is besides the point. Anyway, in this age of confusing misuse of terms that in itself isn't really a technical terminology in the first place, it is understandable.
As for not being as deeply connected to the grid, it is possible to have resilience and still be able to work even if there is electrical service disruption that is relatively short. Few hours, a few days.... okay. Several weeks maybe a challenge as it may effect existing food supply.
I know how to design and hand draft without CAD/BIM. The biggest disruption would come from not having access to internet to research products from product suppliers. However, I don't need computers to produce construction documents.
In a long term disruptions, things can be a bit more problematic. It would require operating on getting supplies by mail ordering literally by written mail and banking would be a challenge. Things would get messy for sure.
Disruption from Paypal processing would be a bit of a challenge but power generation setup would be needed to get the computer data records onto print out and to re-update databases. It is possible and banks have procedures for doing this in short term but they would have to do this under a long term procedure.
I can see how things would get a bit more problematic in that sense.