We're going to develop a new salary poll that will provide filtered searches and sorting options. I would like to open up this discussion to suggestions and comments regarding this new salary poll. To maintain focus, off-topic comments may be deleted.

Thanks, in advance, for your feedback. We're looking forward to your suggestions to help build a more helpful salary poll.

The existing salary poll can be viewed here

I think a few archinecters mentioned before of a salary poll graph that could show growth based on experience, degree, license, location etc.

this new archinect salary poll sounds great! thanks a lot paul!

I just wanted to send in another request for some kind of graph or chart that organizes the data.

i'm sure you've seen this site...

http://insidearch.org/

it just needs more frequent love and care, but I check here all the time... (not that i need a job)

but i'm not sure how archinecters would feel about filling out a survey...

Suggestions for sorting categories:

1. Licensure
2. Years at firm
3. Years experience (total)
4. Degree (none; BA/BS; BArch; MA/MS; MArch; PhD)
5. Firm size
6. Firm type

Oh, and while I'm making wishes: can you delete off-topic posts in ALL threads?

benefits would be another category to survey

An easy way to filter out the American wages so that I can see what my British chums are making

More suggestions:

- school(s) attended
- international experience if any
- job title or position held
- Age
- gender
- employed or freelance
- number of firms one has worked at

Type of clients, i.e. corporate retail, hospitality, k-12 education, higher ed, single family residential, etc.

Avg weekly hours worked, ie. part time, 40, 50, etc.

Overtime compensation, i.e. 1.5x hourly, comp time, bonus, nothing, etc.

it seems like some of these items would lend themselves to becoming a data field, along with Age, Location, Gender etc:

School Attended
Add'l school
Job Title
Years of Experience
Number of Firms one has worked at...


also, in lieu of an "other" option on type of workplace, could there be the option to write in the type of workplace? if not, expanding the existing list may be useful...

this sounds great...i do think that Location is KEY...i tend to scroll around to find my city!

I have grave concerns about the integrity of the data in a voluntary, on-line poll of this nature ... what's to prevent people from just entering bogus data to skew the results and give themselves more leverage in negotiating with employers.

I was involved peripherally in the design and implementation of the 2005 aia compensation survey ... i know how that data was collected and how it was validated. Knowing that, I have confidence in the results.

While I support the idea of archinect having its own survey as well (the more data the merrier) I think you need to find a way to make sure this is more scientific and credible than the sort of opinion surveys one sees in USA Today and AOL. Otherwise, you'll just be wasting your time and adding more confusion to the marketplace.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. We will have graphs, so it's not necessary to post any more comments suggesting that, unless you want specific types of graphs (age/salary, location/salary, etc.)

postal - I didn't initially think that the salary poll was going to be so popular but over 2,300 submissions and countess emails requesting more features proved me wrong.

quiizzical - You bring up a good point, but the Archinect survey relies on honesty and will never be considered "official". It's meant to be a general overview for interest sake, for Archinect readers, by Archinect readers. Another big difference is that it's free (AIA's survey is $175). We have and will continue to moderate the submissions, so entries that are obviously fake will not be approved. To date, most of the submission seem valid... and I can't understand why someone would lie, anonymously, when this won't be a negotiating tool with employers. We will have a simple system created to avoid duplicate entries. I don't know how it would be possible to compile completely verified salary information other than by going through tax information and attaching salary figures to personal information... and this would be incredibly time consuming and hardly feasibly. How did the AIA collect it's salary data? If they asked employers, what's to stop the employers from skewing the answers to benefit themselves?

I think it would be good to get a sense of what people are being billed out for versus what they're being paid. If you were looking at a particular city and you consistently saw people reporting making $15/hour and being billed at $75/hour, that might indicate an oversupply of people qualified for your position.

It would also be good if people could indicate what percentage of their average weekly work hours they spend doing billable work.

here's whats totally irrelevant. where u went to school. mr. architect isn't going to pay mr. ivy any more than ms. state school if each of them are bringing the same skills to the table. also, age doesnt matter much either. if mr. x went to architecture school right out of high skool and ms. y waited and went went she was twenty five, each would be worth the same to the employer. now ms. y may be able to negotiate a bit more, maybe not.
if one is entry level in tacoma, they will be paid what an entry level person makes in tacoma, whether they went to tacoma tech or hahvahd.
most people on this site, probably have no idea what the person sitting in the next cubicle makes, so i dont see what a salary poll tells you other than its really going to be tough to live in nyc for this. and wow i am surprised architects make so little. aren't they like doctors???

now, my idea, and please don't delete it! is that archinect should track specific individuals. get some guinea pigs, er uh volunteers. you need five entry level interns, five mid level interns, five newly minted registered architects etc, and track their progress over the long term through this career. not only would it be informative, it would be scientific.

I think the entries should expire after a while, or have a date linked to them. No use looking at old data.

Keep the ability to enter whatever you want as "other", I like the comments like "Boss is an ass though" or "Cool place to work" - it adds realness and makes the #'s easier to sort in the mind.

Thanks for the effort archinect team.

vado retro

about: where one went to school - What about if someone wants to know how much his classmates or former graduates of his/her school are making and where they're located! wouldn't it be useful then to add this category..?

As for age it can help you estimate how much you would be making at a certain point in the future during your career or what salary range to expect compared to others of similar age. Age does make a difference when applying for a job, not a big difference maybe but nonetheless it can affect one's chances, whether negatively or positively, depedning on what the employer is looking for. Emotional stability for example is something an employer might look for in a candidate.

paul: i understand what you write above; nevertheless, i have serious concerns about a salary poll where a 24 year old individual who claims to have just finished school and to be working in Toronto for yabu pushelberg claims to be paid $100,000 per year. even accounting for exchange rate differences, this is so far beyond the norm as to be totally unbelievable, and - for me at least - totally destroys the credibility of the information being presented

like i said above, i support the idea of archinect having a salary poll. but, for it to be remotely useful, there need to be some standards with respect to definitions and data ... i believe you should adopt the "position descriptions" used in the aia survey (i expect aia would cooperate) so meaningful comparison could be possible ... i believe you should be very careful to make participants clarify distinctions between a) base salary; b) paid overtime compensation; c) bonus or incentive compensation; d) benefits; e) experience level; f) education level; g) the way numbers are presented (you have both hourly and annual data presented now); h) etc.

when i got of school i had a general sense that entry level positions paid between x and y, but I didn't know which end of the spectrum was more realistic in my city with my qualifications. if the salary poll had been around at the time it would have been another tool among many that i used to narrow things down and understand that asking for y would have gotten me laughed out of most offices in my city and asking for x would have made me a sucker. if you know a general range of what people are being paid for doing the same work in the same town, you can throw out a number in salary negotiations that's high enough not to get you screwed but low enough not to scare everybody off.

as for bogus numbers, i don't think most people with even a very cursory knowledge of the profession would believe a 24 year old intern fresh out of school was making 100k. since this website is geared mainly toward people either in the profession or in architecture school, i believe most of us will be able to dicern what's bogus and what's legit. if we can't, it will only take looking at the patterns to see who stands out as being absurdly off base.

one thing that does concern me about bogus numbers is their possible inclusion in the charts and graphs i hear will be part of the new poll. a way to avoid this would be letting people choose, perhaps with check boxes, which entries to include or exclude. that way, if i wanted a chart plotting salaries for interns in Toronto, my results wouldn't be wildly skewed by 100k guy.

My suggestion is that there be an announced period of time in which current information can be submitted, and that this information be collected, formatted (graphed if desired, etc.) and not published until the submission period is closed.

My reasoning for this is that we may get a slightly more reliable, realistic sample if everyone submits their information "blind" instead of being able to see other information that's already been submitted.

It seemed to me that in the current salary poll the incidence of somewhat unbelievable entries increased as time went on. My feeling was that some posters might be trying to "best" previous entries.
No anonymous, unverified poll would ever be entirely perfect, but by collecting all info at once and not publishing it until the collection is complete I think the competition-factor might be reduced somewhat.

Perhaps in the future there would be additional open periods for reporting new data - for instance an annual survey - and the older data would then be archived.


I'm not in favor of a format that would allow posters to vote to exclude certain submissions. There will always be anomolous results in any survey and it doesn't seem right to remove them.

I'm also not in favor of including gender in the results.

some people really do make unusually high and/or low salaries. i know architects with less than 5 years of experience that make over $100K.

what do you think about incorporating a "flag" system, that will allow users to flag an entry if it seems bogus? if a certain number of flags are posted we could contact the person to verify the data, or remove the entry.

formerly - we could display the results to people who contribute to the poll, after they've submitted their data. but i generally prefer the ongoing evolution of the salary poll. i can't think of why someone would need to better themselves (or somebody else) in an anonymous environment like this.

you may not be able to concieve of it, but believe me, they're out there!

I like the flag system idea a lot, so long as you guys actually do let people know if they're entry is being taken down and give them a chance to explain it. I remember being very pissed when my entry at insidearch was removed because of contradictory information (rectified, thank you insidarch, and screw you if you're the principals who went on and blew smoke up everyones butts saying your firms great, because it's NOT), and wouldn't want it to be the same way here.

Alternatively, maybe there should be some sort of sorting system- i.e. an entry would be labled in red if it is verrrry far away from the median, green if it's within a certain range of the median, and yellow if it's in between? That way, without anybody trying to judge whether someone was truthful or not, people can automatically be informed of whether this is a very normal salary or not.

i think a flag would work with concern to "bogus" posts.
(craigslist has a similar feature)


Also, i don't see any logic for eliminating Gender from the poll.
I guess the same would go for School/Education...

...I say collect the data, and let it speak for itself...

sorry Rationalist, couldn't resist...
Paul, feel free to delete my "off-topic" comment.

i can accept that there are unusual circumstances under which an individual with a certain experience level will receive an unusually high or an unusually low wage. however, i believe the majority of the people here are interested mostly in the "norms" for a particular combination of community and job description/experience level.

to the extent the database you compile aggregates the data around a) an identifiable community; b) an appropriate job definition; and c) a specific period in time, then I have no problem with it also reporting the high and low salaries in each category ...

but, you also need to report the mean and the median figures (and maybe the quartile ranges) for each category for the information to be really useful to readers of the poll results.

What you usually do when graphing data is eliminate the lowest and highest to account for that error.

But quizzical, I wonder if it is more common and more deceiving to report one's salary 3-5k higher than it really is? If 1/3 of people do this, it is more damaging to the data than one person reporting 100k.

I was just browsing the salary poll and I'm starting to see quizzical's concern. While most entries look plausable, many do not. I do agree with Paul that there are highs and lows in salary range for architecture, or any profession for that matter. Then again, the current polls seems to lack credibility.

Syracuse does a salary survey of their alumni each year which I've always appreciated, even though I'm not an alumn of there. (If that hasn't been mentioned yet, I'd look to it for a good case study for the Archinect survey.) I've always found it to be more interesting than the AIA salary survey, just wish it would cover more than one univ.

strawbeary: your musings about the possible frequency of bogus data parallel my own -- in a voluntary, anonymous poll of this sort, i just don't know how the integrity of the data can be maintained against malicious or manipulative intent

as for reporting the data, the "median" tends to be a pretty good figure to use, because it is the mid-point of all responses ... i.e. 1/2 of the responses are above the median and 1/2 are below

I wouldn't mind seeing a distinction between self-employeed architects/designers versus people working for the 'man'.
I'd also like it if we could generate graphs/data sets based on certain criteria, e.g. men vs women in salaries.

can't we also get data on people working for the "woman" ?

blah

I hope I didn't offend anyone with the 'man' comment.
But also, it would be nice if we could generate different types of graphs: bar, line, pie, etc. and calculate the information as 'real' numbers or percentages.

I'd like a way to differentiate between base salary, bonus, other forms of compensation such as percentages of fees for projects brought into the firm by the employee. There could be a category for "total compensation" but then some sub-categories.

I'm not sure about the flag issue. It seems fine if it's a system where people can flag entries to symbolize their skepticism - maybe they can even add brief comments to explain why they flagged it. But I wouldn't really want them to be able to flag entries as a means to get them removed entirely.

Both of these issues stem from my experiences with comments that I've written in informal polls on this and other sites. I have an employment situation in which I have a lower than average base salary but usually receive an substantial end-of-year bonus (5 figures, in an average year equal to about 30% of my base salary.) When I've discussed this in relevant threads I've encountered some replies basically saying "bullshit. That type of bonus doesn't exist in architecture except for firm owners" or telling me that I'm stupid to let myself be "exploited" by accepting such a low salary.
I can handle the comments from doubters, but I wouldn't want my data to be able to be "voted off" the poll just because a certain number of people flagged it. That would just result in a poll that was skewed toward whatever numbers are the popular perception of average, because all the unusual situations will be removed.

For those of us who are really data egg-heads, it would be awesome to have info about parent's total schooling, incomes, and ages from all individuals polled.

and a way to download the full data set by field, so we could run staatitistical tests on it.

Aluminate: great post !

maybe completely stupid to say so, but i'd like to be able to see who is happy and who is not with there job, and how this relates to all the other factors people are mentioning.

pay vs. level of happiness

experience vs. level of happiness

location vs. level of happiness

i guess it really holds no level of necessity for someone using this data to determine what they should make in a certain environment, but it interests me.

back to work now.

my grammar is horrible

it would be interesting if the salaries could be mapped somehow, so that the median salary for whatever level of experience could be viewed by location.

hmm, lots of good points. The post about Syracuse's survery made me think of something- it could be interesting to be able to sort by what schools people went to. That way we'd stop getting people asking if Ivy grads really make more all the time. Or do we not want to go there?

le bossman: hmmm ... intriguing point ... while location can be meaningful, i'm not sure it's meaningful to map a median $65,000 salary in NYC vs a median $65,000 salary in Houston ... there are huge cost-of-living differences between such locations and that factor needs to be a part of the consideration as well ... we probably wouldn't want people to be mislead

sorry ... "misled"

no, and i agree with you on that point. but i was viewing the salary map in that sense as a means to understand the state of salary compensation in the profession, not as a gauge for deciding what one's salary should be in a respective place. perhaps information about living costs could be included.

I think that might be taking it a bit far... Shouldn't people know that the cost of living differs between the various places? Maybe we should just put link to a good resource on the subject and call it done, because that's whole other set of data we're asking them to analyze.

"Shouldn't people know that the cost of living differs between the various places?" ... well, you'd think so, wouldn't you. However, you can't imagine how often we have to wade through this issue in excruciating detail when we interview candidates working in high cost-of-living areas ... people currently working in the Northeast or DC would actually get a raise by taking a pay-cut to work in our city.

however, i'm not advocating for the salary poll to do anything special on this topic ... i just got a little concerned by le bossman's suggestion that we map salaries ... that could be misleading without some sort of notation or reference to sites where cost-of-living differentials could be understood

Mapping salaries can be useful in showing other trends though besides just salaries linked to cost-of-living information. For example, in the 2005 AIA salary survey there was a chart showing how intern salaries were increasing sharply over the previous three years in the Northeastern US, while they were much steadier in some places, and even declining in the midwest. The costs of living are actually pretty similar in much of the northeast (excluding the greater Boston and NYC areas) to some of the larger midwestern cities, but other factors (notably a huge boom in residential construction in the northeast) were affecting salaries during that time.

I agree that cost of living info is very important to consider. A lot of people I know have said that they wouldn't work in particular places because those regions don't pay well - but they don't always look at the costs to live there. And the money saved by living somewhere with a lower cost of living is an actual savings, while the higher salary in another place can be misleading because of the taxes and such. For instance if you can get an 8k higher salary in city A, but city B will cost you 8k less to live in over the course of a year, then city B is the better deal because in city A the 8k is gross and you'll only see a fraction of it after taxes.

it would help to have a search form. The user could search by location, age, salary, type of firm, years of experienc, and maybe even specify the order (least to most or most to least). Also, in order for anyone to post their info, there should be required areas to fullfill a minimum amount of info per person.

those would just make it a more useful survey. but its great to have so much data to begin with!

The simplicity of the existing poll is what has encouraged so many replies. Changing the poll may discourage responses if the new poll is more sophisticated, as has been discussed. Changing the poll may, as well, skew how people think about their answers thereby making comparisions between the answers of new respondents and those of previous respondents unreliable. This will happen even if the individual questions from the original poll have not themselves been changed. Moreover, previous respondents may take the poll again. The duplication of answers will further complicate comparisons.

With regard to the plausibility of replies I think the implausible ones are easy enough to pick out and discount. More sophisticated questions will not lead to more plausible results.

I skipped a good chunk of the responses in order to type mine before I forgot what I was going to ssay, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone:

Somebody above mentioned that we should have open periods for data collection, and then close the salary poll for awhile until data collection time rolls around again (for example, encourage a yearly poll.)

While I think this may result in lower numbers of people reporting their salaries, it has one enormous positive benefit in my mind:

Salaries will be reported with respect to a particular time period.

For example: we all know that salaries fluctuate with time. They tend to go up with inflation, but, partly due to geographic differences, don't always. It would be really helpful if, when I was sifting through the salary poll, I could tell when the information was collected, and even if I were able to sort through a chronological reporting of a certain geographic area to see the salary trends over time.

With the current, rolling system of salary polling, you lose all temporal assocations with the salaries. This seems to me very misleading and problematic.

Are there other ways we could address this problem? What do people think?

Another pro of the rolling salary poll is that every time you get a new job or job offer you can go and record it right away.

A detailed explanation of benefits; soon after I joined my firm they switched to a high-deductible ($1500) health care plan, and I have to pay for half my health insurance...no dental...no vision...and a rude awakening with the first $250 trip to the e-room.

at any rate, would be nice to see a portion of the poll that could detail benefits, because I'm curious if this is at all a trend in the AE world. and it's something most people don't consider when negotiating salary.

might be extremely detailed...but helpful.

I would be in support of the schools attended...having first hand knowledge of specific state schools and specific Ivy league schools I am well aware of certain discourses that are present in one and totally absent in the other....and this goes both ways from the states to the ivys and vice versa so...depending on the type of job, who it was with, etc...the school the person attened would help explain the salary perhaps

$USD v. £ v. €, etc... cause you have members all over the NAFTA, Eurozone and beyond.

Members only. (To reduce on garbage data.)

Gender is relevant, but maybe should be optional entry. (Other fields should be mandatory for most part.)

That sounds like something a man would say... Keep gender as a required field. Wouldn't you like to know if there's a gender gap in architecture? I sure would.

Ha, I agree with rationalist.

As for including school: I think it's an awful idea. It would only amplify problems of competition and perception already extent in the field. There isn't a correlation between school and salary anyway, and if there is, there flat out shouldn't be and no one should encourage it. If you are talented, or a hard work, or lazy, or a bad designer, or what-have-you--that's what has a bearing on your employment, and your degree should not. Each school turns out plenty of each. And anyway different schools specialize in different parts of the field, of what use would it even be to attempt to compare them? I think this sort of thing just leads to further classism and divisiveness. That is a horrible, harmful idea.

I'm happy with the current system. It is interesting to be able to look through and see all the personal comments everyone has given. I think a few important items should be on there and be able to be sorted by. I also think it is important to leave an area for comments, and this is where people can add things such as where they went to school, their age, if they are m/f, or if they are just a lazy ass cad monkey who spends their days on archinect.

Of course, I wasn't talking about myself in the comment above. Ha!!!

I agree with an earlier post (way up towards the top of this somewhere) that things like "school attended" and age should be voluntary slots on either member profiles or the salary poll. It would actually be interesting to give people the option to list what school they went to and see if they choose to.

As someone just finishing grad school I'd be interested to see salaries for more junior positions divided up by school. Myriam is right, there shouldn't be a correlation between school and salary... but I'd be interested to see if there is.

As a UK Archinecter I'd like to be able to filter results so that I only see other UK salaries. However, it'd also be interesting to be able to directly compare UK and US salaries (and other countries, of course). Would it be possible to link some form of currency converter into the system? That way we in the UK could type in our salaries and see a proper comparison with US 'necters, all in the same currency.

Could be complex, but could also show some interesting results...

For those like me that have the constant itch of moving it'd be nice to map opportunities like this except that the filters could be:

1. Location
2. Years of experiece
3. Type of work

So you'd be able to zero in on what a junior architect with 2 years of experience can expect in LA as compared to NYC for example. It'd be sweet if you can compare markets also. Like if you type in your variables it would map out what individuals with similar level are making across the city, country or world.

"longitudinal studies"
get some guinea pigs, er uh volunteers
i doubt only 5 guinea pigs would give good stats.

is www.salary.com useless?

If there is a way to filter the search it would be much more help (i.e. location, education)

danka

haven't read the other suggestions, but i am sure they are all very suggestive.

I think you need a search function, and also what currency are we quoting in? this is probably the biggest issue. and a graph, and a map. good work.

I would appreciate some input on this:
I am about to graduate with an M.Arch (3+). I have about eight years' experience doing corporate interiors (glorified space planning) and project management. To what extent, if at all, will this experience count toward determining my salary as an intern architect?

Survery needs some kind of tools to compare by age, area, etc.

Also, very imoprtantly, there is no date the salaries are posted so the numbers could be 6 years old. One can't reliably compare them to current salaries.

size of company / number of architects on staff.

type of work - college & University, healthcare, international, etc...

give us a way to filter results based on location/salary/experience/firm type. this would be very helpful

It's time to stop this discussion and just do it.

fantastic Paul (it's been some time for me to post)

Glad to see more useful information added to the site.
Location seems to be vital (even though some pointed out that it may not be) as I have heard in the news today that us in Los Angeles, earn about 15% less than those in the same position, elsewhere in the state of California. Quite unbeliveable....I wonder how our profession fairs in with this in mind!

I did skim the suggestions and most of them are pretty good. How to implement really becomes your challenge. I did not see a suggestion to separate those who were in ownership positions vs. those who are not. Setting your own salary and deciding how much of the profit to take off the table for your own use really puts you in a different position than those that need to negotiate their salary/benefit package based on skill, experience, location and fitting in with that particular team or environment.

Would you condsider opening the poll to Landscape Architects? As is frequently the case, we are a group that is often late in being asked to the table.

Sort by location. City, state or country.

I think the data needs to be entered in a way that is more structured. As it stands it is mostly free form and everyone is filling in different information. Also it would be nice for you to be able to graph information automatically instead of having to basically do data entry with extracted information from each respondent. I would love to see the results of the survey thus far, but in order for the data to have more signifigance, there should be more data gathered from each area. Maybe information can be obtained from alumni organizations - some schools, (take Syracuse for example) take salary polls from its alumni on a regular basis. Also the AIA may be a source for information.

<<Suggestions for sorting categories:
4. Degree (none; BA/BS; BArch; MA/MS; MArch; PhD)>>

And to that I'd add, some option of showing every degree a person holds, not just their highest-level education (BS -- MArch -- PhD is a very different track than BFA -- PhD, or B.ARch -- MFA and so on)

Also, when tracking gender, please do include male/female/other. I'm curious to hear from anyone in the profession who falls outside of the binary gender system and would prefer to publicly take the stance of acknowledging the non-normative.

let the Archinet Salary Poll change requests flow!!!! :)

Susan, don't most "other" genders actually identify with a particular gender, whether biologically predisposed or not? I would imagine the question should be: "gender preference : m/f" although I guess you may as well leave "other" in there just in case.

can we have the school that the degree is from be included in the poll??? may help clear up once and for all the 'which architecture school is better????' question

just a thought


if this has already been posted above, sorry. I usually dont read the threads

uhhhhhhh...how does showing which school the degree was obtained show which school is better? Isn't that a very qualitatitve approach to a philosophical question? why not just read us news reports?

I've been trying to get a better idea of teaching salaries @ universities. Hard info to come by.

i think there should be a search query for the salary poll. or a filter by region at least. just my two cents.

Software skills and use.

Virtually every job listing basically says, "It doesn't matter how much relevant experience you have, don't bother us if you aren't fluent in AutoCad"

I won't ran't about this situation, but it would help to know whether people can be gainfully employed - and how much they earn - if they don't fit the mold or use software from other vendors.

Thanks

I appreciate Susan's concern for those who don't fall under the traditional m/f category.

In fact, I once saw a monkey doing CAD work!

m/f/monkey!

Cost of living is a huge factor, however, I have worked all across the country and it doesnt always come into play. I am most interested with who is getting rich if the worker bees are not. In other words, most firms may get 8 to 12 percent of the cost of construction of say of a million dollar home regardless of where in the country that house gets built, yet in the areas of lower cost of living the workers are getting less money. Who is pocketing that chunk of change? We are a boutique firm with rich clients and a resonable cost of living, low property taxes, yet build multi-million dollar projects. Most architects working for firms in the area are not making that much $$. Are the principles and owners the ones making out like bandits and hiding the fact? When I worked in Aspen, the cost of living was extrodinarily high, the clients extrodinarily rich, and the salary was excellent yet I still was poor, so I do believe regions are a factor, however, in my current situation I do not believe that to be true - we are basically an Aspen with low cost living and extrodinarily rich clients - so why are we not getting an excellent salary to enjoy in our low cost situation?

I'm also astounded to see that there are interns in their twenties making $50K plus a year. They may have exceptional computer skills but certainly do not have the experience to detail a building or run a job yet. The computer age has added value to the young computer genius intern who can produce incredible renderings and models. Yes they end up getting great money due to the marketing value of wonderful images, however, I have met of few of these folks that are frustrated after a few years because they are never given real world skills to become well rounded architects - in other words they become typecast as pretty-picture-makers and not designers, architects, job captains, or project managers. At 42 now I started by hand drafting and did not have computers in school. When I entered the job market employees were only interested in seeing our drafting skills and lettering abilities! I love seeing portfolios today - older generation architects hire these youngsters after being wowed by the wonderful 3D imagery. We hired a few such folk and once they are put in a drafting situation do not have any graphic ability to make everyday working drawings look good let alone even know how to draw a typical stud wall section. An architect friend of mine who has his own firm has the potential future employee draw a wall section by hand as part of the interview procees - nothing complicated, just a 6" frame wall on standard footings. Sorry to rant but being old school I'm always a bit sad to see some basics lost to technology.

caferacer - there is a big difference between an intern that's 23 ys/old and just out of a BArch and a 29 yr/old intern that's completed IDP, started the ARE's and has 6+ years of experience. And remember, $50k isn't exactly a "good" salary anymore. That won't qualify you to buy a house or condo in most any major American city. I understand you frusturation with recent grads lack of real world knowledge, but the "pretty picture" honeymoon fades quite quickly.

A decent accurate salary poll is good for letting people know their value in the market place. For years I was low paid while gaining experience. Come raise time I would hear from the principal how little he was paid at my age. After getting fed up with my wage I started job hunting and the salary offers blew me away. I had been getting used for the profit of a greedy principal for at least a year or more. That's who is making the money. And yes, you're gonna have to pay a 20 something intern $50k, I have been exceeding that for years.

caferacer
i'm 43 and when i got out of my march program i could not draw a 6" frame wall either .. but it doesn't really take very long to learn how to draw it does it? i hope for your sake that your computer skills are up to date because there is nothing sadder than a 40 year old architect who still can't open and print an (autocad) drawing

salary poll - the only problem with the salary pole is that's it's completely unreadable. all we need is graphs per major cities plotting age vs salary.

graphs/maps that show the relationships between these 4 factors:

1. firm fees (per employee?)
2. salary (including bonuses)
3. years worked (total.. not just at one firm)
4. cost of living (linked to geography)

these are the most important factors, as far as i'm concerned...

school, age, sex... none of these things mean anything when it really comes down to it.

I am quite versatile at the computer and take pride in making beautiful drawing sets. I'm starting to sound like my paraents when griping about technological advances. I learn on a need to know basis so I still can't program a VCR and the clock on my microwave is still blinking. Yes - charts, graphs, regions, ages, etc.....will really paint the picture. I choose to live where I am instead of moving to where I can make double the money. Money has never been a driving force for me but I do believe one should be compensated fairly regardless. It is naturally a slap in the face to allow yourself to be taken advantage of. On a lighter note, I work for a boutique firm and may projects are my projects - not the egos that own the company. That in itself is a MAJOR perk. No more spineless agreeing with the principals because they sign your checks.

Be able to search certain locations to find comp salaries without searching through every page. Perhaps there is a way to do this, unfortunately I have not found it yet.

any updates on when the salary poll section will be updated with some new changes or organization? .... (hopefully with a search option)

It has been several months since i reviewed the salary poll. I am very disappointed that there is no search option available yet. The poll has 2800+ entries. What is the point of posting all this information one must search page by page. A total waste of good information.

I think it would be interesting to see educational information, such as the grad school attended and type of degree attained, in addition to salary and experience.

Personally, I really like the information that is already provided. However, I would really like to see a sort function... you know the kind.. Click on age and it sorts all the entries by age, click on salary and it sorts all the entries by salary. And most importantly, click on location and it sorts by location. It can be quite difficult to find relevant data (to you personally), but I think this could be remedied by a simple sort function, rather than graphs. Or, if everyone really wanted graphs, then perhaps we could have both.

although this may be difficult to do, i would love (LOVE) to see an interactive datascape of salary information.

imagine the possibilites archinectors: one datascape based on type of degree vs salary; another for age vs salary; oh, oh what about gender vs salary; geographical location vs salary. comeon', we are all datascape lovers here.

on a more realistic note, i would like to see a section for the rate of hourly freelance work. although i am a corporate whore in the architecture world, i do plenty of freelance work to support my passion for international travel (read: crack money). i am interested to know what other people charge hourly for good 'ol fashioned freelance work.

OK, Archintect, it's been almost a year. Where's the new and improved salary survey?

Respectfully,
Citizen

Damn it, I hate when I misspell during indignation ;)

"OK, Archinect..."

Only licensed, suspender and bow-tie clad AIA members deserve more than 50K per year. They are more creative thus resulting in much better architecture. Of course, computer mad text-message freaks that can cut-and-paste fashion models on their computer renderings of beaver dam stick piles and crumpled foil to in order to bring some reality to otherwise inplausible structures also deserve much higher salaries straight out of school. I personaly think those who are dressed or act like Dieter, Nooni or Nuni ( as from SNL's Sprockets or Art dealer skits) are far more likely to receive the big bucks since they definitely come across as highly creative individuals.
I don't deal with clients if they don't at least have some Prada or Gaultier in their wardrobe but will make an exception for the odd individual who says they know Paris Hilton. Anyway, back to salaries...we certainly are not in it for the money - even the best paid liars are claiming 100k per year which certainly doesnt make for much wealth in this day and age. I need a drink.

Key filter items:

-Years experience
-Location
-Licensure
-Size of firm