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I’m asking this as a supposition. I know that a lot of people in this forum already hate me because I ask things that many of them think that those things are impossible. So I just want to know what you think it would be architects’ economy, and how they would be in society. I also know that I already asked a similar question, but this is not an idea. I also recognize that a lot of people would take this question as a joke because everything that I ask is joke for them. But Thank you anyway for your attention.
pier - we don't hate you - we just don't respect you, or these pathetic, repetitive threads you insist on starting.
I’ll explain why I continue repeating these ideas. What happened is that I met a friend’s family and he told me that architects will never become rich as other profession can. Therefore, this made me angry. So I tried to create an idea to find how architects can become rich. Then, I started to research about solutions for the architecture economic issue. And, I thought that the idea of architects selling their products or projects (not designs) would make architects richer, but I asked this idea many times trying to convince myself that it is good. Thus, I found this website, and I thought that it would be good to ask other architects if they think that this idea is good for architecture as profession. So this is why I ask this question every time. And, I still want to know what it could be a economic solution for architects.
the simplest definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result ... let it go, man.
1 You just realized architects don't get paid much
2 You're jealous of the money that other related professionals make
3 You realize you made a mistake in picking your career
4) You're going to solve this problem by complaining about it on the internet.
Just punch your friend that told you that, all your problems are now solved. Now go do sleep.
Once you realise that architecture is more important than money everything will fall into place.
What is the reason why architecture is not well-paid?
Clearly the reason you will never be is that you are spending your time re-posting the same thing over and over and never listening to your peers.
Go make some money and then come back, bitching and whining on here is just really annoying everyone. Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
Please don't refer to looking on Wikipedia and Yahoo answers as "research"
Excuse me, Misters Perfect, but I only can say that we will see in the future.
piero, you're looking at the surface without seeing the issues at the core. Architects (good ones anyway) try to improve the built environment while selling their designs as 'value added' profit. Developers try to make as much profit as possible while selling their designs as improving the built environment. Can they work together? Yes, when one keeps the other in check. Can they be one person? Maybe. Although I feel that you would lean more and more towards the 'make more profit' side of the business when you realize every building you make is tied directly to your bank account.
Architects are the most conformist professionals that I’ve seen. Yes, I understand your point, but what I mean is that to become an architect is a long process. You have to make a great sacrifice to graduate in architecture. On the other hand, other careers do not have to make a sacrifice, and they are three times more rewarded than an architect is. For example: to become an engineer is not too hard, you just have to be good at math. You’ll be done with that. The only career that has to make a great sacrifice and is well-rewarded is Medicine. I understand what you say that architects care more about being famous, but tell me something. Is it important being famous but not having anything to eat well whereas you could be rich? I think that the only architect that I have seen that he’s trying to do more is Santiago Calatrava but the rest of architects receiving are conformist receiving almost nothing. It is really weird this ideology in USA because Americans are always trying to look for more. That is the reason why third world never advances because they are conformist. The governments just give them a little bit of something, and they are happy. That is happening with architecture. This is the reason why architects do not have high salaries because they never try to look for it.
I think that I already posted this article on another thread, but it is good that you review it. http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2008/07/10/do-what-you-love-but-money-wont-necessarily-follow
I was really hoping that the "My Little Pony" thread would help you see the light.
You know fuck yourself. People in this website are the most stupid that I have ever seen. They think that everything is a joke. I will never recommend anybody to study architecture with people like you. It is disappointing to know that there are people like you and that guy James. You’re more kids than adults. OMG. I understand why architecture sector is suffering and decaying everyday more and more. Architects are really stupid making business. They create something but someone else takes advantage of their project. And they do not care, they just stay quiet and doing nothing about it. To architecture, it is going to occur the same what happens to art. It is going to be forgotten. People would want to watch architecture but they do not want to study it or pay for it because it is unworthy.
What do you call business? sell a drawing. Yeah, I can see how you're gonna be rich!
For example: to become an engineer is not too hard, you just have to be good at math.
Sorry but this statement shows your naivete. To DO engineering maybe you only have to be good at math, but to become a SUCCESSFUL engineer you have to have a good sense of business, people skills, creativity, teamwork/communication skills, drive, and possibly financial backing, too.
Ugh I hate this victim culture in architecture! You're complaining that every architect is conformist yet you're portraying the most cliched view of architecture that has existed since that idiotic Fountainhead story: that the architect is the suffering genius who is never appreciated or revered for his brilliance. You can choose to play that role if you want to.
As to most people on this site being more kids than adults, well yeah I agree there. I mean I'm 44 but still laugh like a 12 year old boy whenever a carpenter cracks a good "Yeah, that's what she said" joke! That's why I keep coming back!
"You can choose to play that role if you want to."
Kinky. But that's what she said.
That is the issue that some architects do not take business or the career more seriously. Yeah! I understand that sometimes we have to joke but not with serious things as jobs. That is the reason why that guy James does not have a job. And many architects do not have a job for that reason too because they never thought that involvement in business was serious or important. Well, architects are currently paying for the consequences. Beautiful career without money. You do not want to complain more about because I don't want you to get more mad.
What? I have a job— not one that pays very well or is full-time. Well, actually it pays well... I just don't work enough. I actually work in the 'general business' side of things— accounting, bookkeeping, office management.
What I mean with this is that architects have to change their way of see business. They have to do it to improve economically, and have a better career in the economy side. Maybe, my idea is not the best to improve that. But they should find a way to make better business because you can see what happened this time with economic recession. How they were affected by this.
Furthermore, explain me why many new architects are taking business classes because they need to have knowledge in business to succeed.
'what would happen if architect' students like Pier were educated on the architecture profession while in school instead of building spaceships and getting all sci-artsy? You can start by making a stink with the NAAB... I'm inclined to believe you are 20-22 instead of 26.
All joking aside, 26 is still plenty of time to get into business or real estate. I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but try Stan Ross's Inside Track to Careers in RE, quick read but very informative little book.
furthermore, thus, therefore.
all used incorrectly every single time.
but to focus on what i think you're saying, just go to any major firm's site like this one:
they hire architects, engineers, and businessmen, and they're an international success. its extremely naive of you to say that all architects are horrible businessmen. clearly, there are a ton of firms that are firmly (haha) grounded in business. the architects that work for them like to design, and get paid what designers get paid. the ones that want more money go into management and get paid more money. thats how it works... its not like architects are these poor oppressed people that can't make it anywhere because society won't let them advance. architects are content enough with their salaries, otherwise we'd do something about it. yes, the economy is bad right now, but once everyone's more or less employed again i doubt anyone will care half as much.
i think YOU have a problem with YOURSELF, and the fact that you don't care about designing as much as you care about money and are upset that you won't make as much as your fellow engineer. basically, you're jealous and don't really have a passion for your work. Don't get me wrong, I care about money too. Thats why I'm going for an MBA-- I've been active in those discussion groups if you look. But I don't go around insulting other people that don't value a strong business sense. Different people value different things, and the architecture community generally values DESIGNING over DEVELOPING. We don't go on developer forums and start discussions on why developers don't care about design and that they should and that their profession is stupid.
You are the guy who is getting me wrong. I never said that design is bad. What I asked is why architects cannot design and do business (in real estate) at the same time. Thus, many of the architects here argued me that that is impossible that architects would never do that because it is a risk. So if architects would risk, they would lose everything. If many architects haven’t intended, why do they argue about it? At the same to me, I haven’t tried. Therefore, I can argue at all. Yes, I can see how architects make a lot of money. A lot of them are throwing away money everywhere because they have too much. So they do not know how to spend their money right now. You have to be realistic too. Architects have to find another way to make money. The best example for architects is fashion designers. A lot of fashion designers know how to make money. Fashion designers design and sell their products. Tell me if an architect do that. I know that a building is much more expensive. But why do not architects start with simple things as houses? Of course, house which are not in the most expensive cities or areas of a city. Just answer me a question. Find me an architect as rich as Giorgio Armani. You will accept that you are right.
Do you even know what's required to become a successful real estate developer? The schooling, contacts, capital - even if you had all these you still need a remarkable business sense and an eye for value. These aren't common attributes. Combine those with a design background and a crew of employees - sure, perhaps you can be successful. No one is saying its impossible, and I for one would love to see this combo out there making the world better one plot of land at a time (oh, and getting rich as well). No one disputes the attractiveness of this. HOWEVER, you are not offering anything to this conversation other than complaints, whining, and links to completely useless articles that also feature no real analysis or concrete vision. What are your strategies? Ideas? Plans? If you designed a floating building it would be great to imagine but unrealistic. This is where you're current line of thinking lies - in the realm of the unreal.
Yup, we've been through this so many damn times now my poor head is spinning.
He's clearly just talking to himself because he never, not once (and I wrote some pretty lengthy explanations when he first showed up here), acknowledges anything anyone writes. Many have tried to explain what reality is like, what the "real world" presents, not some childish ramblings.
I am thinking that everyone is correct, he's a teenager that is trying, desperately, to get someone to shout
"Oh My GOD!! Pier, you are a genius!! Yes, money!! Architects should make a lots of money!!! You are so smart....where do we send the checks??!!"
OK. We'll see in the future. Thank you for your attention. I don't want to make anyone mad. Not everybody will think the same like you. So we just have to wait, and see what happens.
Find me an architect as rich as Giorgio Armani
I found you three Piero. Jonathon Segal, David Hovey, and John Portman. I started a thread hoping for some intelligent discussion. You went off on another Piero tirade about how 3 or 4 architects doesn't matter. Guess what it has to start someplace. You are not going to wake up one morning and find 90% of architects using a new business model. Also just cause the boss makes money doesn't mean jack for you as an employee. Zaha made the wealthiest list but her office still had layoffs. I can't believe I just wasted 30 seconds of my life responding to this thread or that anyone else takes his threads seriously anymore.
I found these architects too. http://www.planetizen.com/node/29067
If you want read this article because it is really interesting.
Right now, I found a good article and no one wants to read it.
We read that article back in 2005 when it was first published.
Anyways, I've never seen anyone troll archinect this well. Hats off to you evil Venezuelan prince, you.
I did not know that. Sorry, I am not a diviner. Thank you anyway for you attention.
But it is good to know that some architects like the idea.
dude being a developer is not impossible in conjunction with architecture.
it is actually relatively common. i mean for sweet mother of all the gods frank gehry even owned the land that he built his early iconic work on (you know, with the binoculars) and got paid for the land as well as the design. so what? it happens often enough that i barely spend time to consider it. there are always ways to make money and sometimes we choose to go that way and sometimes not. so what? you wanna know all the ways we conduct our business? sorry, get your own business plan. make money and architecture? ok, go ahead. nothing is stopping you. seriously nothing at all. it isn't like there is a barrier before you that will prevent you from achieving your aspirations. it's just that a lot of people here aren't interested in what you are selling. get over it. how you gonna be a business man if you can't take dis-interest?
don't get me wrong. your posts are mildly funny, in aggregate.
so he writes
but nothing he said was actually a response to what i had said.
trace, i would say he's a freshman in college who just realized he doesn't like his major.
^ ^ Just realized his major doesn't have all the glory/pay he thought it would after seeing a documentary on Calatrava, like, that one time
OK guys. What I said about the money( Those words were directed to Due89) was figurative sentences, but you did not understand. So I don't care. Yeah of course, you know more about my life than me. And if I'm starting what it is the problem. That is the reason where are in this world to do something important. Some people change the world, some don't.
That is the reason we are in this world to do something important. Some people change the world, some don't.
if you aren't famous and rich it's probably your fault. We are all rich and famous here, as most architects are.
You should probably quit, or at the very least, take up civil engineering. They make a fortune I hear.
- Vitruvius, aka Token AE
"You can't change the world unless you change yourself" - P.Diddy
'what would happen if architect' students like Pier were educated on the architecture profession while in school instead of building spaceships and getting all sci-artsy? You can start by making a stink with the NAAB"
I think it's up to students to go after skills that will be relevant in practice. My school didn't even have revit on its computers 2 years ago, but we 'bitched' enough and now they actually are teaching it. They offered almost no design build curriculum, so we started an incredibly active chapter of Freedom by Design. We raised thousands of dollars and built out two projects with almost no support from our program. But we did it and gained invaluable construction experience thanks to our contractor mentor.
Big ideas are great, but they don't mean anything if you can't find the experience to follow through on them. I think the OP needs to follow that advice more than anything else.
What would happen if we just let this thread die ... ?
He/she would be a real estate agent.
Remember - there's also no tooth fairy:
part of my issue with your responses is that you have a business model in mind (great - no really, no sarcasm). there are precious few examples of it working out in the real world (no one's fault, it just is). you're pissed off that more people aren't pursuing this model that you think will save us all (ok.....).
problem for me is that i really think you want all of us to switch so that in 10 years, after we've made all the mistakes and laid all the groundwork, you can just swoop in and piggy back off the efforts of what your forefathers did.
what you fail to see or understand is: NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU! go out, prove all of us wrong, reinvent the profession and go down in the history books. really, no sarcasm.
as nike would remind us, just do it.
OK guys. Thank you for your recommendations. I'm not going to say anything else because I don't want to continue with this problem and negative discussion. So I hope that all of you have a good life, enjoy the life and achieve your goals. Thanks for all your attention.
Lebron? Is that you?
If it is, that explains a lot, yo!