Archinect
anchor

Are connections worth $80,000?

I'm an Australian with a B.Arch who on my most recent tour of the US applied to several masters programs. I've currently got acceptance offers from U. of Oregon's Track II 2 program in Portland and Illinois @ Chicago's 3 year program; a rejection from Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and no response yet from Georgia Tech and Kansas State.

Given the two schools I've been accepted into were my top two choices, I'm pretty ecstatic; but now face the tough decision whether to jump in and immerse myself in a $80,000 debt or stay in Australia and study.

Thus, I ask you as both architects in the US and previous international students, is taking such a debt worth it? Would you view people with degrees from those schools better than a masters program from Australia? $80,000 dollars better?
Obviously getting my Masters in Australia will isolate the connections made in my masters program, and as such the chance of gaining meaningful employment in America at a later date. So I wish to gain an unbiased opinion from the American workforce before signing myself up to huge amounts of debt.

Notably, another thing to take into contention, I will be avoiding $20,000 of Australian debt accrued during a masters degree here, and if I stay working in the US, I will not have to pay my outstanding debt of $20,000 until I return home to work, so the $80,000 debt will realistically only be $60,000 only more.

Thanks for your help.

 
Mar 3, 14 3:12 am
gruen
You will get US connections, but is that any use to you at home? Your cost is for the education, not connections. Consider the cost of the education vs what you will make. $80 k sounds high to me, but plenty of people pay a lot more.
Mar 3, 14 8:25 am  · 
 · 
LITS4FormZ
Unemployment is still high and likely won't change in the next two years. Are things better? Definitely, but 2-3 years of lost graduates means the supply is still there.

$80,000 with the current junk interest rate of 6.8% will amount to over $900 a month in payments for the next 10 years. You've gotten into great programs but that kind of debt responsibility on a $40,000 starting salary is pretty intimidating.
Mar 3, 14 8:42 am  · 
 · 
empea
I work in the US and have worked extensively with Americans throughout my career and there is honestly no tangible quality difference between US and overseas grads. This is meant as no disrespect to US grads or academic institutions but I have yet to see even one thing that could justify the orders of magnitude difference in tuition fees. If your ideal trajectory is working in the US then the chief advantages a US degree will get you is 1. You get connections for starting your own firm here (NB your own firm. To work for someone else you don't need connections the same way, you need a visa) and 2. you'll be able to work post graduation under the F1 student visa. This way you'll have it way easier to get inside the door with employers rather than doing the hit and miss H1B visa fishing from overseas.
These are the advantages in my view. As far as degree quality goes there is no way it's worth that kind of money. If you're really concerned about connections save your money and spend some of it going to a few of the key conferences around the world each year and get your connections that way.
Mar 3, 14 10:50 am  · 
 · 
natematt

^I've actually talked to a lot of students from schools in China and India who were far happier with the education they got in the US than the one from their country of origin. I really think it depends on the country and the school within that country, but some places tend to have better schools than others, or so it seems to me. If there is a huge cultural difference between countries then the education is probably quite a bit different. (which could good, bad, or neither)


As far as $80,000 to go to a US school over a school in Australia… that would have to be a pretty big difference, and I doubt it is.

Mar 3, 14 11:19 am  · 
 · 
empea
Yes I think you're right in that. US schools when they're good are pretty great and when they're bad they're just as bad or worse than the low end in any other country. But virtually all of them carry a price tag that is orders of magnitude different to a comparable degree in for instance the EU.

Another way to look at it is since the US has it's own ecosystem of fees and future earnings, you should probably only consider US level debt if you are planning on spending a substantial part of your career in the US. I currently make a normal NY salary for my experience level and it is twice that of someone comparable to me in my home country in the EU, and more than what I would be making in 10 years still if I were working back home.
Mar 3, 14 11:43 am  · 
 · 
SeriousQuestion

None of those programs are worth $80,000 - not even close.  And that Australian debt will still be there when you get back.

Mar 3, 14 12:07 pm  · 
 · 
AJ_Urbanist

I'm trying to make a similar decision right now. Here are some of the pros I have on my list, beyond the vague "connections" aspect:

- Will encourage me to step much further outside my comfort zone than staying in my own city / country - new experiences, adapting to a new location, and being forced to meet all new people encourages personal growth in me. This is perhaps my biggest reason to move, because I feel this graduate education would best serve me in the future if it encourages the most personal and professional growth!

- US schools tend to have more international students in their Architecture graduate programs than schools in my own country - this diversity in classmates is highly appealing to me.

- I have the opportunity to move to a much bigger city to study and, as I'm interested in Urban Design, the opportunities in New York or LA to study urbanism around me are far greater (and vastly different) than those at home.

Are these things worth $80 000 compared to $25 000 to study at home? I'm not sure yet either. But while the education itself might not be vastly better in the US, your overall experience over the course of your degree might be, especially if you haven't studied or lived abroad before.

Looking forward to reading more peoples thoughts on this topic as I also try and decide!

Mar 3, 14 2:50 pm  · 
 · 
snooker-doodle-dandy

$80,000;00 in the life long career of and Architect  is like a spoon of water in a bucket.  What kind of Architectural Fees are associated with  the average commercial project in America. Thing to keep the ole eyeball on is hanging the shingle on the door.

Mar 3, 14 4:55 pm  · 
 · 
jungo

@LITS4FormZ  - Understandably I'm intimidated by the concept of $80,000 worth of loan repayments, but I'm attempting to figure whether the end justifies the means. Accruing such a debt from a good school; will there be the potential to earn greater money than staying in Australia? This point has been alluded to by @empea and @snooker-doodle-dandy who makes the point $80,000 grand in the whole scheme of things is going to be only a couple years of wages at worst.

@AJ_Urbanist - I'd love to talk to you more about your decision making process and opinions on such a move. Where are you considering studying?

The 'pros' on my list:
- I have a strong passion for sustainable design, and urban design. Oregon is a Sustainability/Urban Design focused school, and as the demand placed upon sustainable architecture increases, I foresee my investment paying off.
- I agree with your statement of moving, there are far more locations to work as opposed to Australia.
- Higher wages for skilled workers in the US as opposed to Australia + With exchange rate, and cost of living factors America offers comparatively greater wages.
- Fallback. Coming back to an Australian firm - I have life experience. I didn't grow up and study in the one place most of Australian youths, but I have attempted to broaden my horizons. As such, with a degree from such a school as Oregon I can always find work at a local firm in Australia where my degree will be far superior than one from the local University.

Mar 3, 14 6:03 pm  · 
 · 
t a z

As an Australian citizen where is the loan money coming from?  I'm not sure that you can qualify for US government student loans which would mean variable rate private bank loans.  Without a US credit history not sure how easy private loans are for foreigners to get these days...

Mar 3, 14 7:24 pm  · 
 · 
SiameseDream

"As such, with a degree from such a school as Oregon I can always find work at a local firm in Australia where my degree will be far superior than one from the local University."

@The OP , where did you get this idea from ?

Personally, I think it's not a wise decision , financially. Some people I know,  my old tutor at uni included, went after the completion of their professional degrees. Most of them went to ivy schools, Columbia MsAAD, GSD M.Arch II, Yale etc  and then come back to teach/openning the practice or whatever. But, if you want to work in the US, study there would be a sensible option though.

Dont forget to pay back your HECS !
 

Mar 4, 14 8:41 am  · 
 · 
anonla

I am currently in a similar situation - have applied to three US schools and three in my home country for an MLA. My thoughts on applying to US schools are very similar to AJ_Urbanist - I'm ready to move to a new city and for the challenge of meeting new people and putting myself in a different environment.  Here are some other considerations I had when applying: 

-Resources (FABlabs, computer labs, plus additional horticultural resources)  at these schools are just generally more abundant and available for students to use. More students, more money, etc.

- Faculty who specialize in areas that I am interested in learning more about - especially in relation to GIS software and environmental planning aspects.

- Potential to move into academia. While this is not something I'd attempt to do right away (I would still like more experience in professional practice), the idea of working at a University is appealing to me. Having the name of a particular university on your CV does seem to hold some clout in academics (which I think is somewhat ludicrous, but if you want to be competitive...)

But... ultimately, the amount of debt I have to face will play some part in my decision making as well. Best of luck to you!!

Mar 4, 14 10:16 am  · 
 · 
Volunteer

"The thing to keep the ol eyeball on is hanging the shingle on the door" For said hanging in many of the us states you do not need ANY college AT ALL, much less $80,000. It is not only the crippling debt, but you must figure in YEARS of lost compensation while you study the latest ephemeral trend which will be quickly forgotten in the rush to the next one.

Mar 4, 14 11:04 am  · 
 · 
jungo

@SIAMESE DREAM - My school is the University of South Australia which despite being a reasonably strong program within Australia, the academics and program direction fail to compare to that of Oregon's sustainability driven program.

Mar 5, 14 1:05 am  · 
 · 
nileshrparge

I am in the same boat. Finding it difficult to choose between US and Australia.

I wish to work overseas once I am done with my masters, at least till I recover the education cost. So which option is more suitable?

Two of my friends are already going to the US this year, they got an offer from University of Texas and University of Southern California. My brother himself is going to US this year for PG in Construction Management (mostly to Colorado).

If I have to go the US, I will have to give the GRE exam, which takes some time to study for.

Also considering the application deadlines are already over, I can only apply to the US for next year.

For Australia on the other hand, I will have to give IELTS, which is relatively easier than GRE. If I am not wrong, I can start my program in Australia much earlier than US. Secondly, I think the PR is a plus point. Will selecting Australia for the PR be worth it?

I am also looking for a university that may give a scholarship, because my friend will also be applying with me and she needs financial aid. Her aggregate is 65% or a GPA of 2.6 for 5 years.

Any advice would be of great help.

Thanks.

Mar 5, 14 4:52 am  · 
 · 
Nice

@nickweaver1992, could I ask why you are so set on getting a masters immediately? You have a B. arch, what is stopping you from just jumping into the working world? To be honest, a masters will not get you much further than having a B. arch.

Mar 5, 14 6:32 am  · 
 · 
jungo

@Nice I have an Australian 3-year B.Arch which is an non-professional degree. Something which would render me a 'building-designer' at best.

Mar 5, 14 5:45 pm  · 
 · 

@nileshrparge

I am reading this thread as I myself am in a dilemma if I should even take up Masters abroad or do it in India. Since its been 4 months since you posted that question, can you please tell me what decision you have arrived at?

Jul 11, 14 2:26 am  · 
 · 

Block this user


Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?

Archinect


This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.

  • ×Search in: