This is a question for experienced small firm principals.
As some of you know, I'm in process of starting my own small firm.
I find that about 40% of the projects I visit turn into paying projects. I think this is a good rate, however, the time I spend visiting sites and meeting with owners is high.
The scenario is: someone calls, wants me to visit and see the project. It's usually at least 1/2 hour away. I visit, meet with them, photograph the building, do field measurements and then drive back. usually I'm investing 4-5 hours in this process, and then another 1 or 2 in putting together a proposal. I only use the photos and field measurements if it turns into a paying job. I do not include any designs in the proposal.
The ones that do not turn into paying jobs are a big time suck. I'd like to learn to sell better, but I think that the main reason they don't buy is that they are scared off by the cost - either my cost or the cost of construction.
The questions:
1) should I not do field measurements / photos until I have a paying job? I like to do it upfront in order to save another site visit later, but if I'm only getting 40% of the jobs, I'd be time ahead by not doing it on the first visit.
2) How to get rid of the clients who would be scared off by the $$ without getting rid of all of them? I want to have the opportunity to meet them (sell them on me) and get an accurate idea of the project before I give a price. But I could be asking about their budget and see if I think they have a realistic idea of costs.
3) Should I be including a sketch design in the proposal? It would be a lot more time, but might help some of them turn into paying jobs. Of course, to be accurate with this, I need to do the field measurements up front.
4) Same question about feasibility. Many of the sites around here have wetlands / water issues and require special approvals / site plan review to get approval. This process is difficult and expensive. I hate to sell a client on the project then find out that there's no way it'll be built - so I try to do some zoning / site research up front so they are at least aware of it. However, I'm usually investing a few hours in this before I visit the site too.
Stop the up-front work, for the reasons you state. Measure and photograph once you're on the clock.
Not sure there's a good way around this one.
Don't do this. If anything, you could verbally describe some initial thoughts in your proposal letter (easy to jot down, might also help intrigue them w/out much time)
This to me is a potential for a niche service/ expertise, even if no design comes from some of it. (Of course, this requires convincing folks of the reality of entitlements issues in your particular area. Are there local news items about wetlands entitlements / development problems you could point out? Up-front, paid code research on feasibility seems worth pursuing.)
Thanks Citizen. Yes, I do charge for zoning research if I think I can however, I usually find that it's really tough to convince people that it's a real issue, even when they are aware of it. I will do some blog posts on my site about entitlement / development issues, and point potential clients to them.
...I will say though, I think my work at the site visits sometimes does help convert the project into a real job, because the clients see my dedication. I might try an A+B approach, test NOT doing it and see if the projects convert at the same rate. The added time for field measurements + photos is approx 2-3 hours depending on the project.
2 - Fee based on scope of work. Scope based on budget. It's simple math. If they are cheap you don't want 'em. Looking for value, that's my game. Looking for cheap, adios. See #4.
3 - See #1.
4 - By the hour or modest flat fee, possibly credited against the architectural fee if a project is realized.
Most people have a very good idea of costs and their budget. Few will tell you the truth about it. The trick is if they believe you. Some people only believe what they want to hear. Interviews are a 2-way street. You are interviewing potential clients, and they have to meet your criteria in order for you to take them on.
In the case of small renovations, I believe that many potential clients may know their ideal budget (i.e., what they'd like to spend), but little idea of real costs.
Some calls are from folks who are only serious if they hear what they want to hear: an often impossibly low fee. It's not that they don't want to do a project, it's that they have no clue as to what's involved. Rather than do some easy, basic research** they reach out to a professional to spend 3-6 hours for free meeting, looking, talking, and writing up a proposal. All this type of person really needs is a reality check about the process/cost, to decide the house is just fine as it is.
As much of this as can be weeded out/ sensed in the initial contact is helpful (#2). Again, hard to do.
Miles -- given your background, I was surprised to read somewhere on here that you're not licensed. If you don't mind my asking, what type of services do you offer? Believe me, I'm not asking for any reasons other than sheer curiosity -- because I'm always quite interested in non-conventional practice in whatever form.
Design / build. I put together the team neceaasry to execute the specific project: architecture, construction, fabrication, new media, publishing, etc.
1). I don't do the as-built survey work until I've got a signed agreement and retainer.
1A). If the client's program for the remod / addition is vague, I'll often break out the as-built work as a separate fee. I'll then quote specific fees for different scopes of work and let them choose what they'd like. I'll often end up working each of the phases with a client over a long time span (sometimes years)... Like the Johnny Cash song; One Piece At A Time. <g>
2). After getting the short-form program out of the client at the initial meeting, the next question I ask is their budget. If those are incompatible, I say so right on the spot. You'll be able to gauge by their reaction if they're ready for the project. This is where the 60% cull occurs (my batting average is about the same as yours).
3). I like to include a schematic sketch with the proposal... Especially if our first-meeting discussion was very detailed. Always copyright that sketch so they can't steal your concept and pass it on to an amateur to do a 'drafting service' for them. I don't spend a lot of time on that, unless I think it'll pay off. You have to gauge the audience (client) for that. I think offering the sketch has gained me some good jobs, AND... blew me out of jobs that might have been bad ones (that I wouldn't have wanted anyway).
4). I always research the zoning and state code jurisdictions, usually before I meet with the clients for the first time. Here in SoCal, that's pretty easy with GIS systems and all the local AHJ's having their civil codes online. May be harder in your locale. It definitely impresses clients when they see you already have a handle on the zoning / environmental code issues pertinent to their project. I'll spend a couple of hours on that, usually.
5). How do I sell my services? Hmm.. Not sure what you mean, there. I explain the value I offer to the clients (knowledge of codes, construction methods, costs, where to spend, where to save, how I can enhance their living experience). As far as getting the jobs? Heck.. That happens so many ways, I'm not really sure! I just try to do a great job for every client and hope they tell a friend. Treat every client like they're a Medici... You never know where your big break may come from. My clients typically become friends.
Hope that helps you zero in on your personal style going forward. Those are all good questions to ask yourself and the community. This is one of those vocations where it's hard to find pat answers to these sorts of questions, as you well know.
Always remember, too: They may be interviewing YOU... But you should simultaneously be interviewing THEM. To have a satisfying project, you'll want to be getting along well with your clients, and having some unity of purpose with them.
Best wishes on you success. You'll find your best practice style in time.
big time small firm and novedge and business of architecture have youtube vids discussing the solo/small office billing,marketing, scope of services etc. in depth.
All-this is great! And the follow up question: how to price services? I'm usually estimating hours, cross checking w percent of construction and then what I think the client will swallow. But getting even 5% const cost seems like a distant dream right now...
selling arch, not wasting time
This is a question for experienced small firm principals.
As some of you know, I'm in process of starting my own small firm.
I find that about 40% of the projects I visit turn into paying projects. I think this is a good rate, however, the time I spend visiting sites and meeting with owners is high.
The scenario is: someone calls, wants me to visit and see the project. It's usually at least 1/2 hour away. I visit, meet with them, photograph the building, do field measurements and then drive back. usually I'm investing 4-5 hours in this process, and then another 1 or 2 in putting together a proposal. I only use the photos and field measurements if it turns into a paying job. I do not include any designs in the proposal.
The ones that do not turn into paying jobs are a big time suck. I'd like to learn to sell better, but I think that the main reason they don't buy is that they are scared off by the cost - either my cost or the cost of construction.
The questions:
1) should I not do field measurements / photos until I have a paying job? I like to do it upfront in order to save another site visit later, but if I'm only getting 40% of the jobs, I'd be time ahead by not doing it on the first visit.
2) How to get rid of the clients who would be scared off by the $$ without getting rid of all of them? I want to have the opportunity to meet them (sell them on me) and get an accurate idea of the project before I give a price. But I could be asking about their budget and see if I think they have a realistic idea of costs.
3) Should I be including a sketch design in the proposal? It would be a lot more time, but might help some of them turn into paying jobs. Of course, to be accurate with this, I need to do the field measurements up front.
4) Same question about feasibility. Many of the sites around here have wetlands / water issues and require special approvals / site plan review to get approval. This process is difficult and expensive. I hate to sell a client on the project then find out that there's no way it'll be built - so I try to do some zoning / site research up front so they are at least aware of it. However, I'm usually investing a few hours in this before I visit the site too.
4) How do you sell your services?
Off the top, I'd say:
Thanks Citizen. Yes, I do charge for zoning research if I think I can however, I usually find that it's really tough to convince people that it's a real issue, even when they are aware of it. I will do some blog posts on my site about entitlement / development issues, and point potential clients to them.
...I will say though, I think my work at the site visits sometimes does help convert the project into a real job, because the clients see my dedication. I might try an A+B approach, test NOT doing it and see if the projects convert at the same rate. The added time for field measurements + photos is approx 2-3 hours depending on the project.
1 - No work until you have a retainer in hand.
2 - Fee based on scope of work. Scope based on budget. It's simple math. If they are cheap you don't want 'em. Looking for value, that's my game. Looking for cheap, adios. See #4.
3 - See #1.
4 - By the hour or modest flat fee, possibly credited against the architectural fee if a project is realized.
Most people have a very good idea of costs and their budget. Few will tell you the truth about it. The trick is if they believe you. Some people only believe what they want to hear. Interviews are a 2-way street. You are interviewing potential clients, and they have to meet your criteria in order for you to take them on.
In the case of small renovations, I believe that many potential clients may know their ideal budget (i.e., what they'd like to spend), but little idea of real costs.
Some calls are from folks who are only serious if they hear what they want to hear: an often impossibly low fee. It's not that they don't want to do a project, it's that they have no clue as to what's involved. Rather than do some easy, basic research** they reach out to a professional to spend 3-6 hours for free meeting, looking, talking, and writing up a proposal. All this type of person really needs is a reality check about the process/cost, to decide the house is just fine as it is.
As much of this as can be weeded out/ sensed in the initial contact is helpful (#2). Again, hard to do.
**Sound familiar, Archinecters?
Miles -- given your background, I was surprised to read somewhere on here that you're not licensed. If you don't mind my asking, what type of services do you offer? Believe me, I'm not asking for any reasons other than sheer curiosity -- because I'm always quite interested in non-conventional practice in whatever form.
Design / build. I put together the team neceaasry to execute the specific project: architecture, construction, fabrication, new media, publishing, etc.
Gruen,
I feel your pain!
1). I don't do the as-built survey work until I've got a signed agreement and retainer.
1A). If the client's program for the remod / addition is vague, I'll often break out the as-built work as a separate fee. I'll then quote specific fees for different scopes of work and let them choose what they'd like. I'll often end up working each of the phases with a client over a long time span (sometimes years)... Like the Johnny Cash song; One Piece At A Time. <g>
2). After getting the short-form program out of the client at the initial meeting, the next question I ask is their budget. If those are incompatible, I say so right on the spot. You'll be able to gauge by their reaction if they're ready for the project. This is where the 60% cull occurs (my batting average is about the same as yours).
3). I like to include a schematic sketch with the proposal... Especially if our first-meeting discussion was very detailed. Always copyright that sketch so they can't steal your concept and pass it on to an amateur to do a 'drafting service' for them. I don't spend a lot of time on that, unless I think it'll pay off. You have to gauge the audience (client) for that. I think offering the sketch has gained me some good jobs, AND... blew me out of jobs that might have been bad ones (that I wouldn't have wanted anyway).
4). I always research the zoning and state code jurisdictions, usually before I meet with the clients for the first time. Here in SoCal, that's pretty easy with GIS systems and all the local AHJ's having their civil codes online. May be harder in your locale. It definitely impresses clients when they see you already have a handle on the zoning / environmental code issues pertinent to their project. I'll spend a couple of hours on that, usually.
5). How do I sell my services? Hmm.. Not sure what you mean, there. I explain the value I offer to the clients (knowledge of codes, construction methods, costs, where to spend, where to save, how I can enhance their living experience). As far as getting the jobs? Heck.. That happens so many ways, I'm not really sure! I just try to do a great job for every client and hope they tell a friend. Treat every client like they're a Medici... You never know where your big break may come from. My clients typically become friends.
Hope that helps you zero in on your personal style going forward. Those are all good questions to ask yourself and the community. This is one of those vocations where it's hard to find pat answers to these sorts of questions, as you well know.
Always remember, too: They may be interviewing YOU... But you should simultaneously be interviewing THEM. To have a satisfying project, you'll want to be getting along well with your clients, and having some unity of purpose with them.
Best wishes on you success. You'll find your best practice style in time.
big time small firm and novedge and business of architecture have youtube vids discussing the solo/small office billing,marketing, scope of services etc. in depth.
You should check out the Hybrid proposal to Architectural Services course from Entrepreneur Architect. I think it will help you.
I recently wrote a review of this course on my blog.
http://youngarchitect.org/2014/02/03/hybrid-proposal-review/
yes, there is a lot of information on the entrepreneur architect website. mark le page is in many of the conversations i was referring to on my post.
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