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PhD (at ETH Zurich) or work in practice

fenix

Hello everyone,


I finished my Master studies a few months ago and right now I asking myself whether it is better to enroll in some PhD course or to work in practice. My main wish and goal, if I may say it like that, is to work in some architectural firm, but I also think that enrolment in some theoretical research will help me to better understand architectural theory that will further help me to be better in my practice. Is that make sense to you? And beside that when you finish phd you can work as professor, too.

Because all of that I am really unsecure in my further career steps. What is your experience with this question? Is it possible to work in practice as an architect and at the same time to be enrolled in phd studies? Or is it better to first finish a phd and then to find job in practice? I don’t know if is that maybe late, I mean.. who will hire me with 28 years and no experience… Or is it more logical to find a job first and then after a few years to finish a phd, or maybe not finish a phd at all? Ah I dont now.....


Write what are you think, this is interesting dilemma and question isn’t it?

 
Nov 19, 13 10:58 am
Roshi

I don't think pushing yourself for more and more "theory" practice will help you land practical experience. Usually, people who pursue PHDs do so knowing their intent a long while before, and have a specific research purpose in mind. I've never heard anyone getting a PHD solely to land a job at an architecture firm.

If you're having troubles landing a job, I can assure you it is not because you are under-qualified in your education. Any average Master's degree should have given y ou plenty of theory to wrap your mind around, not to mention your undergrad, if it was design-related, would have given you a head start.

Perhaps try looking at other areas that might cause your problem. I'm sure you've heard it all before many times at this point.. try any design, construction, engineer, drafting, industrial jobs. All of those industries are intertwined and work together - if you gain your boss's loyalty, they can almost always lead to an architect's office.

PHDs are usually a long and consuming process. One of my favorite past professors, and a semi-renowned architect, is a current PHD candidate and has been one for the last 7 years. He is also the director of his own firm and the chief editor of his own magazine company. (Iker Gil - http://www.mas-studio.com/people/iker-gil)

Nov 19, 13 11:40 am  · 
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fenix

Yes Roshi it really seems that you are right, but I think, for example, if you research complex relationships and the development of modernism, postmodernism and new modernism and then a variety of conceptual space theories, its development and its various implications (and who knows what else) ... Does all this does not lead to a better understanding of the concept of space and architecture, which will further certainly affect your design?
I don’t think that will phd give me a better job (maybe it will but who knows), no like I said I think that Phd will be good because of me, improvement of my thoughts and thinking. I don’t know do you understand me? Are you a Phd student?
Iker Gil is clearly proved that it is possible to be phd student and to work very successful in practice. It does not matter what he is a phd for seven years, he will soon have a degree and with it he is also great architect. Isn’t it?

Nov 20, 13 4:42 am  · 
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fenix

Does anyone else wants to join in the discussion? :)

Nov 20, 13 4:44 am  · 
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24arches

Firstly, don't fall into the fallacious belief that a degree guarantees a job, in practice or academia. Plenty of Ph.D mints looking for that open position. 

If you lack theory, you might not be able to research and consequently develop your own. Or teach others should the time come. It's one thing to reiterate the work of someone else but as a Ph.D candidate, I expect a faculty would want you to perform and have performed original research As in not simply trying to understand someone else's work but contribute and add to ever-changing discourse. At the postgraduate level, the actual degree bestowed isn't as notable as the things and accomplishments one has done that leads to their recognition in the field. You don't get recognized by rephrasing others in any field. Not to say you are guilty of this but that's the vibe I am reading when it comes to your motivations.

Theory is different than designing for people or even the design process where you work at a problem instead writing verbosely about it. People and environments aren't static nor overwhelming supportive of ideas from academia and unless you take the time to connect to other fields, there is a high risk of shutting out a wider audience and simply catering to those in the ivory tower. It makes sense to practice and lecture/research because then the person doesn't lose touch with reality and fall into the hubris of thinking one is too smart to fail, cheered on by their narrow-minded student peers who don't know better. Iker Gil likely worked before and is not just studying--he's active and part of the industry, education, and running his own studio. His degree isn't a pathway to some career or answer at the end of the tunnel. Or you can take the theoretical approach but what have you done so far? I feel those who prep for a life in academia (or at least to obtain a Ph.D) knew long before they need to amass knowledge and have a firm grasp of ideas, their own first and then others. You certainly can still become great but you need to figure out why you want to be a scholar.

Will theories help improve your design fundamentals? Buy some canonical books and read through them. If you examine someone like Iker or many others, they usually are driven by some restless idea in their head. That idea is what forms their theories, designs, reasoning, and general perspective. Theory at the end of the day is usually conjecture (and we all have something to say) but architecture is one of those fields where ideas can easily turn into physical objects. I suggest you search for your own inner drive before committing to school where you will be expected to pick a path and become an expert on it. 

Also consider doing a degree in another related field instead. One where funding is a bit more plentiful and research in demand. 

Old thread on here:
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/100042/phd-in-architecture

Nov 20, 13 8:07 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Unless the PhD research is technical, I've always seen doctoral studies to be professional suicide. Higher education does not automatically mean higher qualifications and if architectural practice is the goal, real-world experience cannot be taught. Entering a PhD program is delaying reality in my opinion.

besides, if at 28 you start looking for real work, you'll be competing with mid-20 somethings ready to take lower salaries. Think about it, in the time it takes to complete a PhD, you could receive a licence to practice.

Nov 20, 13 8:36 am  · 
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PhD is cool if you want to teach, otherwise it is not particularly useful to practice. I have PhD in urban planning. i did it after several years in practice after finishing m.arch. What it is useful for in my practice is hard to say, except that it opens a few extra doors here and there. For me it was very much worth the effort, but it is not something I would recommend unless you have a real desire to go through with the whole thing. 5 years of your life will be eaten by the effort, if not more.

Nov 20, 13 9:32 am  · 
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citizen

If you're "insecure about future career steps," the last thing to do is enter a PhD program (if you could get accepted to one).  Get some work experience, which will help you decide what you might want to do down the road.

Nov 20, 13 10:56 am  · 
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fenix

Thank you for your answers. At some level you really helped me.

But, I am still really confused because my mentor is convincing me to go with phd, he said that my master thesis and my other papers are great, and also he is very happy with my work in teaching… so he thinks that I will be more useful in theory than in practice..
I really don’t know.. my primary wish is practice but, I would not mind to work as a professor some day ... although it would be ideal if I could do both at the same time.

I am feeling like Hamlet – “To be or not to be” :)

Nov 25, 13 10:54 am  · 
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citizen

Below is something posted on another thread, but relevant here, too.  It applies to the PhD in the US; I don't know about the Swiss PhD.

++

"It's one thing to get a PhD, it's another to do one.  Meaning, that day you successfully defend the dissertation is fantastic.  So is graduation day when you get to wear the red gown and funny hat.  That's the getting part.

"The doing part starts with 2-3 years of course work (after your masters) while you may be working part time; then a semester of prep for qualifying exams, followed up by the week or two of intense, intense writing and anxiety.  Then, there's the defense.  Fun!  If you pass, then you start the dissertation proposal.  Once that's done, it's two or three years of time spent in archives, in the field, interview people, conducting surveys, or whatever research methodology your project demands.  All along, it's write, write, write.  Oh, and then some more writing.  Presentations at academic conferences, comments on your draft chapters from not only your chair, but your other committee members--if you can get them to respond in a timely way.  Finally, you've got a complete draft, and after begging your committee to read it all, you schedule a defense for that.  If all goes well, you end up with the joy described at the outset of this post.

"It's really a great experience... but a big chunk of one's life."

Nov 25, 13 1:51 pm  · 
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fenix

Ok, I hear what you are saying. It isn’t possible to do both at the same time – phd and work in practice.
I know that phd is really serious thing, but still…
Basically you are telling me to choose one or another path, and in some previous post, you are also saying that, if I am not 100% sure  I want phd, it is better to go for practice.

Maybe you are right, I don’t know.. I hear this days many different opinions, so.. I will think about it but I am still in "To be or not to be" mood. crossroad of life :)

Nov 25, 13 4:46 pm  · 
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My business partner and I started a design office while I was doing PhD.  So no its not impossible. It was not easy though. Very hard in fact.  The above post about commitment is pretty true, and writing becomes a massive time eater.

Practice gives a very good perspective on research.  So much so that my own PhD advisor refused PhD applicants who had not worked for at least 2 years in an office. I am of mixed minds of the need for that filter, but agree it tends to make for better research. If you can work and come back to do PhD that may be a good thing to consider.

Staying out of practice altogether for the next few years is difficult if you want to design for real at some point.  It takes a big effort to get into it for real later on in life, mostly because the experience is entirely different. Contractors and money and lawsuits are not part of the PhD lifestyle but are the core of the real world of a practicing architect. Design you can always do, but learning how to build is a bit different...

If you really want it all and want it now then best bet is to find a PT job in an office while spending most of your time on research.  If you are careful about it you may find a way to blend both career paths so they support each other rather than work in isolation. Sleep deprivation may be one part of the process, but if you are smart you can minimize it..

good luck.

Nov 25, 13 7:19 pm  · 
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Well,

I am a bit late in this discussion and the guy who started this thread must have chosen his path also. 

Actually I am also in the same phase going through. All above replies helped me a lot . 

May 31, 14 6:21 am  · 
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