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Rhino + Rhino = Bad Education?

Sep 11 '13 24 Last Comment
VON LEE
Sep 11, 13 2:09 am

Hey guys, 

I've recently begun my MArch (3 year) and so far so good... Until today. when I learned that my program doesn't teach Revit, Autocad or even GIS...Just Rhino...

I feel like I've been bait and switched a bit. Was I wrong to assume that all or even most architecture programs would teach students the most commonly used and in demand software?

It is crazy to consider 'taking my talents' elsewhere?

 

Veuxx
Sep 11, 13 2:12 am

Rhino is great and widely used. Use rhino to design and do your drawings in revit

Schools don't teach software just theory. You use the projects they assign as a vehicle to learn your software you choose

accesskb
Sep 11, 13 6:09 am

I'd run from that school regardless of what software they teach.. You learn softwares during your first undergrad semester IF the schools don't already expect you to learn them on your own.. Not during your masters.

Quentin
Sep 11, 13 11:09 am

Only class that was offered while I was in college was Revit which I took. Everything else was learn on your own, which is kind of aggrevating.

tiorted
Sep 11, 13 12:00 pm

What school? 

LITS4FormZ
Sep 11, 13 12:41 pm

Wasting valuable credits, especially in grad school, on button pushing classes is ridiculous. Software should be learned through experimentation and if you have any questions someone has asked and documented the same question online. 

natematt
Sep 11, 13 2:36 pm

It's unclear if this person is being taught rhino in a class or if it is being emphisized by the program. They already stated it is a 3 year program, so it is quite likely a masters program for non-arch undergrads, which only makes sense that they would at least try to help students understand the basics of at least one cad program.


Anyway...
Rhino is basically autocad with slightly better 3d capabilities, more plug ins, and slightly worse drafting abilities. If you can learn one you should be able to transition to the other without too much trouble.

Revit is a different animal all together but not really that difficult to learn basics. In my experience the problem with emphasizing Revit in school is that it is cumbersome. It is meant to produce CDs after all... and it is not just that it begs you to produce that level of detail, it is that it draws people into the trap of 3d modeling every inch of a building. This is even more problematic when you start trying to model complicated forms and customize families bla bla bla. And all that makes people resistant to the changes demanded of them in the school environment.

 

Veuxx
Sep 11, 13 2:55 pm

To summarize it sounds like we all agree university is for a higher level theoretical thinking not to be wasted on mundane software classes.

You can easily learn these software from your peers and on your own time

VON LEE
Sep 11, 13 8:57 pm

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to hear everyone's thoughts on learning software in the classroom. I guess its as simple as software is constantly changing and no single program is universally accepted everywhere. Given that, the focus of the education should be based on theory and learning how to design, not producing construction drawings.

To answer some your questions, the program doesn't have us in a rhino class. Rather, our instructors give us assignments and say build this in rhino. So we are mostly self-taught.

After some students voiced concerns over not learning the fundamentals of CAD and Revit, a few staff have offered to lead workshops over the weekends. 

The school is the Woodbury School of Architecture in San Diego. The program is the 3 year MArch, which for me, feeds into the MRED. 

The staff and the facilities are excellent. 

accesskb
Sep 11, 13 11:27 pm

^ that ain't too bad..  a prof requesting an assignment to be done on Rhino.  I've heard of schools that make you purchase legit copies of FormZ and teach that in class.. Don't have a freakin clue why a school would even do that.  Program directors must be pretty out of loop

boy in a well
Sep 12, 13 5:03 am

this is probably one of the first threads where uni beats tech schools, ideologically. good for you archinect.

Veuxx
Sep 12, 13 10:36 am

Woodbury is a great uni!

jmanganelli
Sep 12, 13 2:39 pm

when i started architecture school, they told us they would not teach us software.  it was up to us to learn to keep up with technology.  i think this is standard, as most people note above.

look into the history of rhino.  you'll find out why/how its fundamentals for 2D work are very similar to autocad's, because mcneel started out as an autocad reseller and then ... look it up, easy to find online

a good reason to 'love rhino' at your stage is that your student license counts as a professional license...so for $200, you have a very powerful, professional tool for any CAD/drafting side work you can pick up.  Tough value to beat really.

sameolddoctor
Sep 12, 13 3:29 pm

"slightly better 3d capabilities" What the fuck are you talking about?

natematt
Sep 12, 13 4:51 pm

My experience using both makes me question why people are so bent out of shape over Rhino being better than autocad at 3D. For the student who's project is not largely scripted and does not look like a piece of used chewing gum the difference in them is is not that great. With every new version they become more and more alike...

I'm really not promoting Autocad as a better 3d tool. I prefer to use what i think is best for every task, so I tend to do 3d in rhino, 2d in autocad, and rendering in 3ds max. However,  I feel like rhino is often set on a pedestal as this penultimate 3d tool... which is silly.

Peter NormandPeter Normand
Sep 12, 13 5:23 pm

Veuxx, I disagree with the notion that software training has no place in architecture school, a masters in painting will teach you how to use and even make your own brushes and other tools to create your work. I think there should be room in a Master of Architecture program to cover the tools so that you use the tool not the tool using you. If this were a Masters in Architectural theory or a PHD  on the same subject then software may not be relevant.


Architecture is an applied art to practice you need both theory and vocational skills.


Von Lee, I would take the time to learn the software if you can take a summer course at a community vocational collage you could end up with a Revit or Cad Certificate which can help when seeking your first job. Few Employers want to spend money on you teaching you software. And the more tools you have the more efficiently you can execute your design work and focus more energy and time on the theory instead of getting unfamiliar software to depict your design intent.

Over and OUT

Peter N

strangefires
Sep 12, 13 11:40 pm

I just started a 3 year M.arch and our class is currently being taught how to use Rhino by being given assignments, that are to be done in Rhino.  The class isn't a software class but these first few classes are emphasizing Rhino, as they have noted that its a good in between software platform that would allow a user to easily move into CAD or other programs for different purposes afterwards.

jmanganelli
Sep 13, 13 12:43 am

A significant portion of the value of knowing Autodesk CAD/BIM products is not based upon them being superior --- often they are not.  Rather, a significant portion of the value of knowing Autodesk CAD/BIM products is based upon the network effect.  So I understand OP's concern. 

However, FWIW, look at this thread and scroll down to djnelson75's comments and drawings.  Rhino is a legitimate commercial production CAD tool. 

Maestro
Sep 13, 13 9:02 pm

Ask them when they will teach you Partii, or Composition, or maybe, Scale.....I don't know what is more frustrating, that the schools are pushing a particular trade school curriculum on software usage at the expense of time designing and thinking, or that the students have been programmed to think that architecture school is about getting proficient in software.  No office wants to hire the best Rhino student or Revit master.  They want the best Architect.

boy in a well
Sep 13, 13 9:06 pm

or the best rhino student or revit master.

will gallowaywill galloway
Sep 13, 13 10:03 pm

rhino takes a couple days to learn. autocad about the same. neither is particularly complicated unless you are going to do some crazy grasshopper stuff, in which case the internet is awesome.

we never had any cad classes in school either.  it hasn't mattered in the long run.

in our office when we are hiring or looking for interns we might look at rendering skills, and talent with communication (in all its meanings) is definitely on the list,  Mostly we are looking for evidence of creativity - right now its what we need the most. Cad is a bonus but not something we worry about. Other offices probably look for different things, but we are not outliers as far as I can tell.

I would be grateful if universities taught students the basics of a what construction set is all about, but that's just my thing.

Stewie_2011
Sep 14, 13 8:36 am

OP, the Prof is right, Rhino is the best program to use, 2D, 3D and for its built in renderer all for 200 quid as a student that you can use forever more unlike autodesk stuff that ends as soon as your course ends. You can extrude the 2D lines you do for floor plans to create a 3D model, plus it takes up way less space on the hard drive than Autocad so quicker boot up times, so less wasted time sitting around on load up. Autocad better at 3D than it used to be but Rhino still better, Autocad still has poor user interface, they really need to get that sorted out, Rhino user interface much better. Will still take you a few weeks to s few months to really get to know your way around if you have not done a lot of CAD before. Revit can easily look likee something Noddy stuck together unless you get real good at it. Unfortunately, while many employers use Rhino, far more tend to use Autocad which is a real shame as Rhino is much better, even in practice.

Garry ThomasGarry Thomas
Sep 14, 13 8:59 am

Rhino is it a slave or a master?

boy in a well
Sep 14, 13 9:15 am

Microsoft word: is it a slave or a master?

Excel: is it a slave of a master?

adobe illustrator: is it a slave or a master?

shoes on feet: is it a slaves or a masters?

wearing clothes to the office: is it a slave or a master?

calling wednesday humpday: is it a slave or a master?

yadda yadda

capitalism: is it a slave or a master?

new urbanism: slave or masturbation?

OMA's Bank: cuddly code name or illuminati hideout?

Walter Pichler: yes, well, yes. Walter Pichler!

Hollis Frampton! Goddamn Yes Hollis Frampton!! Zorn's Goddamn Lemmata!

et cetera et cetera Carl Solomon i'm with you in rockland where your condition has become serious et cetera et cetera.

well...off for a walk I guess.

VON LEE
Sep 15, 13 3:11 pm

This thread got weird. 

I think archinect has become a hangout for the 16-21, male, age group. 

any other good design community blogs out there? 

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