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PARTICIPATE! (What does Europe look like?)


map via clothes

May 10, 08 9:19 am  · 
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won and done williams

can anyone here challenge that for europe's economic strength, it is a pretty sorry world leader? why? did wwii scare the crap out of europe and it became content to isolate itself? did the cold war make europe think that the u.s. and soviets can carry the load? right now, china stands in a better position than europe to shape global policy. quite frankly europe is a lovely place to visit, but a piss poor participant in an increasingly globalized world.

May 10, 08 10:15 am  · 
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randomized

Well, I think the cold war and other armed conflicts have made Europe realize that you can not solve everything with violence. If your definition of a world leader is: whoever has the biggest bombs, that's pretty narrowminded. And the state of the world today is a clear example of how not to be a world leader. I think Europe is at least trying to solve issues without flexing their muscles (if they have any) but tries to use ratio. On the short term that might seem like a piss poor participant in a globalized world. But violence only leads to more violence. Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan etcetera

May 10, 08 11:18 am  · 
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won and done williams

i don't entirely disagree, ivo, but at the same time, how has europe engaged the conflicts in israel, iraq, iran, and afghanistan? i'm certainly not advocating for aggression, but something needs to be done, and i don't see europe being very proactive in trying to find resolution to these conflicts; so instead the extremists are the ones who are largely in control.

i want europe to get more involved. i think europe diplomatically and intellectually has a lot to offer. it's out in front on most environmental issues, probably the most important issue facing the world this century, but for all of europe's intelligence and progressive policy it seems to only want to look inward and fragment itself when it is primed for a much stronger leadership role. i just don't see the eu stepping up.

May 10, 08 1:54 pm  · 
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more map

without turkey europe has no pants, historically troubled waters indeed...

May 10, 08 1:54 pm  · 
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SavedByTech

Medit - what's the big issue here: You vehemently oppose Turkish EU membership? Because of their current government or what? Could you be very specific please.
So a European Union with Turkish membership would no longer be a European Union?

[i]gt;they should also learn how to "sell" their image better because stereotypes travel faster than realities and the main stereotype of Turkey is, still nowadays, a bunch of people wearing turbans and goin' to a mosque..[i]

May 10, 08 5:43 pm  · 
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SavedByTech

Oh bloody useless Archinectoid posting lingo

May 10, 08 5:43 pm  · 
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SavedByTech

Medit quote:

they should also learn how to "sell" their image better because stereotypes travel faster than realities and the main stereotype of Turkey is, still nowadays, a bunch of people wearing turbans and goin' to a mosque..

Where are you getting this crap from? There are 2nd and 3rd generation Turks allover Europe...Invited to come and do the shitty work in the 70s when things were hunky-dory...then left to run corner shops and Pizzerias.

I'm guessing perhaps Spain and your beloved Catalonia perhaps got more a share of North Africans...I have no idea...But what is this rubbish you're coming up with. I'm sure you'd find you're probably half-Moorish yourself and by way of history then Persian and so on and so forth.
Can we not ever stop this selective, pinhole interpretation of our histories and identities...

i don't give a flying fuck about "my cultural identity" or euro or no euro, or "my flag" or whatnot. At the end of the day, everybody just wants a bit more money. The EU promises you that...And coming from a part of the EU that has so spectacularly benefitted from it's coffers you should be a bit more willing to hand on the purse.

End of rant.

May 10, 08 5:53 pm  · 
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SavedByTech

And you do not speak the on behalf of "the people on the street". That statement in itself betrays your true sentiments...even if you yourself are bind to them..

May 10, 08 5:56 pm  · 
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SavedByTech


Bosnian Girl, 2003
Public project: posters, billboards, magazine ads, postcards
Black-and-white photograph, dimensions variable
Photography by Tarik Samarah

Graffiti written by an unknown Dutch soldier on a wall of the army barracks
in Potocari, Srebrenica, 1994/95. Royal Netherlands Army troops, as part of
the UN Protection Force (UNPROFOR) in Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992 95, were
responsible for protecting the Srebrenica safe area.

Taken from here

May 10, 08 5:59 pm  · 
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SavedByTech

Medit - I'm sorry, I went too far above. I'm tired...But clearly your choice of rhetoric really disgusted me.

May 10, 08 6:02 pm  · 
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snook_dude

Where the heck is Per....when you need a clear voice?

May 10, 08 8:37 pm  · 
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Medit

geez.. it's ok,
I said above that I'd welcome Turkey with open arms as a member of the EU.. just that a right-wing government who uses religion as a social magnet -if I understood Orhan's explanation above- is AN IDEA (just an idea) that does not appeal to me.. that's all..

yes I think I can talk about 'people in the streets'.. that is, people in 'my' street, in 'my' town, in 'my' province and in 'my' country, which are the society and realities I do really know about...
and as I said, I was talking only about stereotypes coming from abroad, just that... Catalonia, Spain, Portugal, we are just at the other end of the continent from where you are (I assume you're from Turkey), so probably what we know about Turkish people is as much as you may know about us, that is: nothing.. And when people do know little or just nothing about unknown facts (or unknown cultures) they rely on stereotypes (not everyone is an architect or has university careers, you know?... some people -yes, people 'in the streets'- believe everything they hear)

and I also say 'nothing' because for me (and for us) identity and cultural survival (including our own language) is a matter of extreme importance... see, Catalonia has 7 million, we are a small country between Spain (with the third most spoken language in planet Earth) and France (a centralist country if there is one)... believe me, that in 2008 we still keep our own cultural identity is almost a miracle and I'll be as much vehement as I can to defend that.. I guess Turkey may have other problems but not this one, you already have a political state of your own, Catalans we don't have it.... and believe it or not I don't give a shit about money, I'm more worried about other things (like culture and language... which is like saying: about cultural identity)

and no turks here.. remember I'm in the Iberian peninsula.. we had a dictatorship from 1939 -end of the Civil War- until 1975... in fact, we haven't got massive immigration until 1999-2000.. and as far as I know the majority of immigrants here are either from Africa, Pakistan, and South-America (and lately lots, lots of Chinese... who, mysteries of life, are more keen to learn catalan than the rest of immigrants from other countries)... but very few turks so far.

and that's a beautiful Bosnian girl... did you know that Barcelona and Sarajevo are twinned since year 2000?... we know what is to be bombed to death.. the germans used us, back in the 1930s, as a 'laboratory' for their new airplanes before using them for WWII.. we have had a success story in reconstructing Barcelona, so we shared that with people in Sarajevo:
http://w3.bcn.es/XMLServeis/XMLHomeLinkPl/0,4022,229724149_258648560_3,00.html

May 10, 08 8:37 pm  · 
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barcelona

is a sister city of istanbul

May 10, 08 11:22 pm  · 
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May 12, 08 3:48 pm  · 
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*your name

Is Markus Miessen another Rem's bitch?

May 13, 08 1:06 am  · 
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Heather Ring

It's that Eurovision time of year ...

Last year's:

Ukraine
France
Romania
Sweden
Spain
United Kingdom
Turkey

May 13, 08 12:12 pm  · 
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i thought last years turkey really sucked...

but this year it is my favorite so far. at least they are singing in their native language. these guys are a great band and i think turkish goes very well with rock 'n roll.

ahh.. eurovision. abba........

May 13, 08 1:25 pm  · 
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brian buchalski

for what it's worth, e u is taking the lead on chemicals regulation. REACH should be a nice step forward form the us's antiquated TSCA of 1976 that only targeted new chemicals in products rather than existing chemicals

May 13, 08 2:57 pm  · 
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rira

wow ... i'm so surprised at the depth of dissatisfaction with the EU

For what it's worth, I heart the EU. It's crazy to me that a country that has basically been exporting educated english speakers since the 1840's is suddenly this place that people immigrate to. And it's all because of the EU. I really don't think of it as this monstrous bureacratic beast because to me it has made a real difference tot he streets that i walk down, the schools i go to, the friends i have, the places i see. That's probably something very difficult to quantify to an outsider.

Now if I was listening to the brief and if I wasn't lazy and if I hadn't just sent my scanner home for the summer I would post a photo of my passport which is so worn from free cross border travel that there are no longer any markings on the cover.

May 14, 08 9:10 pm  · 
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May 19, 08 11:36 am  · 
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Highly qualified professionals of Turkish descent are leaving Germany because they feel denied opportunities there.

Part 1: Young, Qualified and Unwanted
Part 2: Tired of Hearing 'Go Back to Where You Come From'


DER SPIEGEL
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Sep 2, 09 4:08 am  · 
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