your'e looking for a cantilever detail, basically. that's not going to be a standard framing condition. will take some engineering thinking beyond normal framing rules. you don't have an engineer?
the header(s) might have to be pretty hefty, though, depending how much wall/ceiling/roof above it you're supporting. you don't want the corner to sag. and the ends of the headers over each 1/2 of the window will have to be tied together in a rigid way.
do you still want a support column in the corner or two structural beam headers canted and the windows are a storefront system or a special field mull?
the column in the corner is typical for standard windows with a nail fin & the column can be either wood or steel...
USE (2) MICROLAM HEADERS WITH A STEEL CORNER PLATE AT THE CORNER AND CANTILEEVER AS JAFILDER SAYS TO DO, THEN USE SOME TIES TO AT THE END OF THE CANTILIEEVER AND TIE IT TO THE STUD WALL
with stick construction, it's really not a good place for a window because all of the weight from above the corner will have to be absorbed by the header and transfered to the support on either side of the window. that could be a substantial amount of weight. you'd have to design the header almost like a beam. corner windows (unless very small) are more suitable for frame construction.
MAKE A CORNER UNIT AS A SINGLE STRUCTURAL DIAPHRAM, THIS WOULD REQUIRE REAL ENGINEERING AS WELL, BUT BASICALLY MAKE A CORNER OF 3/4" PLYWOOD ON BOTH INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR AND NOT ONLY NAIL EVERY 4"-6" THE PLYWOOD TO THE FRAMING BUT ALSO GLUE IT, THE FRAMING COULD BE DIAGANAL LIKE A BRIDGE
(AT ALFREDO DE VIDO'S WE ACTUALLY DID THAT FOR A 30' BRIDGE FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE LIVING ROOM, BIG HOUSE)
Steven, no window around the corner and no FLW either.
I have a 36" staircase with an exterior wall on the one and an interior wall on the other side. To get in some light (and make my facade work) I wanted to make the window as wide as possible. I was hoping there was a simple way of spanning the window across the full 36".
This is affordable housing, so it would have to be a simple solution. (Third and top floor.)
I dare not say what window...
it's Milgard, white vinyl.
Typically I have been staying about 3" clear of corners with all windows and doors to accommodate for double studs. I was hoping you could push these into the corners so that the window (incl. frame) is 36" wide.
metamechanic - is your CAPS still on from noting plans?
You mean like these? This is a very risky detail and not suitable for wet climates. Really, it's not that hard, but an engineer will have to size not only the cantilevering headers (allow 2/3 backspan), but also the hanger/Simpson tie where they meet at the corner depending on the size of the opening:
You may be able to get away with (2) 2x8s for the header (small corner window) but might have to have a PSL, LSL, or even a glulam for larger cantilevered openings.
Another thing to be careful of is the window - most manufacturers won't make this window or will make it but won't warranty it. You & your client have to measure the risk and put some faith in the glazer, window installer/manuf. and the sealant at the glass on glass corner. Good luck.
YES I FAILED TO TURN IT OFF....I'M NOT ANGRY
HAVEN'T LOOKED THE MILGARD VINYL UP, BUT IF IT HAS A VINYL FLANGE ALL THE WAY AROUND YOU COULD THINK OF IT AS PUNCHING A HOLE IN WD FRAMED WOOD AND BOOM, YOU'RE DONE, BUT I'LL LOOK REAL QUICL.
IF IT IS ONLY FASTENED VIA THE VINYL FLANGE THAT I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH DOING IT EXACTLY 36" WIDE, YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO CONSIDER HOW YOU'RE ENDING THE GWB ON THE INSIDE AND PROBABLY HOW YOU ARE DETAILING THE CORNER SIDING
Just for my understanding: how would you place the studs at the T-intersection of the two walls? In our standard detail the stud prevents you from placing the window right into the corner.
to span the 36" you dont need a jamb stud, you already have a meaty corner post assembly. your sill will butt into that and you'll jack stud to the plate. Just shim tight. Im still confused about the corner - you want the glass to for a right angle or (2) window units to form a right angle? Does milgard even make a corner window?
As for the header - it depends a lot on the roof but really a plywood sheathed diaphram whith tension straps or if it goes to clg hgt just canteliever some joist out and be done.
it seems like this may not be the best solution for an affordable project especially with vinyl windows. you are still going have to trim the vertical out, and will not have any control about how each window is placed in the field. it's gonna be tough to get any kind of clean interior finish to look seamless, and the exterior resolution of how the siding and/or trim will be awkard at best.
The question is: where does the nail-fin of the window assembly attach to. How about the window flashing? You got an inside corner there.
I understand your pain; this condition is no big deal in masonry type construction but in wood frame construction? To come up with a detail that does not leave some 2" wide stucco or drywall on the side of the window is a real challenge. What dml is showing is very nice but custom and when you look at the left side of the window, 1st photo, you will notice that left-over strip of drywall that spoils the fun. I bet you in plan this glass was going right against the wall.
tsquared vixen
Can you share the detail of that vertical window over the patio door? Wood frame construction? How did you flash that window frame? You got all the conditions mleitner is looking for right there.
I noticed that about dml's image too. The two glass panes meeting distract from it a bit. I guess posting the window corner showing two windows was misleading. It is just one window in my situation.
The horizontal window in tsquared's photo seems to be exactly the condition I am trying to achieve - just using vinyl windows in wood framing. As emaze said, the tolerances will probably ruin the look.
Thanks for the input though - I will definitely save this thread for future reference.
It really isn't that complicated. It needs two cantelievering headers meeting at the corner. It can be doe in wood but probably easier to done in steel
i've never done it so i'm just throwing ideas around. can you use a vinyl retrofit window that are finless and can be screwed through the frame and into the jamb, sill, and head?
in the wall that extends past the window, i'll call it wall A, the one at the bottom in your drawing, can you:
-nail a 1x on 2-2x4 blocking/jamb. (the 1x becomes a spacer so that the 7/8" plaster ends and overlaps the window frame by about 1/8") i'm also assuming that the exterior is plaster
-wrap flashing over the 1x and out, covering the 1x and portion of wall A. flash the head, sill and the other jamb per standard practice.
-install the window by nailing through the frame. the window installer should know where to put all neccessary sealants.
-install lath and plaster ground against the window frame. the plaster ground will be the barrier between the plaster and the window frame. you will have to add a nailer in Wall A for the plaster ground to nail onto.
inside, i'm assuming it will be 5/8" drywall, the drywall will end at the 1x. and since the 1x is thicker than the drywall, there will be a reveal. i don't know the best solution. i just wanted to point out the difference in dimensions and the 1x will be exposed inside, unlike the overlap that is happening with the plaster and the frame.
Wood Framing Detail
I am looking for a wood framing detail in which a window sits right in the corner of two walls.
Does anyone have one on hand?
need more info... can you find a picture on the internets of something similar?
Imagine this situation with only one window.
On the interior, the window frame would start right in the 90º corner of the two connecting walls.
your'e looking for a cantilever detail, basically. that's not going to be a standard framing condition. will take some engineering thinking beyond normal framing rules. you don't have an engineer?
just use 2 wd studs at the head and sill and at the corners cross the top plate of one over the other stud, just like framing a typical corner wall...
how structural does the header need to be though?
just use 2 wd studs at the head and sill and at the corners cross the top plate of one over the other stud, just like framing a typical corner wall...
how structural does the header need to be though?
just make one up.
i'd probably use a post (or triple stud) on either side of the window and cantilever the header.
does simpson-ties have any magical connections for a condition like that?
the header(s) might have to be pretty hefty, though, depending how much wall/ceiling/roof above it you're supporting. you don't want the corner to sag. and the ends of the headers over each 1/2 of the window will have to be tied together in a rigid way.
do you still want a support column in the corner or two structural beam headers canted and the windows are a storefront system or a special field mull?
the column in the corner is typical for standard windows with a nail fin & the column can be either wood or steel...
pretty much what jafid mentioned
i think he wants no column.
you can always fabricate a metal break around the column and make the units look like one windowor trim it in the same mat'l
are you trying to get to this...
...but in wood framing?
USE (2) MICROLAM HEADERS WITH A STEEL CORNER PLATE AT THE CORNER AND CANTILEEVER AS JAFILDER SAYS TO DO, THEN USE SOME TIES TO AT THE END OF THE CANTILIEEVER AND TIE IT TO THE STUD WALL
A FLITCH BEAM OF SORTS
did you take into account how ugly thats gonna look?
with stick construction, it's really not a good place for a window because all of the weight from above the corner will have to be absorbed by the header and transfered to the support on either side of the window. that could be a substantial amount of weight. you'd have to design the header almost like a beam. corner windows (unless very small) are more suitable for frame construction.
thank you mr. know it all.
JUST GET ALL CALATRAVESQUE AND MAKE A GIANT STEEL POST 50' HIGH OUTSIDE AND TIE A CABLE AT THE CORNER TO THE POST, THAT COULD LOOK COOL.
vado, i deserved that.
ONE LAST SERIOUS SUGGESTION
MAKE A CORNER UNIT AS A SINGLE STRUCTURAL DIAPHRAM, THIS WOULD REQUIRE REAL ENGINEERING AS WELL, BUT BASICALLY MAKE A CORNER OF 3/4" PLYWOOD ON BOTH INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR AND NOT ONLY NAIL EVERY 4"-6" THE PLYWOOD TO THE FRAMING BUT ALSO GLUE IT, THE FRAMING COULD BE DIAGANAL LIKE A BRIDGE
(AT ALFREDO DE VIDO'S WE ACTUALLY DID THAT FOR A 30' BRIDGE FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE LIVING ROOM, BIG HOUSE)
Steven, no window around the corner and no FLW either.
I have a 36" staircase with an exterior wall on the one and an interior wall on the other side. To get in some light (and make my facade work) I wanted to make the window as wide as possible. I was hoping there was a simple way of spanning the window across the full 36".
This is affordable housing, so it would have to be a simple solution. (Third and top floor.)
WHAT KIND OF WINDOWS?
oh. yeah, just typical header framing in't?
this is how mdler rolls...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2120/2110606675_0591562190.jpg?v=0
can you draw us how you want it to look in plan? i still dont follow
Do you want the frame recessed so that the glass is the full 36" width or can you just install the window frame between the 2 walls?
Both can be done but the 2nd option is easy/standard stuff.
whats your occupancy is that a single family?
I dare not say what window...
it's Milgard, white vinyl.
Typically I have been staying about 3" clear of corners with all windows and doors to accommodate for double studs. I was hoping you could push these into the corners so that the window (incl. frame) is 36" wide.
metamechanic - is your CAPS still on from noting plans?
You mean like these? This is a very risky detail and not suitable for wet climates. Really, it's not that hard, but an engineer will have to size not only the cantilevering headers (allow 2/3 backspan), but also the hanger/Simpson tie where they meet at the corner depending on the size of the opening:
You may be able to get away with (2) 2x8s for the header (small corner window) but might have to have a PSL, LSL, or even a glulam for larger cantilevered openings.
Another thing to be careful of is the window - most manufacturers won't make this window or will make it but won't warranty it. You & your client have to measure the risk and put some faith in the glazer, window installer/manuf. and the sealant at the glass on glass corner. Good luck.
nice detail, dml.
YES I FAILED TO TURN IT OFF....I'M NOT ANGRY
HAVEN'T LOOKED THE MILGARD VINYL UP, BUT IF IT HAS A VINYL FLANGE ALL THE WAY AROUND YOU COULD THINK OF IT AS PUNCHING A HOLE IN WD FRAMED WOOD AND BOOM, YOU'RE DONE, BUT I'LL LOOK REAL QUICL.
IF IT IS ONLY FASTENED VIA THE VINYL FLANGE THAT I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH DOING IT EXACTLY 36" WIDE, YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO CONSIDER HOW YOU'RE ENDING THE GWB ON THE INSIDE AND PROBABLY HOW YOU ARE DETAILING THE CORNER SIDING
BY THE WAY WHAT KIND OF SIDING?
DML THAT IS HOT!
It's just plain vinyl windows. No siding.
Just for my understanding: how would you place the studs at the T-intersection of the two walls? In our standard detail the stud prevents you from placing the window right into the corner.
on my pda phone but could you post your standad detail
Hadn't realized we didn't have a plan detail.
Here is a quick sketch of how we would typically do it:
PLAN VIEW
to span the 36" you dont need a jamb stud, you already have a meaty corner post assembly. your sill will butt into that and you'll jack stud to the plate. Just shim tight. Im still confused about the corner - you want the glass to for a right angle or (2) window units to form a right angle? Does milgard even make a corner window?
As for the header - it depends a lot on the roof but really a plywood sheathed diaphram whith tension straps or if it goes to clg hgt just canteliever some joist out and be done.
are you trying to do something like this detail? where the patio door is? like you're trying to make an 'invisible jamb'?
it seems like this may not be the best solution for an affordable project especially with vinyl windows. you are still going have to trim the vertical out, and will not have any control about how each window is placed in the field. it's gonna be tough to get any kind of clean interior finish to look seamless, and the exterior resolution of how the siding and/or trim will be awkard at best.
The question is: where does the nail-fin of the window assembly attach to. How about the window flashing? You got an inside corner there.
I understand your pain; this condition is no big deal in masonry type construction but in wood frame construction? To come up with a detail that does not leave some 2" wide stucco or drywall on the side of the window is a real challenge. What dml is showing is very nice but custom and when you look at the left side of the window, 1st photo, you will notice that left-over strip of drywall that spoils the fun. I bet you in plan this glass was going right against the wall.
tsquared vixen
Can you share the detail of that vertical window over the patio door? Wood frame construction? How did you flash that window frame? You got all the conditions mleitner is looking for right there.
Pluk, emaze, yes! That's my problem.
I noticed that about dml's image too. The two glass panes meeting distract from it a bit. I guess posting the window corner showing two windows was misleading. It is just one window in my situation.
The horizontal window in tsquared's photo seems to be exactly the condition I am trying to achieve - just using vinyl windows in wood framing. As emaze said, the tolerances will probably ruin the look.
Thanks for the input though - I will definitely save this thread for future reference.
It appaers in tsq pic theres still a 3/4 jamb - painted black it looks flatter
It really isn't that complicated. It needs two cantelievering headers meeting at the corner. It can be doe in wood but probably easier to done in steel
could you frame the jack stud to support the header within the bottom plate of the exterior wall?
sorry for late response
given your plan detail and the milgard vinly it can not be done
I thought you had a real outside corner
meta, thanks for your help.
i've never done it so i'm just throwing ideas around. can you use a vinyl retrofit window that are finless and can be screwed through the frame and into the jamb, sill, and head?
in the wall that extends past the window, i'll call it wall A, the one at the bottom in your drawing, can you:
-nail a 1x on 2-2x4 blocking/jamb. (the 1x becomes a spacer so that the 7/8" plaster ends and overlaps the window frame by about 1/8")
i'm also assuming that the exterior is plaster
-wrap flashing over the 1x and out, covering the 1x and portion of wall A. flash the head, sill and the other jamb per standard practice.
-install the window by nailing through the frame. the window installer should know where to put all neccessary sealants.
-install lath and plaster ground against the window frame. the plaster ground will be the barrier between the plaster and the window frame. you will have to add a nailer in Wall A for the plaster ground to nail onto.
inside, i'm assuming it will be 5/8" drywall, the drywall will end at the 1x. and since the 1x is thicker than the drywall, there will be a reveal. i don't know the best solution. i just wanted to point out the difference in dimensions and the 1x will be exposed inside, unlike the overlap that is happening with the plaster and the frame.
?
again, i'm just tossing ideas around.